Posted by Phillyfan:
At least Phillyfan admits his guy has done NOTHING for gays and lesbians during his term.

As for being stabbed in the back - let's talk about Racicot and the RNC - they meet with the HRC, on the sly, and try to make nice talks about gays and the GOP "big tent" and the minute the "Christian" Right calls them on it, they run back like little lap dogs and make sure Ma and Pa Baptist know the GOP still considers us "abnormal." Gee, thanks for your help Racicot!

Not to mention Mr. Ashcroft - who point-blank told a Senator during his confirmation hearing that he would not discriminate against gay people. Once the "Christian" Right learned that not only was DOJ Pride allowed to hold an event last year, but that a senior DOJ official actually spoke, Mr. Ascroft did as he was told and cancelled this year's event. I really think the excuse is wonderful, though - no Presidential Proclamation - Bush doesn't want to "politicize" someone's sexual orientation, which ends up being a political excuse to discriminate.

I say, bring it on Mr. Bush - hey go all the way and lift the Executive Order that prevents discrimination against gays in the federal system, and prevents security clearances from being withheld solely on the basis of sexual orientation (did you know that gay people at the CIA could not even admit they were gay until Clinton's term, and now there's an actual CIA gay group?). I say, let the GOP do everything possible to f*ck us over - so we can see their true colors. I am sick of this wishy-washy, pandering, flip-flopping administration.

This is war people, either you are for us or against us, and it is time for the GOP to shit or get off the pot.

NOW I UNDERSTAND!
Phillyfan cares only about issues that directly effect him!
( this is besides the point that a few months ago he told me he is not a 1 iusse guy)So that make him the perfect republican ie what is in it for me? But I am going to wrap myself in the flag.
Funny isn't that what you ( phillyfan) accused Mr. Clinton of being ie self-serving?
And I will save you the trouble Phillyfan CLINTON SIGNED DOMA

PhillyFan - Let me remind you again, Clinton never supported gay marriage, ever, didnt campaign that he did. Why you keep bringing it up is obvious, you cant defend your parties stand on gay issues so you have to reach back to Clinton. Being the liberal that you are I still dont understand why you always side with the GOP.

Hillary and Santorum in 08!

No, she cant come, her mommy and daddy wont let her out of the closet/undisclosed location.

Just TWO simple questions PhillyFan and you couldn't answer them both.

You DID answer #2 and just as I suspected, you don't give a shit about anybody but your own self which is how I view LCR's and GOP'ers. Only concerned about yourself and the pocketbook.

I really doubt DOMA has any consequences for PhillyFan since it does take two to get married. wink

Before the election, W promised INCLUSION in the "INCLUSIVE" party, so he's a liar just like you frame Clinton.

HornFan, you hit that one on the head.

Self serving PillyFan is right, in more than just politics. I can't stand closet cases like him.

He has to be in the closet or else he'd see that his party would be running from him like he has SARS. "Oh my we might catch it"

You have to admit that if the GOP had it's way we'd all be on some island where they could test the "Good WMP's" that the US has but no country outside of NATO can have.

Actually, IF DOMA prevents a constitutional ammendment I can live with it.

OK i'll bring potato salad AND baked beans to the little pic-nic..... As with any gay pride event, we need some drag queens... horn? can you help? LOL

Well Razor back - I thank you for your courteous response but don't you agree that its better to have gays in BOTH parties than have them taken for granted by any one party? And I agree that they don't get a lot at the Republican table but ya gotta stay in the trenches & fight for change. <-- Copman the optimist

Posted by Phillyfan:

quote:
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I just laugh when you guys get so upset at something this pety... proclaim Bush a hater of gays, when he's done nothing for or agaisnt us. Then spout something about Billy Bob having gay pride month... but yet stabbed you all in the back. blah.
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How can you call the cancelation of a Gay pride event Pety (petty)? It's one thing if you don't have the spine to support yourself or your own life, but to call someone else's act of standing up and being noticed and counted petty is just plain ignorant. You have got to be kidding , right? Surely you would not diminnish the value of being able to stand up and say we belong here!!! Surely you don't say that being able to voice your opinion in the face of oppression has no place and is meaningless. Certainly you are not implying that the celebration of those who have suffered before we came along so that our road would be easier is just not noteworthy.

