Quite the irony here.
AP--Teresa Heinz Kerry attended a Massachusetts Statehouse reception Sunday night for fellow Pennsylvanians, telling them, "We need to turn back some of the creeping, un-Pennsylvanian and sometimes un-American traits that are coming into some of our politics."
She criticized the tenor of modern political campaigns without being specific.
Minutes later, seeking simply to learn why she chose such words, the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review's Colin McNickle questioned Heinz Kerry on what she meant by the term "un-American," according to a tape of the encounter recorded by Pittsburgh television station WTAE.
Heinz Kerry said, "I didn't say that" several times to McNickle. She then turned to confer with Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell and others.
When she faced McNickle again a short time later, he continued to question her, and she replied: "You said something I didn't say. Now shove it!"
Audio tapes confirmed that Heinz Kerry did, in fact, use the words "un-American."
###
Let's see if all those who railed on Cheney will excuse Teresa Heinz Ketchup's comments, coming right after her outright lie. Hey, Teresa--it's on tape, Dear.
Full Version: Teresa Heinz Ketchup Lies, Tells Reporter to "Shove It!"
At least she didn't swear. 
She's so cool.
QUOTE
MIB:
Let's see if all those who railed on Cheney will excuse Teresa Heinz Ketchup's comments, coming right after her outright lie. Hey, Teresa--it's on tape, Dear.
Let's see: the wife of the Dem. nominee tells a reporter to "shove it" vs. the President of the Senate (Cheney) telling a U.S. Senator on the Senate floor to "go f*ck yourself". Nope, doens't seem the same to me. Let's see if all those who railed on Cheney will excuse Teresa Heinz Ketchup's comments, coming right after her outright lie. Hey, Teresa--it's on tape, Dear.
Come on, MIB, you're really stretching things now. Getting desparate?
Bad Teresa, bad, bad, Teresa.
Now, back to the fun!!!
[ July 26, 2004, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: fantomas ]
Now, back to the fun!!!
[ July 26, 2004, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: fantomas ]
QUOTE
KeyWest Guy:
Come on, MIB, you're really stretching things now. Getting desparate?
Just being his usual hypocritical self. Situations are only different when it's convenient for his point of view.Come on, MIB, you're really stretching things now. Getting desparate?
[ July 26, 2004, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]
Agree with most here. BFD!! She didn't swear like the Dick did. No comparison in my book.
I heard the reporter was a "major league ass****."
Bigtime.
Bigtime.
In my view, the reaction to all these situations are something of a rorshach test (sp? hey, I'm a laywer, not a shrink...but not a judge, nor have I ever thought I was a judge, although I did play one in moot court) for how one views the candidate/party/person/issue in question.
That said, as someone who's observed her since Senator Heinz died (and what an incredible loss that was for Pennsylvania), when the Pennsylvania Republican party begged her to run for his seat (now held by Sen. Santorum) the tone of her comments shouldn't suprise anyone. While the foundations she chairs have done tremendous good throughout western PA, she has never had a public reputation as someone warm, or as someone who suffers fools. (Kind of Hillary without the soft edge. wink )
However, I find the reaction of her spokesman, who immediately went after the Pittsburgh Tribune Review as a "some right wing rag" more emblematic of the issue than her less than polite remark. The truth is, Teresa, that many people in the Pittsburgh area read that paper, and while it may be the Pittsburgh version of the Washington Times, isn't the city better served by having two voices? And, what of the hundreds of people depend on that paper for their livelihoods. Are they rags, too? Of course not, so why disparage them?
While it may be "shooting the messenger" the fact is that all the journalist did was ask a legitimate question that seemed out of context with her previous remarks.
In the end, its not a big deal.
Is it ironic, given the circumstances? Sure, of course it is. But trying to justify one outburst by playing it off another doesn't wash either.
