RazorbackTX
Oct 21 2005, 06:23 AM
QUOTE
gmginsfo:
Thank God she's not Diet Pepsi!
He's such a legal lightweight, it's scary!
HotlantaTarheel
Oct 27 2005, 05:58 AM
Apparently, Harriet Miers is withdrawing her own nomination. Riiiiight.
hockeyTom
Oct 27 2005, 06:22 AM
Yep she is indeed with drawing herself. I just read the headline on msnbc.com. Shrub is blaming this on Senators who requested papers on her that Shrub said he would not release. Wow. Lets see who he nominates now! Should be interesting to say the least!
Munson Man
Oct 27 2005, 06:26 AM
She has officially withdrawn. Poor thing.....
Miers withdraws [ October 27, 2005, 06:27 AM: Message edited by: Munson Man ]
RazorbackTX
Oct 27 2005, 06:34 AM
Up next....
Jenna?
Brownie's wife??
MIB
Oct 27 2005, 06:42 AM
QUOTE
Munson Man:
She has officially withdrawn. Poor thing.....
Miers withdraws Blame the doofus who nominated her. Which Bush buddy will he name now? Barney? He's been loyal to W. for years.
hockeyTom
Oct 27 2005, 06:47 AM
Oh my God Raze.

Thanks for the morning chuckle!! LOL
sfdriftking76
Oct 27 2005, 06:58 AM
Wow! what a jolt. I can't believe my eyes. The 'cleaning lady' has resigned? Bill Maher is gonna have a field day with this.
Now, for all the critics left and right who bashed Miers for her inexperience, and I was one of them, will be in for a scary treat. Bush will now go overboard to appease his bible-thumping base by electing a known Scalia or Thomas type. At least with Miers, we had some hope.
illini n milwaukee
Oct 27 2005, 06:59 AM
This is hilarious.....unfortunately I think this just this means we'll get the stereotypical ultra-conservative now.
bballrob
Oct 27 2005, 07:00 AM
I do feel sympathy for Ms. Myers, she was thrown into the ocean after just learning how to swim in a pool. She was just not qualified for the job and the cronyism angle was too clear. But I am glad she withdrew, she was just not qualified. I wish the other unqualified member of the court, Clarence Thomas, had done the same. I disagree with Scalia in almost every opinion and hate his nastiness in dissent, but he is not a legal lightweight, he has a brilliant mind and is a potent force on the court. The Supreme Court needs brilliance, competance and proven judicial and legal ability. Ms. Myers did not measure up.
Now, will the President come up with someone to pacify the right and cause another firestorm in the Senate or someone like Roberts who has the resume to do the job? My guess is the latter, Bush does not need another divisive issue right now. At least let's hope.
gobar
Oct 27 2005, 07:02 AM
So what now, he panders to the worst aspect of repubs- the ultra-religious right? You guys do realize that would be really bad for us right? I'll admit she was incompetent but I fear now he'll have to present someone worse for us to make those screaming heads happy. How on earth did we get here and are there any moderate republicans left in the senate who will stop this? I REALLY hate where this man is taking my country, rather has taken my country.
mdphl
Oct 27 2005, 07:30 AM
gobar - my thoughts exactly. Now we'll get more "red meat".
Cadillac
Oct 27 2005, 07:43 AM
I actually thought they would "stage" this news for shortly after the CIA leak indictments are made public.
Anyone remember November 4, 2004 when a puffed up George thought he had a "mandate" and said...
"Let me put it to you this way: I earned capital in the campaign, political capital, and now I intend to spend it. It is my style." and "I've got will of the people" which suggests he believes that his election is a broad political mandate. In announcing plans to reform Social Security, medical malpractice, the education system, and the tax code, he said, "I'll reach out to everyone who shares our goals."
- "W"
Anyone else enjoying watching Bush on his "capital" spending spree? Kind of reminds me of how ridiculous he looked a year after his "Mission Accomplished" speech.
