Our great state officials here in Georgia voted 122-52 in favor today to put a proposed constitutional ban against gay marriage on the November ballot. 120 votes for were needed to approve the amendment which had failed to pass by 3 votes a few weeks ago. It will pass by a landslide in November. I'm ashamed to be a native Georgian.

Well that just peachy.

Sounds like a state that Phillyfan would love to live in. He loves the Repub's so much I suppose he supports taking away his own rights as well.

To win, do the haters have to get just a simple majority of voters in November -- or is it something like two-thirds or three-fourths. In the House and Senate it was two-thirds. We have a chance if it's two-thirds. We have zero chance if it's just simple majority

Unfortunately, this only passed by two votes. I love ( :mad: ) the quote by one legislator who switched sides and voted in favor of the amendment (from today's NY Times): "I don't appreciate having to explain to my 9-year-old why two big husky guys are kissing," Mr. Mangham said. "God discriminates against the act, but he loves the person. I will continue to protect people who live that lifestyle."

He will continue to protect people who live that lifestyle? Jeesh, if this is protection, imagine what his idea of harm is.

Javy, unfortunately is it just a simple majority of the voters needed to pass the amendment. That's why i said it would pass by a landslide. As for the astute legislator who asked how to explain two men kissing to his children, I e-mailed him and asked him to help me explain to my 9 year old nephew why his father is getting married this weekend for the fifth time! And unfortunately, that is NOT a joke. I can't wait to hear his response.

What an ass****.
I'm going to write him an angry letter

For others who want to call Mr. Mangham out, here's his e-mail address:
rmangham@legis.state.ga.us

Edited to include the poorly written, ill-advised text of my e-mail message to Mr. Mangham:
I'm shocked by your quote in the NY Times: "I don't appreciate having to explain to my 9-year-old why two big husky guys are kissing"

I hope this was a misquote.

Did you mean to say that you don't appreciate having to explain to your son why it's OK to call someone Faggot but not Nigger? As a queer person of color, someone who is both gay and black, I'm interested to know if and how you're able to discriminate against one group and not another.

This is about whether you and your legislative peers believe people are HUMAN. Whether you believe we have hearts and souls and intellects. We've done everything you think we can't: we play professional sports, we're Olympic gold medalists, we serve in the armed forces, we raise children, we're doctors, lawyers, POLITICIANS.

What else do you want from us? We've assimilated as best we can. Played the game by your rules. And yet time and time and time again, we come up short. Even though we do everything you do - pay taxes, raise families, commit to loving relationships, watch Superbowls - we're still second class citizens to you.

Tell me Mr. Mangham, would it have been different for you if it weren't "two big husky guys"? Should we have some more attractive gays move to Georgia to make you feel better?

Or are you just a homophobe, plain and simple?

[ April 01, 2004, 07:00 AM: Message edited by: The B Man ]

I get hopped up by this stuff, sorry...

Let's throw some love toward Karla Drenner:
karla@karladrenner.org

From the same Times article:
During two hours of impassioned speeches, Karla Drenner, an Avondale Estates Democrat and the Legislature's only openly gay member, provided one of the session's more dramatic moments when she stood up and scolded those who said they planned to support the resolution but asked her not to be offended by their votes. "For those of you who say it is not about me," she said, "it is about me and thousands of others just like me and about my family and their families."

This type of stuff makes me so ashamed to be from Georgia and reminds me why I left.

Karla Drenner never wanted to be the spokesperson for gays and lesbians in Georgia ... it was thrust upon in her in many ways ... and I think she's handling herself amazingly well.

