I must say, you do provide me with much humorous amusement with your paranoid delusions of Republicans and elections. I'd pay good money to look at a picture of you in that tinfoil hat.

Well, MIB, I'd pay even more to see you finally drink that full glass of Kool-Aid in front of you. Bottoms up, mate!

Jimmy Carter level-headedly discusses:
The election of Hugo Chavez
contrasted with a discussion of
The election of George W. Bush

A special presidential commission headed by Jimmy Carter could reform elections in this country to make them fair by international norms.

Thanks for the links, Sportinlife. As Carter notes, not only was Chavez ready to resign if he lost the recall referendum to his hysterical, overwrought opponents, who cannot bear the fact that they no longer have complete control over the country, but as soon as it was confirmed by a CLEAN vote tabulation (unlike here, in 2004) and OAS representatives that he'd won, he tried to initiate a dialogue with his opponents.

As I said before about MIB, he never lets facts or the truth stand in the way, but then should we be surprised? Remember his whole "judiciary" story?

Just admit that you're wrong again and be done with it. I do note that you didn't provide even one fact about Venezuela's recent elections; innuendo and right-wing cant work in Freeperland, but not here.

By the way, if you are still so wedded to the idea of Diebold's machines, here are some wakeup calls:


Wired: California bans Diebold e-voting machines

MSNBC: California seeks criminal probe of e-voting machines

USA Today: High-tech voting accessory: Paper

Florida Senate: Republican-backed bill to eliminate paper trail

Johns Hopkins U computer-security expert Dr. Avi Rubin

True, but will the Dems be an alternative.? They recently made another failed attempt to put forth a coherent policy on Iraq, and have zealously taken on a veneer of religiosity. Is lying low while the Repubs take the storm enough?


It does concern me that the Dems are not taking advantage of Bush's and other Repubs' ever decreasing popularity. But I'm not afraid of the Dems revealing their religious beliefs. I am a Christian. The Republicans don't own religion, just religious fanaticism, i.e., the kooks.

As usual, a moderate approach by the Dems will win more votes than alliance with the hard-core left. That's how we got Clinton and the success that he enjoyed despite the Gingrich-led witch hunt. When the Dems run folks like Dukakis, Kerrey, etc (sorry, New England), we lose. But even the first time I saw Clinton, I knew he was an electable Democrat that voters could support. We need more intelligent candidates like Clinton (remember when it was okay to be smart?) who don't come across as elitists. We need people who can convince the masses that the Dems are still the party of the people and that the Republicans are the party of the rich and greedy. We need candidates who can persuade people that their spiritual beliefs are great, but not to be confused with their role as citizens in supporting freedom for all their countrymen. We need candidates who help Christians remember how to love, not hate.

Guys like Fat Pat are opening the door for us, it's up to us to walk in with credible candidates, not the hard left candidates that most Dems don't even identify with. We need more mainstream candidates that can convince people that accepting differences and being inclusive is the patriotic and American thing to do.

Most people are political moderates - they know the right answers are somewhere between the two extremes that get so much political attention. It makes no sense to keep campaigning to the fringes. They don't have anywhere else to go anyhow.

I'm sorry, with a couple exceptions, the Dems are coming across as political pussies, afraid to be who we need them to be. Just reacting, not leading.

Yeah, I miss Bill.

Story? What "story"? Prove it. You can't, Mr. Liar.

Take off the tinfoil hats already. They're so unbecoming of you.

First it's 2000, then it's 2004. Why is it so difficult for you to accept REALITY??? You are in serious need of some [additional] psychological help. Get it now, man, before it's too late. We're rooting for you.

It is so sad, but predictable, that you have to question every time Bush wins an election. You just can't bear the fact that more Americans voted for him last year than for Kerry, and that he won more electoral votes as well. You are an exact duplicate of those right-wing idiots who absolutely refused to believe Clinton had won election.

No wonder this country is so polarized when delusional people like you are running around.

Nice job of making this up. I didn't personally see it, so it can't be true.

Yeah, because just because John Kerry said it, that's supposed to shut up the Democrats on this board? Come on. Throwing up John Kerry is a red herring here; even those of us who voted for Kerry know that the shades of difference between him and Bush aren't much--Kerry can form (mostly) coherent sentences and seems to possess reasonable intelligence.

Anyway, Chavez enjoys the support of Venezuela's poor and disenfranchised--and not the support of the middle and upper classes (surprise surprise). He supports the radical redistribution of wealth from the top down to the poor. Is he an all around great guy? Hardly, but he's not the Commie Monster that American politicians would like to make him. So, have at, MIB with your circular logic and Rethuglican sloganeering.