No, the cancelation of a Pride event is not petty. I am offended that you would or could even say so. Don't patronize those who are much stronger than yourself!

Absolutely, wade n atlanta. How can we honor those who sacrificed for us (without the [few] protections we enjoy today) by belittling something like this?

Maybe GWB is testing us to see how much we care.

Just in case you want to bombard Ashcroft's Office.

HRC letter to Ashcroft

Enjoy!

[ June 10, 2003, 06:45 AM: Message edited by: Jason Cottrell ]

What really irks me is... this is JUNE... a month which is traditionally set aside to commemorate - 'Stonewall'... the beginning of 'Gay Rights'... Our forefathers/foremothers said 'Enough is Enough'...

While I don't enjoy all the rights and privileges of heterosexuals... I can take 'pride' in the fact... that I can and do live my life with dignity and happiness... I owe this in great part - to those who came before me!

For 'some people' to poo-poo this issue is disgusting and disrespectful. Their position reeks of self-hatred... and quite frankly... I am today, contacting the Philadelphia Chapter of the NAAGP (National Association of the Advancement of Gay People) and asking them to rescind some memberships... (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)

wink

And I agree that they don't get a lot at the Republican table but ya gotta stay in the trenches & fight for change. <-- Copman the optimist


OK man, enjoy your crumbs!!

I'm glad that you need a parade or some little gathering to make you feel better about yourself. Then again, i dont need mr ashcroft to justify my beliefs or values.

And as far as "gay pride" goes... I think that harms the cause more than it helps the cause... i.e. because it's only the freaks who get the press. Then the christian right gets to see billy bob in his dress and heels prancing down the street. You never see the normal everyday person. Those are the people who change minds and opinions.

Now, should ashcroft use a lame excuse for cancelling this event? NO, he should stand up and say... i hate gays, rather than play these little games.

Hey, then again... with the budget deficit... do we really want the fed govt paying for these events? Cant they organize their own and everyone chips in 10 bucks for food and such? If you organize a popular event, that everyone goes to.. that proved ashcroft wrong.

Phil,

Your first point is the very reason that gay visibility/pride is important. The more of us who feel safe enough to be out, the more that the mainstream sees that we're just another part of everyday life.

And as for the events, in my expereience it absolutely has not been taxpayer-funded. Everyone brings their tater salad and plastic utensils, just like you mentioned. Some even bring their own porkchops.

While a lot of large corporations fund their own "affinity forums," they're doing so with corporate funds, not public funds.

gj

actually I am not surprised by John Ashcroft's actions. George Bush was against hate crimes legislation that included gays and lesbians while he was governor. It was brought up during the campaign and Gore said he would be for hate crimes legislation if he became President. Hate Crimes legislation was finally passed by his successor Rick Perry, but gays and lesbians were included mainly because of the push from the Byrd family in Jasper, Texas. Mr Byrd died after he was dragged to his death behind a pickup truck by three residents of that city. He died around the same time Matthew Shepard died. I thought it was ironic how many gays and lesbians ignored Mr. Byrd's death and the signifigance of it and yet his family insisted that gays and lesbians be included in hate crimes legislation.There was a movie on Showtime called Jasper that spoke about Mr. Byrd's death and the aftermath of it

According to one news report I read, the group budgeted $600 for this after-hours event. The only taxpayer cost was the use of the building/facilities, which are open to any DOJ group (except, of course, well, you know .... them ). Of course the \"Christian\" Right is crowing about how this is so wonderful, that Ashcrap has stood up for families. I wonder how often those same facilities are used for wedding showers and baby showers, without a Presidential proclamation?

The "Christian" Right is thrilled when anyone thinks that Gay Pride events are full only of freaks and weirdos - that is how they convince people that we don't deserve equal rights. The events the "Christian" Right does attack are precisely those that let straight people know that there are "normal" gays and lesbians. So they don't protest the Gay Pride parade (which incidentally was covered by the Post as a kind of family event - see the Gay Pride thread under the other non-sports related stuff), but they do go after any representation, in fiction or fact, of well-adjusted gay people. Thus the DOJ event must be stopped, because that provides visibility to average gay people; and they are not content with DOJ events, they want every single federal agency to stop reconizing these events, and the groups that put them on.

