I am watching "Today" this morning and they are talking to the CA Dem and Repub Chairs about the upcoming recall election.

I had to laugh out loud when they asked the Repub Chair what was the primary concern about Grey Davis. He said:

Uhh, hello pot. This is the kettle. You're black.

I guess it is time for us to recall the Bush administration and put someone in who won't take hundreds of billions of dollars in a surplus and turn it into the biggest deficit in the history of the country.

Thats great.

They also are bitching about unemployment in CA.

Hello, under Bush we have the highest unemployment in 20 years. Where do I sign the recall petition for him....

Maybe Davis should have just given all the billionaires in CA a huge tax cut, thats a cure-all right?

Recall is part of the California state constitution. There is no mechanism for "recall" in the U.S. Constitution.

Besides, why would you want to recall a President who is doing an extraordinary job in the face of extreme problems that he inherited from his predecessor(s)? President Bush has run up deficits trying to stimulate an economy that fell into the doldrums as a result of the bursting of the tech bubble, a problem that was allowed to fester under the go-go boom-stoking policies of Robert Rubin at Treasury under Clinton's watch. And President Bush is running up a deficit fighting a war on terror that we never asked to fight, but got drafted into battle as a result of 9-11. The fact the Clinton administration was relatively impotent in matters of fighting terror (in direct contrast with its potency in getting oral sex from interns) exacerbated the worldwide terror problem, making the ultimate bill more expensive. It also shifted paying that bill from from the 1990s, when he did not react properly to the Khobar Towers bombing, or the Cole bombing, or the bombing of our embassies in Dar Es Salaam and Nairobi. We fought terror on the cheap in 1990s and have run up a deficit fighting a more expensive battle in the 00's.

Gray Davis, on the other hand, has run up a deficit supporting a bloated bureaucracy that he allowed to get even more bloated in the late 1990s (Clinton, to his credit, didn't grow the U.S. budget during the go-go 90s, instead he and the Republican Congress paid down the debt). Davis also completely mishandled an energy crisis that, mysteriously, only affected California.

So I guess I don't understand your point about deficits being forgivable for Gray Davis but not George W. Bush. Seems like Bush is handling things just well as far as I'm concerned. A majority of Americans agree with me. An overwhelming majority of Californians seem to disagree with you.

[ August 12, 2003, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Charlie in the Trees ]

I guess the point that seemed to escape you is the extreme irony that the head of the CA Republican party is using an argument for removal of the head of government there that if applied at a national level would justify the ouster of his party's top leader. I mean, come on CITT. You cannot read about his statement and not be able to see the ludicrous nature of what he is saying.

I am not an authority on what is happening in CA or whether Davis should be recalled. I was not making that kind of statement at all. I was pointing out the continuing disconnect between what the Republicans throughout the country say and what they do. It is okay for the President to run our country into the ground (no matter how you try and twist reality, very few people agree with your point that Bush is guiding the country's economy well), but heaven forbid a governor do the same thing.

And, in terms of your broad assertions about majorities and such, I think that you are overstating reality just a bit.

Originally posted by Charlie in the Trees:
Besides, why would you want to recall a President who is doing an extraordinary job in the face of extreme problems that he inherited from his predecessor(s)?


Man, you are in rare form today, thats really funny!!

He "inherited" a surplus from his predeccessor, which he has now turned into record deficits....
tax cut anyone?

As I have mentioned before, that should come as no suprise...thats what he does. When he become gov of Texas he had a surplus, left with a deficit. Thats trickle down/voodoo economics at work.

HUH?Davis also completely mishandled an energy crisis that, mysteriously, only affected California.
Alcoa CLOSED a production plant because of the cost of energy... in a western ( but not CA) state. The energy situation hit more than CA we are just the ones it hit hardest.
I also disagree than Mr Bush is doing a great job, just today I read that there STILL is noone list of suspected terrorist! there are some 14 lists....is that not how the Sept 11th terrorist got in here?
Enviroment, bad
Economy,bad
Armed forces, worse off ( before you rant about this..talk to some troops how many will not re enlist)
Schools, worse
IMO there is not one area the general public is better today than they were 2 years ago

Why limit your observation to just one of the political parties? Without too much difficulty, we'd be able to find similar "howlers" from the folks behind each of nine dwarves seeking the Democratic presidential nomination.

Besides, the California economy is in significantly worse shape than any other state. Worse even than traditional basket cases like West Virginia and Rhode Island. I don't understand why you seem to think Bush is to blame for California's poor performance relative to the nation as a whole.

Charlie in the trees...I think the situation here can in part be blamed on the policies of the federal gov't. Without going into details on each here are the areas I think the fed have hurt
Cut in funding for schooling of military children, it cost the San Diego unified school district 1.2 mil this year. My chief complaint is the cuts came after the school year started. I also feel the no child left behind was an unfunded mandate ( the blame falls on both parties as the Dems voted for it as well)
The failure of FERC to step into energy mess or to refund the Ca ratre payers, it is estimated that each household should see a refund of $1,300. ( on avg) Now if a $600 tax rebate is important what would that kind of money do to help out the state? on the filp side I can tell you that my power bills went from 150 a month to 600 and I do not have A/C.( BTW I only hold FERC up to the inter state power issues not the intra state)
The lack of funding to cover homeland security...
I can not speak to the cost for other states but here, it is a ton of money. I thought the feds were responsible for the nation defense.

