This is absolutely bizarre to us non-Californians... The implications of this are jaw-dropping -- a new governor elected with a mere 100,000 votes? You voted for him, you're stuck with him.

Should recalling a governor be so simple? (SF Chronicle)


And William Safire agrees it's a bad idea...

yup, the election was what 7 months ago? and the powers that be are pissed with what grey davis is doing? albeit the job he's doing is terrible, however he did win a public electoin by the people correct? dan issa and his rich buddies are wasting our time and money with this crap.

Although I don't live in California, now, I do hear and read alot about this. What Issa is trying to do is reprehensible as far as I am concerned. The Republicans are desperate to gain control of the Governorship down there. I can't comment on the job that Davis is doing, but I do know he has one of the worst state budget nightmares in the country right now. Correct me if I am wrong, but Californias' budget deficit is about $8 Billion dollars?

Bill W,

This isn't so much anti-Democratic as it's just plain silly--and stupid. Numerous states have laws on the books permitting for recall elections. It's just that California seems to be the noisiest one, especially since they've had a recall drive mounted after just about every election in the last 30 years or so.

Republicans ought to be very careful there. It's the ole "Be careful what you wish for" scenario. Do they recall Davis and get rid of him, only to be saddled with so many problems that it further hurts their chances in November 2004? Or do they leave well enough alone, realizing that Davis will drag down the Democrats in November 2004?

This is nothing more than an ego trip for Issa.

So, basically, it's a write-in-vote to determine who the next governor will be? And if he is "recalled", will Davis sue or is that not possible? (Sorry, I've been trying to keep up with this issue, but there's been a lot of other stuff going on lately.)

So, basically, this "recall" could invalidate the votes of nearly 22 million people, based upon 900,000 signatures or so. If this goes through, this is going to set a bad precedent.

[ June 27, 2003, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: antarctica17 ]

I am fully behind the recall vote. Gray Davis is a moron and a liar. Davis claimed that everything was fine and dandy before the election and went to extraordinary lengths to convince the public of it. TWO WEEKS after his re-election he announces the state has a $38 (not 8) Billion dollar deficit.

Some cynics and Dems protest that all politicians lie, so where's the harm? That doesn't make it excusable, and Davis' rises above the typical waffling to nearly criminal behavior.

I do not like the fact that Issa is funding this campaign and is hoping to claim the governorship himself. It feels really slimy. I would feel much better if someone else replaces Davis.

For those non-Californians, if Davis is ousted, it's a complete free-for-all regarding his replacement. Whoever gets the most votes wins. He could be replaced by another Democrat just as easily as a Republican, though many Dems are scared to throw their names in the hat because it means they are abandoning Davis.

As for invalidating 22M votes, the recall does nothing of the sort. Those same 22M people can decide to keep Davis. Just because a recall election is held does not mean the fall's results are overturned. They are simply up for confirmation or rejection by the voting public. And for the record, I believe CA has had many recall votes before, and the governor has never been deposed.

[ June 27, 2003, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: beachjock73 ]

Beachjock73:

First off, thanks for the information/corrections.

I have a stupid question: If Gray Davis gets ousted, and people get to vote for whomever they choose, could Davis be voted back into office as a write-in candidate or can his name appear on a voting ballot even though he was ousted?

bj73 -- can you see that if you replace "Davis" with "Bush" and "state" with "federal" in your first paragraph, we can nearly use the same logic to demand a recall of our surplus-draining Resident?

I agree this is all quite silly, here are a few points
1) yes the defict is huge, but we are in better shape than other states because of the size of the state economy- we would be fifth in GDP if we were a nation.
2)We were decimated by the enronish power traders. I have seen figures as high as 9 billon in over charges.
3)People are paid to go out and collect signitures for the recall..

I don't contest that, though there is no mechanism for a recall on the federal level. Also, W's approval rating is over 70%, while Davis' is somewhere around 20%.

For a more accurate record:
The article can be found here: Republican lawmaker leading drive to recall California governor

Also, the recall provision was instituted back during the progressive reform era, as a way for Californians to challenge the big railroads, which at the time controlled much of the state (Leland Stanford was one of the railroad barons, as was Collis Huntington, of Huntington Library fame).

Issa's push is outrageous to say the least, and I've seen in several places where Arnold Schwarzenegger or--and I'm not making this up!--Rob Reiner could end up as governor! Didn't California learn better in the late 1960s and early 1970s with Reagan at the helm of things? It's really amazing that the nation's most populous state, with an economy the size of France's, is subject to these kinds of electoral shenanigans. But then again, people should have some method to check legislative and gubernatorial (abuse of) power if they're egregious. I'm not sure Davis meets that standard.