I noticed that during DC's parade Saturday night that the Federal GLOBE contingent was much smaller than in past years. I don't know if that is because of the rain, or because actions like Ashcroft's have a chilling effect on openly gay people in federal jobs. Maybe the freaks always get the press at Gay Pride parades precisely because they have the least to lose from being recognized and are the most willing to march.

And as for the Gay Pride "freaks" - really, now. Can anything be more embarassing or bizarre than the Shriners with their little cars? How about the Mummers (string bands) - grown men prancing down a street wearing feathers and sequins - and they're supposedly straight?

I also think that it says a great deal about the differences between the two parties and how it treats gays and lesbians when Mr. Cheney's daughter resigns from a Republican Party organizaton trying to make the party more inclusive and Dick Gephardt openly embracing a child of his being gay.

Exactly, that's why ASScroft killed the event at DOJ. Mainstreem folks might see the normal everyday person (who happens to be Gay). ASScroft, and the GOP don't want any minds and opinions changed about Gays...just like PhillyFan.

COPMAN, just exactly what are YOU doing within the party to help Gays? Voting Republican and donating money to the GOP is not exactly my idea of helping Gays, so I'm curious for some details. In fact, what goes on in these little patronizing meetings with the RNC? A lot of back patting about tax cuts with your tea and crumbs?

The Loathing Closet Republicans have never come out with just exactly what has been accomplished with these little clandestine meetings.

CPT, you once again speak the voice of reason. My mom often says "they don't have Straight Pride," to which I respond, "yes, they do - it's called Spring Break or a bachelor party or a country club."

Gawd, they hate it when their logic flaws are exposed...

Horn, the republicans passed DOMA... oh shit wait, that was the pro-gay president who did that, my bad. I guess you dems have been working hard from within your party! I bet you're proud. Hey, at least you got a Month! Your party who fully says they support, well.. until they need votes.. and god knows based no the last few elections... they REALLY need some votes.

The gov(dem) and the house and senate in Texas (both dem).. did a great job of supporting your rights and got rid of that nasty little law on your books... They only had like 20 years of power there, now didnt they?

One shouldnt throw stones in a glass house. Your dem party wont even give you the most basic right in Texas... Hey, you have the WHOLE MONTH OF JUNE TO CELEBRATE! GOOD JOB!

PhillyFan, you never answered question #1.

PS. Why don't you start your very own DOMA thread so you can actually stay on topic?

[ June 10, 2003, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: HornFan ]

1. Is this ACTION by Ashcroft part of Dubya and the GOP's definition of "inclusion"?

Please tell me what legislation W has passed that was anti-gay? This is just basically YOUR perception. W has done nothing anti-gay... and nothing pro-gay. In fact, i remember him saying the sexual orientation has no bearing on anything. i.e. he wouldnt appoint anyone for being gay or not being gay. He has stuck to that positiong. Santorum? well, he handled it the same way he handled the Trent Lott situation. He let the public take care of it. Consistancy.

When he was gov of texas he said he supported the sodomy law.. well, obviously so do you wonderful inclusive dems. So, that is out horn.

In 8 years of your PRO-GAY leadership, you have a month to celebrate... i'm sure you are proud.

As part of the War on Terr ®, the open areas of downtown DC now have cameras monitoring everybody and everything 24 hours a day. Who knows where those tapes end up?

No kidding - saw a big one over the band tent at Pride on Sunday when I was changing out of my stinky uniform. If the lens wasnt wide enough, though, they won't have gotten the full expanse of my a**... eek!

In the US, the legislative branch passes bills. They are then signed into law by the president, or they are vetoed. If the votes are there, the veto can be overridden.

So we are in FULL agreement that the boom (economy) of the 90's was based upon the Republican legislation and billy bob was simply along for the ride?

...and the current shithole economy is the work of the GOP House, GOP Senate and the GOP Whitehouse. Thanks for staying on topic there PhillyFan. You know, there's drugs available for ADD.