People will judge each situation -- and there will be more -- and come to their own conclusions. The fact is, that most of the people crowing the loudest, one way or the other, have already made up their minds. My guess is that the precious "swing voter" -- whoever they are -- are more likely to be put off by Whoopi-like remarks, than by Teresa taking a shot at a journalist.
I'm a Republican. I found the Vice President's language objectionable. There's no excusing it. No need for it. Anyone with a brain should hope that discourse among our leaders isn't reduced to that, although I'm sure it's been said before, on the floor or off, by equal numbers of Republicans and Democrats.
And please, don't we have more important issues to cope with as a nation than continuing games of political he-said/she-said?
That said, as someone who's observed her since Senator Heinz died (and what an incredible loss that was for Pennsylvania), when the Pennsylvania Republican party begged her to run for his seat (now held by Sen. Santorum) the tone of her comments shouldn't suprise anyone. While the foundations she chairs have done tremendous good throughout western PA, she has never had a public reputation as someone warm, or as someone who suffers fools. (Kind of Hillary without the soft edge. wink )
However, I find the reaction of her spokesman, who immediately went after the Pittsburgh Tribune Review as a "some right wing rag" more emblematic of the issue than her less than polite remark. The truth is, Teresa, that many people in the Pittsburgh area read that paper, and while it may be the Pittsburgh version of the Washington Times, isn't the city better served by having two voices? And, what of the hundreds of people depend on that paper for their livelihoods. Are they rags, too? Of course not, so why disparage them?
While it may be "shooting the messenger" the fact is that all the journalist did was ask a legitimate question that seemed out of context with her previous remarks.
In the end, its not a big deal.
Is it ironic, given the circumstances? Sure, of course it is. But trying to justify one outburst by playing it off another doesn't wash either.
People will judge each situation -- and there will be more -- and come to their own conclusions. The fact is, that most of the people crowing the loudest, one way or the other, have already made up their minds. My guess is that the precious "swing voter" -- whoever they are -- are more likely to be put off by Whoopi-like remarks, than by Teresa taking a shot at a journalist.
I'm a Republican. I found the Vice President's language objectionable. There's no excusing it. No need for it. Anyone with a brain should hope that discourse among our leaders isn't reduced to that, although I'm sure it's been said before, on the floor or off, by equal numbers of Republicans and Democrats.
And please, don't we have more important issues to cope with as a nation than continuing games of political he-said/she-said?
i'm sorry, but i forget.
remind me, again, what office it is that theresa is running for? and how many heartbeats away from the presidency does it put her?
in the end, though, it was a bit of bad form on her part. you go, girl!
[ July 26, 2004, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: thersis ]
remind me, again, what office it is that theresa is running for? and how many heartbeats away from the presidency does it put her?
in the end, though, it was a bit of bad form on her part. you go, girl!
[ July 26, 2004, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: thersis ]
why didn't she just take Jenna's approach and stick her tongue out !?!? 
QUOTE
KeyWest Guy:
Come on, MIB, you're really stretching things now. Getting desparate?
It's always different when a liberal says such things. It's "do as I say and not as I do" when it comes to the left's philosophy.Come on, MIB, you're really stretching things now. Getting desparate?
I must say, for the record, I am not offended by either individual's comment. Anytime someone tells a reporter to "shove it" is fine with me. And Pat Leahy deserves every "F--- you" comment he can get. The guy's an absolute mean, lying bleep.
I was more baffled by Teresa Heinz Ketchup claiming she never said "un-Pennsylvanian" and "un-American" when several news sources, including ABC News, had it on tape. Regardless, this woman scares me. She's a witch. And I thought Hillary as a first lady was a cold stone.
Now we've got another of the "tolerant" left shooting her mouth off. The wife of Iowa Governor Vilsack recently remarked to a person, "I'd rather speak Polish than talk to someone from the South."
As an American of Polish descent, I suppose I should be offended, but I'm not as hypersensitive as those on the Left. Yes, her remark was insensitive and insulting to those of Polish ethnicity, but what would one expect from a liberal? And this from the party that spews their hypocritical bullshit about tolerance, acceptance, etc. Uh huh.