BTW, speaking of outrageous lies, George Pataki of New York made all kinds of claims and statements before his re-election waltz, and it turns out that in terms of the state's finances what he said wasn't exactly...true. But then New York State isn't as bad off as California, and Pataki, for whatever reason, never gets tagged with the level of disgust as other grossly dishonest politicians. I just hope he doesn't ever run for president, though he is socially quite liberal, maybe even more so than some Democrats.

[ June 27, 2003, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

Thanks Shawn.

Having just moved to California in February, I was not aware of the budget crisis or the recall effort. What shocked me was the whole procedure. I have no problem with a straight-up recall vote, but to also have the voters choose the possible replacement in a free-for-all vote at the same time is insane. I wonder if the Republicans would be so anxious to recall Davis if he would automatically be replaced by the Leutenant Governer, who is another Democrat? I just got registered to vote, so I guess I better pay attention to this mess. I'd rather start thinking about having sex with Ed McCaffrey. (I know that last sentence has nothing to do with Gray Davis, but ED is much hotter than Gray and I haven't seen Ed since January. Davis is on TV about every day.)

Issa's under the media microscope now that he's in the forefront -- and possible gubernatorial candidate in the recall.

What did they find? Possible arrest in the 80s for car theft (this from a man who made his fortune in car alarms ...)

Here's the Clintonian statement yesterday from Mr. Issa when asked about it: "The truth is a relative term."

I loved the exchange....

It didn't take the anti-recall group, Taxpayers Against the Governor's Recall, very long to take this exchange from last night's "Captial Report" and throw it into a press release.

CNBC's Alan Murray asked Congressman Issa about a radio ad highlighting some of his youthful troubles with the law.

Alan: "Is this true?"
Rep. Issa: "No it isn't true."

Alan: "Have you ever been arrested for car theft?"
Rep. Issa: "The truth is a relative term."

whatever man!!! Nice doublespeak Issa. :mad:

Spoken like a true republican, give this man a tax cut!

I think its pretty reprehensible to try to oust a sitting governor except for felonious conduct. Its OBNOXIOUS BUT sorry to say its LEGAL. ...Of course Repubs are hoppin mad cuz Davis ran all kinds of ads against the most mainstream Repub. candidate in the last primary election causing the very conservative candidiate to win. It was OBNOXIOUS BUT LEGAL.What goes around comes around. frown

Spoken like a true POLITICIAN. Republican or Democrat makes no difference.

I think Issa's slimy, but I can't stand Davis. If we had had a free-for-all election last November instead of choosing between the moron and the bigot, we never would have gotten to this situation. Riordan would have become governor, and most of the state would have been happy, Republicans and Democrats alike.

Copman the issue I have is the sitting gov is being recalled by a man paying out of state people to come here and collect pettions. This same man is running for the office, and has a very shady backround. IF Davis is recalled and IF a republican is elected there will be another recall drive, this time by the Dems. I will sign that pettion....mean while we have no state budget, our rating is dropping so it is costing us more to borrow money...and we are paying state employees with IOU's!
Ca is melting down because of this recall, and it will effect the rest of the nation.

I agree with you as far as affecting the rest of the nation. One thing that has spread to Washington State that started in California is the avalanche of referendums, and initiatives. We are swamped with them. There is an idiot up here named Tim Eyman who is a conservative Republican, and behind about 95% of these tax cutting initiatives. Last fall he plead guilty to padding his own expense account with some funds that were sent in to him by people who supported his positions. As a result of all these referendums, my state is $2 Billion in the hole. My Governor (Locke) has balanced the budget with even more draconian cuts to the budget. Who has been affected by this the most?? The poor!!!

Same thing going on here in CO. When Gov. Romer (D) left office we had the highest surplus in CO history. Then Bill Owens ® gets ellected and cuts taxes to the point where we are now having a shortfall.

Tax cut promises get these guys elected then they spend the rest of thier time trying to cut programs to pay for them.

I know Davis is a Dem, but much of this comes from the high prices they've paid for energy (Enron) was one of the main culprits.

OH Denver Denver Denver.... tisk tisk tisk....

I saw an intresting article that pointed out how GA is not in budget problems... and why you ask? because they spend money wisely. Good times they save, bad times they use it.

