Saw this today,,,without comment on my feeling regarding the war, I am concerned about the troops stationed "over there" The radio stations used to have collections of supplies, letters emails for the troops. Since the end of "Major combat" all of that seems to have stopped. I am sorry to see those efforts end,I hope the troops do not feel forgoten

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20030813_1154.html

I'm sure it might be shocking to some people that those in the military might have to go fight a war at some point, but this is really nothing more than anti-war propaganda hyped up as a news story. Thank God there's no liberal media or anything like that...

William1865, The parents who held the news conference seemed to have some very deeply held concerns about the current situation over there.
I am sure you toughed out the times you were in the service

I have several friends in Iraq now and more to go in Nov, the morale is very low. I pray for their safety every day and i think its very obvious that bush had no plan or no idea on what would happen once saddam was out of poower. the thought was the people would just fall in love with us and it would be smooth sailing.

Apparently, the "you are either with us or 'agin' us" no questions asked mantra doesn't quite transcend to the Iraqi's as it does here.

Horn you really love that face dont you.. i mean you use it in all your posts.. good job!

Bring um on!

William, PhillyFan, Cheney and many other war cheerleaders can be counted on to root for the troops from the sidelines - as long as someone else is doing the fighting.

[ August 13, 2003, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: RazorbackTX ]

Exactly! and anyone who questions the war is a liberal! no we can not have dissent in our ranks!
I mean what would become of our beloved fatherland
Seig heil!

Well first off I didn't hear the anti-war crowd volunteering to be UN weapons inspectors when they wanted the UN to control everything. I didn't hear yall volunteering to go live in Iraq with the Iraqi people under the Saddam Hussein regime when you wanted to keep him in power.

Moreover this whole idea that any American who supports any military action anywhere should join the military or shut up is just bizarre, but is in a way flattering to the pro-war cause. Anti-war people know they're taking the easy way out, that what they're saying is indicative of cowardice and laziness. That's why they never suggest it would be somehow challenging to put serious action behind their words, they just talk on and on and on. What would the challenge be? "Hey, if you really oppose the war, why don't you go hang out at a protest rally all day where the odds of being arrested or intimidated are statistically zero, and just bitch about everything for awhile?" Ummm, okay.

Also - are you honestly suggesting that if I, a thirty year old with no prior military service and bad hearing in my left ear, just walked into an Army recruiting office and said, "Hey, I want to go fight in Iraq!" I would somehow be on the next plane over, while a soldier over there now could pack his bags and come home? Of course not. Yours is not a serious argument, but then so few arguments against this war have been serious, I'm really not all that surprised.

Well first off I didn't hear the anti-war crowd volunteering to be UN weapons inspectors when they wanted the UN to control everything.

Moreover this whole idea that any American who supports any military action anywhere should join the military or shut up is just bizarre


Were they accepting volunteers to be UN weapons inspectors? If so please provide a link, Id really be interested in reading about it. Thats a really poor analogy William, even by your standards.

As far as the second statment above I pretty much agree with you....
Also bizarre: If you didnt support the war you're pro-Saddam...

If you didnt support tax cuts, you have an obligation to send your check back or shut up...

If you dont follow lock-step with every wacky right wing idea the junta comes up with you are a commie/pinko

If you speak up on issues that conflict with ChimpcoInc. you should "move to Sweden" or Canada or France....

Pretty bizarre stuff.

No william1865 I am not suggesting that you must sign up, or that only those who have been there should comment.
I was pointing out how silly your narrow minded response about the liberal media is, and I quote you"but this is really nothing more than anti-war propaganda hyped up as a news story. Thank God there's no liberal media or anything like that... "
Just because you do not agree with somethng you dismiss it, blame the liberals. Forget the fact that many of the people who are in this movement are ex military...but you in your wisdom, sorry I mean dogma know best.
Troops killing themselfs! too bad! troops suffering in the heat, hell they signed up for it!
Parents after reading the mail from their sons want to bring them home, how un-American! they should be proud to suffer the fatherland

Where to begin? There have been several stories reported in the press over the last few weeks that would seem to indicate that troop morale is suffering. This is perhaps understandable given the length of time so many have spent in the region where the weather is miserable and the people even worse. Griping by the troops first made the news when soldiers with the 3rd Infantry Brigade shared some choice words with members of the press about their feelings toward the Secretary of Defense et al. I’m sure morale hasn’t improved in the several weeks since, what with soldiers being picked off on nearly a daily basis. Add to this miscellaneous other tales and phenomena that have begun to crop up and the picture isn’t pretty. Allegations that the number of wounded is not being accurately reported, that the troops themselves have begun to question war aims, Colin Powell has one foot out the door, there is little interest among allies in becoming involved in post-war efforts, reconstruction proceeds too slowly and feeds growing unrest and a tab for the whole endeavor that continues to grow, all certainly color a gloomy picture.

Anyone who cares about this country and its undertaking in Iraq must question whether the postwar effort is being prosecuted with the same skill as earlier combat. It would be unfortunate to win the war and screw-up in the aftermath (much as Bush I botched the first Gulf War). We must try to remember that this is ultimately about our country, our service men and women, America’s power and influence in the world and not our President, his associates or the “I told you so” opposition.

