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buccoman
QUOTE
dinger:
I think the racism charge is unfair. If we don't like Cuban policies, does that make us racist against brown-skinned peoples? When some Americans disagreed with France and Germany before the Iraq invasion, was it because they were mostly white-skinned people there? I think that if every time we have an issue with a country comprised of people of a different race we're charged as racists, we have seriously limited our foreign policy options.

Having said that, I'm sure there are people that are racists against Arabs, but I don't think everyone who thinks this deal should be reviewed more closely fall into that group.
Cuba, France and Germany are countries. "Arab" is an ethnic/racial category. Most Americans think Arabs (and Muslims) are the enemy. You can pretend otherwise but this is the truth. In fact, the UAE is a strong ally of the United States.
HotlantaTarheel
UUUGGGHHH!!! "Arab" is NOT a race! Anthropologically speaking, this is an often misused term. Arabs are simply people who are from Arabia or those who speak Arabic. Iranians are not Arabs, nor are Afghanis, Turks, or Kurds.
dinger
UAE is a country, as well. That's what the problem is, not the whole Arab world. That's the point, Bucco.

And I'm with you, Atlanta, excuse my misstatement. ohmy.gif

[ February 23, 2006, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: dinger ]
ITJock
QUOTE
gadbearr

ITJock, you are the international history buff. Wasn't this what gave the Israeli Army a hand up when the plane and hostages were captured back in Uganda when they raided Entebbe? Didn't Israel have the contract years before to run the airport so they knew the place like the back of their hand? In this case it was a good thing. [/QB]
Damn - I knew if I windowed over one more time there would be something.

Yes, that is essentially correct. An Israeli firm did have the management contract for Entebbe during previous governments - they had actually built the airport.

Now it is late - and I am beat tired and off to bed.

Peace

Rob
buccoman
QUOTE
HotlantaTarheel:
UUUGGGHHH!!! \"Arab\" is NOT a race! Anthropologically speaking, this is an often misused term. Arabs are simply people who are from Arabia or those who speak Arabic. Iranians are not Arabs, nor are Afghanis, Turks, or Kurds.
Hot, all race categories are false if you want to get right down to it... Arabs are an ethnic group, and even a race, when you get to common semantics. I think that even urban anthropologists would debate "Arab" as a racial category...

[ February 23, 2006, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: buccoman ]
DallasUNC
QUOTE
gadbearr:
Has anyone here thought about WHY the UAE even wants to manage our ports? Was it some type of test to see if we would allow them to do so? What is their motivation to manage these ports? We have to realize too that nothing may happen for many years if anything happens at all.

This could be a very long range plan to manage our ports now, gain access to all plans, systems, schematics etc. and then down the road they turn over the management to us or some other country but they still have all the details of these port systems and plans.

ITJock, you are the international history buff. Wasn't this what gave the Israeli Army a hand up when the plane and hostages were captured back in Uganda when they raided Entebbe? Didn't Israel have the contract years before to run the airport so they knew the place like the back of their hand? In this case it was a good thing.
Ummm because they wanted to buy P&O which is a HUGE international company that happens to run some American ports. They manage 21 terminals and have operations in 85 ports worldwide according to a company profile. So the American side of it is small potatoes.

I think you all have this false sense that ports are some mystical forces that nobody knows about and are secret. Thats the main problem with all of this blabber going on. The problem is most AMERICANS have no idea about the ports and shipping. So naturally everyone is going to get all crazy when they find out foreign companies are running the show. Like Ive said before, its nothing new. I will even admit, I have zero knowledge of shipping before I started working in the business.

But there is no secret in our ports. Theres no secret operation that happens that doesnt happen in other countries. Ships come in. Containers and other commodities come off. Trucks and trains take them out. If we're lucky, Customs will inspect some of them. And then the reverse cycle when we export. Thats it. Theres no container gnomes that move stuff to the shipping gremlins.

And on top of that the security at the ports is horrible. Thats what everyone NEEDS to be concerned over. The Coast Guard and Customs has been routinely underfunded, even more so since 9/11. Congress has routinely voted down bills to fund American Customs agents to inspect every container in every foreign port (yeah those same "bipartisans" who dont like this shipping deal all of the sudden).
MIB
Overreaction on parade should be the title of what went on in D.C. this past week.

The Democrats are being awfully cynical over this ports issue, having for some time said that national security wasn't as important as other things. Heck, in the 2004 election they downplayed national security, which was seen by many as Bush's strong point.

The Republicans are treating this thing as another Terry Schiavo moment, falling all over themselves as they run for the cameras to publicly state their concern over and opposition to this deal.

I also find it amusing we have Hillary Clinton, now playing well the role of Xenophobia the Warrior Princess, blasting this deal because it involves "an Arab country." Ah, racial profiling, huh, Hillary?
RazorbackTX
QUOTE
MIB:
The Democrats are being awfully cynical over this ports issue, having for some time said that national security wasn't as important as other things.
Im sure rolleyes.gif you can provide links/examples where Democrats said "that national security wasn't as important as other things."
MIB
Did I quote them? No.