Coming from someone who NEVER answers a direct question, never offers ANY proof and well, I could go on for days about the "liar" part. My, how you throw the liar label around these days. It's just SO hypocritical.

I'm glad Pat is in your camp "Judge" Wampner.

Pat's not in MY camp, and I don't want him. Feel free to keep him.

I always cite reliable sources and post nothing but credible reports. Just because some elitist institution escapees refuse to accept reality...well, ain't nothing I can do about that.

Where shall I keep him? I don't have a collection of GOP idiots and not planning to start one.

I didn't say anything about the sources you post, it's the other drivel you spew.

[ August 25, 2005, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: HornFan ]

You're just envious of the independence, wisdom and brilliance I attempt to share with the closed minded people here the likes the world has rarely seen.

Well at least you aren't the least bit sanctimonious "judge".

I know you're just waiting for someone to fall into the trap of saying, "the world has certainly seen their like. They're called the Republican Party." And, of course, you will jump all over that as an admition that people who post here revealing your hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty are closed minded.

So let's just say no one here has anything on the Republican party when it comes to being closed minded.

Hmmm...

Too funny. Too funny.

MIB, I think you need a little reminder. Kool-Aid will do that to your brain. Put down the glass and recall the "election" of Bush in 2000. He WAS NOT ELECTED! Remember how the US Supreme Court came into play in February of 2001? Shame, shame MIB. You being a judge and all, I thought you'd remember the finer points of that "election". As for 2004, thanks to Diebold, he "won" another "election". I don't ever recall another president in the history of the United States having so much trouble getting into office. Why have the facts eluded you?

"Assassination wins!"

Good one MIB, f**king hilarious!!!!

Millerbeach writes: "MIB, I think you need a little reminder. Kool-Aid will do that to your brain. Put down the glass and recall the "election" of Bush in 2000. He WAS NOT ELECTED! Remember how the US Supreme Court came into play in February of 2001?"

Keep spinning those lies, boy... some of them have to stick on something, sometime, at least once, for a little bit.

Bush was elected. He WON the Electoral College vote 271 to 266 and if the GOP had put half the effort contesting the Wisconsin or Missouri tallies that the DOOM-ocrats put into protesting the GOP win in Florida, the Electoral College vote would have been 282+ for Bush.

You guys just can't checkout of reality and expect others to follow blithely... oh wait, you're still working off the HRC playbook for gays. THAT explains it.

Oh, and Pat Robertson apologized.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9047102/

Now let's play fair and you MoonBats go get Cokie, George, Sam, and Newsweek to apology for their earlier calls for Saddam's assassination.

What? Not going? I figured; you guys love to grandstand... no wonder you have a soft spot for Cindy Sheehan.

[ August 26, 2005, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: MiMatt38 ]

Go crawl back inside Karl Rove's ass from whence you were accidentally expelled the last time he hit the men's room.

Oops, you accidentally misspelled a word. Bush wasn't elected, but selected.

Yes he did RIGHT AFTER he said he was misquoted, taken out of context etc. blah, blah. But the video tape DID NOT back up his denial (so Republicanesk), so THEN he finally apologized. What a "Christian", what a true American Patriot, that Pat.

What did our Whitehouse say about Robertson. "Inappropriate". You think?

Ding, only in the minds of the uninformed would folks use "selected" when he was elected.

Elected and re-elected. Set and match.

As 9/11 was the best thing that ever happened for Bush, Bush will be the best thing that ever happened to the Dems. Wait and watch.

MiMatt, when were you born? Are you less than five years old? I guess you just twist history to suit your thinking. It must be a relief to live such a life....you know, never a worry about actual facts getting in the way.

Hate to trouble you with facts, but Bush won Missouri. And yes, his state campaign chairperson in Florida declared him the winner with a wink and a nod from his brother the gov., but nearly every major media source that has done an analysis (USA Today, NY Times, Miami Herald among others) has determined that if the actual votes were counted completely, properly and accurately, that Gore would have in fact won. Gore's campaign screwed up by only insisting on a limited re-count, which gave the US Supreme Court their basis for ending the recounts, which were allowed by the Florida Supreme Court. Had the Gore campaign insisted on a statewide recount, the official outcome likely would have been different.

But that's like p*ssin' in the wind. None of this makes any difference. Bush was declared the winner and unfortunately we cannot change history. But as someone who lives in Florida, in the so-called "ground zero" of the chaos of the 2000 election, I like to remind people what actually happened so hopefully we can prevent it from happening again. That's one of among many reasons that Katherine Harris must be defeated when she runs for Senate against Sen. Nelson.

Oh, and to keep the thread on topic...Pat Robertson is a moron. I'm not big on the Bible, but I'm pretty sure there's no passage in there about 'Thou shalt call for a hit on those with whom one disagrees.'

