"She (GLAAD's Cathy Renna) called the offer to Savage part of a "constellation of events going on at MSNBC which are very worrying" to the GLBT community. Conservative voices are not new to cable networks, but Savage, said Renna, is a "name-caller," not a "commentator." In comparison with Savage, Republican Dick Armey looks fit to be "the grand marshall of next year's Pride parade," she said.

While it's one thing to hear him lashing out on right-wing radio, Renna noted that it's quite another thing to see Savage air his views on a so-called news network, as part of what is theoretically considered a team of journalists."

- - - - -

We'll have to see how this pans out, but a hire of Savage would probably be one of the single, most homophobic acts inflicted on our society by big business. eek! frown

[ March 04, 2003, 05:48 AM: Message edited by: bluebird48234 ]

Ummm...
Who are you talking about? Who is Savage. Where did your quotes come from?

** :confused: trying to read Bluebird's mind :confused: **

Isn't he the gay guy that writes a sex column? ( Dan Savage) He's not homophobic in my book.

[ March 03, 2003, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: copman ]

Dan Savage is a columnist and an entirely different person. I believe the full name of the guy in question is Michael Savage.

Thank Orsino. I wish Bluebird had put more information in his original post to explain this situation. Now since you've given me a name, I did a quick google search and I was shocked at what I found.

I'm surprised this hasn't come up as a discussion topic earlier. This guy, Michael Savage, sounds like scum and MSNBC has signed him up for a weekly show on Saturdays. With the backlash that has already started, and with the success of the Stop Dr. Laura campaign, I'd be surprised if his show ever makes it on the air.

Here's a link to an editorial about Savage.

And there is a website, MichaelSavageSucks.com, that has links to several articles about MSNBC's plans, as well as plans to boycott sponsors.

Here is GLAAD's take on the situtation.

[ March 03, 2003, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: maxallen ]

This Savage is a very scary guy, he makes Rush seem like a real liberal. Its a damn shame that MSNBC is giving him a platform to spew his hate. I like MSNBC a lot but this is a very sad day for them

Savage is a homophobic hate-monger. He makes Rush Limbaugh look like Truman Capote. He must be stopped. eek!

The link Max Allen provided invites you to e-mail head honchos @ MSNBC, which I will be doing right after I post this message.

I just got done e-mailing Bill and Melinda Gates. I told them I thought it was ironic they administer a scholarship program for young students of color, but have this a$$hole (well, I didn't use that language exactly) working for MSNBC. You can e-mail them, too...just follow this link and scroll down the page a little.
http://www.mediawhoresonline.net/main.htm

My feeling is this: if Savage is going to say what he says, he's got to get some feedback. He has a right to be as crass and nasty as he wants, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Or be silent about it.

"A very scary guy"
"Must be stopped"

Listen to yourselves, oh ye who deem to pass judgment on who should and should not be on TV. The hypocrisy is appalling. Are we on the left (though I am an avowed Independent/Libertarian) who preach freedom of speech and other such liberties going to demand that people we think are idiots be kept off the airwaves?

Dr. Laura was run off the air by those who demand their own kind be kept on the air, and it sickened me. Only one type of person should be allowed to have a show--those who are pro-gay? Poppycock.

I say let them all have their own shows, especially the Savage's and Dr. Laura's. That way people can realize just what caustic bimbos those persons truly are.

I dont care if a person is pro gay or not, the reason i think the guy is scary is the pure hate he spews in his radio show. Not just gay, racial hate and some his views in my opinion are right out the KKK and Hitler. I agree with you that all voices have a right to be heard but i think its sad that they are thinking about putting a guy on national tv with such views as he has

Everyone: I had the article up (when I was creating the thread), but I forgot to add the link before posting.

On MICHAEL Savage:

Link

"Savage is a "shock jock" known for his attacks on "homosexual perversion," "the degenerates on the left," "the she-ocracy" of America, "turd-world nations," and "the freaks, the cripples, the perverts and the mental defectives" who are taking over the United States."

and...

