http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:Bx6e3...ang_en&ie=UTF-8


An unholy alliance of Immigration
and Naturalization (INS) agents, vigilante ranchers and racist groups are
detaining, terrorizing and increasingly, shooting migrant workers in what
media reports describe as organized "sport hunts". Three workers have been
killed and seven wounded since May.

- - - - -

I once worked for a Spanish-American man (American citizen, born in Spain of Spanish parents) who is federal staff monitoring, and trying to prevent, murders of Mexicans at the border.

HORRIFYING! Why is there not more media coverage of this? If this is true, and if THREE PEOPLE have been KILLED and seven have been wounded, and if government agents and white supremacists are involved, I definitely there definitely should be serious coverage of this. Bluebird, do you have any other links or proof of this?

This has been going on for years.....It is an ongoing phenomenon. People like my former boss either work on federal assignment, or volunteer to help patrol the SW border.

I will look for more links, but you'd probably do better by going to the Library and initiating some searches of Federal response to these tragedies.

Comrades:

I have read the bulletin, but I could not find any references to any newspaper sources.

The bulletin has inflammatory language, so I assume that it is written by one of the advocates of immigrant rights. How do they know that the KKK is involved? Did anyone see burning crosses or men dressed up in white along the border?

It is possible that the border patrol may shoot at certain individuals, if they are sneaking over the border. What do you expect for the border patrol to do? Yell "STOP"?

The writer may have raised a good point, but their inflammatory language sharply decreases their credibility. This is the problem with many advocates of minorities.

Mikestead

[quote]Originally posted by mikestead:
The bulletin has inflammatory language, so I assume that it is written by one of the advocates of immigrant rights. How do they know that the KKK is involved? Did anyone see burning crosses or men dressed up in white along the border?

---

Obviously, ALL YOU DID was read the bulletin, without even considering that, until you can produce more believable text, you are rejected its autority from your PERSONAL point of view.

Regardless of what you consider "inflammatory language", I ACTUALLY WORKED under a Federal employee whose job included helping to monitor the border in order to catch snipers, KNOWN as being members of the KKK (posssibly in addition to other groups), in the act(s) of murdering Mexicans at the border.

The least you could do, understanding that your preference in denying public record can be interpreted as racist (I have attempted to assume that you care on this one), is to support your claims with corroboration.

If you notice, the bulletin is dated 7 Jun 2000. This murdering of Mexican people, as I informed this thread in an above post, has been going on for several years:

1/It had to have been reported as a problem
2/Federal must have needed some time to coordinate the proper authorities and personnel.
3/By June 2000, the Federal Government had already started documenting murders.
4/The bulletin clearly states that the matter is an ONGOING concern and further developments are on the way.

I am not Mexican or Chicano; nevertheless, the truth is the truth, and to deny the murder of Mexicans at the border without credible proof is racist, if not xenophobic.

BTW, it certainly isn't nationalistic (just in case you were wondering).

I wonder if you would have posted if there were Finnish or Lithuanians being targeted.....

[ November 21, 2002: Message edited by: bluebird48234 ]

Whoa, Bluebird, calm yourself! Stop throwing the "R" word around so loosely and laying on the personal attacks. Just because someone expresses a little caution in checking sources other than your own personal recollection isn't cause for you or anyone else to jump all over him - or to bait others for not saying "how high" whenever you say "jump!" - let alone not anticipating your start(le).

I agree with MS on inflammatory hype being a hallmark of leftist advocacy groups, so he's not being unreasonable in that department either, as any reading of their silly little tracts will confirm. If murders are in fact being committed, I have confidence in our Justice Dep't to investigate and prosecute them, as they are doing by your own admission and as your own experience seems to confirm. What made you leave that line of work, BTW?

Finally, I haven't seen an influx of Finns or Lithuanians crossing into the US, let alone abusing our generous social services "safety net" (cf. hammock) once they're here. What did the Balts ever do to you to deserve such ("racist," friend?) scorn?