Of course, JIP will just excuse this crap by saying "it's different." It always is with liberals. It always is.
[ July 26, 2004, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: MIB ]
All I can say is thank God MIB is not a judge in real life as he claims (then claims not to be) online.
MIB's judgement:
The vice president of the United States, one weak heartbeat away from being (offically) president
same as...
Unelected private citizen and candidates wife.
Yeah, same thing MIB, now lay back down and take a nappy.
MIB's judgement:
The vice president of the United States, one weak heartbeat away from being (offically) president
same as...
Unelected private citizen and candidates wife.
Yeah, same thing MIB, now lay back down and take a nappy.
actually, mib, you are being hypersensitive. the good first lady of iowa said nothing disparaging about anyone, so i'm not sure why anyone would trumpet the fact that they're not insulted.
she said she would rather speak polish than speak with someone from the south. what she is referring to here is the polish language which is separate and apart from the polish people.
play the martyr and take no umbrage if you must, but the polish language is ugly to the ear! some languages are more unpleasant sounding than others, and to a lot of westerners, the eastern european languages are unpleasant sounding. this says nothing about actual eastern europeans....
so what ms. vilsak was saying, for the analogy impaired, is that as unpleasant sounding as polish is (to her, anyway), a southern accent is even more grating (to her, anyway).
no harm, no foul, just hypothetical hypocrisy.
[ July 26, 2004, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: thersis ]
she said she would rather speak polish than speak with someone from the south. what she is referring to here is the polish language which is separate and apart from the polish people.
play the martyr and take no umbrage if you must, but the polish language is ugly to the ear! some languages are more unpleasant sounding than others, and to a lot of westerners, the eastern european languages are unpleasant sounding. this says nothing about actual eastern europeans....
so what ms. vilsak was saying, for the analogy impaired, is that as unpleasant sounding as polish is (to her, anyway), a southern accent is even more grating (to her, anyway).
no harm, no foul, just hypothetical hypocrisy.
[ July 26, 2004, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: thersis ]
QUOTE
RazorbackTX:
Yeah, same thing MIB, now lay back down and take a nappy.
Oh, it's never the same thing unless it's the same person of the same sex of the same height of the same weight of the same race of the same.... Whatever.Yeah, same thing MIB, now lay back down and take a nappy.
And as far as my claims, you were the one who claimed I made a claim here that claimed I was someone whom you claimed I was but could never offer any proof of such claim because I never claimed to be the person you claimed I was.
And a nap does sound good about now. Just where are my meds? G'night.
QUOTE
thersis:
so what ms. vilsak was saying, for the analogy impaired, is that as unpleasant sounding as polish is (to her, anyway), a southern accent is even more grating (to her, anyway).
no harm, no foul, just hypothetical hypocrisy.
First of all, as I said, I personally am not offended. Secondly, what she said was, indeed, quite insensitive and insulting to people of Polish ethnicity. She knew very well that she was being demeaning and not comparing the dialect or audio qualities of the languages. It was no accident she chose Polish. Poles have been the butt of jokes for God knows how long. The ole "how many Polaks does it take..." and other such jokes are common. (Again, I personally am not offended by her comments. Heck, I'm 100% Polish and hear and tell Polish jokes all the time.)so what ms. vilsak was saying, for the analogy impaired, is that as unpleasant sounding as polish is (to her, anyway), a southern accent is even more grating (to her, anyway).
no harm, no foul, just hypothetical hypocrisy.
If her comments weren't so insulting, why are several Dems trying to backtrack from them and "assure" Poles that she "didn't mean what she said"?
Had she said that in Chicago while campaigning for Kerry, she probably would have cost Kerry the city vote. With the second largest Polish population in the world--second only to Warsaw--Chicago would not have been kind to such remarks.