"There's a whole lot of concern," said Renna. "It's not just a gay issue. There's a diverse set of people who are not going to sit idly by, and watch him get a national platform, and not voice their opinion."

- - - - -

Double check that you have the right guy: MICHAEL Savage is the man in question.

Another link

- - - - -

Dan Savage is a totally different man; and, may get some unfortunate press out of this because he is a writer that does a racy column (he might be nationally syndicated - at least, I have seen his columns in papers all over the nation) and talks freely about sexual issues.

http://www.citypages.com/savagelove/

Nevertheless, DAN Savage is actually the OPPOSITE in terms of values: he actually defends LGBTs in print when homophobes write in to him.....

Crazy. (I hope DAN Savage doesn't suffer too much from any potential mixups.)

[ March 04, 2003, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: Tarkus ]

Hey guys, I know this will not be popular opinion, but here goes...I listen to talk radio quite a bit and I have listened to the Micheal Savage show, "The Savage Nation". Every thing that you say about him is true, is petulant, boorish, racist, sexist, and homophobic. I understand that he is on in 300 markets in the US. Anyone who buys into his political rantings have leanings in that direction anyway. Why people have defend their lifestyle as the only true and correct way to live is beyond me. I wish there were more voices of reason on talk radio, but I have sneaking suspcion that "voices of reason" tend to be more rational and calm in their approach, therefore boring to listen to. The absolutist get the air time because they stir emotion therefore getting YOU to listen longer which increases ratings, which increases advertisment fees that the stations can charge.
One more thing...the guy is an intellectual clown, I don't take him seriously, but I understand that some may hang on to his every word. I do not stand for censorship even when I strongly disagree with what the other person is saying.

I'm an avowed progressive liberal, but I say let the guy on the air. I just wish they'd balance him out with an intelligent, younger progressive voice, but no, it's the same thing, these endless middle-aged white male yawping heads. I did like Ambassador Dr. Allan Keyes's show, even though we are diametrically opposed politically and ideologically. But that guy was very smart.

Let MSNBC become the clown station. They've already got Chris Matthews. Mike Savage is just about right. Anything for dollars.....

Savage on MSNBC is the same old same old, and I'm tired of it. I'm tired of having racists, sexist, homophobic shit spewed at and about me. I've reached my limit, damn it.

It'd be just as easy to get one of the kids from Def Poetry Jam to host or co-host a show. But Noooooooo, they go for another offensive "shock jock."

I'd like to believe that if MSNBC got an earful, they might actually support someone ELSE's freedom of speech for once. Like, I dunno, an anchor who is queer or queer positive, or...call me crazy, a woman or a person of color.

So I for one will continue to feel pissed off and indignant. I'm f-ing done making it easy for people like Savage and MSNBC to make a profit from prejudic, bigotry, and hatred. If Savage is going to say hateful shit, he, and his producers, are going to have to respect my freedom of speech to give them some grief.

I have already written to NBC, and am personally boycotting their network while this guy has a show, I will also be writing to all their advertisers.

There is a huge difference among government censorship - which is completely illegal under the First Amendment and private censorship, that is, stopping a person's voice from being heard at all, and trying to get a commercial network, which has access to the airwaves and cable systems of America for the public good. No one is trying to deny Mr. Savage his radio show (although I don't think he should be on the air at all), or his publishing deal - hell, we're not even trying to get Barnes and Noble to stop stocking his books. He has freedom of speech - but he's a liar! He says gay people want to make everyone else gay (hell, the str8s can have him) - he links all supposed liberals together in the kind of conspiracy theory that even Art Bell's listeners would find hard to fathom. He has also threatened any group that opposes him with legal and financial destruction - he seems mentally unbalanced. This is like Network come to life.

