Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Dear Governor Blagojevich: Thanks for Putting my Father Out of Work
Outsports Discussion Board > Outsports > Politics & Religion
MIB
My father for the last several years has worked as a dealer at Hollywood Casino in Aurora, IL. Because he needed the income to supplement my mother's in the raising of their 3-year-old granddaughter (among other things), it wasn't as if his job was his dream job, but at his age, what's he going to do? McDonald's?

He made some good money there, even though his work scheduled sucked (8:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. four nights a week).

Well, as many folks here may have read, Blagojevich and the Democratically-controled Illinois General Assembly just jacked up Illinois' casino tax to a confiscatory rate of 70%. Wow!

Already at the highest in the nation at 50% the last two years, the new rate of 70% goes into effect July 1, 2003. Plus, the "admission charge" goes from $3 to $5 per person. Patrons never had to actually pay this charge, because the casinos just paid it based on number of people attending. Now, however, the casinos are going to charge admission just to get in.

My father has informed me that at his casino alone, 130 people were laid off this past Wednesday, the 25th. Another 170 people were called at home and told they're history. My father was in Human Resources Wednesday and was told his last shift is this Sunday night. One of his friends there who just bought a house got the axe.

Now they're all going to be added to Illinois' unemployment rolls, lining up to collect unemployment insurance from Illinois' already in-the-red unemployment insurance fund.

A total of 300 people are being fired from the Hollywood Casino alone. Furthermore, they increased the cost of parking there by 100%. They are eliminating over half their table games and all their "revenue sharing" slot machines (that's where casinos share slot revenue w/ the machines' manufacturers).

The other Illinois casinos are following suit--all because of the outrageous tax rate of 70%. Our greedy governor is convinced that this increased tax will bring in several hundred million dollars of additional revenue for the state. Imagine his surprise when he finds out that this will not only NOT happen, but that even LESS tax revenue than before will be the result.

Another stupid idea on his part: In the tax increase Blagojevich opposed the lifting of gaming positions in Illinois casinos. Illinois is the only state in the nation whose casinos are limited to a fixed number of gaming positions: 1200 per casino. One slot machine = one gaming position. One card table game = seven positions. One craps table = 15 positions.

Neighboring Indiana, whose casinos number 2500 to 3000 or more positions, is raking in the money, thereby producing increased tax revenue for that state. Furthermore, increasingly more Illinois residents are going to Indiana's casinos for this and the above reasons. Moreover, Indiana for the first time ever surpassed Illinois' casino revenue for the year 2002.

But our governor is blind to this, stupidly thinking that increased taxes results in more revenue. You see why this isn't the case? Heck, in NY, the increase in the cigarette tax has had the opposite effect, driving people to New Jersey and other underground places to buy their smokes.

Even Illinois' AFL-CIO president Margaret Blackshere opposed this tax increase. As she put it: "It's all about jobs."

She's right. Both her organization and the Republicans in the Illinois Legislature--an odd partnership there, indeed--vehemently fought this tax increase, but the Democrats saw dollar signs in their eyes.

Now my father has experienced this first-hand. Thanks, Governor, for causing him--and hundreds of others--to lose their job.

[ June 29, 2003, 01:29 AM: Message edited by: MIB ]
thersis
you are being far too generous to the current governor; he deserves only a very small portion of the credit, not all of it.

some credit should go to the previous governors who, when times were flush didn't hold spending in check as much as they should have. they made the absurd mistake so many others did; they believed the good times would last forever. and they weren't fiscally prudent.

and certainly some credit goes to our president's job-creating (oh, the irony) tax cuts, which, because of cuts in aid to states and municipalities didn't really cut taxes at all, but merely shifted them to the local level.

so, i think you owe governor ryan and president bush an apology for not acknowledging their contribution to your father's unfortunate circumstance.
MIB
QUOTE
thersis:
you are being far too generous to the current governor; he deserves only a very small portion of the credit, not all of it.

so, i think you owe governor ryan and president bush an apology for not acknowledging their contribution to your father's unfortunate circumstance.
Such a typical response. I'm not surprised.

Bush isn't at fault for Illinois' fiscal woes; and I despise former Governor Lyin' Ryan anyway. He's to blame for a lot of schit in this state. However, NONE of this excuses an asinine, confiscatory tax that is going to result in LESS tax revenue for the state, not more.