[ October 27, 2005, 07:46 AM: Message edited by: Cadillac ]
gmginsfo
Oct 27 2005, 07:48 AM
Good level-headed post, bbrob; I agree with much of what you say. As well as Munson's thoughts towards "poor Harriet." She WAS in way over her head. But she did have honesty and integrity, as shown by her rendering perhaps the most professional service any lawyer can for a client: withdrawing when she realizes she's not up to the task.
Current talk is that Theodore Olson will be the next nominee, which would be OK with me, but I'd still prefer
Janice Rogers Brown of the DC Cir., or
Carlos Bea of the 9th, who played on the 1956 Cuban Olympic basketball team and whose son
Sebastian, center, took a silver in Sydney in rowing.
[ October 27, 2005, 08:01 AM: Message edited by: gmginsfo ]
CPT_Doom
Oct 27 2005, 07:51 AM
What will be interesting is to watch how, if Bush nominates some Scalia clone to the bench, the Democrats respond. They kept out of the Meirs mess, except for bipartisan issues like the joint Spector/Leahy statement, so they certainly cannot be blamed for causing the collapse of this nomination - the GOP did that all on their own.
So if Bush throws the red meat at that ultra-conservatives, the Dems still have some political capitol of their own to use - and I have to wonder whether the continued weakening of the Bush White House politically (VA candidate for governor Jerry Kilgore was very absent from a Bush speech this week, while showing off his support from Guiliani) will inspire moderate Repubs to go their own way. If the gang of 14 clearly feel a candidate is too far right, we could see a filibuster, with a whole heck of a lot less support for the "nuclear option."
Neptune
Oct 27 2005, 08:32 AM
So rumor has it that Bush picked Miers because other women on his shortlist said they were not interested in running the confirmation gauntlet. I'm guessing this means that the next nominee won't be one of the Ediths or Janice Rogers Brown (hopefully it won't be JRB, since I'm pretty sure she'd reverse Lawrence or Romer in a heartbeat. I suspect the next nominee will not be a woman.
I doubt it will be Ted Olson, since he's too old, and besides, the White House probably doesn't want to rehash Olson's problems with the Office of Independent Counsel during the 1980s, in light of the current investigation. I still think it could be Alberto Gonzales (my initial guess), though the accusations of cronyism with Miers might stick to him as well.
gmginsfo
Oct 27 2005, 08:47 AM
Tuner, Gonzalez and Garza are both fine in my book.
I disagree with your thinking that JRBrown would reverse Lawrence or Romer. There's no compelling reason to abandon stare decisis on either and she generally favors adhering to precedent. In fact, I suspect the reason most gay "activists," read leftists, dislike her is because they understand she'll generally come down on equal, if not marriage, rights our way, but via her own route, not their pre-programmed, lockstep one. That's probably the biggest reason why I admire her: her independence and willingness to tell it like it is, as she consistently did while on California's Supreme Court. She had her share of gay clerks and staff attorneys there, too, and is not at all the "homophobe" some would make her out to be.
In my dealings with her, I've found her to be an engaging speaker and intelligent listener, unlike so many others who are neither while professing to be both. I'd love to see her before the Senate Jud. Comm.; she'd really put Biden, Kennedy and Durbin in their place. Now THAT's entertainment!
Neptune
Oct 27 2005, 09:13 AM
QUOTE
gmginsfo:
I disagree with your thinking that JRBrown would reverse Lawrence or Romer. There's no compelling reason to abandon stare decisis on either and she generally favors adhering to precedent.
If she's willing to abandon stare decisis to overturn Roe (as most think she is), you can bet she'd abandon it for Lawrence or Romer. IMHO she would overturn Lawrence or Romer, if given the chance, because like Scalia, she sees morality and natural law as adequate bases for state legislation (just look at Scalia's blistering Romer and Lawrence dissents). Here's a quote from one of Judge Brown's speeches:
"We continue to chip away at the foundations of our success. We dismissed natural law and morality because its unverifiable judgments were deemed inferior to reason. But, then, we drove reason itself from the camp because the most significant of life’s questions defy empiricism. …Only natural law offers an alternative to might makes right and accounts for man’s 'unrelenting quest to rise above the ‘letter of the law’ to the realm of the spirit.'" She more explicitly (and in less flowery language) articulates her faith in morality in her dissent in the Texas parental consent case. This is why I'm personally against her, but frankly, I don't think Judge Brown is high profile enough among liberal gay activists for an opinion to be formed against her by them--I don't know where you're getting your theory on Brown's stance on gay marriage from.