However I would be happy to have his show air whenever and whereever MSNBC wants, on one condition - he has to go to participate in one practice of any of the gay rugby teams in the country (and I mean full hitting here - not just sprints). One experience with just how "weak" those guys are and he might be singing a different tune.

So, cpt will allow any freedom as speech, so long as it's what you likes to hear, what you think is fair... ie pro-gay. Let me ask you, if you support the dumb little chic who wont solute the flag, why not this man? Is he not stating his opinion? If you support her, you support him.

Would i agree with alot of this dope says? probably not, but i would bet it would be one entertaining show to watch... People would watch just cause he made them mad.

I dont get it... BOYCOT BOYCOT, blah blah they are not pro-gay, boycot... let's squash them... Like it or not, at the end of the day, some people agree with the issue and some dont. The in your face style, that turns more people off...The same will can be said for savage.

People are getting so fed up with the "PC" world... savage, you cant say that, you just offended people... more power to him.

Aww, Phillyfan, get a grip...

Freedom of speech is one thing as demonstrated by she who won't salute the flag. Hate speech, bigotry, and homophobic slurs are a whole other thing. Michael Savage may be purposely inciting his audience in order to get ratings and attract the numerous right wing morons he desires but that hardly means blacks, jews, women, gays, or anyone else that he encourages discrimination and potentially violence against will sit back and let him. No one's asking him to be pro-gay but if he's going to actively diss millions of individuals and entire communties - he and MSNBC are going to hear about it and he'll hopefully be run right off the air.

Phillyfan: you said: "More Power to him."
Well, perhaps you should welcome Savage into your household and your airwaves: I'm sure the barely literate are just the audience he's looking for...

Phillyfan, of course Michael Savage has every right to free speech, just as much as you and me. However we also have the right to excercise our free speech in the form of protest. No one is suggesting that his show be outlawed, simply that we excercise our right to protest in the form of letter-writing and boycotting. It's the American way!!!

On one hand I agree with you Phillyfan, that his show (if it ever makes it to the air) will be so over-the-top that it may be laughably entertaining to watch. However, if he resorts to the repugnant, hate-filled speech that characterizes his radio show, he stands a very good chance of inciting hate in legions of others. An evil, wrong-minded hate that will be expressed violently among those inclined towards violence. His type of speech is the equivalent of shouting "fire" in a crowded movie theater, which will lead to the death and injury of innocents. If protesting and keeping his show off the air can prevent one gay hate crime, it will be worth it to supress his speech.

[ March 04, 2003, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: maxallen ]

Whether or not I exist, or any gay people exist, is not an \"opinion.\" Whether or not the gay people of this country are after little children is not an \"opinion.\" Whether or not gay people are a threat to our society is not an \"opinion.\" This man is not stating any opinions, he is engaging in propoganda, pure and simple, no better than the Klu Klux Klan.

Economic boycotts have been at the forefront of the civil rights movement since the first black college students refused to move from their lunch counter seats. And they should have been arrested, right Phillyfan? After all, there were some people, at that time, who disagreed with the issue that black people were equal human beings to white people. I thought this country had reached a point where such blatant discrimination was the product of only fringe groups, but MSNBC wants to use this ranting and hatred, these outright LIES, to push ratings.

The real problem with Savage is not that the public at large is going to agree with him - the real problem is that there are a number of young, mostly male, listeners who will agree with him. A group of young men who need someone to blame for their anger, etc., and will use Savage's scapegoats for their focus. Take a look at the letter on MichaelSavageSucks.com from the 15 year old \"Christian.\" That is the kind of listener that Savage is creating - he is basically inciting violence. I, for one, do not want to have to worry about any more young str8 boys trying to prove their \"manhood\" by beating up on gays. I don't want to be the one at the other end of the bat when one of his listeners decides he is part of the \"war\" that Savage likes to proclaim, and is eliminating the \"threat to public health\" that gay people represent.

Bryan, there is no point to getting insulting to other board posters, no matter what their personal style.