There are a myriad of ways to balance Illinois' budget. Jacking up the casino tax to lose jobs isn't one of them.
p2insdca
I do think the Bush policies are having a direct effect on the states, and to say otherwise is wrong. This is NOT to say it is only Bush that is at fault, just that it is a part of the problem. Take the leave no child behind. This is an underfunded federal mandate. It is costing my state millions of dollars. Also in my state the Bush admin has cut funding for the children of the military, the schools districts have to pay for them. that change cost San Diego some 3.5 million dollars. The funds had to found some where.
Now I also do not think a hike in tax is always the best course. So MIB where you you come up with the money, cut state workers? How about stopping some programs or road construction?
Before blaming or defending someone, how about coming up with where you would find the funds, or cut spending?
RazorbackTX
Guess what dude? Almost 3 million other people have lost their jobs since Bush became "president", hopefully your dad will get a great tax cut and then find another job.

[ June 29, 2003, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: RazorbackTX ]
p2insdca
I being one of them!
MIB
QUOTE
p2insdca:
I do think the Bush policies are having a direct effect on the states, and to say otherwise is wrong. This is NOT to say it is only Bush that is at fault, just that it is a part of the problem. Take the leave no child behind. This is an underfunded federal mandate.
You bring up a good point, one which has irked me for some time. Congress is damn good at unfunded mandates. It's utterly irresponsible to mandate the states do this or that but then refuse to assist them in paying for it. This congressional stupidity has been going on for a long time, with both parties to blame for it.

Of course, they always find time to stick in their congressional pay raises.

QUOTE

Now I also do not think a hike in tax is always the best course. So MIB where you you come up with the money, cut state workers? How about stopping some programs or road construction?
Before blaming or defending someone, how about coming up with where you would find the funds, or cut spending?
Actually, Blagojevich is, indeed, cutting a bunch of state workers, particularly in the patronage-laden commissions and boards.

Did anyone in Illinois bother to realize that the General Assembly just can't say NO when it comes to spending? How can we cut the budget when we jack up spending on a lot of programs that should be cut? Pork, pork, and more pork--or payoffs to friends, in reality.

Also, why is it when the state was flush with money that it couldn't stop itself from its orgiastic spending spree? Governor Lyin' Ryan was to blame for a lot of this as well, since he was the king in dishing out costly projects to friends.

QUOTE
Originally posted by RazorbackTX
Guess what dude? Almost 3 million other people have lost their jobs since Bush became \"president\", hopefully your dad will get a great tax cut and then find another job.
A typical asinine liberal response. I'm sure if my old man was some leftist you'd be crying your tears. Another example of how the Left truly IS the insensitive, careless ones. Always negative are they. (And puhleeze, don't try to lump me in with the Right, either. I'm a proud Independent.)

You still lack the intelligence to see how BAD this whopping tax increase is, don't you? I'll say it again: When the AFL-CIO and its president, a staunch liberal named Margaret Blackshere, are vehemently opposed to it, along with Republicans, businesses, and many citizens, it kinda makes us here wonder.

Mrs. Blackshere was 100% correct when she said it's all about jobs, and how it's going to cost a lot of people theirs.

It's bad enough when tough economic times cost people their jobs, but when it's avoidable, like it is here, it's more frustrating.

[ June 29, 2003, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: MIB ]
Joe in Philly
Are the companies running casinos there actually LOSING money? With the money that people spend on gambling, are they actually losing money and even going bankrupt? Or are they being asked to pay more out of gigantic profits and using this tax increase as an excuse to lay off workers?

The governor in New Jersey has asked for an increase on the taxes that New Jersey casinos pay, and they're making the same argument that they'll have to lay off workers--using obnoxious radio commercials featuring some bratty little girl who says she'll send the governor her life savings of $10.59 so he won't fire her daddy. These casinos have raked in ridiculous profits for the last 25 years and have NEVER had their taxes increased. Not ONCE. What scum. Utter scum.

[ June 29, 2003, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]
RazorbackTX
Originally posted by MIB:
I'm sure if my old man was some leftist you'd be crying your tears.


Wrong, as usual.
fantomas
MIB, I do agree with you--and have before--on this tax increase. It's really bizarre and idiotic. I've also pointed out that not only Indiana, but also Missouri and Iowa, which abut Illinois, have gaming tax provisions that are more equitable than Illinois', so in addition to the loss of revenues from people heading over the Indiana border, Illinois residents in western and southern Illinois can simply cross the rivers to throw their money away to neighboring states.

The fact remains that the states are in the WORST fiscal positions in many years. Blago's gaming provisions are terrible, but at least he is trying to do some trimming of Illinois' bloated budget and public sector. Some of his ideas, like selling off key real estate, strike me as very short-sighted. But other options aren't so bad; he's in a tight place, and state legislatures usually do NOT want to cut their pork, whether they're controlled by the Democrats or the GOP. Look at conservative Alabama! That state's rightist governor is trying to push through tax INCREASES because the state is in real straits, and he's resorted to using Christian compassion arguments to persuade fellow GOPers to go along with his plan.

