How Bobster? please explain how these jobs are saved.

GM now has 300 million to produce the vehicle you wish. How are these jobs saved?

Or should i just link you to the Economics 101 class you clearly should take before you look worse than you already do when you try to "think" about these things.

[ June 07, 2005, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: PhillyFan ]

Can't we just send these 25K people to community college...during the debates, that's what W said would help people who get laid off...



[ June 07, 2005, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: dfwAggie99 ]

Great Idea DFW, these people can learn other skills, move on and perhaps up in the job market to gain more stability.

Perhaps you people might even understand a little about economics and such, would not be such a bad. I'll throw in a lil business 101 as a key class for you lefties to take.

Thats what PF did at NAUCC.

How are the Jack-in-the-box's at the Univ of Ark? Nevermind...

In other news, looks like the bobster's head is exploding from trying to think.

[ June 07, 2005, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: PhillyFan ]

PhillyFan, even in your haze of convoluted thinking, how can you possibly believe the elimination of 25,000 jobs by the world's largest auto maker is a good thing? Obviously, it is not you losing a job. I understand how this corporation could have become bloated, but Bobby did bring up an excellent point...why can't Bush work with GM and develop alternative fueled vehicles? Why, it may piss off his Arab friends if we developed something that doesn't use their product.

Dude...your obsession with me is getting a bit creepy.

Bobster, the only “obsession” anyone has for you is that they would like you to be more medicated or a little more educated or posting something on sports.

I’ll ask the question again, You said it’s better for the gov’t to give GM the 300 million they would have spent in Iraq to build some new supercar. How does that save these 25k in jobs?

Fact is you can’t because you simply look at the pretty little article title without knowing/understanding what it means. Then somehow try to pin something on W, turn it into a gov’t problem, and have ZERO understanding of business or economics. I realize you enjoy getting that post count up. Can’t you at least try to understand what it is you are posting?

Perhaps instead of just linking an article you should read it fully. Maybe take some notes with questions of what you don’t understand. Try visiting Yahoo finance. Visit your local library and ask for help.

Do you want me to read my earlier response to you? Based on some of the responses to it, I can tell others have read it. Geez...

PhillyFan's going to Iraq to help build a new supercar? Thats great!

I'd be more than happy to buy him a one-way ticket to get there!

You said by merely giving them this 300 mil in gravy people dont lose jobs.

How does that work? Please explain.

READ the article again, how are the jobs saved via your idea?

You addressed none of these... you just said give them the money and have them build a car.

Prez. Gasman meets with the head of GM, hears their ideas concerning fuel-alternative vehicles, offers to back the plan if it puts Americans to work.

Bobster, these are MANUFACTURING JOBS.

What are they expected to do while they are "creating" the vehicle of your dreams?

The only way your plan makes sense is if the govt pays them to make cars no one is buying, or they sit around the break room all day.

You have zero concept of business. ZERO.

Any problems GM has gotten into with gas prices is their own fault. It's the UAW and Detriot for always spending millions so gas standards are NOT lowered.

The UAW and the auto industry lobbied REPUBLICANS to vote against higher fuel efficiency. And it worked.

Are you shitting me? the UAW has the repubs in their pocket?

I feel sorry for some of you guys.

The Democrats are the ones that pushed the highering the standard emissions in the Congress. And Republicans have voted the issue down on multiple occassions. If the UAW is going to lobby someone it will be the Republicans cause obviously they are more persuaded on the issue.

What about the 60-mid 90's?

PhillyFan, better up the dose. You are making less and less sense with each new post.

Job cuts up 35% in June...
When is W getting on the phone with OPEC to stop rising oil prices? Oil costs are now contributing to lost U.S. jobs! He said he would do that when he was debating Al Gore in 2000...why is he not doing it? Oh, yeah...he's a liar and America doesn't care...I forgot.

John Kerry had a plan to stop outsourcing, W doesn't care.
CNN Story

I thought most of the GM jobs were via attrition - early retirement, and the non-replacing of jobs being lost. True?

LXN

Well - thats a LOT of ATTRITION at a time when GM began to ship cars from CHINA last week - from three new factories where the Chinese Gov't has agreed to pay the labor costs for the next 20 years in exchange for the engeineering and technology benefits.

