http://www.kfor.com/Global/story.asp?S=1175281


I guess Colin Powell should next warn us that Iraq maybe planning to attack us with paper airplanes, better start the bombing.

you have to be careful with stories like these. This "model airplane" looking thing was voluntarily shown by the iraqis. It does not mean that there are no other (more sophisticated) drones that they may not be showing us.

[ March 12, 2003, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: ung ]

This is true, but the way this administration has lied, used forged documents ect to make its case against Iraq I take everything they say with a grain of salt. They would lie when the truth is a better story.

ung, i have to agree. they could be pulling a propaganda ploy. what disturbs me in all this is i don't automatically believe my own government in issues like this. at this point, bush/condi/rummy/powell have put forth as many lies, under the guise of intelligence, no less, that i actually have to pause and weigh the evidence before i decide who to believe.

that is your point, i believe, in the instant case. but it is sad that we can't take our own government's pronouncements at face value....

I'm not disagreeing with ya on that. but remember, Hussein is a liar too. It's not just Bush who is lying.

To lighten the mood... Couldnt you have pulled this story out of maybe ummm the wash post or something... OK City????... ARK Boy loves his trailer parks now doesnt he....

It just gets more and more ridiculous...couldn't the U.S. have at LEAST found a real plane that could have been mistaken for a drone? The ineptness of these people is really worrying me. They're casting about for anything to have this war, which leads me to believe with increasing conviction that the truth of it is being hidden from us because most Americans would have long ago said enough is enough and fought Bush tooth and nail on this.

Here's a photo of the evil "smoking gun".
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor.../170/3hrte.html

I think my 6 year old nephew built one of these in Cub Scouts, I hope Ashcroft/Powell doenst find out about it. On a serious note, I guess we should be concerned with Iraq using duct tape. If Saddam tries to corner the market we could all be in trouble with the White House's plan to keep us all safe.

At least you're using news from Yahoo now, and not the back woods news reports...

Of course Iraq is going to release that picture of the plane, why wouldnt they... then again, were they not responsible to report those things? You're completely one sided when it comes to bush bashing...

How about something more objective, bashes bush and also clinton's bubble economy....

http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/htm...00303130033.asp

actually they did report it in a report to the UN.it was mis-stated as being 12feet in wingspan vs 21 feet (or some figure close to that) in wingspan. and that's why they're saying it wasn't declared.

If that plane is considered a drone - does Iraq need to declare any toys it has in its aresenal? I mean, yes, the object could be used to fly chemical weapons, but not in very large quantities (and my understanding of most chemical and biological agents is they need huge quantities to effect mass casualties). But the point is, what is considered a weapon of mass destruction?

This just in:

Inspectors find 2 Nerf guns, a case of extra large rubber bands and a cache of spitballs.

RUN - HIDE - BREAK OUT THE DUCT TAPE!!!!!!!!!!!

I think they are still looking for human shields, maybe you can help them out?

Comments:

The story on the Oklahoma City TV station's website had an Associated Press byline.

Don't laugh at balsa wood. The gliders used by paratroops in WWII weren't any too substantial, but the Germans learned to take them seriously. Sort of like - box cutters.

Have you ever seen any of Paul MacCready's aircraft?
http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/...read_condor.htm

>>
Dr. Paul B. MacCready and Dr. Peter B. S. Lissaman, both of Pasadena, California, designed the Gossamer Condor, which is made of thin aluminum tubes covered with mylar plastic and braced with stainless steel wires. The leading edges are made of corrugated cardboard and styrene foam.
<<

Corrugated cardboard? Bwahahahaha. Oh, wait; he won the £50,000/$95,000 Kremer Prize with it. Never mind.

http://www.findarticles.com/m3125/16_71/55...1/article.jhtml

>>
....
The airframe is so intricate, flimsy, and aeroelastic that defining it for a computer analysis would have taken too much time, says Dr. MacCready. And had he been able to model the craft on a computer, he would have had confidence in the calculated results only if they had been verified by testing. So he felt it would be faster to resort to the oldest of engineering procedures, using a make-and-break approach to arrive at a minimum-weight design.

"A quick-and-dirty approach," says Dr. MacCready, "is sometimes the most appropriate and elegant method in the early stages of a pioneering design. If a part broke, we replaced it with a member that was heavier and sturdier. If a part never broke, we made it lighter and, consequently, flimsier." He points out that this is what intense structural optimization requires when calculations do not play a major role in the process. The fact that the craft was always flown low and slow made destructive flight tests safe and feasible.
....
<<

If I understand correctly, the Iraqis are allowed to own UAV's, as long as those UAV's cannot fly farther than 150 km. There is no limit on wingspan, weight, and so forth.

Just like us, they show you what they want you to see.

[ March 12, 2003, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: twin58 ]

Also, though, couldn't our Air Force (though it couldn't seem to scramble fighter jets to stop the 9/11 hijackers even 30 minutes after the planes were known to be bearing towards New York and Washington) take this damned balsa wood-and-duck tape aeromissile out??? I mean, we are paying billions of dollars for stealth bombers and supersonic fighter jets and our own highly sophisticated, guided drones, so why on earth are we getting our drawers twisted over this flimsy thing? And yes, the Germans may have learned to respect balsa wood craft, but THAT WAS 50 YEARS AGO!

All I have to say is, if this is the best we can come up with, we're really casting about for straws.

What I'm saying is, don't discount it because it's crude. Sometimes crude works - as in the case of box cutters.

UAV's have a top speed of maybe 100 mph. You could intercept this with a helicopter or another UAV, snag it with a net, and drag it to some location where it could be set down where it doesn't pose a hazard.

Not true. I enjoy bashing him from all sides.

I have no doubt that drones could work, and that these drones could be used to spread some form of agent. My problem is that there would have to be hundreds, if not thousands, of drones launched at once, to do any kind of real damage.

More importantly, the Iraqi's don't need to create their own drones to have this kind of "weapon." There must be commercially available "toys" (I know that most model, functional, airplanes are far more complicated than children's toys) that could either have the same effect, or be modified to do so.

Which begs the question, when is a weapon a weapon? And when is it a weapon of mass destruction? I don't know the answers to this, or more important, if the UN resolutions actually define what is a weapon of mass destruction. To be a "smoking gun" the "weapon" would have to bear some resemblence to some item that the UN has defined as a WMD - it should not be a decision left to the inspectors or, God forbid, our current administration.

The corollary on the box cutters would be - a felon who upon parole is barred from owning any weapons. Yet, a box cutter, or a good knife, or a scarf for that matter, can be used as a weapon, so the felon needs to have a definition or list of items that are considered "weapons" in order to comply with terms of parole. I just don't know whether the UN, the US or anyone has been that clear on what WMDs really are.

Sec. Powell now concerned that spitballs could be "dusted with anthrax" and launched at U.S. via a "giant wind machine."

Im off to Home Depot to get more duct tape.
Maybe Ill stop off for some "freedom fries" on the way, ummmmmmmmmmmmm yummy.

Twin58, I'm not discounting it and I hear what you're saying.

But let me ask again: we are spending BILLIONS of dollars every year for a national defense and military that certainly would not be deterred by balsawood aircraft, right? Couldn't a US remote controlled guided missile take these things out? If not, doesn't our military have something to answer for?