http://www.orlandosentinal.com/news/local/...ome%2Dheadlines


Anyone else would be in jail.

[quote]Originally posted by RazorbackTX:
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Anyone else would be in jail.

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SAD,SAD, situation.

Raze, I know you take some sort of sadistic delight in Noelle Bush's suffering (too bad for you she wasn't on one of the hijacked planes or in the World Trade Center on 9/11! Now that would have been a riot, huh?), so fear not. According to the AP:

"The workers told police that the two grams of powder tested positive for cocaine, but police didn't immediately arrest her because they couldn't obtain a sworn statement that she was in possession of cocaine, Rolon said.

The investigation will continue, said Rolon, who added that police hadn't interviewed Noelle Bush as of Tuesday morning.

Possession of any amount of cocaine is a felony, said police."

So there's still a chance she might do time, dude. Keep hope alive. Keep hope alive.

[quote]Originally posted by William1865:
So there's still a chance she might do time, dude. Keep hope alive. Keep hope alive.

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I don't think the point is that anyone necessarily wants Noelle Bush to go to jail. It's the fact that she WON'T go to jail, when pretty much anyone else in her position would. NO ONE should be locked away for succumbing to an addiction.

[quote]Originally posted by William1865:
Raze, I know you take some sort of sadistic delight in Noelle Bush's suffering (too bad for you she wasn't on one of the hijacked planes or in the World Trade Center on 9/11! Now that would have been a riot, huh?), so fear not. According to the AP:

"The workers told police that the two grams of powder tested positive for cocaine, but police didn't immediately arrest her because they couldn't obtain a sworn statement that she was in possession of cocaine, Rolon said.

The investigation will continue, said Rolon, who added that police hadn't interviewed Noelle Bush as of Tuesday morning.

Possession of any amount of cocaine is a felony, said police."

So there's still a chance she might do time, dude. Keep hope alive. Keep hope alive.

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William - Once again your assumptions about me are wrong, but not unexpected. Your 9/11 comment speaks for itself and does not deserve a response.
I would only hope that she is treated the same way a non-connected drug addict would be.

[quote]Originally posted by RazorbackTX:


William - Once again your assumptions about me are wrong, but not unexpected. Your 9/11 comment speaks for itself and does not deserve a response.
I would only hope that she is treated the same way a non-connected drug addict would be.

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By saying my 9/11 comment speaks for itself, you essentially responded to it. Michael Moore's the one who said he wishes the planes had hit places where there were more Republicans, and were it not for the bravery of Mark Bingham, Todd Beamer, etc, he would have gotten his wish - the fourth plane was apparently headed for Congress.

So, are non-connected drug addict's various travails discussed here on Outsports? I know you wouldn't want them treated any differently than Miss Bush, who, for what it's worth (not much, I suspect), did go to jail after she was busted with prescription drugs in rehab.

William, her Grandfather is a former President, her uncle is the current President and her father is the Governor of one of the states most targeted for drug eradication. All three of these men have vowed an all out war on drugs complete with lengthy jail terms for violators. Now, one of their own is caught, yet again, and nothing happens.

Actions speak louder than words.

[quote]Originally posted by William1865:


By saying my 9/11 comment speaks for itself, you essentially responded to it. Michael Moore's the one who said he wishes the planes had hit places where there were more Republicans, and were it not for the bravery of Mark Bingham, Todd Beamer, etc, he would have gotten his wish - the fourth plane was apparently headed for Congress.

So, are non-connected drug addict's various travails discussed here on Outsports? I know you wouldn't want them treated any differently than Miss Bush, who, for what it's worth (not much, I suspect), did go to jail after she was busted with prescription drugs in rehab.

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"Michael Moore's the one who said...." What does that have to do with me relaying the fact about Noelle Bush? If you are so upset about that comment I would suggest you contact Michael Moore. Its amazing to me that you would bring that up. You defend outrageous things that Ann Coulter says as "performance."

"My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building." Ann Coulter

To quote you in another thread "I cant help it, I love this girl"

Non connected drug addicts "travails" are probably not discussed here because they are not happening to the daughter of a family values, war on drugs governor.

PS I think Michael Moores comments regarding 9/11 are disgusting. I dont even like Michael Moore or pay any attention to anything he says but if I did like him I wouldnt blindly defend every ridicilious statement that he made.

[ September 10, 2002: Message edited by: RazorbackTX ]

[quote]Originally posted by RazorbackTX:
Non connected drug addicts "travails" are probably not discussed here because they are not happening to the daughter of a family values, war on drugs governor.

[ September 10, 2002: Message edited by: RazorbackTX ]

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But you said you wanted her treated the same way. She's not being treated the same way because she is being discussed in public forums to which others are not subjected. That's all I'm saying.