President W's economic policies haven't done a damned thing to help the states, and it's likely that the tax cuts will make things worse at the state level, because fewer federal government revenue sources mean the states will have to tap more money from strapped residents. I feel bad for your father, but don't forget that Blago isn't operating in a vacuum. And I assure you, if Chicago and its suburbs weren't there to provide the bulk of the state's revenues, things would be FARRRRRR worse!
Torgauer
There have been repeated proposals to open casinos here. I've always voted against them. I fear gambling concerns would be a malign influence in state politics. It's best to keep it accross the state line in Connecticut. Good luck to them. The issue was again raised this year as the budget was debated. The States are in a tough bind, revenues are down, Federal aid cut. The State in turn is passing a good chunk of the difficulty along to the cities and towns in the form of local aid cuts. Several communities have already passed increases in local property taxes. Others have alternatively had to impose draconian cuts in services - police, fire, schools. They anticipate laying off 2500 state workers here. Even with that and cuts in services it's still not enough. In times like these the "sin" taxes are always the first resort. Cigarettes, liquor, gambling. They're in a weak position because I imagine some segment of the citizenry wouldn't care if they got taxed right out of business. Comes to a choice between increased sin taxes or increased income taxes and you gotta know how it's going to turn out.
MIB
QUOTE
Joe in Philly:
Are the companies running casinos there actually LOSING money? With the money that people spend on gambling, are they actually losing money and even going bankrupt? Or are they being asked to pay more out of gigantic profits and using this tax increase as an excuse to lay off workers?
Actually, Joe, the casinos have been doing fine, but recently (the last year and this year thus far), Illinois casinos have been surpassed by Indiana casinos in terms of profit and tax revenue for the state. With Indiana not having the stupid gaming position limits, thereby allowing for many more games, they can bring in more money and subsequently more tax revenue for that state.

Not so here in Illinois.
QUOTE

The governor in New Jersey has asked for an increase on the taxes that New Jersey casinos pay, and they're making the same argument that they'll have to lay off workers--using obnoxious radio commercials featuring some bratty little girl who says she'll send the governor her life savings of $10.59 so he won't fire her daddy. These casinos have raked in ridiculous profits for the last 25 years and have NEVER had their taxes increased. Not ONCE. What scum. Utter scum.
You can't fairly categorize Illinois' casinos like you do the NJ ones, Joe. Illinois' casinos have had their taxes raised several times. Two years ago the tax rate was raised to 50%, the highest in the country. Now they've been jacked up to 70%, a staggering amount. This is 40% higher than the last amount, already highest in the nation.
MIB
QUOTE
fantomas:
MIB, I do agree with you--and have before--on this tax increase.  It's really bizarre and idiotic.  I've also pointed out that not only Indiana, but also Missouri and Iowa, which abut Illinois, have gaming tax provisions that are more equitable than Illinois', so in addition to the loss of revenues from people heading over the Indiana border, Illinois residents in western and southern Illinois can simply cross the rivers to throw their money away to neighboring states.
I know. Just this past weekend there were stories on the local news stations about the layoffs and new taxes. Almost every casino patron said they were going to Indiana to play. The reasons cited?
  • More games (meaning less crowded tables, etc.)
  • Cheaper parking
  • No admission charge
  • Cheaper food and drinks

I go to casinos on average perhaps once every two years or so. I'm just not much of a gambler. When I do go, however, I hate it when I can't find space at a table game (I'm a Caribbean Stud and Blackjack fan)--and I go at times that aren't too busy. Now, with many tables being closed, it's only going to get worse. My next trip will be to Indiana to go.

QUOTE

Blago's gaming provisions are terrible, but at least he is trying to do some trimming of Illinois' bloated budget and public sector.  Some of his ideas, like selling off key real estate, strike me as very short-sighted.  But other options aren't so bad; he's in a tight place, and state legislatures usually do NOT want to cut their pork, whether they're controlled by the Democrats or the GOP.  
I'm not blasting his entire budget. I commend him for sticking to his guns on certain things and for resisting the Legislators on a few sticking points--the big ethics provisions, for example. I applaud him for not taking the stupid route of raising the state income tax. That would have been disastrous, though there's no guarantee he won't break that promise and go along with an increase anyway. Time will tell.