Over the past months I have spent many hours at the Georgia Capitol talking to legislators, talking to fellow opponents of SR 595, and those on the other side of the fence. This issue is very close to my heart and I feel the pain of the vote on March 31st as much as anyone. I am dissapointed most with the legislators who voted for this even though they felt it was not right but because the people in their district would vote for them if they voted this way. All I could think about was the DixieCrat party which formed in 1948. The dixiecrats separated from the democratic convention to oppose the civil rights movement. They did this because many in the south wanted to keep the status quo and maintain white superiority. Yeah, the dixiecrats represented many of the southern whites but that does not make it right. I get mad at us, the voters in Georgia, for electing such weak and ignorant legislators. Ignorant is a gentle term as many of them are just plain dumb. Outside of Atlanta, Georgia is just an ignorant redneck state that brings up the back of the list in education, and I'm not surprised. I urge all of you not to spend your money here or do business with Georgia companies. Before I wanted to have the Outsports conventiopn here, but now I think that would not be appropriate.

wade, I appreciate your heartfelt comments.

Maybe we SHOULD come to Atlanta, and spend a crap load of $$$ at gay positive businesses, have a soiree with openly gay politicians and candidates, organize a volleyball or softball tournament for charity - or even visibility, etc.

In other words: maybe we should be more visible in states like Georgia, if only to show our support to folks like wade who've spent a lot of time being activists on our behalf...

Thoughts?

(If I could quit my job and do this full time... Heck, once I get my damn degree, I might try to do just that - full-time organizing and activism. I just need to figure out a way it works with my degree...)

I always thought Atlanta was the gay capital of the South. If a few more of us go there, it isn't going to change. Now, maybe if all of us boycotted decorating all those Buckhead mansions, the matrons of Georgia might sit up and take notice.

you democrats out there reading this who like living in a fantasy realm of Black&White may wanna notice this bit of reality. A quote from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

as you can see by the above quote and slice of reality, gay politics does not fall neatly along democrat/republican lines. so the next time you wanna chastise a gay republican, stop and think first. Because Giuliani, Weld and Bloomberg are all examples of republicans who do more for gays than these above noted democrats.

[ April 01, 2004, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: ung ]

What the f**k, ung?!?

You're making this a partisan issue when only one person has mentioned Republicans (and one other mentioned Dixiecrats).

More than that, TWO of us have already sass-talked Mangham.

So don't f**king chastise me, or anyone else, for doing something we haven't done. That shit pisses me off, ung, and if you want to be a uniter and not a divider, you need to understand that misobservations like this aren't helpful.

Isn't Hembree an R? Funny how that was left out of this bit of "reality". :confused:

ung, you brought it up, so please at least have the balls to admit that it's the R's actually LEADING these measures through legislation around the country (including our Republican President). Nobody is sticking their head in the sand and ignoring that there are D's voting for this shit too. It's the R's putting them in this position and politicizing the issue. That IS reality not "fantasy".

Now for another little dose of "reality". There were 51 Democrats who voted NO and exactly 1 Republican. And you say Democrats live in a fantasy realm of Black&White.

[ April 01, 2004, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: HornFan ]

Ung, what is up with that divisive comment? What are you trying to do? Your comments do nothing but stir up arguments among ourselves, which is something I would expect from Phillyfan, not you. This topic was not about partisan politics unless you consider the Dixiecrats to be a legitimate party. Are you saying that you support the decision by the Georgia legislators? Are you just trying to stir the pot when it is quite innapropriate? You have missed the point of us uniting against people that want to take away our rights no matter who they are. We need to stand up against the rednecks and religious right wing that want to assert their self imposed superiority.

[ April 02, 2004, 06:15 AM: Message edited by: wade n atlanta ]

Yeah, you guys stop and think. They have done so much, hey, just look at Mary Cheney.

Ti creo, Ung - and methinks your detractors doth protest too strongly. Surely they can do better than resort to simple profanity - or engage in their repetitive, childish and non-constructive naysaying. It's all fine and well to talk about "unity," but that usually means uniting under a banner that caters to a divided notion of our nation - and too often strays far and wide from what really concerns most gays and lesbians. Not that many - cf. 'most' - Republicans are doing better, but it does take competition in politics, just as it takes competition everywhere else, to produce the best results. If things were so great under the Democrats' rule, surely all our problems would have ended in 1992, right? Funny it didn't turn out that way.