[ October 27, 2005, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: Neptune ]
jqueer
Oct 27 2005, 09:52 AM
QUOTE
gmginsfo:
rendering perhaps the most professional service any lawyer can for a client: withdrawing when she realizes she's not up to the task.
And this was the problem from the outset. A Supreme Court nominee should not be in a lawyer client relationship with a President. In the health care field it's called a dual relationship and is forbidden by the cannon of ethics. I suspect it is similar in the legal field. (ok, that's a bit of hyperbole, but the point remains, Miers was a bad choice for several reasons and the excuse they're creating to withdraw her nomination is merely another smokescreen of an administration dangerously off the rails)
gmginsfo
Oct 27 2005, 10:08 AM
Tune, I'm forming my opinion of her based on my personal interactions with her and upon her written decisions, which are much more reliable than her speeches, or her table talk, for that matter. She's never written anything remotely suggestive of undermining Roe, and I do not at all think that requiring parental notification, or even consent, as a prerequisite for abortions on unemancipated minors living at home in any way starts us down any slippery slope against Roe, an argument which diminishes our capacity to discriminate and discern, BTW. If you disagree, hit up WESTLAW or LEXIS and cite something to the contrary.
Neptune
Oct 27 2005, 10:32 AM
QUOTE
gmginsfo:
Tune, I'm forming my opinion of her based on my personal interactions with her and upon her written decisions, which are much more reliable than her speeches, or her table talk, for that matter. She's never written anything remotely suggestive of undermining Roe, and I do not at all think that requiring parental notification, or even consent, as a prerequisite for abortions on unemancipated minors living at home in any way starts us down any slippery slope against Roe, an argument which diminishes our capacity to discriminate and discern, BTW. If you disagree, hit up WESTLAW or LEXIS and cite something to the contrary.
(1) I like the bait and switch that you're trying to pull. I don't see how your support of her views of parental consent connect at all to her views of morality, particularly within the context of gay rights. I cited her dissent in the parental consent case for an entirely different reason. Besides, I like my job and I plan on keeping it, so I'm not going to bill my firm or a client for a personal and entirely unnecessary Westlaw or Lexis search.
(2) I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. I expect the same from Judge Brown. While I don't expect a speech to telegraph how a justice will rule, I do expect a speech shed some light on a justice's judicial philosophy, whether it is Scalia's strict constructionism or Breyer's living constitutionalism. While I have no doubt that she was pleasant to you and articulate during personal interactions, I wouldn't use that as a basis for support.
Maddog
Oct 27 2005, 10:50 AM
Wow you guys are Hella-smart!
But what I want to know is...
What info is in the documents that Meirs' renege is protecting?
Neptune
Oct 27 2005, 11:02 AM
QUOTE
Maddog:
Wow you guys are Hella-smart!
But what I want to know is...
What info is in the documents that Meirs' renege is protecting?
Tee hee, don't let the posts fool you. Spend a week in law school and you too can learn to write about legal minutae, or at least fake like you're an expert. Anyways, the White House says its all about privileged documents that they don't want to release, but both Dems and Repubs on the Senate judiciary committee said that they don't want privileged documents. So I think its all a smokescreen for the perception that she's just not qualified. To be honest, I wish we could have at least gotten to the hearings phase of the confirmation. Even though support for her was minimal, no one on the left or right was rabidly against Miers, and I was interested in what she had to say--she would have been forced to be pretty candid, since so little is known about her views.
[ October 27, 2005, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: Neptune ]
bballrob
Oct 27 2005, 11:11 AM
One thing I don't think the White House anticipated was the major flap it was getting from Congress about the conflict of interest issue. The person who should have clued them into that problem was the White House counsel, but she was a bit busy. Regardless of the political stripe of the justice most Supreme Court Justices recuse him/herself at the whiff of any connection with the case (Scalia being the notable exception in that case involving the VP, after he went hunting with them). Obviously Congress and the legal community would be concerned that Ms. Myers recuse herself on any issue involving the White House, which actually can be quite a few cases.