I think the whole idea behind writing to MSNBC is to tell them that we're part of their audience too ... so even if they consider their advertisers, rather than their readers, to be their customers (which is likely), do they want to alienate a chunk of the "product" (eyeballs) that they're selling to their advertisers?? Not if they're smart, and especially not in a recession. That's not censorship ... that's market economics, and we're part of the market. If they don't like it, they can kiss our dollars (or the dollars of advertisers who want our business) goodbye until they get a clue.

#1 i have not heard savage on tv, but i think he was on hannity and colmes once... i think. I dont remember him making any "hateful" comments.

Then again, you see the "womens" groups for example, come out and say he's a really bad guy.. ect ect... Here is what i think of these little focus groups... they lose sight of the big issue. Did any of you see the miller lite commercial? With the 2 chics who started fighting then said, let's make out! That had to be the funniest commercial of the year. But here comes the women beating their chest... thats bad thats bad.. Was the commercial making fun of women or were they making fun of every str8 guys dream? when you break it down, it was jsut plain funny. In todays society you cant even make a joke without one of these little groups getting mad.

Yes, i watch O'rielly for the same reason, shock value. I dont agree with some of the things he says, but he always makes a point and sticks with it. If you agree with him, fine. If not, i dont think he cares. He's not afraid to bash groups he supports if they do something stupid.

This sounds like everyone wants to to turn savage into the next dr laura... what was done to her was sad, very sad. I listened to this lady, every bit of advice i heard from her came down to her saying, use your common sense. Because she spoke out against gays, she was crushed just for having an opinion which does not agree with yours.

Hey, maybe i am not the deep thinker you all are, but well... sorry. I guess msnbc is after my viewership and not yours. I'd sit and watch savage to make up my own mind, Glaad doesnt need to tell me how to think. How many people boycotted dr laura without actually listening to her on their own?

Savage exists because people get mad at these little groups... look at the whole pledge controversy... maybe a handful of people dont like GOD in there, so they make everyone else suffer. Let's sue... so as to not offend 1 people you offend the other 99. Thats where the audience comes from.

The poor embattled white straight man, it's such a tough thing to be. Just ask Eminem, he asks if you've "ever been discriminated against." He really needs a voice.

Whatever, no one watches MSNBC anyway, I don't want this guy to have a job personally. I think he has every right to say what he wants, but I don't want it commercially promoted because that means there's a market out there that agrees with him and worth MSNBC's time and money.

Just as he has freedom of speech, so do we, and if we choose to use that to try and get him off the air, it's should make you just as happy. We're just exerting the same rights you want to protect for him.

Yes, I did listen to Dr. Laura because at the time, I was trying to "convert." I have heard and read Savage and I think he's just a nutcase. I don't think MSNBC will really up their ratings.

I knwo people are disagreeing with you pretty aggressively Phillyfan, but I hope you can stay around and still enjoy the boards.

Is it really so difficult to understand that freedom of speech certainly gives one the right to his/her opinion. But when that opinion advocates violence and discrimination, or in Dr. Laura's case suggests that all homosexuals are God's aberrations, a line has been crossed. If Dr. Laura said that all mentally retarded people or Jews or Black people were God's aberrations, don't you think the outcry would be just as loud and angry? Sure, some of Dr. Laura's advice is basic common sense; of course she doesn't seem to apply it very well to her own life but whatever, right? As long as she spoon feeds the masses her Bible-lite spiel, she's got a willing audience who can barely think for themselves.

When Phillyfan says "More Power to Him" about a racist homophobic bigot like Savage who's contributing to a right wing nutcase culture of violence and hatred, than I'm pissed off and will certainly tell him what I think of his poorly thought out opinions. And I assure you that I'm being as polite as possible in this situation.

I'm just raising a debate.... altho i've been accused of being some christian fundamentalist. Did i spell that right?

I just find it odd that the same people who defend the little lady who wont look at the flag in the middle of a military academy will try to squash this mans opinion. Let him have his dumb little show... let the stupid little girl not look at the flag.