Well guys by responding to UNG you are letting him win. Ignore him and move on. It's obvious he prefers in-fighting to action. If by pointing fingers at a small percentage of Dems is how he justifies his votes, so be it.

Perhaps he supports these amendments, maybe he hopes they will get passed while we are too busy bickering among other gays. I am a Dem. but I will also vote Green (or even Socialist) if my Dem running is for these amendments. I am not turning a blind eye to the Dems that abandon us, but I also know that even though some Dems support the measures, nearly all Republicans do! They are the ones that started this mess in the first place.

You know what gmginsfo, f**k you, too. ung came here to pick a fight, not for high-minded debate. One person was talking partisan politics on this thread. ONE. So don't step to me like I'm some sort of narrow minded idiot, especially when I've directly addressed the most relevant issue of the Georgia vote: RACE.

I'm sick of making nicey-nice about this topic. And the last person I should have to get into an argument about this with is other gay men, for cryin' out loud.

If you and ung want to feel better about being gay and Republican, get some f**king therapy, or go have lunch with PhillyFan. Or start a "Democrats suck" thread and be done with it already. I'm sick and f**king tired of being told my perspective is too narrow. I'm really f**king fed up with Republicans telling me that my problem is that I'm seeing this through partisan lenses. f**k that noise.

For you to attack the people who have posted on this thread for not being constructive is ridiculous. wadenatlanta has been talking to his congress people, aquaman gave us a heads up on the NY Times article, ugadawgs89 and I both sent saucy messages to Mangham, Gaga4Gaby talked about the state of GA and about Karla Drenner, and LoveJavy talked about the process from here on out.

What's not constructive about any of this? I'll tell you what's NOT constructive: you coming to this thread and insulting me and others. And you know, I'm cool with that. You just need to know I'm going to respond, and that in my response I'm going to be pissy and I'm going to curse and swear and carry on and I'm not going to say I'm f**king sorry.

"CHICKENS FOR COL. SANDERS"

President - gmg
VP - William1865
Secretary - PhillyFan
Treasurer - ung

As gay Americans who want to be recognized as full and complete human beings, we are forced to deal with the same problem as most minorities - to decide on the lesser of two evils when choosing for whom to vote. I think the thread on Sen. Miller from GA is evidence that a lot of us who are Democrats (and I am a Democrat for a HOST of reasons that have nothing to do with my sexuality) are aware that we have enemies within the Democratic party as well as the Republican party. In fact in the South (and especially the rural South) I doubt there is much distinction between members of the two parties.

But the comparison between the two at the national level leaves a clear choice - a party that wants to enshrine discrimination into our national documents or one that is at least willing to discuss our rights and work toward making us full and complete citizens.

I am heartsick at the GA vote, but heartened that votes in so many other states have gone the other way. And I believe it is telling, from the accounts of those Outsports'ers who live in Georgia, that there are a good number of Democratic members of the GA legislature that voted for this amendment solely on politically pragmatic grounds - they would lose their seats because their constituents are bigoted. These politicians voted for our discrimination while holding their noses - unfortunately that makes little difference in the overall scheme of things. Having just finished the book "Civil Wars" on the fight to get civil unions in Vermont (a radical idea at the time), it is clear that we would never have gotten even those rights without politicians from both parties who were willing to risk losing their seats in order to vote for justice - and many of them did. I can wish the GA legislators had those kinds of guts, but we can't win them all.

It is because so many of our states are more provincial than the country as a whole that we MUST win this fight at the national level.

BTW - in order not to be considered too partisan, I must say I am EXTREMELY uncomfortable with the reaction to ung's post. I do NOT agree with his, or many other LCR's on the board, attempts to make the Democrats look more anti-gay than they really are - but the vulgarity and personalization of the attacks on ung are simply unnecessary.