Oh - you didn't know your new GM car was being made in China???.... just sing the chorus a little louder...

"...BASEBALL, HOT DOGS, APPLE PIE, AND CHEVROLET"

If I had read Sun Tzu, and I were a more suspicious person I would be crying TREASON!

R

So is building a toyota, nissan, honda in america outsourcing?

Of course it is - have you been in Japan i n the last couple decades? America is CHEAP.

I have a couple friends in Japan, they have six kids. My friend can bring over the entire family, plus gran and gramp, spend the entire week at a suite in the Grand Floridian at Disneyworld - spend, spend, spend, and it is still cheaper than their living expenses staying at home in Tokyo.

Of course we are their outsourcing...
But their economy has been weird for over 20 years.

If you do not know this, I assure you that the heads of Mitsui, Mitsubishi, Dai Ichi Kangyo, Sumitomo, Sanwa, and Fuyo all know it. They at least have read Sun Tzu.

They view the US as a poor drunken relation intend upon our own self destruction.

R

[ July 06, 2005, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: ITJock ]

Maybe you should sign up for a Business 101 class at your local community college and find out.

I did... and come to find out...

2 tacos are still 99 cents at the local jack-in-the-box.

So we should probably use the liberal, what I call "Wal-Mart" logic, that being that it's much better to not build these cars in America--outsourcing as you so incorrectly call it--and to put thousands of Americans out of work. After all, better to be unemployed due to assbackward principles than to have a job, right?

But these are crap jobs, PF. People working at the Jack-in-the-Boxes are making what--6, 7 bucks an hour? We should close all the Jack-in-the-Boxes then. Better to be not working at one of these lowlife jobs than to be earning a paycheck, right?

I'd say that's about the same pay as those call center jobs that are going to india.

MIB - are you drinking again? I don't believe I said that ANYWHERE; nor did I come close to implying it. I really don't follow your logic - or even your concept of exception to what I stated.

Further you seem to have me pegged as a liberal. I am I suppose on many social issues - and , truthfully when compared to the right wing christian conservative nut cases that now rule my beloved party, I am a polar opposite. Not because I totally disagre with them on all issues, but because I abhor their ethics, morals, and exclusionary rhetoric.

If you have ever read ANYTHING that I have written, then you would know that I am CONSTANTLY decrying this administrations total abandonement of the US technology industry, and its willingness to look the other way as American Engeineering and Science are being given away at pennies on the $1000 to anyone who can steal them, or pay enough to greedy corporate officers.

But then I guess people who don't ever have to worry about jobs, as they live on a lifetime dole for favors rendered to political hacks, do not really have to worry about the rest of us. It must be easy to keep taking cheap misguided shots from behind a bullet proof bench.

Rob

[ July 06, 2005, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: ITJock ]

I don't know about you - but those 'call center jobs ' avg $15 / hr starting in the US vs , $2 / hr in India...

If you think its easy keeping ahead of the curve when your competition charges 1/10th of what you can pay...

R

geez in what city are you talking about? I highly doubt "call center" jobs pay that much in my area.

"Hi thanks for calling MCI, this is bobster can i help you"

Sorry -

I do stand corrected - I was not refering to unskilled - I was refering to skilled computer call center people (MCDST, MCSE, A+, etc). I should have specified.

Although the salaries for those people have been dropping through the floor recently too.

R

[ July 06, 2005, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: ITJock ]

MIB & PhillyFan, let me pose a question...have either of you ever been unemployed in your adult life? I really don't think you ever have, considering your flip comments toward unemployment. We are talking about people's livelyhood here. Can you imagine the pain and angst of losing a job and having a family to support? This scenerio is being repeated over and over again in this country. Unfortunately, our leader is not focused on the issues of citizens of America. I sure hope the both of you are living off of rock-solid pensions.

As usual, you are wrong.. just last year. What is your point? These things happen, you just pick yourself up and move on. I did.

The key is educate yourself to make yourself more marketable. Or have skills that are often needed. Don't take a bad job and wait for the right one.

Next question.