[quote]Originally posted by gmginsfo:
I agree with MS on inflammatory hype being a hallmark of leftist advocacy groups, so he's not being unreasonable in that department either, as any reading of their silly little tracts will confirm. If murders are in fact being committed, I have confidence in our Justice Dep't to investigate and prosecute them, as they are doing by your own admission and as your own experience seems to confirm. What made you leave that line of work, BTW?

---

Inflammatory language is hardly a characteristic of the left alone; right-wingers issue extremely harsh, overblown language all the time, including against homosexuals, people of color, the poor, Democrats, union members, single women, and so forth. The new Majority Leader, Trent Lott, like Tom DeLay, is well known for overblown rhetoric.

Actually, there are quite a few illegal Europeans in this country; here in New Jersey and New York there are thousands of illegal Russians, Irish, Italians, Portuguese, etc. There is no outcry. None. I am pro-immigration, and I don't mind my tax dollars helping to underwrite the dreams of people who want to live here and contribute to American society, whether they come from the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Egypt, Australia, Finland, or wherever. (I also don't mind them going to support a safety net for poor American citizens, yet I do object to underwriting theft by U.S. corporations and the wealthy.) But really, there is ZERO outcry over European illegal immigrants.

The comment about advocates "for minorities" treads a dangerous line. I assume he would also state this for "advocates for anti-abortion policies," advocates for "anti-immigration," advocates for "flat taxes," and other positions. Many minorities do have valid beefs with what is happening in this country; U.S. history, from slavery to the decades long apartheid system called "Jim Crow" to continued redlining, etc.--provides more than enough examples.

I will say this... I was supposed to go to Mexico in Janurary, but my friend an illegal immigrant is scared! So we aren't going! Let it be known b4 the 9/11 attack, Our President Bush, and Mexico's president Fox were planning an immigration immunity! Which would have let Mexican's working here free to travel back to their homeland, and get back w/ no problems! That is how it should be...IMHO

[quote]Originally posted by gmginsfo:
Whoa, Bluebird, calm yourself! Stop throwing the "R" word around so loosely and laying on the personal attacks. Just because someone expresses a little caution in checking sources other than your own personal recollection isn't cause for you or anyone else to jump all over him - or to bait others for not saying "how high" whenever you say "jump!" - let alone not anticipating your start(le).

I agree with MS on inflammatory hype being a hallmark of leftist advocacy groups, so he's not being unreasonable in that department either, as any reading of their silly little tracts will confirm. If murders are in fact being committed, I have confidence in our Justice Dep't to investigate and prosecute them, as they are doing by your own admission and as your own experience seems to confirm. What made you leave that line of work, BTW?

Finally, I haven't seen an influx of Finns or Lithuanians crossing into the US, let alone abusing our generous social services "safety net" (cf. hammock) once they're here. What did the Balts ever do to you to deserve such ("racist," friend?) scorn?

---

Try this on some unsupecting 6th graders.....you might get a rise out of THEM.

Did anybody notice this story is from 2000?

Bluebird, Kinda like your bait/post of 11-21-02 re: Big Brothers, eh? At least I didn't shy from engaging the issue or spin out of control into Never Never Land. Love your consistency and arguing on the facts - NOT! Maybe you DO need some time in a warmer clime.

[ November 22, 2002: Message edited by: gmginsfo ]

[quote]Originally posted by gmginsfo:
Bluebird, Kinda like your bait/post of 11-21-02 re: Big Brothers, eh? At least I didn't shy from engaging the issue or spin out of control into Never Never Land. Love your consistency and arguing on the facts - NOT! Maybe you DO need some time in a warmer clime.

[ November 22, 2002: Message edited by: gmginsfo ]

---

Right.....

[quote]Originally posted by William1865:
Did anybody notice this story is from 2000?