Federal budget cuts certainly play a significant role in CA. It is the most populous state in the country, and many programs are budgeted per capita. So, cuts in the budget allocations to states would normally be disproportionate to larger states.

Also, something not even mentioned at this point.... The whole CA energy crisis was partially created by a group of energy companies with direct ties to the current administration. Audits showed the companies like Enron ran energy reselling scams that cost the state billions of dollars. While CA has won several refund judgments, it still is out a tremendous amount of money due primarily to corporate fraud. The number of fraudulent scams run by corporations who helped put the President in office were astonishing.

So, whether Davis is worthy of running the state or not, we do have a situation where the Republicans are taking advantage of a problem created by their own supporters.

You know....

There is something ya'all are missing here... NO ONE LIKES DAVIS. The masses have turned on him! Was it not Davis who said he had the budget "under control"... when, in fact, he did not. THAT is why people are pissed off. Complain all you want about W.. no one blamed him for the recession. Most americans understand that there will be a deficit in bad times. CA has created this problem, and go figure they dont have to fight a war.. well, other than the social welfare war they have created...

This whole energy crisis. Blame enron.. blame the big bad corporations ect ect.. but you know who's fault this is... the VOTERS.. did they not vote for de-regulation? Just as you may have lower costs of energy from this.. there is also a chance of this happening to you. Instead, the voters said... lets deregulate and stick it to them, when in turn the stuck it to you. Personal responsibility.

Now, all this hoopla about fed budget cuts... folks.. the economy is not that great.. cut your programs. CA wont do that, and as cavuto say.. they have their tin cup out. bubkus.

CA's problem is that business is LEAVING. Not only do the people there sweat layoffs, they sweat the biz packing up and moving. That is due to taxes folks. i'm all for taking care of workers... CA has just gone crazy in taking care of them.

AZ has to have a balanced budget. Maybe CA can look into this.. yes you have to tighten your belt, but you never get into this mess.

we still have the world's 5th or 6th largest economy.

we are THE most progressive states in the union when it comes to gay rights.

we still have one of the best public higher education systems in the nation

it doesn't matter how much people dislike or like Gray Davis. the man does have the personality of a wet mop but if it weren't for the Republicans and their refusal to even consider any tax hikes, the budget would have been done on time.

and the businesses leaving are going because they don't want to follow the environmental laws, worker's comp laws, etc.

This recall is hurting the state more than it could ever possibly help it. Our bond ratings are down because of the political instability, not because of any economic policy.

As I've said before, I hope to the gods above that this recall backfires on the Republicans and that the citizens of California repay them with bumping even more of them out of state government.

Philly Fan, y'know I love you like a brother, but you're wrong on this one. Businesses aren't leaving California just due to the taxes. It's the heavy-handed nanny-state regulations, too. wink

I saw some stats that if it weren't for California, the national jobless numbers would be showing significant improvement. Thank you, Gray Davis, for creating new jobs here in my Nevada, Philly Fan's Arizona, the LDS church's Utah, and whoever's Idaho, Wyoming and Oregon.

[ August 12, 2003, 04:44 PM: Message edited by: Charlie in the Trees ]

PhillyFan WHAT?
This whole energy crisis. Blame enron.. blame the big bad corporations ect ect.. but you know who's fault this is... the VOTERS.. did they not vote for de-regulation
No the voters did not vote on this issue! and yes it was a stupid move on the part of the states gov but ENRON RAPED US! plain and simple, I can not believe you are defending them

PF and theo, you're both wrong on a couple points.
The voters may have voted for de-regulation, but they're not to blame. It's the legislature's fault for doing a crummy job of writing the laws. Texas de-regulated and is doing just fine. A few of the eastern states have had similar experiences. It all depends on how well-written the de-regulation laws are. CA's sucked! It was only natural that profit-motivated companies took advantage of them, sometimes with questionable practices.

Once it became clear that CA was being raped by the energy companies, Davis totally mishandled the situation, agreeing to ridiculous prices for long-term contracts and locking the state in for future suffering.

Not true. CA's bond rating was in the toilet long before serious talk of a recall ever surfaced.

[ August 12, 2003, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: beachjock73 ]

Pretty funny how the bond rating is due to the "republicans" when DEFINATELY this mess was caused by davis and his dems in control of the legislature.

Do you hear what you are say, we have a problem, raise taxes... ok, so then we have a boom... and they get in this problem again, what you raise taxes again? It's a never ending tax base... spend spend spend.

Actualy it was not an issue of raising taxes. The budget was based on revenue shuch as the cashing out of stock options ect. Now if they assumed it was a one time influx they could have avoided this mess...