I'm just opposed to this specific aspect of his budget. I just don't understand how he cannot realize how such a confiscatory tax policy in this regard will do more harm than good.
p2insdca
MIB I do feel for your father, as I am also out of a job. Just think of the mess we will be in if SS is privatized! think of your dad having worked and invested part of his SS in say enron?
The left is not uncaring, nethier are everybody on the right. Many states are in very deep trouble.
Charlie in the Trees
QUOTE
p2insdca:
MIB I do feel for your father, as I am also out of a job. Just think of the mess we will be in if SS is privatized! think of your dad having worked and invested part of his SS in say enron?
NON SEQUITUR ALERT ... WARNING ... WARNING ... NON SEQUITUR IN THE ABOVE POST

Yeah, and just think how his father would be sitting pretty if his Social Security had been invested in Microsoft or Wal Mart from when he first started working.
p2insdca
Yea, and if wishes were fishs we would all be drowned in scales!
You pick 2 growth stocks from the 80s CITT....You miss, or skip that many brokers were pushing the Enrons. BTW when Mircosoft came out it was not a darling of NYSE or NASDAQ.
NON SEQUITUR ALERT ... WARNING ... WARNING ... NON SEQUITUR IN THE ABOVE POST you must be ready for bed, your senses are sleepy
MIB
How weird is this: My dad reports to HR this morning to turn in his shirts and badges, etc. He leaves and goes immediately to the unemployment office, where he files for unemployment. He claims his 3-year-old granddaughter as a dependent. He declines to have taxes deducted from his unemployment insurance checks. His weekly benefit amounts will be just under what his take-home pay was while he was working (something like $70 or so per check).

He has decided to begin collecting Social Security at the end of the year. If the federal unemployment insurance account is extended--currently it runs through 12/31/03--he can continue to collect unemployment and social security (though the former is adjusted a bit due to his collecting SS).

His honest-to-God reaction to this? He's loving it! "What incentive do I have to work if the government is paying me all this money? I love this!"

Something's wrong here. :confused:


Believe it or not, my old man is left of center, to boot.

[ July 01, 2003, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: MIB ]
RazorbackTX
QUOTE
MIB:
Believe it or not, my old man is left of center, to boot.

Something's wrong here.      :confused:  
Oh, how interesting, your old man is a leftie huh? Well then he must be "insensitive", "careless" and "always negative."

[ July 01, 2003, 06:18 AM: Message edited by: RazorbackTX ]
Torgauer
I'm not sure it was wise to pass on the withholding. He will have to pay federal income tax on the Unemployment Insurance and probably state tax as well. Federal withholding is 10% with state being in addition to that. Combined, your're talking in the 15-20% range. That can be a sizable piece of change to come up with next April especially for someone living on a fixed income.

Here in MA they reduce your Unemployment by an amount equal to 50% of your monthly Social Security benefit (prorated by week). In most cases it substantially reduces the amount received and many people, particularly those collecting unemployment based on part-time work, lose their unemployment entirely because the deduction exceeds the amount of the benefit. The amount deducted can vary from state to state. You can collect both simultaneously. How much you get, or whether you get anything at all depends on the math. A $70 unemployment benefit would be completely wiped out by a Social Security payment of about $600 a month.
p2insdca
And willing to live off unemployment, Lazy liberals
Charlie in the Trees
QUOTE
p2insdca:
Yea, and if wishes were fishs we would all be drowned in scales!
You pick 2 growth stocks from the 80s CITT....You miss, or skip that many brokers were pushing the Enrons. BTW when Mircosoft came out it was not a darling of NYSE or NASDAQ.
NON SEQUITUR ALERT ... WARNING ... WARNING ... NON SEQUITUR IN THE ABOVE POST you must be ready for bed, your senses are sleepy
While I don't want this to turn into a peeing contest ... I'll just point out (1) that your comment about Enron was totally unrelated to the issue in the thread about the perceived correlation between tax increases and job loss ... hence my cry of "non sequitur" and (2) you picked one stock from one particular interval of time to condemn an entire proposal for saving a social security system that everyone with a functioning brain knows is on the verge of collapse. (Whether privatizing five percent of the system for new participants is the best solution, I'll save for discussing at some later date.) I merely countered by pointing out two stocks, in an attempt to illustrate the wrongfulness of using any one stock (or two) to comment upon an entire economic system. Some stocks rtise; some fall. And generally, over the last 70 years or so, stocks have risen gently despite the crashes of some (Enron) and the spectacular rises of others (Microsoft, Wal-Mart).