Perhaps you ought to go back to school (then again, you ARE still in high school, correct?)and learn just what the difference is between quoting people and alluding to people's beliefs and opinions.
illini n milwaukee
There's no question about the focus of national security, but the question is......why are we pretty much solely paying the bills for Iraq (which is not cheap) while we are cutting education funding, cutting prescription drug programs, New Orleans is just kinda sittin around in a mess, etc.

There's also very little money coming from the federal govt. to state governments. All that stuff the Bush Administration wants local governments to do...they have no funding for it. Ask how many public universities are getting their normal amount of money from the states because they have to cut every penny out of their budget. Sure, it's an easy solution to cut education funding....but when in your State of the Union speech you are talking about how the U.S. is falling behind in math and science, what a bunch of crap it is.

Iraq needs to be rebuilt. But because of the absolute stubborness of this administration, we're paying the billions of dollars. We didn't want NATO, we didn't want the UN to help rebuild. Great idea. Let's play the tough guy card. Too bad it's only making the United States worse.
fantomas
Dubai Ports World, the UAE company that's so amicable, like Dubai itself as some on here have argued, is now trying to muzzle conservative CNN business host Lou Dobbs. Only he's not going alone with it and neither is CNN, thank God!

Also, it looks like the Coast Guard had serious issues with the UAE-DP World deal, so I guess there were some security concerns, unlike what our president said. But is that a surprise? Remember, he didn't know about it before he did. And he was still going to veto it, even though he really didn't know about it, and it cleared all security concerns, even though it (obviously) didn't. As well as the legally required 45-day review period, even though it (obviously) didn't.

Speaking of him, he's now at 34% approval rating, one of the lowest for any second-term president since Dwight Eisenhower. Only Nixon was lower. 70% of Americans polled, including 58% of self-identified Republicans, also strongly are against the UAE/DP World deal, which involves not 6 ports, but 21.

Now, can anybody find that mysterious quote or quotes or assertions pulled from anywhere other than out of a right-winger's magical hat where Democrats are downplaying "national security"?

[ February 27, 2006, 11:33 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]
millerbeach
Is it wrong for me to admit I now like Nixon better than liar Bush? This administration continues to amaze me. Someday, in some political science text book, this administration will be the glaring example of how not to run a country. The grave of GWB is now so deep I seriously doubt he will ever be able to climb out.
sportinlife
Two interesting things about the distinctions between the sale of USA ports' ownership to a largely UAE-owned company and the sale of a Maryland software company to and Israeli one. The supposed reason for the delay for the Israeli company would be credible if the adminstration were more trustworthy and consistent. And John Snow does not have to have a direct interest in a sale for him to do his buds favors.
RazorbackTX
QUOTE
MIB:
Did I quote them? No.

Of course you didnt but no one expects you to back you up statements, that's a given.

You wrote the Democrats "said ...."
and what I guess you meant to say was that
the Democrats "believe..." although Im sure you couldnt back that up either.

Business as usual for Judge MakeBelieve.
MIB
Once again your lack of education reveals itself. When the word "said" is used without quotes, it is not meant to indicate a quotation or comment spoken by someone; rather, its meant in a more general scope, often referring to a group.
HotlantaTarheel
LOL !! Oh, Judy. I would say that you are shoveling it on thick today, but that B.S. was sooo weak. I mean even weaker than your usual apologist drivel.
thersis
so let me get this straight...

mib is basically using as an argument, "it depends upon what the meaning of 'said' is".

oh, the irony!
MIB
QUOTE
thersis:
so let me get this straight...

mib is basically using as an argument, \"it depends upon what the meaning of 'said' is\".

oh, the irony!
Finally! Someone is at least partially correct in recognizing liberal (Clinton) speak. It took ME to illustrate this, catching y'all in your own hypocrisy.

Delicious. Absolutely delicious. Almost as much as today's paczkis. smile.gif
DallasUNC
Ladies stop arguing over semantics and stick to the topic please.
MIB
Cat fight! Cat fight! eek!
RazorbackTX
Maybe Bush should go around the country on a "60 city tour" and sell this like he did Social Security.
hockeyTom
Thanks for the morning chuckle Raze. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
fantomas
Maybe someone already posted this, but in addition to all its other "wonderful" attributes, Dubai and Dubai Ports World support the Arab League economic boycott of Israel..

I suppose George W. knew about this too, or did he know it before he didn't know, before he knew it again? rolleyes.gif
fantomas
Still more...a Republican asserts that the DP World ports deal was \"never probed for terrorist ties.

On top of this, according to Scripps Howard News Service and Think Progress the West Point Combatting Terrorist Center has a US government-translated 2002 letter from Al Qaeda to UAE on its site.

From Scripps Howard:

QUOTE
We are focusing today on one sentence in a two-page U.S. document officially known as number AFGP-2002-603856. It is a 2002 letter in which al Qaeda says that it has infiltrated United Arab Emirates security and other agencies.

