I just read a story about a test vote run on some computerized machines out of Palm Beach County Florida, and the computer crashed! Stories like this causes me much concern about what is going on down there!

Well, you ought to be concerned. Because in addition to that mess, Jeb W's new head of elections isn't certifying some Democratic ballots because people didn't check a box verifying their citizenship, though on the same forms they did sign affirming the very same thing. Yet they won't tell the people they're decertified until it's too late.

And Florida has made it VERY difficult for people WRONGLY accused of felonies and thus barred from voting to clear their names. The state is forcing them to go through a Kafkaesque bureacracy of various courts and other measures, even though they weren't FELONS in the first place! (I mean, Cheney and W can vote without any problems, and they both committed DUIs!)

Then, to top it off, in some mostly GOP Florida counties, the election officials are providing very few early voting sites, particularly if the voters are black.

It's all of a piece to deny people their rights to vote.

Positively Stalinesque and fascistic by equal measure!

[ October 15, 2004, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

We should send Jimmy Carter to monitor elections in Florida. Bringing in people from other countries to watch the process wouldn't hurt, either...if we go to them, why can't they come here and make sure everything is done correctly?

Bobby, I think you have a greaqt idea!!! The only problem is that the GOP would never go along with that because other countries are below us and not capable of having their own governments nor providing safe drugs to their citizens. How could they possibly aid us, the greatest super power to end all superpowers? bush might say that would make us appear weak in the eyes of our enemies if we ask for help.

All the county clerks in Florida were legally elected. None of them were appointed by anyone other than the people. More than 80% of the "hanging chad" problems 4 years ago were in Democratic counties where the County Clerks had approval from the legally elected County Commissioners to use the middle hinge punch ballots. This was the same ballot form used in Cooke County Illinois w/o any problems. More times than not "hanging Chads" happen when someone has a stack of ballots and they are trying to ram a pencil thru 5-10 ballots at a time- ala LBJ ala Richard Daley. Elections polls monitored by an ex-US President? -the idea is absurd. Don't you think the people of Florida have a right to determine them own destiny? And that the whole world is watching.

One night last week, it was on The National (CBC News) that he's already made plans to be there.

Problem is, they're determining OUR destiny, and I don't trust the crooks who run that state.

Me either.

Hey Joe, kinda sounds like the Federalist papers! You're 230 yrs late. Work for change or learn to accept it when it happens. wink wink

If you can't accept it -then my advice is to see somebody about it. :cool:

WERE being the key word. The Elections Supervisor in Palm Beach County, where I live, Theresa Lepore (name ring a bell?? she created the butterfly ballot) was actually defeated in August. Problem is, she doesn't leave office 'til January, so she's running this election as an already-defeated supervisor.

Also, the clerks were mostly elected, but the Secretary of State, whose orders they have to follow, is Glenda Hood, who was appointed by Jeb Bush. She's a long-term partisan hack who was mayor of Orlando, and she doesn't do ANYTHING without going through Jeb....

No one in their right minds -- or wrong minds, for that matter -- should ever listen to advice from someone like you.

[ October 16, 2004, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]

Wine or Whine? wink wink

What the hell are you talking about? There are ALWAYS voting problems in COOK County, Illinois. ALWAYS. Chads, missing votes, closed polls, you name it. No one--Democratic nor GOP--believes that voting shenanigans don't occur on a regular basis in Cook County, and specifically in the City of Chicago, where the Dictator Daley's machine makes a complete mockery of the democratic process (and the Democratic Party). I say this as a Democrat--Daley is a S(hrewd)-C(orrupt)-U(beatable)-M(onster). One of the reasons Barack Obama's primary win was so impressive was that he won majorities in counties OUTSIDE Cook. Daley, in fact, did not endorse him, and only came along to support him after it was clear he was going to stride right into the Senate.

The anti-democratic actions of Glenda Hood and Jeb Bush are steadily being documented. Now the Sarasota Herald has published an article showing that the pie-faced governor KNEW that his felon list was flawed, and mocked the worker who pointed it out. Cf. this e-mail. These are disgusting, fascistic people who cannot deal with the fact that the puppet they support may not be the choice of the majority--either of their state or of the United States.