Wow, such heated reactions to "shove it?" Does anyone out there really think that big time politics is only full of polite conversation? I didn't give a damn what Cheney said either, although it's now clear that this administration simply doesn't like their methods questioned: a decidedly "unAmerican" way to conduct the business of running the country.
We have seen some decidedly "unAmerican" behavior the last four years, in fact longer, starting with Kenneth Starr's wasting $70 million of the taxpayer's money to destroy President Clinton. The "unAmerican" activity continued with the Bush administration's right wing contingent (need i mention their names?) attempting to rewrite our bill of rights as well as our constitution. I'm glad someone is pointing out the "unAmerican" activities propagated by the current administration.
The reporter is from a conservative paper and most likely knew exactly what she meant but was attempting to distort her words. This will be the tactic used repeatedly by the Republicans over the next couple of months. It's typical. For example: using the term "flip-flopping" to describe someone whose views have grown and evolved with time - as most intelligent, non-dogmatic views and positions should do...
We have seen some decidedly "unAmerican" behavior the last four years, in fact longer, starting with Kenneth Starr's wasting $70 million of the taxpayer's money to destroy President Clinton. The "unAmerican" activity continued with the Bush administration's right wing contingent (need i mention their names?) attempting to rewrite our bill of rights as well as our constitution. I'm glad someone is pointing out the "unAmerican" activities propagated by the current administration.
The reporter is from a conservative paper and most likely knew exactly what she meant but was attempting to distort her words. This will be the tactic used repeatedly by the Republicans over the next couple of months. It's typical. For example: using the term "flip-flopping" to describe someone whose views have grown and evolved with time - as most intelligent, non-dogmatic views and positions should do...
MIB said, I am not as hypersenstive as those on the left , right. What ever you say. Thanks for the laugh of the day. Whatever. Or as another would say, Tally Ho!
QUOTE
QUOTE
I can't help but notice that something is missing here. Like: a 10,000-pound elephant standing in the middle of the room?
The Truth About Heinz and Tides
Maybe now Outsports listers are better equipped to "judge" the story for themselves.
[ July 26, 2004, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: twin58 ]
The Truth About Heinz and Tides
QUOTE
In recent weeks, The Heinz Endowments has been accused of using its funding of the Tides Center of Western Pennsylvania to advance a laundry list of partisan causes and fringe political groups. This accusation is simply wrong.
It originated in an opinion column written by a researcher for the conservative, Washington, D.C.-based Capital Research Center.
....
Since first being published in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, CRC’s accusation has been picked up and expanded in opinion pieces in a number of newspapers, including the Wall Street Journal, the New York Post and the Washington Times. But not even these publications have leveled this allegation in actual news stories.
The reason why is obvious: The charge does not stand up to objective scrutiny. Four facts undercut it completely.
....
To learn more, please click on the links below:
A complete list of Heinz Endowments grants to Tides and the projects they supported;
CRC’s original allegation as published in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review on Dec. 14, 2003 - The Heinz Endowments have teamed with a secretive left-wing group;
The Endowments’ response as published in the Dec. 14th Tribune-Review column, Neither extreme nor secretive;
The Endowments’ response to the Dec. 14th Tribune-Review column, as submitted;
A second column, Playing Ketchup, published in National Review Online and the Tribune-Review, building on the allegation;
The Endowments’ unpublished response to the National Review Online (and the Tribune Review);
A Tribune-Review editorial published March 12, 2004, Follow the Money, criticizing the Endowments for attempting to respond to the allegations;
The Endowments’ second response, also never published;
The New York Post’s editorial (Mrs.) Kerry’s Cash Connection, published March 9, 2004;
The Endowments’ response;
The Wall Street Journal editorial, The Politics of 9/11, published March 10, 2004;
The Endowments’ unpublished response;
The Washington Times’ editorial, Active measures, published March 10, 2004;
The Endowments’ response, Donations aren’t fungible, published March 13, 2004;
A Pittsburgh Post-Gazette report, Right zooms in on Heinz on where the attacks are coming from, published March 7, 2004;
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette’s editorial, Dishing the dirt, published March 14, 2004, dismissing the allegations;
Tides Foundation and Tides Center Statement Regarding Recent Scrutiny over Heinz Endowments.