Congratulations, by the way, on your dislike for Michael Moore.

[quote]Originally posted by William1865:


But you said you wanted her treated the same way. She's not being treated the same way because she is being discussed in public forums to which others are not subjected. That's all I'm saying.

Congratulations, by the way, on your dislike for Michael Moore.

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If CNN or MSNBC ect has breaking news on a non connected drug addict Ill make sure and place a post here about it to give them equal time.

[quote]Originally posted by Aubie in Bham:
William, her Grandfather is a former President, her uncle is the current President and her father is the Governor of one of the states most targeted for drug eradication. All three of these men have vowed an all out war on drugs complete with lengthy jail terms for violators. Now, one of their own is caught, yet again, and nothing happens.

Actions speak louder than words.

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What do you mean, yet again? She's been in jail once, she may very well head back, at which point you may all see your hopes of vengeance being unleashed against Miss Bush as punishment not just for her drug abuse, but for the political views of her father, grandfather and uncle. Just hold tight. This is from the AP report:

Noelle Bush was arrested in January at a Tallahassee pharmacy drive-through window for allegedly trying to buy the anti-anxiety drug Xanax with a fraudulent prescription.

She was admitted to the treatment center a month later, with the possibility charges would be dropped if she completed the program.

But in July, she was found to be in contempt of court because a worker at the treatment center found her carrying prescription pills, which belonged to another worker and had been taken from a cabinet. Circuit Judge Reginald Whitehead sent her to jail for three days.

Karen Levey, a spokeswoman for the court, said if Noelle Bush violates a drug court contract, Whitehead could sanction her with more jail time.

But State Attorney's Office spokesman Randy Means added that if Bush is charged with drug possession, she could be kicked out of her treatment program. She could then face punishment for the Tallahassee crime as well as any Orlando case.

Drug prescription fraud, as in the Tallahassee case, is a third-degree felony that carries a maximum penalty of five years in prison and a $5,000 fine if convicted. As a first offender, she could face far less than the maximum, however.

You know I think the Bush clan has alot in common with the Kennedy clan. Years of hard politics have taken their toll on the families. I mean the Kennedys' or their relatives are constantly in the news lately it seems for one thing or another.

Then when have the Bush twins and their drinking problems, and now Jeb Bush's daughter has been in and out of the news. Its pretty clear to me that career politicans wreak havoc on the families. I also express my concern that Noelle Bush will pay the price if she is indeed found guilty of this charge. We shall see.

I think it's pretty clear that some take great pleasure in Noelle Bush's addiction. It might be better to consider the mindset of one who feels that way, and move on.

As for the Bush daughters, I think if college-age drinking to excess made one an addict, many of us would be Betty Ford alum.

My guess is many folks who are so indignant about Noelle Bush were nowhere near as riled up by the numerous arrests, lenient treatment, and fifth "second" chances of Steve Howe and Darryl Strawberry.

Jail is the worst place to send people with addictions. Alcoholism is a disease. Drug Addiction isn't a picnic and shouldn't be "punished." Obviously, if someone is causing harm to others, that's another story. Treatment is the only way, and when enforcement is necessary, forced rehab. I know this is simplfying a complex issue but hoping someone (whichever party they belong to) goes to jail because they have an addiction is just stupid.

no Bryan. We are not sending people to jail just because they have an addiction. We are sending people to jail because they broke the law as a result of their adiction.

Being an addict is completely separate from being in possesion of or dealing in illegal drugs.

and yes, I was very riled about the leniency shown to Strawberry etc. But then... I guess I'm a hardass.

as a republican, I can honestly say that I don't "take pleasure" in the travails of the Bush clan. However, I believe in the importance of putting your money where your mouth is. (I think that's the correct phrase)

The Bush clan has been vocal about mandatory term sentences for drug violations. (as have I) the mandatory sentence given and the imposed minimum sentencing should not be affected by the girl's relatives. Not being hypocritical about such an important public policy matter would be the right thing to do.

[quote]Originally posted by ung:
The Bush clan has been vocal about mandatory term sentences for drug violations. (as have I) the mandatory sentence given and the imposed minimum sentencing should not be affected by the girl's relatives. Not being hypocritical about such an important public policy matter would be the right thing to do.

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This is the difference between Noelle Bush and Daryl Strawberry. Noelle Bush's father and uncle are two of the leaders of this country. Her uncle, for example, is "Commander-in-Chief" of our ridiculous War on Drugs. That's why Noelle getting busted is seen as "ironic".

I disagree with Ung, however, about mandatory minimums, which are an abomination of justice. The drug war is a failure, one that has destroyed families and communities, and killed and imprisoned nonviolent, and in some cases, innocent people.