I think i've personally done just as much for us concerning the whole gay/anti-gay issue. When i meet people i'm just me, just do my thing. I'm not a sexuality, i'm just me. So, when the time actually comes up that it comes out... most people say really? ie it's changed alot of the stereo-types.... Let savage do his thing, and i'll do mine and not worry about it.

Phillyfan, I oddly find myself kind of liking you in an strange sort of forbidden bad-boy-liking kind of way.

You said you're not a deep thinker, and neither am I. I've been told that to my face. But deep thinker or not, you must see the connection between Savage's "opinions" and the hate and violence that it could incite. You say let him do his thing and you won't worry about it. After reading all of these other posts, don't you see that you and I and everyone else here could be on the receiving end of a bat and hung up on a fence to die because of the "opinions" he spews forth? That, you should worry about.

[ March 04, 2003, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: maxallen ]

I have not heard the savage show... I will reserve judgement until then. Someone said that "if you thought limbaugh was bad"... I throw limbaugh on alot when drivin for lunch, and well if you guys thinks he's bad... then...

As far as getting beat up... I really dont live my life worrying about that stuff, if it's gonna happen it's gonna happen. Admit it or not, these folks are going to have the same opinion no matter what savage does. The same goes against anyone else who doesnt like a certain race for whatever reason.

the good stuff is, am i a bad-boy? if so, then they better watch out... dunno if i've ever been accused of being a bad boy... bad-boys are always the cool ones anyway, heh heh...

Maxallen and PhillyFan, get a freakin' room in a hotel already!

Please dont be jealous.

Alas, I've already got a bad boy hubby at home. wink He's holding down the sofa in the living room, pissed off because our local NBC station pre-empted the new Let's Make a Deal to show a Billy Graham Crusade.

Probably not.

On this board, PhillyFan, we try to abide by at least three important social rules (an online community is STILL a community of human beings).

1/Anyone is free to "spark" a debate, as long as you are responsible for its intent, receipt (by other readers), and its handling on the board. Defensiveness is not necessary, nor is it attractive.

2/Spelling, grammar, and textual clarity is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. We have taken this up before because people used to leave posts unchecked for grammar, spelling, bad links, etc. If it's a "quickie", and one word is misspelled, no one's going to complain. But, as we are trying to create a discussion that anyone in the world can see, I think that pride in decent writing is a reasonable expectation.

P.S.: It's always good form to provide links to show where/how you got the information. We ARE willing to check out what you are wanting to assert; nevertheless, we are not here to have our intelligences insulted.

3/We are on this board to get to know each other. If you don't like us, hey...that's OKAY! Hugs never required, although mutual respect IS. But, don't expect us to change for you when you are not trying to compromise with us, see our points, and "dialog" with us. No matter how strong (and reasonable, for that matter) your viewpoint, you will never get 100% agreement (I, personally, don't vote for that, anyway). That said, it is best to keep an open mind - 'cuz some of are truly smart, well-read, potent researchers who might do a background check on your sources JUST to be able to play the devil's advocate.

- - - - -

Not a sermon, just a brochure .

[ March 05, 2003, 05:08 AM: Message edited by: bluebird48234 ]

Bluebird, do you want to be my spelling-grammer cop from sumthin i posted wrong?

I dont think this is some term paper with 10 links to different aricles where everyone looks at the post and says... what the @#$@#$@%^#@ is that dude talking about....

The real question is, you posted that at 5am in the morning? I cant get up at 7am without being totally cranky.... 5am, is the sun up at that time?

dude! Now that's funny!

Here in SF we've had Savage for several years now (he started as a local host on KSFO, our local "hate-talk" station, then got syndicated). Unlike Rush, who was a radio vet before becoming a star, and who knows how to use the medium to entertain his core audience, Savage is just a hateful blowhard. He is also Jewish (real name: Wiener) which is interesting considering how many right-wing groups he is in bed with now. He was a writer and teacher before getting into radio. In fact he got in big trouble here because he was heavily promoting books written under his real name on the show -- without mentioning that Michael Wiener and Michael Savage were the same person, and without paying for commercial time (a big radio no-no).