So I think Bush needs another Roberts, someone who will be respected and not cause waves and who will sail through the Senate. I really hope he doesn't think he has to throw red meat to the religious right, that is just going to piss off everyone else. The country is tiring of President Bush, creating another controversy may shore up his base but will just make the rest of the country turn against him even further.
hockeyTom
Oct 27 2005, 11:36 AM
The country isn't tiring of Bush, its dead tired of Bush!!!

eek!
fenwayguy
Oct 27 2005, 02:06 PM
QUOTE
RazorbackTX
Up next....
Jenna?
Brownie's wife??
Bush To Nominate Next Person Who Walks Through Door QUOTE
\"I assure the American people that the next person who enters my field of vision will be a highly qualified candidate of unimpeachable character with a solid record and, what's more, a good heart,\" said Bush, staring intently at the door in the north side of his White House office.
As of press time, 17 people were waiting outside the door, including District of Columbia Director of Weights and Measures Jeffrey Mason, the president's daughter Jenna, and special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald.
hockeyTom
Oct 27 2005, 03:58 PM
That is too funny!
gmginsfo
Oct 27 2005, 04:51 PM
Tuner, Let me see if I got this right: You bring up JRBrown's dissent in a case that actually turns out to be from CA, not TX, and then accuse me of bait 'n' switch when I respond to it because I somehow couldn't divine your true meaning? Just so I am clear, what WERE you trying to say? That her support for parental consent necessarily implies antipathy towards gay rights? Now that's not the most reasonable inference of her views on our issues, particularly since she sat for years on Cal. courts and never made ANY rulings against us, thus providing the best evidence of her beliefs in our concerns. You know the rule, when a reasonable inference can be drawn from facts that might also support an unreasonable one, the reasonable inference is to be preferred. Particularly when it comes from facts found in her own opinions, not the fretful musings of "People for the American Way."
[ October 27, 2005, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: gmginsfo ]
Neptune
Oct 27 2005, 06:38 PM
QUOTE
gmginsfo:
You know the rule, when a reasonable inference can be drawn from facts that might also support an unreasonable one, the reasonable inference is to be preferred. Particularly when it comes from facts found in her own opinions, not the fretful musings of \"People for the American Way.\"
gmginsfo, at no point in any of my posts did I narrowly focus on the merits of parental consent or Judge Brown's support of it. You're the one who turned the discussion in that direction. I referenced her dissenting opinion in
Lungren to make the broader point that Judge Brown's willingness to uphold state legislation on moral/natural law grounds suggests that her jurisprudence would not be condusive to gay rights successes. This focus of my post seemed obvious, since I referenced her speech on morality in the preceding quote, which you subsequently disregarded. But since you want text from an opinion, here you go:
The fundamental problem with the plurality's approach to constitutional jurisprudence is that it allows the courts to topple every cultural icon, to dismiss all societal values, and to become the final arbiters of traditional morality in a context in which their view of wisdom cannot be challenged. "[T]he judiciary can change the most fundamental patterns of our social character with no real proof that the change will be for the better-or, in the long run, even tolerable." (Hafen, The Constitutional Status of Marriage, Kinship, and Sexual Privacy-Balancing the Individual and Social Interests, supra, 81 Mich. L.Rev. at p. 550.) That is why legislatures must be accorded broad deference on issues as to which reasonable minds can differ and why courts must exercise reasoned judgment and self-restraint. (16 Cal.4th 441)
Compare this with the opening paragraph of Justice Scalia's bombastic dissent in
Romer v. Evans:
In holding that homosexuality cannot be singled out for disfavorable treatment, the Court contradicts a decision, unchallenged here, pronounced only 10 years ago, see Bowers v. Hardwick, 478 U.S. 186 (1986), and places the prestige of this institution behind the proposition that opposition to homosexuality is as reprehensible as racial or religious bias. Whether it is or not is precisely the cultural debate that gave rise to the Colorado constitutional amendment (and to the preferential laws against which the amendment was directed). Since the Constitution of the United States says nothing about this subject, it is left to be resolved by normal democratic means, including the democratic adoption of provisions in state constitutions. This Court has no business imposing upon all Americans the resolution favored by the elite class from which the Members of this institution are selected, pronouncing that "animosity" toward homosexuality, ante, at 13, is evil. I vigorously dissent. Sorry if I wasn't sufficiently clear, but I'll strike that up (as well as my Texas-California mix up) to my attempt to quickly draft a coherent post while at work. My point is that she--like Scalia--would take a hands-off approach to many of the issues that deeply affect the lives of queer folks, predicating her decisions on the moral beliefs of the public even when there is no legitimate basis to uphold antigay laws (e.g. no governmental interest is furthered).