Check out this great website:

Target America

[ September 10, 2002: Message edited by: conor500 ]

I take no delight in Noelle Bush's problems, & offer no criticism of the antics of the fun-loving first twins, but I do revel in the irony of it. Noelle's grandfather was a harsh drug warrior while he occupied the White House. Her uncle the current White House occupant favors a hard-line approach to drugs and initiated a major crackdown on underage drinking while governor of Texas. The war on drugs is a failure, at least in terms of reducing drug use, and mandatory minimums are a cruel approach to the drug problem. But it fits with the general approach of conservatives to social issues: lay down the law, and if anyone steps out of line, beat him down. Break the law, go to jail; it's as simple as that (at least if you don't have money & connections). If this fills up the prisons, build more of them. And if the costs of this approach strain the federal and state budgets to the breaking point, so be it.

[quote]Originally posted by Billy:
I take no delight in Noelle Bush's problems, & offer no criticism of the antics of the fun-loving first twins, but I do revel in the irony of it.

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I find it ironic that you take no delight in your revelry.

Excuse me, perhaps "revel" was the wrong word to use. But let's not get too bogged down over semantics.

[quote]Originally posted by Billy:
perhaps "revel" was the wrong word to use.

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Umm, schadenfreude?

Addiction is a disease. Addiction causes otherwise sensible (mostly) people to buy illegal substances or use them. Putting someone in jail rarely improves the situation. If there's violence or harm to others involved, absolutely they should be restrained. I just don't believe that mandatory jail sentences do anything positive for our country. I believe that the complexity of addictions and drug abuse is just too much for politicians to deal with - they need sound bites and bold statements to get people's attention, damn the complexities. Which is probably our lazy country's fault but nevertheless....

And Ung, are you proud of being a hard ass Republican? I mean, god bless ya, but does it really help anyone to be like that? Discernment and compassion and moderation seem to go so much further in our world. I know this is very general but I just can't imagine anything more tired than this image of a hard ass Republican; the world is a much different place nowadays. The hawks in power are causing incredible and hopefully not irreperable damage to our country.

Speaking of the hawks (most of whom never fought in anyone's war, though Rumsfeld is a Navy vet), there's a fascinating article by Nicholas Lemann in the currrent issue of The New Yorker.

Back to the subject: poor Noelle.... I'm sure the stress of 9/11 and her father's election aren't helping matters. I just hope no one starts making wild conjectures that Xanax and Valium, which figured in Noelle's earlier legal crises, are "gateway" drugs like marijuana, or millions of suburbanites might get trapped in the fanatical war on drugs....

In terms of the Kennedys, the Bushes do seem to do a better job of taking the public's money and getting away with it, probably because they find other routes (free baseball stadiums, failed S&Ls) rather than taxes.

[quote]Originally posted by Billy:
Excuse me, perhaps "revel" was the wrong word to use. But let's not get too bogged down over semantics.

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Why Billy? Others are certainly reveling in the irony. Schadenfreude would be delight in her most recently--and past--drug dramas, but that wasn't what you were saying.

BTW, the U.S. is now funding 1) the Colombian military's all-out attack on the various rebel groups; and 2) widespread spraying of a herbicide to kill coca plants in the Colombian countryside. This herbicide also supposedly destroys all other nearby plants (like bananas, corn, rice, etc.) and causes lesions and other toxic effects on human beings, but we won't be hearing about any of this.

[quote]Originally posted by Billy:
But it fits with the general approach of conservatives to social issues: lay down the law, and if anyone steps out of line, beat him down. Break the law, go to jail

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And what is the liberal approach to any problem? - lay down a line - if any one steps over it - tell him he has done a bad thing- and then move the line . Start over - repeat as often as needed.

Razor back dude, I'm watching the news as I'm getting in from work, & immediately I thought about you & almost broke my side laughing @ what you might have to say. & as soon as I open the board here you go. As much as I enjoy you & your commentaries, it's no joking matter. Truthfully, we all should be crying. Jeb says some people take longer than others to get over thier addictions, & he'd appreciate privacy to help his family deal with this. If this rule applied to everyone arrested, sure why not.

[quote]Originally posted by copman:

And what is the liberal approach to any problem? - lay down a line - if any one steps over it - tell him he has done a bad thing- and then move the line . Start over - repeat as often as needed.

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Billy, the conservative approach applies only if they or their children are NOT involved. W. Bush never served any serious penalties or had his license revoked for his drunk driving (this did come up but was buried during the 2000 election), yet throughout his father's term both Poppy Bush and the MADD folks were out in full force for penalties for drunk driving.