CO had a surplus, and the guy ran on giving it back. So if tax rev goes down... you've got trouble. However, if you are spending what comes in, and revenues go down, you're still in trouble.

CA is just another example of how when money is good, govt spends and spends and spends, then when things get bad... they wish to raise taxes or still spend as if times are great. The 2 cases are not comparable what so ever.

CA is lib heaven.. if they have the money, it's going to some social program.. then they wonder where the hell the money went. Why on earth do you think all the cali folks are moving to vegas or to phx. Why do you think companies are moving to 115 degree heat?

Dem or repub, Gray Davis is an idiot and not a strong leader. No one can deny that. Give it to AAAAAAHHHHHHHRnold....

So GA would be a good company and CA would be world comm in the biz world. Bankrupt, no money.. spend all ya got...

Phillyfan, you missed the mark.
We here in Ca were hit hard by the likes on Enron, and all the non funded mandates from the Feds AND the cost of all the undocumented aliens.

I'm sorry, Philly Fan, but what political party was it that the governor of Georgia belongs to? Ummm, isn't it the R's? Isn't he the first Republican governor in Georgia since Reconstruction?

Don't build up Republicans. Stay on message. The point of this thread is:
-- If there are budget problems and an R is the Gov: it's his fault. The incompetent boob never should've been elected.
-- If there are budget problems and a Dem is Gov: it's always someone else's fault.

Like Colorado's problem are due solely to its tax cutting governor, Bill Owen. If you follow that logic: vote to recall Gray Davis and put Pete Wilson back in the governor's mansion. You didn't here about massive budgert deficits when he was governor, so he must be a god.

It's like when people start threads about the unemployment rate being the highest in 9 years. In other words: the highest since the last time the Dems controlled the presidency and both Houses of Congress (and Hillary was trying to turn every hospital and doctor's office into the functional (and malfunctioning) equivalent of the DMV and Post Office). What was the reaction when this was pointed out? Not Clinton's fault. First two years of his presidency were G.H.W. Bush's fault. But the recession that started either immediately prior, or immediately after, George W. Bush's inauguration? His watch; his fault. Something tells me none of those lefties were cursing out Jimmy Carter for the Reagan recession 1981-82.

Here's my favorite post in this thread:
Cause and effect? The recall campaign is causing the $38 billion budget deficit? The recall ain't cheap, but it's cheaper than that. Much cheaper. Unless, of course, by meltdown you mean that all the hot air from both sides -- pro-recall and pro-Davis -- is adding to global warming. A literal melting down. Well, if that's what you meant, I guess you'd be absolutely right.

Gray Davis's only defenses to the recall campaign are a whiney "it's too expensive" and an equally whiney "Issa's a car thief." Doesn't really have anything to do with whether Davis should be allowed his final three years of his term.

My personal opinion on the recall: the Republicans of California should be punished for being so stoopid (yes, with two o's) for nominating Bill Simon when they had a wonderful candidate in Dick Riordan ready willing and able. They should feel the consequences of their idiocy, especially since they allowed Gray Davis to handpick Simon as his opponent with a major anti-Riordan advertising blitz pre-primary.

Conservatives usually believe that actions should have consequences. And California's R's should feel the consequences of being so dumb as to nominate Bill Simon when they could've had Gray Davis's butt on the street back in 2002.

[ July 09, 2003, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: Charlie in the Trees ]

CITT,
1) Wilson left the state in very bad shape, and yes the deregulation plan was something he wanted to have for his White house bid. He signed a bad bill into law.
2) IF Simon had won and there was a recall effort I would oppose that too! I know you THINK everything in my mind is Dem vs Rep. So I am sorry to disappoint you, it is not.
3)To quote you"Like Colorado's problem are due solely to its tax cutting governor, Bill Owen" We hear cut taxes on cars, but with a trigger effect now that we are swimming in red ink a trigger reinstates the tax. But the repub are fighting that too... Not for the good of the state but because they smell blood.
4) Do you think someone should be able to pay people to collect pettions?
5) Cause and effect? The recall campaign is causing the $38 billion budget deficit
If you bothered to read my post the melt down was regarding how Dems are now going to feel they need to mount a recall, and soon we will have chaos, nothing more.
I am sure since you can not defend the right on any of the other issues on this board you thought you would run with this one....but sorry you get the red card

Why not? It's done all the time, p2. Hell, it was done in the 2000 presidential election. Outsiders were even brought in to Florida and were paid by both parties to do all the legwork.