I received a very cool letter from Georgia Equality and wanted so much to print it because it shared many of my feeling and emotions, but because of disceretionary reasons I cannot publish the letter here. The letter reminds us that even though th vote did not come out the way we wanted, the fight must go on and every step we take to stand up for ourselves is a step in the right direction.
By the way, it is not over. The vote still has to go to the polls in November, and even though I feel too much of the state id steeped in archaic and misguided belief, I will continue to urge all ofthose opposed to SR595 to vote in November. We must all get out and make our voices heard.

I'm not sure what discretionary reasons you are referring to wade but can you perhaps post an edited version of the letter?....I commend you for your continued noble efforts and in no way am I suggesting that any of us quit fighting for equality (no matter how much opposition there may appear to be against us) but since it only needs a "simple majority" of the vote in November I don't see how this amendment can now be stopped in Georgia....please keep us informed of progress and updates on your end, though -- even if we "lose" this fight in November doesn't mean we still can't get it overturned down the road (although that admittedly will be a more difficult challenge to overcome).

[ April 02, 2004, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: gamecock ]

Well.... you have to keep in mind the old saying that Atlanta is NOT the South. Those cities that are promoting themselves as Sunbelt metropoli joining the 21st century (Atlanta, Charlotte, et al) are regularly denounced region-wide by the self-righteous right as dens of iniquity. Doesn't seem to keep them from holding their conventions there, though.

At this point, the focus should be on educating the voters against the initiative. ALL the voters. Don't write off the GOPers just because of some preconceived notions that they're not going to listen. They're not going to listen to ranting and raving; they WILL listen to reasoned arguments coming from their own, from people they don't view as hostile or so weirded out they lack all credibility. Log Cabin's Atlanta chpater is not giving up on its constitutents and is not limiting its efforts to metro Atlanta either. Stop dwelling on the past and practicing its failed tactics - "taking it to the streets" and other feel good/work bad public displays of disaffection - and go out and talk to people one-on-one in a non-confrontational manner. That's how you change minds and you keep on keepin' on until you do so! That's how LCR is approaching the GA initiative - what are the rest of you going to do???

GMG, You are right about taking it to the streets. I had a debate with 3 Family marriage amendment supporters on a MARTA train. There were many people on the train who got a good education that day. The debate was very civil, and many points were given, so the listeners could make their own decisions. Even though they were at a numbers disadvantage, I didn't give them any slack.

I hate trying to explain to the 6 year olds why the straight couple with mullets are making out in the check out line at WalMart (Ive witnessed--aint pretty).

So being that respectable people dont make out in public places, what places are Rep Mangham visiting that hed bring his 6 year old to see two husky gay men making out? Tell him kids dont belong in the bear bar!

Man Y'all! Chill out and step back a bit.

so here I am looking out over Central Park eating my bagels from Zabars on a cloudy cool spring day in NYC.

I thought it time to respond to what was written.

It's amazing to me that so many people look at issues (whatever the issue) in terms of black and white and it's amazing to me that so many look at issues and discussions without any sense of context.
Especially in forums like this one, where so many of us are the same people discussing politics over months and years, discussions do not take place in a vacuum. Hence the many references to earlier comments by William, Phillyfan, Razorback, Jim Allen etc.

Having said all that.... This thread/discussion was not one that came out of a vacuum independent of any and all other political discussions.

we have discussed many times over, gay issues, dem vs rep, and how they all reconcile.

It should come as no secret that people like Razorback and others have made known their absolute condemnation of anything republican and their absolute disgust at anything gay republican. all the while praising the democrats as the only available solution and panacea.

I certainly have owned up to the shortcomings of the GOP before. But I also have tried to address the FACT that dems like Sen. Zell Miller and those who voted for the GA state amendment named above are not the answer. That is what I'm trying to do. bipartisan. NOT partisan.

In the numerous discussions of gay marriage on this website from the last year, a common theme has always been "the republicans are doing this. The republicans are doing this" while ignoring antigay activities of democrats.