fantomas
Oct 27 2005, 08:54 PM
Janice Rogers Brown in her own, nutty, extreme words. But hey, don't take them at face value, trust Gmg. He knows her.
QUOTE
We continue to chip away at the foundations of our success. We dismissed natural law and morality because its unverifiable judgments were deemed inferior to reason. But, then, we drove reason itself from the camp because the most significant of life’s questions defy empiricism. …Only natural law offers an alternative to might makes right and accounts for man’s “unrelenting quest to rise above the ‘letter of the law’ to the realm of the spirit.” [IFJ speech at 15, 17]
Janice Rogers Brown On American Government
Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible. [“A Whiter Shade of Pale,” Speech to Federalist Society (April 20. 2000)(“Federalist speech” at 8]
Where government advances – and it advances relentlessly – freedom is imperiled; community impoverished; religion marginalized and civilization itself jeopardized....When did government cease to be a necessary evil and become a goody bag to solve our private problems? [“Hyphenasia: the Mercy Killing of the American Dream,” Speech at Claremont-McKenna College (Sept. 16, 1999) at 3,4]
[W]e no longer find slavery abhorrent. We embrace it. We demand more. Big government is not just the opiate of the masses. It is the opiate. The drug of choice for multinational corporations and single moms; for regulated industries and rugged Midwestern farmers and militant senior citizens. [IFJ speech at 3-4]
My grandparents’ generation thought being on the government dole was disgraceful, a blight on the family’s honor. Today’s senior citizens blithely cannibalize their grandchildren because they have a right to get as much “free” stuff as the political system will permit them to extract...Big government is...[t]he drug of choice for multinational corporations and single moms, for regulated industries and rugged Midwestern farmers, and militant senior citizens. [IFJ speech at 2,3]
I would deny [the senior citizen] plaintiff relief because she has failed to establish the public policy against age discrimination “inures to the benefit of the public” or is “fundamental and substantial”...Discrimination based on age...does not mark its victim with a “stigma of inferiority and second class citizenship”....; it is the unavoidable consequence of that universal leveler: time [Dissenting opinion in Stevenson v. Superior Court, 941 P.2d 1157,1177, 1187 (Cal. 1997)]
I have argued that collectivism was (and is) fundamentally incompatible with the vision that undergirded this country’s founding. The New Deal, however, inoculated the federal Constitution with a kind of underground collectivist mentality. The Constitution itself was transmuted into a significantly different document...1937...marks the triumph of our own socialist revolution...Politically, the belief in human perfectibility is another way of asserting that differences between the few and the many can, over time, be erased. That creed is a critical philosophical proposition underlying the New Deal. What is extraordinary is the way that thesis infiltrated and effected American constitutionalism over the next three-quarters of a century. Its effect was not simply to repudiate, both philosophically and in legal doctrine, the framers’ conception of humanity, but to cut away the very ground on which the Constitution rests... In the New Deal/Great Society era, a rule that was the polar opposite of the classical era of American law reigned [Federalist speech at 8, 10, 11, 12]
In the last 100 years – and particularly the last 30 – the Constitution, once the fixed chart of our aspirations, has been demoted to the status of a bad chain novel. [IFJ speech at2]
In the New Deal/Great Society era, a rule that was the polar opposite of the classical era of American law reigned...Protection of property was a major casualty of the Revolution of 1937…Rights were reordered and property acquired a second class status...It thus became government’s job not to protect property but, rather, to regulate and redistribute it. And, the epic proportions of the disaster which has befallen millions of people during the ensuing decades has not altered our fervent commitment to statism. [Federalist speech at 12, 13]