---

See my post above that includes "7 Jun 2000".

The date has been typed there.

Thank God the Nicaragua Solidarity Network of Greater New York (a hornets nest of ex-Sandinistas, socialists, communists and other far-left radicals) has managed to get out the word on this "unholy alliance" which managed to kill three Mexicans.

This post was peppered with inflammatory language and clearly prejudiced reportage. Only someone sharing the biased views expressed could have failed to see this.

I don't doubt that Mexicans are killed crossing the border illegally. I'll even allow that a small number might even be killed by kooks such as those referenced in the article. Many, many, many more drown, die of dehydration in the desert, suffocate in freight cars and trucks, die in road accidents while fleeing border patrol agents, and are murdered by cross-border smugglers and drug traffickers, to reference just a few of the scenarios reported in our legitimate press daily.

The solution to all of these problems is to crack down on illegal immigration. Every nation has the right to maintain the integrity of its borders. The US government has been far too lax in this regard, leading to all of the problems discussed in this thread. Individuals attempting to cross the border illegally should be intercepted by border patrol agents. Those attempting to flee should be apprehended. To accomplish this with a minimum of violence and death will require substantially more resources dedicated to the effort. I fully support augmentation of those resources.

[quote]Originally posted by Torgauer:
Thank God the Nicaragua Solidarity Network of Greater New York (a hornets nest of ex-Sandinistas, socialists, communists and other far-left radicals) has managed to get out the word on this "unholy alliance" which managed to kill three Mexicans.

This post was peppered with inflammatory language and clearly prejudiced reportage. Only someone sharing the biased views expressed could have failed to see this.

I don't doubt that Mexicans are killed crossing the border illegally. I'll even allow that a small number might even be killed by kooks such as those referenced in the article. Many, many, many more drown, die of dehydration in the desert, suffocate in freight cars and trucks, die in road accidents while fleeing border patrol agents, and are murdered by cross-border smugglers and drug traffickers, to reference just a few of the scenarios reported in our legitimate press daily.

The solution to all of these problems is to crack down on illegal immigration. Every nation has the right to maintain the integrity of its borders. The US government has been far too lax in this regard, leading to all of the problems discussed in this thread. Individuals attempting to cross the border illegally should be intercepted by border patrol agents. Those attempting to flee should be apprehended. To accomplish this with a minimum of violence and death will require substantially more resources dedicated to the effort. I fully support augmentation of those resources.

---

Amen to that.

BB, if this is an ongoing problem, why not post a more recent account of it?

Also, I did not notice your mentioning of the 2000 dateline because I stopped reading that post after you played the racism card. You could have started your original post with, "Hey, I know this is going on three years old, but still . . . " or something like that.

[ November 22, 2002: Message edited by: William1865 ]

[quote]Originally posted by William1865:
BB, if this is an ongoing problem, why not post a more recent account of it?

Also, I did not notice your mentioning of the 2000 dateline because I stopped reading that post after you played the racism card. You could have started your original post with, "Hey, I know this is going on three years old, but still . . . " or something like that.

[ November 22, 2002: Message edited by: William1865 ]

---

You're absolutely right: I could have - but I chose not to.

Please explain to me, in the context of this thread, what you mean by "playing the racism card".

- - - - -

Did you think that I missed that you couldn't care less about murdered Mexicans?

Even if the Republicans could drink heavily enough in one session to pass a law terminating Mexican immigration, they wouldn't dare end our dear American legacy (since the 1920's) of exploitative labor, now would they? Translation: Amen to WHAT?!?

[ November 22, 2002: Message edited by: bluebird48234 ]

[quote]Originally posted by bluebird48234:



You're absolutely right: I could have - but I chose not to.

Please explain to me, in the context of this thread, what you mean by "playing the racism card".

- - - - -

Did you think that I missed that you couldn't care less about murdered Mexicans?