I'm certainly NOT trying to say that the GOP is blameless. Yes, the GOP has been a driving force in this national movement to amend constitutions. But as you can see and as I pointed out, there are many democrats who are just as culpable as any republican.

In fact, the movement in Kentucky to pass an anti-gaymarriage amendment has been started and led by a democrat. Not a republican (although they certainly have gone along gladly)

What I am trying to say is that this is NOT a partisan issue. In fact, you guys have to recognize the blurring across partylines on many gay issues.

Does that sound like I'm trying to inject partisan politics into this? On the contrary it's BIpartisan.

and those of you who accuse me of being this or that... have you guys just stepped into this website and not read anything posted by me?

Hornfan... why did I not note that the lead for this amendment in GA is a rep? I don't know. why don't you ask the Atlanta Journal-Constitution since what I quoted was a DIRECT QUOTE from the paper. Did I say that I edited their words? Did I say that it was being paraphrased? Don't you know what "here's a quote" means?

having replied to you posts, here's my point again.

The measure passed Georgia's legislature. Yes in GA it was led my a republican. But without the votes of many willing democrats, it would not have passed. someone said I was trying to make the dems look more antigay than they are. all I did was quote a dem who said "I shouldn't have to explain to little kids why two mwn are kissing each other"

Ung - your slip is showing!

Let's try another approach...

Please provide the names of 'office-holding' REPUBLICANS that are on the RECORD in supporting gay rights in general and gay marriage in particular!

Let's see

SF Mayor Gavin Newsom is NOT a Republican.

New Paltz Mayor West is NOT a Republican.

The 'equality-minded' politicians/county clerks in Oregon are NOT Republicans.


_____


Can you please list the names of 'office-holding' REPUBLICANS that SUPPORT gay marriage!


[I'll make some popcorn while I await your response... it shoud be entertaining! ]


.

[ April 04, 2004, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: ironjohn8 ]

sorry if you scorched your popcorn awaiting my response. I went to see "Avenue Q" and was a bit occupied.

anyway... Mayor Bloomberg for one. Does that qualify or are you gonna tell me "He doesn't count. Tell me another"?

and just for the record, may I remind you that Kerry and Edwards (like WBush) are againt gay marriage?

You are right. Gavin Newsome is a democrat. But what is interesting is that before the mayoral election, he was unfairly depicted by many of you ultra-liberals as nothjing but a republican in sheeps clothing owned by business interests.

I understand that on a general scale, dems have been more pro-gay than republicans. That is not being debated. What I am saying is that it's not all black&white as many of you would try to have us believe.

It's amazing. I keep saying that same point over and over. But you all out there only hear and read what you want to hear. Not what I actually said.

Ung, yes I do, but I hope that doesn't make you feel any less superior.

I didn't attack you like others did, but backed up my disagreement with a little dose of reality of my own. You took that small quote to rail against Democrats and those of us who support the Democratic Party without mentioning who actually sponsored this crap and how the votes came down. But go ahead and blame the AJC.

Now,about those 51 Democrats vs. the ONE Republican voting against this measure. Now there's an actual slice of reality that gay politics DOES fall neatly along democrat/republican voting lines. As long as I see those types of OVERWHELMING ratios, I'll keep voting for Democrats. How you can use Georgia as an example of where the Democrats have failed gays is beyond me.

Using southern states like Kentucky, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi etc. to spin negative about the Democratic Party with that broad brush just won't fly.

Bottom line: If the Democrats were in control, we would not be worried about laws and Constitutions being changed to oppress us for being gay. No spin, just fact.

Very true. However, we also wouldnt have any overwhelming support either. Itd just be a dead issue that nobody would even be debating. Democrats have become very status quo as of late.

So maybe for devils advocate's sake, the Republican Party radicals are actually doing us a favor for once. To draw the line in the sand and debate the issue instead of ignoring it like we have for the past several decades.

Again brings to light, why are any of us for one party or the other? Just choose a good candidate. Screw the party.