At its founding and throughout its early history, this regime revered private property. The American philosophy of the Rights of Man relied heavily on the indissoluble connection between rationality, property, freedom and justice. The Founders viewed the right of property as “the guardian of every other right”….[IFJ speech at 5]
[P]rivate property, already an endangered species in California, is now entirely extinct in San Francisco…I would find the HCO [San Francisco Residential Hotel Unit Conversion and Demolition Ordinance] preempted by the Ellis Act and facially unconstitutional. …Theft is theft even when the government approves of the thievery. Turning a democracy into a kleptocracy does not enhance the stature of the thieves; it only diminishes the legitimacy of the government. …The right to express one’s individuality and essential human dignity through the free use of property is just as important as the right to do so through speech, the press, or the free exercise of religion. [Dissenting opinion in San Remo Hotel L.P. v. City and County of San Francisco, 41 P.3d 87, 120, 128-9 (Cal. 2002)(upholding San Francisco ordinance calling on hotel owners seeking permission to eliminate residential units and convert to tourist hotels help replace lost rental units for low income, elderly, and disabled persons)][See also IFJ speech at 4 (warning that without effective limits on government, “a democracy is inevitably transformed into a Kleptocracy.”)]
Thus, lawyers have secured the right of topless dancers to perform, but have banished prayer from public life. They have won the right for indigents to take over public spaces, even our children’s libraries, and for the mentally ill to live on streets and shout obscenities at passersby. Legal advocates have guaranteed the right of students to be ignorant by opposing competency tests, and ignored their brazen possession and use of weapons in school. [“Politics: A Vision for Change,” Docket (Dec. 1993) at 15]
Politicians in their eagerness to please and to provide something of value to their constituencies that does not have a price tag are handing out new rights like lollipops in the dentist’s office. [Speech to Sacramento County bar Ass’n (May 1, 1996) at 6-7]
[T]he courts overcame these alleged limitations on their powers with ridiculous ease. How? By constitutionalizing everything possible, finding constitutional rights which are nowhere mentioned in the Constitution. By taking a few words which are in the Constitution like “due process” and “equal protection” and imbuing them with elaborate and highly implausible etymologies; and by enunciating standards of constitutional review which are not standards at all but rather policy vetoes, i.e., strict scrutiny and the compelling state interest standard. [Libertarian speech at 7-8]
The United States Supreme Court, however, began in the 1940s to incorporate the Bill of Rights into the 14th Amendment…The historical evidence supporting what the Supreme Court did here is pretty sketchy…The argument on the other side is pretty overwhelming that it’s probably not incorporated. [“Beyond the Abyss: Restoring Religion on the Public Square,” Speech to Pepperdine Bible Lectureship in 1999]
Democracy and capitalism seem to have triumphed. But, appearances can be deceiving. Instead of celebrating capitalism’s virtues, we offer it grudging acceptance, contemptuous tolerance, but only for its capacity to feed the insatiable maw of socialism. We do not conclude that socialism suffers from a fundamental flaw. We conclude instead that its ends are worthy of any sacrifice – including our freedom….1937…marks the triumph of our own socialist revolution. [Federalist speech at 6-7, 10]
In truth, liberalism’s vaunted tolerance and openness is a lie. In America, at least, liberalism is tolerant only of those concerns to which it is indifferent. To those trivialized forms of religious observance which amount to no more than a consumer preference, the culture maintains a posture of tolerance. [Speech to St. Thomas More Society (Oct. 15, 1998) at 8]
gmginsfo
Oct 28 2005, 08:37 AM
Fair enough, Neptune. Although I don't take the same pessimistic view of her that you do, now I know what you were trying to say.