....
So. Richard Scaife makes accusations about the Heinz Endowments in his paper. The Heinz Endowments attempts to rebut those claims, but the paper and other cronies of Scaife's refuse to print the rebuttals.It originated in an opinion column written by a researcher for the conservative, Washington, D.C.-based Capital Research Center.
....
Since first being published in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, CRC’s accusation has been picked up and expanded in opinion pieces in a number of newspapers, including the Wall Street Journal, the New York Post and the Washington Times. But not even these publications have leveled this allegation in actual news stories.
The reason why is obvious: The charge does not stand up to objective scrutiny. Four facts undercut it completely.
....
To learn more, please click on the links below:
A complete list of Heinz Endowments grants to Tides and the projects they supported;
CRC’s original allegation as published in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review on Dec. 14, 2003 - The Heinz Endowments have teamed with a secretive left-wing group;
The Endowments’ response as published in the Dec. 14th Tribune-Review column, Neither extreme nor secretive;
The Endowments’ response to the Dec. 14th Tribune-Review column, as submitted;
A second column, Playing Ketchup, published in National Review Online and the Tribune-Review, building on the allegation;
The Endowments’ unpublished response to the National Review Online (and the Tribune Review);
A Tribune-Review editorial published March 12, 2004, Follow the Money, criticizing the Endowments for attempting to respond to the allegations;
The Endowments’ second response, also never published;
The New York Post’s editorial (Mrs.) Kerry’s Cash Connection, published March 9, 2004;
The Endowments’ response;
The Wall Street Journal editorial, The Politics of 9/11, published March 10, 2004;
The Endowments’ unpublished response;
The Washington Times’ editorial, Active measures, published March 10, 2004;
The Endowments’ response, Donations aren’t fungible, published March 13, 2004;
A Pittsburgh Post-Gazette report, Right zooms in on Heinz on where the attacks are coming from, published March 7, 2004;
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette’s editorial, Dishing the dirt, published March 14, 2004, dismissing the allegations;
Tides Foundation and Tides Center Statement Regarding Recent Scrutiny over Heinz Endowments.
....
Maybe now Outsports listers are better equipped to "judge" the story for themselves.
[ July 26, 2004, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: twin58 ]
I don't know. Apparently, you have to be "100% Polish"/"Federal Judge" to actually grasp the enormity of this subject.
I think Raze summed it up best:
I heard the reporter was a "major league ass****."
I think Raze summed it up best:
I heard the reporter was a "major league ass****."
Back to Madame Teresa Heinz Kerry Battenberg Mountbatten. I was watching the "ABC Evening News With Peter Jennings." They ran the video of MTHKBM clearly making the remarks before the delegation from PA. If she couldn't see the video camera filming her, she needs glasses.
**Edited to add, after reading later posts here: she used the word "un-American," but apparently not the phrase "un-American activity." I'll have to see the tape again.**
I know it wasn't a dirty trick by the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, as Peter Jennings comes to all the Party meetings. When asked if she had made the remark in question, MTHKBM should have replied that she certainly did and let it go at that.
In light of this controversy, I will not vote for MTHKBM this fall.
[ July 27, 2004, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: twin58 ]
**Edited to add, after reading later posts here: she used the word "un-American," but apparently not the phrase "un-American activity." I'll have to see the tape again.**
I know it wasn't a dirty trick by the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, as Peter Jennings comes to all the Party meetings. When asked if she had made the remark in question, MTHKBM should have replied that she certainly did and let it go at that.
In light of this controversy, I will not vote for MTHKBM this fall.
[ July 27, 2004, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: twin58 ]
You know what, I am so sick of all of this hypersensitivity B.S. on both sides of the coin. Its not against anyone in this forum- its our country as a whole.