I thought the underlying point was obvious and could be easily grasped, but, as you state, perhaps I was too sleepy to understand that some would find the argument too complex to understand.
p2insdca
CITT
My post was an attempt to so how you can not pull one issue out of a hat and lay all the blame on a sitting gov'r. I was also pointing out ( at least in my mind) that every option must be balanced against the trade off's. Raise tax on casinos, or sales tax. On SS you also pulled out 2 that were growth stocks. Yes over the past 70 years money has been made, and peoples lives have been ruined in the market.Without moving too far from the orginal topic, I am amazed that there is no talk of training the American people how to invest correctly in the markets. If you think the looming SS default, lets call it what is is, just think of adding to that with say 1 million baby boomers out of their investments, at age 55
MIB
QUOTE
RazorbackTX:
 
QUOTE
MIB:
Believe it or not, my old man is left of center, to boot.

Something's wrong here.       :confused:    
Oh, how interesting, your old man is a leftie huh? Well then he must be \"insensitive\", \"careless\" and \"always negative.\"
Hmmm...a misplaced modifier on my part. The "something's wrong here" phrase was meant to refer to him collecting the unemployment and SS.
MIB
QUOTE
Torgauer:
I'm not sure it was wise to pass on the withholding. He will have to pay federal income tax on the Unemployment Insurance and probably state tax as well. Federal withholding is 10% with state being in addition to that. Combined, your're talking in the 15-20% range. That can be a sizable piece of change to come up with next April especially for someone living on a fixed income.
Actually, almost all unemployment insurance recipients choose to not have taxes withheld. In fact, when you file your federal income tax returns using the popular software programs (TurboTax, for example), they ask, among other things, if you received unemployment income during the previous year. Then they ask if you had taxes withheld, with their comment being "this is very rare."

According to the Illinois Dept. of Employment Security (IDES), an overwhelming percentage of benefit recipients do not have taxes withheld. This is usually because they don't expect to be on unemployment for a year or more, and if they're not, their regular income jobs will more than provide for the tax they may have to pay (some will just have their refunds reduced).
RazorbackTX
QUOTE
MIB:
 
QUOTE
RazorbackTX:
 
QUOTE
MIB:
Believe it or not, my old man is left of center, to boot.

Something's wrong here.        :confused:    
Oh, how interesting, your old man is a leftie huh? Well then he must be \"insensitive\", \"careless\" and \"always negative.\"
Hmmm...a misplaced modifier on my part. The \"something's wrong here\" phrase was meant to refer to him collecting the unemployment and SS.
How "careless" of you.
GatorJamie
Couldn't the Radical Right anti-casino lobby have had anything to do with this? :confused:
RazorbackTX
QUOTE
GatorJamie:
Couldn't the Radical Right anti-casino lobby have had anything to do with this?    :confused:  
I think MIB needs to have a word with Bill Bennett.
Torgauer
QUOTE
MIB:
Actually, almost all unemployment insurance recipients choose to not have taxes withheld. In fact, when you file your federal income tax returns using the popular software programs (TurboTax, for example), they ask, among other things, if you received unemployment income during the previous year. Then they ask if you had taxes withheld, with their comment being \"this is very rare.\"

According to the Illinois Dept. of Employment Security (IDES), an overwhelming percentage of benefit recipients do not have taxes withheld. This is usually because they don't expect to be on unemployment for a year or more, and if they're not, their regular income jobs will more than provide for the tax they may have to pay (some will just have their refunds reduced).
True enough. In MA only about 15-20% of recipeints opt to have any taxes withheld. This really has more to do with the fact that most are struggling to get by on unemployment benefits which represents a substantial reduction in earnings for most people when compared to their previous earnings (your dad's case is somewhat different). Most simply can't afford to forego the additional money they would lose by opting for withholding. Based on what has been earned to date, anticipated unemployment benefits, taxes already withheld and projected tax obligation, one could probably determine whether it would be necessary.

I wonder how many people would choose to have taxes withheld from their paychecks if they had the option?

It seems that regardless of the state of the economy no one ever anticipates that they'll be unemployed for long. Were it not for the extended benefits currently available, many people here would have run out of unemployment with little prospect of returning to work.

[ July 02, 2003, 06:51 AM: Message edited by: Torgauer ]
MIB
QUOTE
RazorbackTX:
How \"careless\" of you.
I know. Must've been the liberal part of me showing. wink
RazorbackTX
QUOTE
MIB:
 
QUOTE
RazorbackTX:
How \"careless\" of you.
I know. Must've been the liberal part of me showing. wink
It's time for you and PhillyFan to come out of your liberal closets! wink
MIB
QUOTE
RazorbackTX:
It's time for you and PhillyFan to come out of your liberal closets!   wink  
You're probably right. After all, the pile of bullshit in the liberal closet is getting higher by the day. Touche'. wink
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2012 Invision Power Services, Inc.