Frankly, I would rather take my chances in court than with ANY politicians (unless the R's keep weilding enough power to stack the deck totally against us with their "non-activist" judges in the future...see W's gold standard in Scalia).

Oh, yes I know that most of the Mass. judges were appointed by Republicans...it's New England, not the South.

"anyway... Mayor Bloomberg for one. Does that qualify or are you gonna tell me "He doesn't count. Tell me another"?" (ung)

Do you have a link!

So ung... you are saying that Mayor Bloomberg has advised and given the o.k. to NYC county clerks to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples? I don't think so!

"Indeed, we now have a local law (NYC) recognizing such marriages and civil unions performed elsewhere, which Bloomberg signed in 2002 (though he said he will not apply it to the weddings of same-sex couples in San Francisco and New Paltz.)


Doesn't sound like Mayor Bloomberg supports 'gay rights' to me...


Response!


I also see that you can't NAME any other 'office-holding' republican that supports 'gay marriage'.


For the life of me... It boggles the mind why ANY gay/lesbian would ever vote republican! :confused:

.

[ April 05, 2004, 06:53 AM: Message edited by: ironjohn8 ]

Good point, HornFan....one of the many reasons why the upcoming election is SO critical for our community yet is often overlooked is the fact that there may be as many as 3 new Supreme Court justices appointed during the next four years....when you consider the fact that it is HIGHLY probable that KEY components of our fight for equality will be determined by the high court in the not too distant future then our basic civil rights may ultimately rest in the hands of these 2-3 appointees....can ANY of you honestly say that you are willing to place that decision in the hands of W, which will not only have an immediate impact upon our lives NOW but will potentially jeopardize all that we have accomplished in recent months and years?

I haven't necessarily agreed with everything that ironjohn8 has had to say but his concluding point that "for the life of me...it boggles the mind why ANY gay/lesbian would ever vote Republican!" is right on the money and holds true now in 2004 more than ever!

I'm sorry? what's that again? so tell me then... what exactly ARE we fags in Kentucky and Georgia supposed to use then as reference points in politics, if we can't use our very own states where we live?

am I supposed to say, \"well.... I live in Kentucky but I'm only gonna use San Francisco as examples\"

Don't you get it? Don't you know that what you guys in gay enclaves like DuPont circle and The Castro experience have very little in common with what those in Georgia and Kentucky experience. Your quote above is very telling of what many big city gays think, that what they perceive is the only way life happens for everyone else. This is very elitist and condescending.

well... speaking as a big city fag myself (lived in DC, NYC and Paris), that's not the case.

again, you use what little perspective you have and propose broad generalizations of your own. all the while ignoring the fact that all I am trying to do is show the shades of gray.
I live in a state where the democrats control the state legislature. The laws and constitutions ARE being changed here. despite what you say about the nirvana that would exist with democrats in control.

will you dismiss my own personal experience again as irrelevant? and say \"welllll... it's a southern state...\" or will you finally listen and realize that this topic is not so cut and dry?

Do I feel superior? no. I feel frustrated.

No he has not and he can not. Just as the mayor of New Paltz is no longer able to issue gay marriage licenses per the ruling by NY state authorities.
However, just as the mayor of New Paltz has expressed his support of gay marriage, Mayor Bloomberg has also expressed PERSONAL support for gay marriage while mentioning that he is restricted by the state.

On a related note, Eliot Spitzer has also expressed PERSONAL support for gay marriage while upholding the legal positions of the state in his official capacity.

and Ironjohn.... I'm not gonna furnish a link for proof because unlike many people, I don't derive all my info from the internet and chatrooms. If you want proof of what I have said so far, may I suggest that you pick up a paper and read?

[ April 05, 2004, 06:36 PM: Message edited by: ung ]

I live in Dallas but grew up in small town Texas (Pop. 1,300) and spent several years in Lubbock, but Texas could and should have been in my example of what not to do in trying to paint an overall picture of Democrats (which, ung, is what you were doing in your original posts).