[ July 06, 2005, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: PhillyFan ]

How can I be wrong? I simply asked you a question. Poor PhillyFan, so defensive. Then you must know how it feels to be without gainful employment. Too bad you didn't use your time off to hone your reading and writing skills. Perhaps then you would have realized I was simply asking you a question. I hear the summer session of remedial English is about to begin at your local community college. I'm willing to pop for tuition only because I am tired of slugging through your tedious posts.

I have nothing to be defensive about because i've worked for everything I own. I worked for my education. I worked to find a job after layoffs. I worked to find a good job after the layoff.

Forgive me for encouraging others to work hard to get what they want instead of waiting for pity or a handout.

Well a huge hooray for you PhillyFan. Do you want an award for being a responsible citizen? You frequently make cracks about others' knowledge of economics, politics and philosophy, yet you can't seem to even answer a simple question without high drama debate. How did you feel when you became unemployed? Were you happy? I doubt it. The reason I even posed the question was due to you poor attitude about those who have lost or are going to lose their job due to the inept actions and lack of domestic focus of this administration. There are a lot of folks in this nation that have not had all the opportunity afforded to you, PhillyFan. Have a little compassion for those in a different boat than yours.

I don't imagine there are very many people left in the US who have never been through the heart ache of being fired or laid off at some point in their lives during the past 25 years.

There are huge shifts in the paradigm of our economy.

Since the advent of the industrial revolution, we have known that it no longer took one person to do 1 unit worth of work; today a single person can do many units of work that formally required dozens of laborers. What then are those laborers to do for employment and livelihood?

The traditional American/Capitalist answer has been to create new jobs by making the 'excess workers' compete viciously in creating new technologies and industries to market to the wider world that does not have them.

Today we live in a world suddenly almost leveled technologically. Technology is now portable. You can take the same technology devices and industry and set them up just about anywhere. Retraining and labor costs to be born by your happy local government in most of the world. I suggest that there is far more economic fluidity in the world than at any other point in history.

As a society, we are going to have to develop attitudes and mechanisms to deal with the new realities. I think some of those things include far more serious treatment of patents, intellectual property, Engineering, Science, and Technology. We as a society are going to have to get serious about EDUCATION (especially in E, S, & T) and retraining for all the people who will certainly be displaced (The average American worker today switch’s careers/industries 5.4 times throughout their work life: they spend more than 4+ years on average unemployed during those times) without making those people bankrupts and destroying their families.

We need to get serious about our national savings rate, reduce credit and spending, and institute portable pension investments (which need much more encouragement) health, old age, and safety net benefits for those who do fall behind. We are going to have to start calling a spade a spade and cut down on political rhetoric in fixing SS (It was never meant to be the sole retirement strategy, it was meant to be PART of a safety net of insurance).

We need to get serious about the deficit and reduce our national debt.

In short – we need some serious people in politics working on real solutions. We do not need the political hacks we have been electing for the last 30 years (of either party). We need smart people willing to come up with creative solutions to real problems. We don’t need to have politicians spouting rhetoric and idealistic nonsense trying to divide the American people with scare tactics. The last thing we need is for our political leaders to convince themselves and the American people to try to return to a Shangri La of American society, values, and economic stability which never existed for the majority of our citizens the first time round.

We should not be electing career politicians and failed Lawyers to national public offices. Instead, we should be electing Teachers, Cops, Doctors, Nurses, Engineers, Tech geeks, Construction Foremen, Accountants, Farmers, etc. We do not need people who have failed at every other job in their lives that they have undertaken before they went into politics.

We need genuine campaign finance reform and an end to soft money.

The last thing we should be doing is increasing the level of backbiting, discord, and campaign smears which so characterize our current political climate of scaring the voters into making reactionary decisions.

I have a proposition – start at home with that smiling congressman you think serves your interest alone. Don’t we need people who will serve AMERICA, rather than just bring home the pork? Next election, throw them ALL out of office.

Keep throwing them out until we get some real solutions proposed instead of ideological nonsense.

Keep throwing them out until your insurance, health, and pension benefits are as good as theirs are.

R

[ July 07, 2005, 05:38 AM: Message edited by: ITJock ]

Yes, also excuse him for cheerleading a war he, himself, won't go fight.