They ask if our country is better.... with Reagan-I would have to say yes- as a child I thought he was really good. I actually remember being afraid that he was leaving because how would Russia act now that he was leaving...
With George Sr- No, our country was not better, our country went worse- he was an ineffective leader and lost the trust of our nation and thank God for Ross Perot helping Clinton to win.
With Bill- our country was good- the rest of the world was happier- we didnt alienate others- we lost respect for him as a man because of his lies- but as a country the average citizen was better off....
With George Jr- we are back at war, we have alienated allies with what other countries perceive as a cowboy rogue leader- our country is split quite like it hasn't been in some time- the country has become hypersensitive to everything- words, images, etc. This administration wants to control everything... and in effect has lost touch with the average citizen...
These last four years have made us sensitive to a lot of B.S. Who cares if someone tells a reporter to shove it... who cares if the Prez or VP calls someone a major league a-hole or to f-off... I want someone who helps the average American- not only myself, but the average American.
So you know what- I want to say to those who vote only to better themselves instead of the good of our country- its your right. You can make whatever statement about our leadership with your vote. If you wanna tell people to screw off- its my vote- GREAT!
But lets just let people say whatever the hell they want, whenever the hell they want. This is ridiculous....
They ask if our country is better.... with Reagan-I would have to say yes- as a child I thought he was really good. I actually remember being afraid that he was leaving because how would Russia act now that he was leaving...
With George Sr- No, our country was not better, our country went worse- he was an ineffective leader and lost the trust of our nation and thank God for Ross Perot helping Clinton to win.
With Bill- our country was good- the rest of the world was happier- we didnt alienate others- we lost respect for him as a man because of his lies- but as a country the average citizen was better off....
With George Jr- we are back at war, we have alienated allies with what other countries perceive as a cowboy rogue leader- our country is split quite like it hasn't been in some time- the country has become hypersensitive to everything- words, images, etc. This administration wants to control everything... and in effect has lost touch with the average citizen...
These last four years have made us sensitive to a lot of B.S. Who cares if someone tells a reporter to shove it... who cares if the Prez or VP calls someone a major league a-hole or to f-off... I want someone who helps the average American- not only myself, but the average American.
So you know what- I want to say to those who vote only to better themselves instead of the good of our country- its your right. You can make whatever statement about our leadership with your vote. If you wanna tell people to screw off- its my vote- GREAT!
But lets just let people say whatever the hell they want, whenever the hell they want. This is ridiculous....
QUOTE
MIB:
Let's see if all those who railed on Cheney will excuse Teresa Heinz Ketchup's comments, coming right after her outright lie. Hey, Teresa--it's on tape, Dear.
But you excused Cheney, so, unless you're a hypocrite, you excuse her as well. And we all know you only call other hypocrite and would never engage in such rhetoric yourself.
Let's see if all those who railed on Cheney will excuse Teresa Heinz Ketchup's comments, coming right after her outright lie. Hey, Teresa--it's on tape, Dear.
QUOTE
Bryan:
For example: using the term \"flip-flopping\" to describe someone whose views have grown and evolved with time...
So reversing yourself within a few months of your original decision is "evolving"? I had no idea evolution is so quick to occur. For example: using the term \"flip-flopping\" to describe someone whose views have grown and evolved with time...
Another attempt by the Left to redefine words of the English language. If it's a liberal going back-and-forth on a position, it's "evolving," but if a conservative should do it, then, well...I'm sure it'd be unacceptable.
QUOTE
jqueer:
But you excused Cheney, so, unless you're a hypocrite, you excuse her as well.
Actually, I do excuse her. It's her denying she ever said such comments in the first place that surprised me. She blew off a reporter. I kinda like that anyway. But you excused Cheney, so, unless you're a hypocrite, you excuse her as well.
QUOTE
MIB:
but if a conservative should do it, then, well...I'm sure it'd be unacceptable.