I hardly consider Dallas a gay enclave at the level of Castro or Dupont Circle. My representatives in DC consist of President W ®, Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison ®, Sen. John Cornyn ® and Rep. Pete Sessions ® all of which support amending our constitution to ban us from marrying and being relegated to 2nd class citizens. My letters to ALL of them have gone on deaf ears. I'm hardly being elitist or condescending, but those buzzwords are pretty popular in your party, so I'm not surprised you pulled 'em out.

I'm pretty sure you are a lot more political savvy than than that. You are supposed to look at the big picture. Surely you have access to the national press through the Internet?

Thanks to Tom DeLay's resdistricting efforts in Texas, we have many Conservative Democrats who have become Republicans and are winning in the primarys to keep their seats. These guys were pretty much Republican already (See Zell Miller), but had to break tradition and move over to the "other side" thanks to gerrymandering. The point is, these Democrats you speak of are so far removed from the Democratic Party, that they don't belong and should move on over to the GOP.

What you keep failing to understand or believe, is the fact the GOP is no friend to the Gay community in the big scheme of things. The Democrats are our only hope at this time in history. I can respect your party loyalty, but not at the expense of political suicide for gay rights.

We desperately need some moderate judge appointments soon, or it's all over in our lifetime. I'm 44 years old and that scares the crap out of me. I have a partner of 19 years as of the end of this month and we thought we would have more rights by now. Now, what little we have are in jeopardy because of the GOP's pandering to the religious right.

[ April 05, 2004, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: HornFan ]

Hey Horn,, I think we need to work on getting rid of our beloved Mayor Laura Miller first and work our way up. LOL. (To the rest of you she is a Democrat but the dumbest one Ive ever seen and has nary a clue about issues)

I've never voted for Laura Miller, but she is definitely a friend to the gay comunity, got all their political organization endorsements and immediately pushed through a Domestic Partner/Sexual Orientation anti-discrimination ordinance in the City of Dallas early in her tenure as Mayor (a non-partisian elected position). This really pissed off all those North Dallas Republican conservatives who voted for her I might add.

There were only two City Council members to vote against the ordinance, and yep you guessed it right, I live in one those districts. I'm the ultimate poster child for Taxation Without Representation.

Ah, just think, if the founding Fathers had taken this approach, we'd still be paying homage (femmage?) to the English Crown....

Not at all, FT. The North ministry, like King George's mind, was fast failing and the "America Party" in Parliament was in its ascendency. Surely you're not saying we should start firing on the Rev. Phelpses of the world as they march thru our cities, are you? But let's not compound your speculations; to answer my post, exactly what concrete things are YOU doing to advance our rights in this regard?

I'm just disgusted at the Dems that switched sides to vote for bigotry. You expect your enemies to side against you, but when your “friends” do, they deserve special scorn.

This Mangham guy is an African-American, and yet he voted to support bigotry. Amazing. I tend to think of bigotry as being a black and white issue (no pun intended) - you either are a bigot or you're not. You either say hateful things because you believe them or think they're funny - or you don't. Saying he'll "support their [homosexuals'] right to do what they do, but they will not have the sanctity of marriage" is just amazing - could he make a more hypocritical statement?

If every Civil Right's issue had been put to a vote in this country Mr. Mangham probably wouldn't be in a position today to proclaim our second class status.

This Georgia vote is just the latest example of why I'm for letting the South secede - this time no fight needed - as our next President (fingers crossed) often says, "don't let the door hit you on the way out."

I'm sure you guys know this already. But I'll say it anyway. Being a member of a minority is no guarantee of being free from prejudice.

we see so many minorities who are homophobic. we see so many gay men who don't like to see lesbians in the clubs. we see so many gays who are racist. I can go on and on. But you get the picture. This is life and this is reality.

Yes it's life and it SUCKS!!!

I get so mad at other gays when they complain about equal rights, then say some racist joke.