Even if the Republicans could drink heavily enough in one session to pass a law terminating Mexican immigration, they wouldn't dare end our dear American legacy (since the 1920's) of exploitative labor, now would they? Translation: Amen to WHAT?!?

[ November 22, 2002: Message edited by: bluebird48234 ]

---

You seem to be a very angry bird.

KKK Snipers? That sounds like something Hitler would do!!!!

[quote]Originally posted by William1865:


You seem to be a very angry bird.

---

Yeah, you would be, too, if someone in a community you were a part of made race-tinged jokes about you; "crashed" a number of your threads, exclusively, with kindergarten-level comments; and pampered a chip on his shoulder for you!!

- - - - -

Why haven't you ever answered any of the questions that I have posed to you in my responses? I can't fantasize that I would take this personally - but, if you only do it to me, what am I supposed to think?

Even if you don't agree with something I post, it seems that you could respect me as a fellow Outsports member and these threads enough to engage in its activities in civil fashion. Not EVER trying to be your friend, but sometimes it looks like you're happy to instigate animosity, when:

*You do not work as an active Republican;

*You have never claimed being sufficiently wealthy enough to be a gleeful oppressor of opportunity for all hard-working Americans;

*You do not represent the official Republican Party in any way; and,

*You seem to feel that "the Republican way" will save you from "the American way", which includes diversity and getting along with others who don't agree with you (am I getting angry, yet?)

Or it is that I threaten your sense of superiority?


NB: Your abusive ridicule of me is NOT APPRECIATED, has NOT BEEN SOLICITED, and is UNWANTED.

[ November 22, 2002: Message edited by: bluebird48234 ]

[quote]Originally posted by William1865:
KKK Snipers? That sounds like something Hitler would do!!!!

---

Thanks for reminding me that the Holocaust (which, BTW, exterminated the lives [physical, financial, social, and mental] of thousands of LGBT persons) remains such a joke to you (and others who believe as you do) that you can throw it around frivolously, match it with "Hitlery" Clinton (slightly funny, but way-off as a serious comparison), and throw it at subjects a mile away from relevancy.


- - - - -

BTW, Are you an Aryan gay man? If you're not, then I have some extra preparation to do before I show up at any Republican functions where it seems I'll be faced your types of comments and references.

[ November 22, 2002: Message edited by: bluebird48234 ]

[quote]Originally posted by bluebird48234:


Thanks for reminding me that the Holocaust (which, BTW, exterminated the lives [physical, financial, social, and mental] of thousands of LGBT persons) remains such a joke to you (and others who believe as you do) that you can throw it around frivolously, match it with "Hitlery" Clinton (slightly funny, but way-off as a serious comparison), and throw it at subjects a mile away from relevancy.[ November 22, 2002: Message edited by: bluebird48234 ]

---

Birdy, since you usually have such a keen sense of humor, I'm surprised you didn't get the Hitler reference. I mentioned Hitler in the Jeffords thread and somebody - maybe Twin, I forget who - invoked some clause that says the moment someone mentions "Hitler" in a debate they lose and the debate is over. So I went through every active thread and posted a gratuitous Hitler reference to see if I could shut them all down. Alas, at least on this thread, it didn't work. (In what I considered to be a stroke of comedic genius, I also replaced "Hitler" with "Elmo" in my original post. No one seemed to notice. It's tough being brilliant.) Hence the Hitler reference here.

For what it's worth, your response to this post is solicited and welcomed. To paraphrase Britney Spears, "Hit me, bluebird, one more time!"

Bluebird:

I am sorry that you did not like my comment about "inflammatory language". I am a writer in historical research, and I review many materials and printed sources. My first question is: is it a reliable source?

If the printed text lists footnotes and references, and if the text provides supporting statements from other sources - the better it is. If it provides local, state or federal statistics, the better!

Anecdotes may make sensational reading, but do they make a trend?

It is wise not to believe everything we read.

Mikestead