As for you, FT, I never said to judge her by my opinion of her, but by her own written legal opinions, not speeches. So naturally, you proceed to follow the latter course to unreason. But even accepting your usual, wholesale cutting and pasting from a pastiche of left-wing sites, and forgetting that only two of those excerpts contain actual written legal opinions by her, I will tell you that I agree with each and every word she says in your post and that I admire her for putting those words together as she did. She's a smart, independent, and tough lady - and it must gall you to no end to see her expose and reject the failed policies and programs you preach - because she knows better than you will ever presume to teach.
fantomas
Oct 28 2005, 12:18 PM
QUOTE
gmginsfo:
As for you, FT, I never said to judge her by my opinion of her, but by her own written legal opinions, not speeches. So naturally, you proceed to follow the latter course to unreason. But even accepting your usual, wholesale cutting and pasting from a pastiche of left-wing sites, and forgetting that only two of those excerpts contain actual written legal opinions by her, I will tell you that I agree with each and every word she says in your post and that I admire her for putting those words together as she did. She's a smart, independent, and tough lady - and it must gall you to no end to see her expose and reject the failed policies and programs you preach - because she knows better than you will ever presume to teach.
Yawn. "Smart, independent, and tough"= nutty, far out of the American mainstream, appealing only to ultraconservatives.
Again, you're stretching. I never wrote or claimed these comments, which I would imagine provide some index of her beliefs (since not everyone who speaks publicly engages in charades and dissimulation like the W administration), are her "legal opinions." I doubt that she'd disavow any of them, and they're probably as clear an indication of her mindset, which will factor into her judgments, as anything else, including your personal experiences with her. The same can be said for any of the justices sitting on SCOTUS; there is not one of them whose public talks diverge wildly from their adjudication. Is there?
Finally, just keep in mind that the "failed policies and programs" I "preach" (I'm hardly anyone's "preacher," but I guess you mean fair housing laws? a repeal of sodomy laws? social security? collective bargaining?) are the very ones MOST Americans support. Perhaps you want to live under a legal, statutory system based on "natural law," but I'll pass, as would most Americans.
gmginsfo
Oct 28 2005, 02:33 PM
I'd hardly call all those Californians who voted to confirm her to her trial, appellate and supreme court seats "ultraconservative."
And I never said you wrote those comments; in fact, I noted your usual cutting and pasting of them from unattributed sites. Sure, her speeches provide "some" index of her beliefs, but not all; speeches are much less carefully crafted than legal opinions. As for any current justices whose talks diverge from their opinions, I'm reminded of Ruth Bader Ginsburg's freewheeling beliefs on abortion, which came to light in the Roberts hearings, and I recall Thurgood Marshall's flippant remark about the Rehnquist Court being only a temporary diversion from what he considered proper jurisprudence when speaking after an opinion issued against his liking.
Finally, where in any of the excerpts you cobbled together appear any reference to "fair housing laws? a repeal of sodomy laws? social security? [or] collective bargaining?" Nothing JRB said in your post - or has ever said in any of her opinions, for that matter - addressed any of those issues. There is no dispute that most Americans support most, if not all, of the 4 items you mention. But again, you're changing the subject because you can't support your demonization of this able woman with any real facts to support it.
MIB
Oct 28 2005, 03:00 PM
QUOTE
gmginsfo:
I'd hardly call all those Californians who voted to confirm her to her trial, appellate and supreme court seats \"ultraconservative.\"
Well, gmg, they are because she's not a leftist black person. You see, it's against the black creed for any African American to hold anything but a socialistic, left-wing viewpoint (of course, where has it gotten them all these decades? not very far, I'm afraid). Because she doesn't toe the same line FT and his ilk toe, they're summarily and automatically branded "ultraconservatives" or extremists. Too bad they're actually aligned with a majority of Americans.
RazorbackTX
Oct 28 2005, 03:17 PM
MIB - Are your kids African American? White?
otherwise?
dstain
Oct 28 2005, 03:50 PM
dollars to donuts, the administration nominates someone else immediately to take the heat off the libby indictment......
hockeyTom
Oct 28 2005, 03:56 PM
You are reading my mind. I expect an announcemant anytime, to try to take most of the news stories off the Libby indictment.
