I figured I'd post this here now to nip it in the bud when it comes to the anti-Bush folks here who will undoubtedly scream that Powell's stepping down because: (a) he dislikes Bush, or ( he and Bush can't get along, or © he disagrees with Bush too much, or (d) you fill in any reason that makes Bush look bad, etc.

Believe it or not, many people--I'd even say most people--in such government positions leave for personal reasons. It seems Powell might be another one. Anyone who knows General Powell knows that his wife has never liked him being Secretary of State. Moreover, she was vehemently against his running for president and equally opposed to him even being a vice-presidential candidate. In fact, reports have her threatening divorce if he ever ran for those offices.



The Washington Post reported Monday that Powell and his deputy Richard Armitage have served notice that they will leave their posts on January 21, 2005, assuming that President Bush is re-elected to office.

The deputy State Department spokesman vigorously denied the story on Monday.

"There's no basis to the story at all," said Philip T. Reeker. "There was no such conversation. It must be August."

Powell has refused to discuss his political future. The secretary's standard response is that he serves at the "pleasure of the president," even though he is widely known to have interests other than government service.

"I serve at the pleasure of the president," Powell said last month. "That's the only answer I've ever given to that question, no matter what form it comes in."

The Post reports that Powell's departure is not the result of political disagreements with other administration officials, but because he promised his wife he would leave the high pressure job after one term. Alma Powell's reluctance to give up her husband to public service is thought to be a big reason Powell, the former Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman who gained wide popularity during the Persian Gulf War, never ran for president or even vice-president.

If Powell were to leave at the beginning of a second term, it would not be unusual. Only George Shultz under President Reagan has served more than one term in recent decades. He took office midway through Reagan's first term and then stayed on for the second.

The Post reports that National Security adviser Condoleezza Rice is the leading contender to replace Powell at the State Department should he leave. Rice's aides won't talk about the prospect, and say reports of Powell's departure are speculation.

Rice recently took on a diplomatic mission to the Middle East that was seen by some as an audition for the secretary of state's job. But her candidacy may have been jeopardized by her hand in letting the president use shaky intelligence in his State of the Union address to blame Iraq with shopping for nuclear material. She took personal responsibility for the diplomatic and political blunder last week.

Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz is also mentioned as a possible Powell successor. Putting him in the position would likely end the conflicts between the State Department and the Pentagon that reporters have talked about for the past couple of years.

With Rice and Wolfowitz as the top contenders, the post would certainly be headed in a more conservative direction. Wolfowitz joined Vice President Cheney in pushing for war in Iraq long before Powell concluded diplomatic efforts had failed.

Some reports had the two officials talking about taking out deposed Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks.

[ August 04, 2003, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: MIB ]

This is noteworthy news, yes. Regardless of political affilitation, news analysts and political pundits are going to say that Powell is stepping down because: (a) he dislikes Bush, or ( he and Bush can't get along, or © he disagrees with Bush too much.

This preemptive strike annoys me, I must say. It pisses me off that criticism targeting Bush is reduced or demeaned to "scream"-ing or ranting by "anti-Bush" folks.

Bush is an ASS and I have substantial reason to be upset with a President who has attacked literally EVERY civil rights and personal freedom measure I find important. Yeah, I'm definitely anti-Bush, but that doesn't mean I'm stupid.

From what I read in the paper this morning it seems he promised his wife that he would only serve one term. In the not so distant past I would have been sorry to see him go as he use to be one of the only voices of moderation in the administration.

I have a feeling he'll do just fine whatever his next move is.

If thats true, Powell is a very honorable man, about wanting to serve only one term. Maybe he should talk to George Nethercutt about this! I have a feeling though that Powell is stepping down, because his ideology is more moderate than Shrub's.

Yep. What Raze said.

I think Powell still is a voice of moderation, but he's had to scream for so long to not be drowned out, I'm thinking his voice is a little hoarse.