[ August 29, 2005, 12:30 AM: Message edited by: so fla ref ]

I had not noticed that Katrina is a variant of Katherine. What a spooky coincidence.

I wonder which could do more damage in Florida. Ms. Harris would certainly do more to the nation.

Look; I know what you're getting at, but Pat Robertson is anything but a moron. Phi Beta Kappa at W&L, with the Marines in Korea, Yale Law: that's somewhat more than I've manged to accomplish.

An Excerpt From Pat Robertson's Biography



[ August 29, 2005, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: twin58 ]

The man may be well educated, but the comments he made are certainly moronic. If fact, his comments are worse considering his level of education. As a graduate of Yale law school, he should certainly know that it is illegal for the US to assassinate. It is a shame anyone gives this man's comments the time of day.His comments were not only moronic, but dangerous as well. He is a supposed man of God and he has incited violence on many occasions. It is good to see him roundly criticized for his latest round of lunacy. Hopefully this incident will expose him for what he is to any of his remaining followers.

The following is from yesterday's Seattle Post-Intelligencer; it is good to see that some church authorities are not allowing Robertson and his ilk to "own" Christianity:

"As religious leaders, we are shocked and discouraged by the comments of Pat Robertson endorsing the assassination of the president of Venezuela. Have we slipped so far into a culture of violence that even certain parts of the Christian church embrace it as a legitimate expression of social policy?

"Not us and not our church.

"The path of peace needs to be explored; such comments as Robertson's block that path. He should keep his murderous opinions to himself. By advocating such violence, he has denied the Prince of Peace whom he claims to follow.

"We distance ourselves from his statements in the strongest terms possible. He does not speak for the church, he does not speak for Jesus, he does not speak for God. It is time for people of good faith to stand up to such war mongering and hate speech."

Bishops Vincent Warner
and Nedi Rivera
The Episcopal Diocese of Olympia

My father once told me that all the papers (meaning degrees and other such stuff) in the world doesn't mean you can't be an idiot. I think my dad was right.

MIB, I agree completely - I've worked with a lot of educated idiots. About anyone can get degreed these days if they just show up long enough.

twin58, OK, feel free to substitute whatever you'd like. Moron was the first that came to my mind. It was late, I was tired.

Dinger, as my father also said, even the smartest people in the world often have no common sense. wink

"... twin58, OK, feel free to substitute whatever you'd like...."

Personally, I think the guy's an idiot. Like that's so much different. Smart, but no sense.

Pat Robertson's Katrina Cash

I don't pretend to speak for Jesus Christ, but didn't he have a lot to say about people who horde money, hypocrites, and all? Robertson sure seems to be doing much of what his Savior would not approve.

Blame Ellen:

http://datelinehollywood.com/archives/2005...-to-host-emmys/

Well, now it's all clear to me. I had no idea God was that interested in the Emmys. Where's Rosie's hometown? I need to make sure I have no plans to go near there.

I swear, it's one thing to make light of these people, but it's also scary. Haven't I seen commercials for meds that could help these people?

It saddens me that for many people, this is the face of the Christain faith that they see, and understandably, turn away from. It saddens me even more that more don't turn away from Robertson's brand of hatred.

You know I always thought that in times of trouble, when people would ask why really horrible things would happen (you know, like Katrina), most religious people would answer somewhere along the lines of "it's not for us to question God's plan, you have to have faith". I mean, if we knew all along Pat had an answer for everything, life sure would have been a lot easier.

He is an absolute disgrace to mankind and people of faith around the world.

Yes, but not only makes me sad, it also frightens me. This gives a tacit approval for more crimes against gay people. There are plenty of whackos willing to kill a fag for God!

I have been searching for more on this story. Why hasn't this been picked up by any of the major news outlets?

Oh come on! Is he for real? Was he serious? Obviously this guy has some sort of disorder and is in serous need of medication. Are you really allowed to use the American airwaves to promote hatred. Scary to think that some of his 1 million viewers take this nutbar seriously and could even think the same way. Can't someone file a complaint with the FCA?

I checked it out: the Robertson/Degeneres story is False: http://www.snopes.com/politics/katrina/robertson.asp

It turns out that Dateline Hollywood is a satirical website: http://www.latimes.com/technology/la-ca-we...ack=1&cset=true

Keltic... your research is better than mine. But seriously, couldn't you just imagine that he could say this??

LOL, jokes on us apparently, but yes it did sound as if those words could have come easily out of Pat's mouth.

absolutely could imagine Robertson saying something like that! Especially after I read this: http://www.repentamerica.com/pr_hurricanekatrina.html and this is not a joke.

who knew that giving a bj was that powerful?