Also, hanging chads, rather than resulting from that nonsensical bit of GOP talking-points claim about pencils ramming through them, DO OFTEN RESULT from a perfectly legitimate and proper human punching process, as opposed to a mechanical one. This is something that any computer scientist who worked with punch cards--you know, the main means of recording data before the invention of the microchip--could tell you.

[ October 16, 2004, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

Since the moderator didn't combine the threads, here's the link to the other thread on voter fraud, primarily led by the GOP:

Outsports: GOP vote fraud shenanigans under investigation

I read an article today that Colorado may be the 2004 version of Florida. They are having problems with registration, and know the use of provisional ballots will cause confusion. There have already been lawsuits filed and, if the initiative passes to change the way they allocate electoral votes passes, look for lawsuits into 2005.

FT, I disagree with your claim that the voter fraud is "primarily led by the GOP." Unfortunately, ALL parties appear to be engaging in it to a more or less equal degree. There's no excuse for ANY of it in my book, and it should be prosecuted rigorously as a felony wherever found. That means fines, jail time AND lifetime deprivation of the right to vote for those found guilty.

There's also no excuse for last minute election messups such as we're starting to read of. It's just not that hard, people! Lists of felons are generally computerized and registrars can easily scrub their rolls to eliminate them from voting; the issue of whether or not felons should be able to vote is a separate one. I do believe, however, that requiring positive photo ID at the time of registering and voting is a MUST for combatting fraud like this. Finally, while literacy tests have been found unconstitutional, competency tests may not be. I don't think it's asking too much to ensure that people know that they're doing when they vote and that their decision is a rational one.

Well, I think that anyone who votes Republican is clearly irrational. So since you can't make a rational decision, obviously you shouldn't be allowed to vote. Simple, huh! wink

[ October 17, 2004, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]

I am not sure I agree that someone who has committed a crime, served his time, will NEVER be allowed to vote again. Yes, if you are still in jail, or may be on probation, you should not be able to vote, but not allowing them to vote the rest of their life? Why? What is the point in depriving them of the vote? They may turn their life completely around, but even if they don't, I am not sure this is right.

I had a socialist (ok, she was a commie) government teacher who was fond of saying "I'm all in favor of literacy tests for voters. And as soon as we can garauntee that's all they'll test, we'll use them." Any sort of test to determine eligibility for voting will be abused. It's human nature. Just like the death penalty cannot be administered fairly. There's no way of policing all the police in either case.

But people in jail are counted towards each state's population and electoral votes. States as a result receive apportioned allocations from the federal goernment. Not allowing citizen prisoners to vote denies them fair representation. Not allowing citizens who have served their penance is completely wrong.

More dirty tricks!
GOP fails in effort to move polls; Last-minute bid tried to relocate 63 mostly black polling places



[ October 18, 2004, 07:16 AM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]

They are such hypocrites. The Repugs. were on the talking head shows yesterday denying this to the hilt.

Oh come on, you know you don't believe this, because you wouldn't want to see Jeb Bush and Glenda Hood, or the folks in the RNC who've supported that sleazy firm that tore up Democrats' voter registration cards in Nevada and Oregon, or Karl Rove or any other Republican fascist fined, thrown in jail and deprived "lifetime" of the right to vote. Would you?

And please provide proof that this stuff is happening "equally." It isn't. The GOP sees that their man is in trouble, and they don't want to have to rely upon the Supreme Court of the United States to bail them out again. For a party of states' rights, their support of federal intervention in 2000 was deplorable, but then they are the Potemkin Party in every way, and that's saying a lot given how hollowed out and right-leaning the national Democrats are.

[ October 18, 2004, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

It's "Florida In Crisis: Day One of Fifteen" and crashes have already started...
The Link

[ October 18, 2004, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: bobby78751 ]

This story gives new meaning to "voting the party line."