I like Mr. Powell, and if I remember correctly his wife is not a big fan of him being in politics.
Regarding the "to nip it in the bud when it comes to the anti-Bush folks" I think that is exactly how this admin conducts itself, anyone who disagrees MUST be un american, or a supporter of terrorist. I find that to be a real loss.
I personaly do not like Mr. Bush and think that he is taking this nation in the wrong direction, so my opinion is invalid?

Yes...

Phillyfan! how you doing? good to know that we both discount each others opinions!

As far as possible Sec of State replacements, Rice would be an easier shoe-in than Wolfowitz who is extremely controversial, with his staunch campaign to invade Iraq in the first place.

Powell's the only member of Oil Inc that I actually respect (although I love Rumsfeld in a way that a young boy might love the Joker in his Batman comic books). Rumors of Colin not sticking around after '04 have been circling for months now. Its obvious he doesn't see eye to eye with the administration. The feeling about his departure will be mutual on both sides.

And I agree, everything in the news points to Condi as the replacement. She's a tough woman. And if W loses the '04 election, I can see Condi running for Vice President/Senator/Governor in the not too distant future.

Did I miss the posts that he was referring too?
"Undoubtedly"

It's "obvious" because you say so, right? Thank you for confirming what I said about the Left's opinion of Powell's departure (if it's even true, of course).

Many people in presidential administrations leave due to philosophical disagreements with their boss--the president. Even your sainted Clinton, who could never do wrong in the eyes of the Left, had numerous people who departed because of disagreements. Powell, if he does leave, is not doing so because of disagreements. In actuality, he and Bush highly respect each other. Moreover, Powell has a deep and profound admiration for the entire Bush family. His departure is solely due to his wife's wishes.

She is a formidable woman who never wanted him to get involved with government work after his military retirement, and who can blame her? Regardless of who's in office, most of such government work sucks.

Isn't this the same guy who many on the right were saying he is too soft? and wasn't some on the right blaming him for the U.N. not voting to go to war?
I am amazed that who support Mr. Bush would imply that those on the left will _________ while ignoring those on the right who want Powell out

Newsflash for MIB:

Guess what? Powell has been at odds with many in the administration. I was watching MSNBC last night where they were discussing Powell and its not the "left" who is barking about this, all the Powell supporters were saying the same thing. All of the "left" went on and on about how great he was. Its your neocon buddies who want him out.

Methinks you're a bit too kneejerk.
Relax.

[ August 05, 2003, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: RazorbackTX ]

[ August 05, 2003, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: RazorbackTX ]

Don't mean to drag this topic too far off course, but that's wrong -- there are major issues on which the Left disagreed with Clinton -- in fact, IMHO, most of the non-Whitewater criticism of his Administration (in other words, valid criticism of real issues that affect everyday Americans) came from the Left (people far more concerned about the papers and legislation on top of his desk rather than salivating to know who was under it):

welfare reform
free trade (NAFTA, GATT)
"the era of big government is over"
DOMA (don't mean to bring that one up again!)
flip-flops on health care reform and gays in the military

[ August 05, 2003, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: DCBucky ]

While I have not seen any formal analysis, I believe the Secretary of State role has had the highest turnover in the past 50 years or so. It is a Cabinet position that is probably the most exhausting on many fronts. All of the international travel, understanding all of the cultures/customs, dealing with issues that impact large segments of the world population, etc. I am sure that Secretary Powell is a bit weary, and would like a break. (Like so many of his predecessors.)

However, it would be silly for anyone to try and say that the administration's issues with Secretary Powell are not playing a role. Just like it is silly to try and say that the Democrats (there are more parties on the "left" than just the Democrats) are the ones who will be trying to make a big deal out of this. The far-right Republicans are thrilled that the Secretary may be vacating his post (of course, that is only if there is not a Democratic President and Cabinet in place at that time). He has been the voice of moderation and a thorn in their sides.

While all SOS's get wore out, Mr. Powell has faced a much stiffer challenge than most. He deserves to take a break and get out from the lunacy that is his boss' Presidency.

Well said, Charlie!! I agree with you on all fronts.

If Powell had some huge, agonizing disagreement with the President, why doesn't he quit today? He could. There's nothing stopping him.