Hell, here in Chicago and Cook County, they wrote the book on paying people to get petition signatures (usually invalid ones, too).

It seems wrong, this whole we must win at all cost's, I guess this is all part of the United we stand stickers I see on everybodys SUV,, or is the your with us or against us...

I don't get what Beachjock is talking about Gray lying about the economy during the election? Do you live here in California? Of course he touted the positive things in our state economy as any incumbent would do, and there were a lot of them. And he also used a projected rebound in the economy to predict a bounce back for the state, just as every other governor and President Bush has also done. And they were all wrong. I don't see them getting recalled.

This is just sour grapes idiocy. What a bunch of fools, plain and simple. Repubs are pissed off they are out of power in the legislature and governship and are using the horrible economy to get people to sign these peitions. It wouldn't matter if the governor was a democrat or a republican, if the economy is horrible, people are mad at him and now with this silly and reprehensible system of arbitrary recall, he can be ousted for a crook like Issa. It's really just sickening. Someone like stupid Issa or someone else could be elected with no campaign at all, and thereby no media research into who they really are. The media only looked for five minutes to see Issa's criminal record and he's already lied about that, who knows what else is there.

Davis and the legislature need to stop spending so much money and I think they have gotten that message. But to recall him for that is ludicrous. And very unamerican I think. That isn't how our system should work. We had the election fair and square and unless he commits a serious crime, he's in for four years.

People are very cynical these days it seems, and everybody is looking to blame somebody for something, in this case, because the economy of California is in deep trouble, everybody is pointing fingers at Davis, but the problem is just about every state in the union at present is in the same position as California, maybe not the same size defecit, but in big trouble just the same. Shrub has cutoff the flow to the states, and everybody is in trouble.

In California, the legislature has to pass the budget with a 2/3 vote--another one of our wonderful initiatives.

The Republicans hold enough seats to block any budget that the Democrats come up with until doomsday!

This whole recall thing is nothing more than a power grab. I'll vote against the recall.

Here's a fun thought: Under California residency requirements, someone like, say, Bill Clinton would need move to California and register to vote only 15 days before an election. Then he would be eligible to be on the ballot.

Such things have been done before, even within his own family ...

Being a new Californian (five months), this would all be amusing if the state wasn't awash in red ink (I'm not blaming anyone) and there is total gridlock in the government. I signed a petition (from a cute guy) to reduce the 2/3rd's majority needed to pass a budget down to 55%, so I'm doing my part.

I was talking to a friend of mine who is a good Republican and he thinks the recall is ridiculous. I told him Republicans would be smarter to leave Davis in office with his 20% approval rating with the 2004 election coming up. Having an unpopular governor in office can only help all Republicans running, including Bush. I remember back in the early 1990's in New Jersey when everyone wanted to crucify Jim Florio for raising taxes. Republicans didn't try to recall him, they used voter anger to regain control of the state legislature and eventually regained the governorship.

My Republican friend is close friends with a member of the Democratic National Committee from West LA. He says there is a plan that if the polls look like the recall will pass, Davis will fall on his sword, resign from office and allow the Democratic Lieutenant Governor, Cruz Bustamonte, become governor. Like it or not, Democrats don't plan on giving up the governorship.

Issa claimed in a 7/4 interview that his 1972 arrest involved an "unloaded, never-fired, in-the-box, little, teeny pistol ..."

Turns out he was carrying a loaded .25-caliber semiautomatic pistol, 44 bullets and a tear gas gun.

The Dems are smart to make Issa the issue in this recall fiasco.

little teeny pistol my ass!

Seriously, people, Riordan, a GOPer, would probably have made a much better governor, and I hate to say it, but I wish he'd won. Davis has been lackluster. But he's not totally to blame for the situation in California, and Issa hardly sounds like he'd be any better. In fact, he sounds like a lying, right-wing crackpot.

My question concerning Issa's record is, why is it when Democrats have criminal pasts and lie they are crucified for it, but GOPers can get away with...well, carrying concealed handguns or DUIs and just making up whatever outrageous, unbelievable excuse comes to mind? Is there some kind of ideological free pass for these losers?

Finally, isn't Cruz Bustamante the same joker who used the "n" word in a speech a few years ago? How is it possible that the nation's largest states--California, Texas, New York, Florida--have such deceitful, unappealing people (Rick Perry, George Pataki, and that buffoon Jeb Bush belong in this category) at the tops of their governments? Aren't there smarter people with some integrity out there who are also capable of winning statewide elections?