Phillyfan, what a load of shit!
1) Only the freaks? So are you saying Dykes on bikes should hide themself? If your so concerned then you should become part of the process....you know change from within...or is that only for the LCR?
Bush has done nothing to hurt Gays? The man claims terrorism is so important that we must sent our young men and women to die in Iraq, BUT allows translators who are needed to be dismissed from thier jobs because they are gay? I thought you said Bush said sex lifes was not an issue? It seems it must be.
Sorry but I have to call bullshi* on you

AHHHHHHHHH, that IS the "dont ask, dont tell" policy... need i remind you who did that?

That would be Sam Nunn, as you should be aware there was a complete melt down whit Mr Clinton tried to repeal the do ask and do discharge.
So are you saying that compares with putting the entire nation at risk because we can not translate interceps fast enough, but we are going to fire qualified people BECAUSE the are gay?-
Please, yes or no

BTW sorry about the spelling error,,, I typed fater that I thought...

sorry there buddy but W is following the legislation of the previous administration.... brought to you by the same folks who brought you DOMA... LOL

So Bush can repeal laws regarding clear cutting, CO2 levels, snowmobiles in the national parks but not Don't ask Don't tell?

speak of co2 levels... open your windows... you need some fresh air there buddy... heh heh

Well, this wasn't necessarily something that hurt gays generally, but it certainly hurt those specific gays (at least those who weren't hired back by the hypocritical military who can't stand a fag in uniform, but have no problem with one in a suit and tie), and it hurt the country.

Bush can't repeal Don't Ask Don't Tell because it was passed into law by homophobic legislators, Republican and Democratic alike. Of course, he could try an Executive Order, but part of the reason Clinton could not do that was because he had not served in the military. If a draft-dodger can't reform the military, then a deserter certainly shouldn't try.

As for what Bush has done to harm gays, let's see:

appointed anti-gay cabinet members?

nominated virulently anti-gay judges?

refused to ensure equal benefits for gay and lesbian federal employees?

refused to support legislation that would guarantee our participation in the national economy?

refused to ensure gay survivors of 9/11 victims would receive due compensation?

refused to call off the "pro-family" attack dogs (Rick Santorum) when they went after innocent gay people?

You're right Phillyfan, he hasn't done anything to hurt gays at all.

bubkus, the legislation was what?

I give you dont ask dont tell, and Doma... you give me... nuttun. Specific laws that were passed.

At Pat Buchanan's insistence, German optics were specified. They're so good that Homeland Security can tell whether the pork chops you were eating were USDA Prime or Choice.

PhillyFan, you give the Dems FAR too much credit for DOMA and Don't Ask. Check out where your own party stands on those issues then and NOW instead of sticking your head in the sand (or more likely in the closet).

Again I ask you a simple yes or no question: Was Ashcroft's cancelling of the Gay Pride Event at the DOJ a part of that "inclusiveness" your party TALKS about (during campaign elections) and when Rick Santorum shows his ass?

A good republican NEVER supports democratic legislation....

PhillyFan,

Again I ask you a simple yes or no question: Was Ashcroft's cancelling of the Gay Pride Event at the DOJ a part of that "inclusiveness" your party TALKS about (during campaign elections) and when Rick Santorum shows his ass?

Inclusive to all, but cowboys fanzzzzz

OH and KKK members... you dems take them all.

[ June 10, 2003, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: PhillyFan ]

I see we Gay folk are just one big joke to you PhillyFan.

Nice!

no just worry about petty little things.

Then why do you bother with all your posts about "petty little things"?

Boy PhillyFan no one can dodge a question like you.

If I remember DOMA was passed buy a GOP house and Senate. Sure Clinton signed it for whatever reason. I make no excuses for what was done. But you have to see that your party is not an innocent bystander here. If there had been a GOP president instead of Bill, it would have been much more, perhaps an amendment.

i'm answering your questions....

Oh and if DOMA ever gets to a Supreme Court challenge, you better believe it will be upheld.

Why, because your precious W will be appointing the Justices, and these justices will not be the "Inclusive" type.

If DOMA affects your life so much, then having GOP appointed Justices will never take it down!