Damn, you guys "on the right" (as MIB would say) never cease to amaze me. We basically agree with the fact that Powell is a good guy, hate to see him go...blah blah blah and you guys are so kneejerk defensive, relax.

Yes there is. His sense of duty.

I agree Powell has a sense of duty. I think his sense of honor probably exceeds it, though. I'm sure he hasn't agreed with every admin policy, but I do think if there was a major, substantive issue that he was in complete disagreement with he would (have) quit immediately.

Powell might be a good guy, but I never said I would hate to see him go. But whatever. This is obviously just some phony "story" drummed up by bored reporters who don't have anything better to do because it's August in DC. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz...

The one thing that has been largely ignored is the FACT that Powell has little day to day contact with Bush and communicates with him on a mostly formal basis. Also, by many accounts his influence is marginal, at best.

I think the guy wants to get out and I suspect he has communicated this fact to the President's "Men". Their denial is another example of the Bush Adminstrations's lack of credibility. The wife issue is a convenient excuse -- if she was really that adament about him being out of government there is NO way that he would have accepted the Secretary of State nomination.

Maybe her sense of duty is as strong as her husband's?

First of all, don't insult me by telling me I've got neocon buddies. I'm fiercely independent and love critiquing both sides of the aisle. I'll call either the Left or the Right on the carpet.

Secondly, methinks it's your panties that are a bit too tight.

Powell denied the story. It wasn't just some random administration spokesmodel.

And Secretary Powell's explanation sounded more credible than the original Washington Post story. Powell's denial was premised on the idea that he could not be an effective Secretary of State (esp. in these times) as an 18-month lame duck. And it also made no sense that the "resignation" was relayed through a deputy and not directly by Powell to the President.

So move along folks. Nothing to see here. There's no story to this story.

By the way, I like Powell. And I like him at State (and keep him away from domestic matters where his liberal agenda could be dangerous wink ). I think the creative tension from the conflicting opinions given to the President by Secretaries Powell and Rumsfeld is why the Bush Administration continues to demonstrate excellence and effectiveness in matters relating to defense, security and diplomacy.

Edited to correct major syntactical error in original post.

[ August 05, 2003, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: Charlie in the Trees ]

I hate to see him go, too. I believe he's well-suited for the SOS job, one which is practically impossible to do, though, without pissing SOMEone off in the world. I'd compare it to standing between two 7-year-olds while holding one ice cream cone.

I WOULD bet the farm, however, that had Powell been a conservative, you guys "on the Left" would be praising his departure. After all, your "sincerity" is exceeded only by your spitefulness.

If you know Mrs. Powell, you'd know that this is no excuse. It is well-known in political circles that she was so against him running for president and vice-president that she told him she'd consider divorce. In private discussions, the primary concern of hers involved her husband's life. I won't say anything more than that.

Chuck, I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. I don't like when everyone in an administration is a lackey or a yes-man. Dissent, disagreement, debate--it's all healthy (helloooo to those of you "on the right" who have conniption fits when someone opooses Bush or the war, for example).

I'm personally opposed to dissent, disagreement and debate.

Wow. What ostensibly started as a thread to have a rational discussion about the reasons Powell may or may not return to his Cabinet position has been reduced to...name-calling!

"Spiteful" ???

Gee, thanks MIB. That sure does make me want to consider your point of view.

William, I'm personally opposed to your opposition.

Maybe they should all head down to Crawford and watch the idiot-in-chief cut down weeds for a month.

It would be far more interesting than this story...

From what I heard, Powell has denied it, and is angry, but is even more angry that whover started it has involved his wife.

The same article, (I'm not sure if it was Salon.com or thedrudgereport) said that it was most probably planted by the Rumfeld/Wolfie/Condi crowd who want him out.

And the scariest?

The 3 top contenders for his replacement.

1 Condeleeza Rice
2 Paul Wolfowitz
3 Newt Gringrich!!!! eek!

Lord almighty. If that one gets the job, democracy is totally screwed.

I don't think anyone's mentioned Newt Gingrich for that job ... except Newt Gingrich.

Whats Mr Family Values on now, about his 4th or 5th wife?