This morning I watched an interview with retired Gen. Wesley Clark (who may be running for President) who pointed out that the US had five times as many troops on the ground in Kosovo (proportional to size and population) as we currently maintain in Iraq. While it may not be necessary to so dramatically increase the numbers, clearly we need a much larger (and more expensive) presence in Iraq. Overall strength needs to be increased very substantially and troops who have been long serving in Iraq need to be rotated out. Ultimately this will help us to deal with the Iraqi opposition much more ruthlessly, as they deserve.

Reconstruction needs to be speeded up dramatically as well. It is inconceivable to me that months later there is rioting in the streets due to lack of power, water, and employment. This, I attribute to an unwillingness, on the administration’s part, to spend the money necessary to make progress in these areas. Time for the President to face facts. Under present circumstances there is no carrot sufficiently tempting that he can dangle in front of our wealthier allies that will serve to entice them into making a contribution toward reconstruction. He’s left holding the bag and he’s going to need to spend the money to improve the situation. This is politically unpalatable but there it is. Reconstruction will be much, much more expensive than the war itself and the American taxpayer is going to foot the bill and that’s that. Once conditions improve we may have the luxury of eating crow and inviting the UN and the overseas opposition to sit down at the table.

On the subject of supporting the war and serving in the armed forces, some valid points have been made by other posters. Even if I were acceptable to the military, I would have no desire to fight and die for this cause. If the Iraqis started storming up on our beaches I’d feel differently. Still, most Americans think it’s a good idea, I tend to agree with the stated aims of the war and I don’t see why I should be barred from supporting them and the effort even if I don’t have the courage or desire to carry arms myself. Some people will see hypocrisy in that. So be it.

Personally, I think that citizens with combat experience are under represented in this administration and that’s another matter. I, after all, am not going to decide whether or when troops should be committed to combat. Clinton took a good deal of heat sending our forces to war since he was a draft dodger himself. I’ll give him a few points for acknowledging such and the consequently ominous burden he felt in sending forces into combat. He also involved us in the Balkans somewhat reluctantly and at the coercion of our allies. By contrast our current gung-ho President is also a draft dodger of sorts but one with the hubris to parade around in combat gear for the cameras. I wonder if he dressed similarly while registering voters for the National Guard? I prefer presidents with a real military record, the experience of combat could only help a President more fully understand the weighty decisions to be made when the lives of our soldiers are to be sacrificed. It’s not a requirement but it’s preferable.

Torgauer as always an excellent post. I want to clear up that in no way shape of form think that someone must have been in the armed forces to have the right to offer an opinion. My anger is when someones opinion is brushed as aside because it is liberal, and the position is taken only right wing ideas can have the flag wrapped around it. May have died on the left and right and to disregard either is, to me, offensive.

Lots of apolitical people die too. Do you not care about them? Jeez...

Yes I do care about them, something from my christian upbring

What does your religion have to do with this? Are you saying people not raised in a Christian home are not as capable of compassion or basic decency? I don't think there's any need to question the religious upbringings of those with whom you disagree. And we do have a separation of church and state, you know. Looks like somebody needs a copy of the U.S. Constitution to brush up on...

William1865 even for you that was a reach.
You said"Lots of apolitical people die too. Do you not care about them? Jeez"
so I replied"Yes I do care about them, something from my christian upbring "
Now how you get that"What does your religion have to do with this? Are you saying people not raised in a Christian home are not as capable of compassion or basic decency? " is beyond me.
I fail to see any "only a person" in my reply.

The implications were obvious. At any rate, you brought up your religious upbringing in a blatant effort to bestow upon yourself a certain moral superiority that would discourage others from questioning your beliefs. Nice strategy, but not really effective...

William1865, I am sorry if that is what my post implied, that was not my intent. I do not think that my morals are better/ more valid than yours or anyones.
However I do think you have expressed that" certain moral superiority " by blaming concerns parents have about the war on a "liberal media"


'

I'm not blaming the parents' concerns on the media, I'm blaming a) the parents for attempting to exploit their children, and the natural and admirable sympathy the public would feel for them, for anti-war political gain and 2) the liberal media for blindly parroting the claims of anti-war interest groups without any opposing views, and without any profiles of soldiers who are proud to serve their country and/or parents who are proud of what their kids are doing for their country.

William1865 I do not know which channel you were watching but on CNN there was a retired 3 star defending the war. Also the parent doing the talking was not handled with kid gloves. In fact he was asked if his son approved, the father said (something to the effect of) my son knows I am doing this, he and I agree to disagree...

I was referring to the article you posted at the start of this thread...

William1865, got it... BTW for the most part I check two or more sources before I post topics regarding the troops ( having lived in the time of the war in Nam, and seeing how those guys were treated , and having a partner that came home from gulf war 1 with the syndrome I am quite touchy on issues involving actice duty and vets)..sometimes I forget I only post one source.