Funny, this lecture from the person who started this thread with a complete and utter lack of information and/or links, leaving it up to us (as usual) to figure out what the heck you were talking about. BB, you're an interesting guy who starts a lot of intriguing Non-Sports Related Topics, but please try to practice what you preach.

Maxallen is a bad boy too! Too bad he's got a bf.

Actually forget Savage, i think i need my own show in MSNBC... Now that would be intresting tv. My first guest would be bluebird live via satilite from Detroit.

Hey, my ratings couldnt be any worse than Donahue's were....

Right.....

Does this mean you wont be the first guest on my msnbc show?

Woo Hoo! Bad, and funny too!

Yeah, it was right, wasn't it? wink
Thank you. :cool:

[ March 05, 2003, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: maxallen ]

The times shown on this board are Pacific time. I checked bluebird's profile and it shows he's from Detroit, so he actually posted it at 8 am his time.

that explains alot, then again... it doenst explain what the heck he's trying to say 1/2 the time......

No, no.....no.

I am commuting these days between Fiji and Oz. I actually get going around 2:15a. eek! eek!

Can someone explain the figi oz thing to us "simple" folks...

Oh Lord, when they're liberal and suffering from split personality syndrome with abysmal self-esteem, they make us laugh (Roseanne Barr Arnold); but when they're conservative and suffering from the same sorts of problems, we get the Mike Savages, Ward Connerlys, Clarence Thomases, and Terry Dolans of the world....

PLEASE, therapists out there, rabbis, reverends, priests (well, we can let the priests watch), work your healing arts on this guy, immediately!

[ March 06, 2003, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

I'm assuming he means the Fijian islands and australia is "Oz". But to be honest, with Bluebird.... he may be out there with Dorothy and Toto wearing red heels on top of the wicked witch for all we know.

I hear you with this, and I think they should balance it out with straight men showing their undersized genitalia and opening their empty wallets and struggling to say something funny and charming as opposed to being tiresome losers, which would make most straight guys quail, but which are three things many women might find funny. Not going to happen anytime soon....

I agree with Philly.

the commercial of the fighting women was a hoot. and it was, in fact, making fun of dumbass straight boys who fantasize about lesbian trysts between hot chicks. also at the end of the commercial were 2 guys saying "yeah that would be a great commercial" and then the camera pans to 2 women who look at them with expressions that say "you guys are such idiots!"

it was funny. and it got across the women's perspectives too.

So lets assume this was the same womens group speaking out against savage that was screaming about the funny commmercial.... at what time do you stop listening to their arguements... savage would have been valid and correct, but fighting the stupid fight makes you pay no attention to what they have to say...

you have to balance between rejecting what is being said just because of who is speaking versus judging each argument on its merits alone.

If anyone is not convinced that Savage incites hate with his radio show, take a look at the email GLAAD has received from members of the "Savage Nation."

GLAAD hate email from Savage Listeners

Quite frankly, if this is the kind of reaction Savage gets from his "fans," I believe that alone should disqualify him from a television show. I don't care what he does or does not plan to say on television, and last I heard the "show" was going to be taped from his radio studio, a la Imus, this kind of reaction from listeners shows a media celebrity who has no sense of responsibility.

Wow. You usually don't hear the LGBTs are mentally immature and compromised in social development theories until/unless you get guy drunk and you're hating yourself at the moment...

I honestly thought that line was obsolete.

Not lost on me: the jarring typographical errors that remind me of ransom notes.

Anyway, this is what Savage either stands for or is hoping to incite without having to go to jail or be accountable for the resulting atrocities.

[ March 07, 2003, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: bluebird48234 ]