Conservatives change their minds? Isn't that a sign of weakness?
but if a conservative should do it, then, well...I'm sure it'd be unacceptable.
QUOTE
MIB:
Actually, I do excuse her. It's her denying she ever said such comments in the first place that surprised me. She blew off a reporter. I kinda like that anyway.
To clarify, are you saying she claims not to have blown off the reporter or claims she didn't say what the reporter was trying to attribute to her when she did blow him off?
Actually, I do excuse her. It's her denying she ever said such comments in the first place that surprised me. She blew off a reporter. I kinda like that anyway.
MIB, get your facts straight before accusing someone of lying. First of all, the reporter in question apparently has a history of an adversarial relationship with the Heinz family (which might be important in exmining Theresa's reaction.) Secondly, but more importantly, she never denied using the words "un-American." In fact she has used the term on other occassions (accurately, in my opinion) to describe some of the tactics of the Republican party in this and other elections. However, when confronting her, the reporter asked her why she used the term "un-American ACTIVITIES?" This is quite a different term, with historical meaning that goes beyond the adjective "un_American." When she claimed that she had never uttered such a term, and told him to shove it, she was telling the truth, and giving him appropriate directions where his controversy-generating baiting should be put!
QUOTE
MIB:
And as far as my claims, you were the one who claimed I made a claim here that claimed I was someone whom you claimed I was but could never offer any proof of such claim because I never claimed to be the person you claimed I was.
Yeah, right, me and the other dozen or so people who busted you on your lie. If it makes you feel better to live in your fantasy world, knock yourself out.
And as far as my claims, you were the one who claimed I made a claim here that claimed I was someone whom you claimed I was but could never offer any proof of such claim because I never claimed to be the person you claimed I was.
Jude just pointed out why this whole to-do is a bunch of nothing. Heinz-Kerry commented on "...un-Pennsylvania and sometimes un-American traits that are coming into some of our politics".
The reporter asked her about "un-American acitivity". Heinz-Kerry responded that she didn't say that, which is true--she didn't mention anything about "un-American activity". For me, end of story.
The reporter asked her about "un-American acitivity". Heinz-Kerry responded that she didn't say that, which is true--she didn't mention anything about "un-American activity". For me, end of story.
QUOTE
MIB:
Another attempt by the Left to redefine words of the English language. If it's a liberal going back-and-forth on a position, it's \"evolving,\" but if a conservative should do it, then, well...I'm sure it'd be unacceptable.
So what is this:QUOTE
Bryan:
For example: using the term \"flip-flopping\" to describe someone whose views have grown and evolved with time...
So reversing yourself within a few months of your original decision is \"evolving\"? I had no idea evolution is so quick to occur. For example: using the term \"flip-flopping\" to describe someone whose views have grown and evolved with time...
Another attempt by the Left to redefine words of the English language. If it's a liberal going back-and-forth on a position, it's \"evolving,\" but if a conservative should do it, then, well...I'm sure it'd be unacceptable.
"I'm the war president."--Speech in May, George W. Bush
"I wanna be the peace president."--Speech in July, George W. Bush
Also, this whole Teresa Heinz Kerry flap is part of the usual RNC spin. Hell, she's not running for ANYTHING! Let's at least talk about the *candidates*, Kerry and Spillz (Can't-Stay-On-A-Bike-Bush).
Personally, I like the idea of a strong fiesty !st Lady, sure beats the boring robot we currently have.
Talk about much ado about zilch. "Teresa Heinz Ketchup." Wow, did you think that one up all by yourself, MIB? You should write for Whoopie.
QUOTE
MIB:
Heck, I'm 100% Polish and hear and tell Polish jokes all the time.)
Hey! Just like a certain \"Ump\" who used to have/be a personality around here. What a coincidence! Heck, I'm 100% Polish and hear and tell Polish jokes all the time.)