Liberals usually wring their hands if they or their children get caught up in felonious behavior, and say, what did I do wrong? (Cf. Mr. Lindh with his little fervent wacko Talib.)

Of course rich people of whatever political stripe tend to look for judges or someone with influence who can get their children OFF.

[quote]Originally posted by fantomas:


Billy, the conservative approach applies only if they or their children are NOT involved. W. Bush never served any serious penalties or had his license revoked for his drunk driving (this did come up but was buried during the 2000 election), yet throughout his father's term both Poppy Bush and the MADD folks were out in full force for penalties for drunk driving.

Liberals usually wring their hands if they or their children get caught up in felonious behavior, and say, what did I do wrong? (Cf. Mr. Lindh with his little fervent wacko Talib.)

Of course rich people of whatever political stripe tend to look for judges or someone with influence who can get their children OFF.

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Not to mention the fact that when Shrub was gov of Texas he "cracked down" on underage drinking.(No comment required)

Also when ever one of these family values, conservative family members gets busted for drinking, cocaine, whatever all we hear from the parents (Shrub and Jeb) is how they want "privacy."

Just for fun I thought it would be interesting to use some republican "logic" I heard a million times during the Clinton years...you know "If his own wife cant trust him, how can we?" becomes
"If he cant win a war on drugs in his own family...
Or "If he cant crack down on underage drinking in his own family....

More fun with Jenna:
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/020909/...ws/9service.htm

This is getting so tiresome.

1) Naturally parents feel more loyalty to their own offspring than to random strangers.

2) Public policy stemming from any ideology almost always works better in theory than in practice. Most everything in life works better in theory than in practice.

3) If anybody is to blame for goofy-assed schemes to "crack down on underage drinking" and "win the war on drugs" it is the American people, who in mass seem to have elevated "protecting our children" above all other considerations. Todd Solondz addressed this wonderfully in his film "Happiness."

[quote] If anybody is to blame for goofy-assed schemes to "crack down on underage drinking" and "win the war on drugs" it is . . .

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Ronald Reagan. He is the one who initiated the second round of the "War on Drugs" (Nixon initiated the first). He is also the one who signed the federal law in 1984 that required all the states to raise their drinking age to 21 or else lose federal highway funds.

Yeah, & regardless to your polotical ideology, it sends mixed messages to the young who are watching the double standards take place. William you are right, who wouldn't want to help thier offspring. I don't claim to have all the answers. In my opinion it looks bad @ the beginning of last year in a press junket G W said "Drugs or wrong period, end of discussion. & the participants should go to jail!!" [Very forcefully]. OK. As embarrasing as it is, his niece should be no eceptions. There are reasons why drug screening is required on jobs.

Which I found equally disturbing. Whoever Noell's employers are, they have now said publicly twice, she can always have her job back. Man, as liberal as I am & would never think for firing somebody for something they do privately. yet I wonder if she weren't Jebb's daughter would they still be as empathetic

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: SELECTIVE_SOLDIER4U ]

The cocaine, it turns out, was "crack." A ROCK OF CRACK.

So will Noelle receive the same penalties that poor people caught with crack--especially with a prior drug arrest record and violations of parole-- receive? What are the laws in Florida?

I personally believe that Noelle and ALL other drug users should be getting serious rehabilitative help instead of imprisonment, but then I am a liberal and usually would pursue rehabilitation efforts over punitive ones. Since she has shown that her addiction is serious, and that she feels the laws don't apply, perhaps she should get prison. But let's try serious treatment first--for her and other users.

Arianna Huffington: "Maybe her Uncle George can get her an audition for the next round of taxpayer-funded ads. Show her pulling some crack out of her shoe while saying, 'I helped blow up buildings'"

[quote]Originally posted by DCBucky:
Arianna Huffington: "Maybe her Uncle George can get her an audition for the next round of taxpayer-funded ads. Show her pulling some crack out of her shoe while saying, 'I helped blow up buildings'"

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Damn thats good!! I wish I had thought of that!

This entire article is excellent:
http://www.ariannaonline.com/columns/files/091602.html

Raze, if Arianna finds out how much you like her, she might want to marry you.

She would be barking up the wrong tree!
Plus I dont have her ex husbands checkbook!

[quote]Originally posted by RazorbackTX:
She would be barking up the wrong tree!

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Arianna's barked up that tree before ...

Arianna Huffington is bats&$t crazy. You should read Ed Rollins' book "Bare Knuckles and Back Rooms," or something like that. He worked on the Huffington campaign. She's nuts. I don't even think she's all that funny.

Here's a take on this from Christopher Caldwell in the NY Press (since I know you guys value my opinion, I highly recommend Mr. Caldwell's column):

See the Second Part of the Column