It was a warning siren document that should have raised urgent concerns at the highest level of the U.S. government. President Bush and his entire team initially dozed through the alarm and apparently expected we all would, too. They rushed to approve a bid by Dubai Ports World (a United Arab Emirates company) to buy a British firm that runs six major U.S. ports without publicly addressing the obvious questions the document raises.

The document, a letter from the al Qaeda terrorist organization to the United Arab Emirates government, mainly warns UAE officials to stop arresting al Qaeda's \"Mujahideen sympathizers.\" The second paragraph begins with a potentially chilling boast: \"You are well aware that we have infiltrated your security, censorship, and monetary agencies along with other agencies that should not be mentioned.\"

This document was not exactly a tip top government secret. U.S. officials could find and read it (in its original Arabic or English translation) in the files of various government counter-terrorism agencies. But you can find and read it too. Just check out the Web site of the Combating Terrorism Center at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point and peruse the list of unclassified documents. It is the one that says at the top, \"In the Name of Allah the Most Compassionate and Merciful,\" followed by a warning title, \"Get the Idolaters out of Arab Island (Gulf Countries).\"
MIB
From today's Chicago Sun-Times:

QUOTE

While Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton was ripping President Bush's handling of American ports management, Bill Clinton was pushing for one of his favorite White House aides to be hired to defend the deal. The former president proposed to the United Arab Emirates his onetime press secretary, Joe Lockhart, as Washington spokesman for the UAE-owned company, Dubai Ports World.

The Lockhart deal was never consummated. But the spectacle of the two Clintons going in opposite directions on the port-management question exposed a Democratic fault line. Widespread public reaction against outsourcing control of the ports was seen by Sen. Clinton and other prominent Democrats as a chance to outflank the Republicans on homeland security in this year's elections. But behind the scenes Democrats aligned with the Clinton family were lobbying for the UAE.

The lineup over DP World raises questions about how Bill Clinton's free and easy political manner will impact his wife's prospective presidential campaign for 2008. Highly disciplined Hillary Clinton plays politics by the numbers, following a carefully plotted strategy. Her husband's freewheeling, intuitive style was typified when he tried to secure a well-paid assignment for Lockhart, who heads a Washington-based media firm.

According to well-placed UAE sources, the former president made the suggestion at the very highest level of the oil-rich state. The relationship between him and the UAE is far from casual. The sheikdom has contributed to the Clinton Presidential Library, and brought Clinton to Dubai in 2002 and 2005 for speeches (reportedly at $300,000 apiece). He was there in 2003 to announce a scholarship program for American students traveling to Dubai. Certainly, the emirs would pay the closest attention to any request from the former president. Lockhart did confer with DP World officials, but the UAE sources said Lockhart's asking price was much too high.

UAE sources, contending that Lockhart priced himself out of the market, asserted there was no question but that Clinton had intervened on his behalf and added it was not possible that Lockhart had not known about the intervention. Clinton's press spokesman Jay Carson said, \"I don't know for sure, but I don't know him to generate employment even for someone he likes and admires as much as Joe Lockhart.\"

While Lockhart may have been a bridge too far for DP World, the UAE has reached out to high-priced Washington lobbyists on both sides of the aisle (including Republicans Bob Dole and Vin Weber). Leading the way in putting together the port deal was Jonathan Winer, a Democrat who spent 10 years as Sen. John Kerry's aide. Winer's associate at the Alston & Bird law firm supporting DP World is Kathryn Marks, who was policy director for then Sen. John Edwards.

In contrast to Democratic operatives working behind closed doors are Democratic lawmakers attacking the ports deal. Speaking to the Jewish Community Relations Council at Manhattan's 92nd Street YMCA on Sunday, Sen. Clinton went beyond questions of homeland security. She called the Dubai deal \"emblematic of a larger problem\" of ceding \"some of our fiscal sovereignty.\"

Does that put the Clintons on a collision course? Not exactly. Having failed privately to hook up Lockhart with DP World, the former president publicly turned on his old friends from the UAE last Friday in a speech at Auckland, New Zealand. DP World, he said, \"is from UAE, where some of the money from 9/11 was laundered.\" If Democrats in general are divided publicly and privately on this issue, so is Bill Clinton as an individual.
KeyWest Guy
Republican Senator says the administration broke the law by approving Dubai deal.

QUOTE
\"It's my interpretation that the Byrd Amendment is pretty clear, that if you look at the legislative history, they certainly didn't follow the law that I thought they should have,\" Shelby, R-Ala., said in an interview after a congressional hearing on the Dubai Ports World deal. He referred to the 1992 law that requires extra national security review of some foreign investments.

But this is much ado about nothing, right? rolleyes.gif
Bill W
Regardless of whether the Dubai deal is found to be a sweetheart arrangement or circumvented the required investigation, it's nice to see our two corrupt, anti-democratic parties spurred into action by the anti-Arab, racist voice of the people.

[ March 09, 2006, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: Bill W ]
MIB
Exactly, Bill. It's the mob mentality perfectly illustrated for all to see, and the media is somehow declining to harp on that point.

Oh well. Who needs a bunch of towel-headed, camel jockey wackos running our ports anyway?
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