Neptune
Oct 28 2005, 04:21 PM
[quote]MIB:
[/quote]Well, gmg, they are because she's not a leftist black person. You see, it's against the black creed for any African American to hold anything but a socialistic, left-wing viewpoint (of course, where has it gotten them all these decades? not very far, I'm afraid). Because she doesn't toe the same line FT and his ilk toe, they're summarily and automatically branded \"ultraconservatives\" or extremists. Too bad they're actually aligned with a majority of Americans. [/QUOTE]
MIB, I'm sure that explains the very different reactions black people have when asked about Colin Powell and Clarence Thomas. And MIB, I didn't realize you know the "black creed." I guess you know our secret handshake as well.
If I were gmginsfo, I'd be pissed if someone tried to jump on my bandwagon with dumb statements like the one you just wrote.
I'm never quite sure what to think when you try to claim familiarity with the political views of the black community (which is quite often). Are you being facetious or serious? I hope it's the former. Because if it's the latter, it suggests that either (1) you get all of your information about black people's political views from secondhand sources; (2) you know very few black people, so you have a sampling error; or (3) you haven't asked a black person for his/her political views in 10 years.
I write this from a city where the black population overwhelmingly favors a white republican in the mayoral race, despite Bill and Hillary's endorsement of his latino democratic challenger. But you knew that of course, since you know black people.
As someone who tries to give people the benefit of doubt, I've tried to refrain from questioning your credibility a la Raze. But I'm starting to wonder...
HornFan
Oct 28 2005, 07:14 PM
QUOTE
dollars to donuts, the administration nominates someone else immediately to take the heat off the libby indictment......
They may want to save that card for Karl Rove.
illini n milwaukee
Oct 28 2005, 10:50 PM
Wow, this is a nice quote....sorry if it's been posted already....
Trent Lott: "I think the President should look across the country and find the most qualified man, woman, or minority."
thersis
Oct 29 2005, 03:51 AM
spoken as only trent lott could....
so does this mean one is either a man, a woman, OR a minority?
i think the word candidate would have been a better choice than man, woman, or minority.
He probably began to say the most qualified man and then realized that would get him in hot water...though he could have simply said man or woman.
fantomas
Oct 29 2005, 06:22 PM
QUOTE
MIB:
Well, gmg, they are because she's not a leftist black person. You see, it's against the black creed for any African American to hold anything but a socialistic, left-wing viewpoint (of course, where has it gotten them all these decades? not very far, I'm afraid). Because she doesn't toe the same line FT and his ilk toe, they're summarily and automatically branded \"ultraconservatives\" or extremists. Too bad they're actually aligned with a majority of Americans.
Man, this is so idiotic it boggles the mind. What the hell is the "black creed"? Is that like the "white creed" or the "yellow creed" or the "red creed"?
Just so you know, I don't care if other Black people don't toe your fantasy "socialistic" "left-wing" "line." As Neptune notes, there is a difference between the likes of Clarence Thomas and someone I have and would have supported, like Colin Powell, who is Black (does he espouse this phantom "black creed"?) for the presidency or any other elective office. I was especially upset when Colin Powell allowed himself to be roped into the ridiculous WMD sideshow, and commented on my disappointment on this very board AT THAT TIME. Had he been someone like Janice Rogers Brown or Thomas, my primary response would have been disgust though I would not have been surprised.
Janice Rogers Brown is FAR outside the mainstream, of California politics or national politics. She is an extremist. California voters may have voted her in, but then again, California voters also put in Jerry Brown Sr. and Jr., Pete Wilson, Gray Davis, Ronald Reagan into office as well. Six in one hand, one half in another. "Black creed" or not, "man, woman or minority."
[ October 29, 2005, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]
George Twins fan
Jan 4 2007, 06:01 PM
Supreme Court nominee Miers has resigned her position as White House counsel. Guess she wants to bail before things get even worse!
http://www.comcast.net/news/politics/index...;cvqh=itn_miers
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