QUOTE
Raze:
Yeah, right, me and the other dozen or so people who busted you on your lie. If it makes you feel better to live in your fantasy world, knock yourself out.
You can add me to the list of witnesses, Raze. I saw "Federal Judge" on numerous occassions in his profile, and will be prepared to testify to such in "federal court." Oh, the credibility! Yeah, right, me and the other dozen or so people who busted you on your lie. If it makes you feel better to live in your fantasy world, knock yourself out.
QUOTE
HotlantaTarheel
un-American traits ... \"un-American activity\".
Hadn't noticed that. Thanks for clarifying what she was asked.
un-American traits ... \"un-American activity\".
[quote]Seph
[ [/qb][/quote]You can add me to the list of witnesses, Raze. I saw \"Federal Judge\" on numerous occassions in his profile, and will be prepared to testify to such in \"federal court.\" Oh, the credibility! [/QB][/QUOTE]
Add me to that list also - I saw it as well.
[ [/qb][/quote]You can add me to the list of witnesses, Raze. I saw \"Federal Judge\" on numerous occassions in his profile, and will be prepared to testify to such in \"federal court.\" Oh, the credibility!
[/QB][/QUOTE]Add me to that list also - I saw it as well.
Just wanna say "Amen" to what Kick said. Since the war, I've been begun my political education. I used to think Repubs and Dems were alike for the most part, despite what their parties proclaim. So I didn't pay much attention to party politics and just tried to vote for the person with the better ideas.
That all changed with Bush. I couldn't figure out where I'd been when he decided to invade Iraq. I saw no connection, so I figured I must've had my head buried in the sand. So I started digging and digging. And I still couldn't find a good reason to go there.
This board has helped tremendously in my education. For the most part, I get to see what both parties think of this situation, and how they generally conduct themselves. So, thanks, everybody, for helping to educate me.
That said, I've also noticed recently that, like Kick said, all this bickering has gotten out of hand. Why can't anybody just admit when they're wrong? I hope the purpose of these discussions isn't to win per se, but to arrive at some truth in situations. And we're never going to get there if we refuse to admit when the other side has a point we didn't see earlier.
Yes, I think Theresa's choice of words were poor. (I've heard it was calculated to be exactly as it was delivered, but that's just conjecture.) But how can you compare her words with Cheney's behavior? Theresa has nowhere near the power and responsibility of our Vice President since she's not running for office, and she certainly didn't swear. Those may not be salient differences to some of you, but if we're going to bother criticizing people because of their speech, they sure are to me.
That all changed with Bush. I couldn't figure out where I'd been when he decided to invade Iraq. I saw no connection, so I figured I must've had my head buried in the sand. So I started digging and digging. And I still couldn't find a good reason to go there.
This board has helped tremendously in my education. For the most part, I get to see what both parties think of this situation, and how they generally conduct themselves. So, thanks, everybody, for helping to educate me.
That said, I've also noticed recently that, like Kick said, all this bickering has gotten out of hand. Why can't anybody just admit when they're wrong? I hope the purpose of these discussions isn't to win per se, but to arrive at some truth in situations. And we're never going to get there if we refuse to admit when the other side has a point we didn't see earlier.
Yes, I think Theresa's choice of words were poor. (I've heard it was calculated to be exactly as it was delivered, but that's just conjecture.) But how can you compare her words with Cheney's behavior? Theresa has nowhere near the power and responsibility of our Vice President since she's not running for office, and she certainly didn't swear. Those may not be salient differences to some of you, but if we're going to bother criticizing people because of their speech, they sure are to me.
QUOTE
jqueer:
To clarify, are you saying she claims not to have blown off the reporter or claims she didn't say what the reporter was trying to attribute to her when she did blow him off?
She denied making comments like "un-Pennsylvanian" and "un-American" when they were right there on tape for all the world to see. This is where she came across as a nutjob. The woman's just whacked out. Definitely 1 variety short of 57.
To clarify, are you saying she claims not to have blown off the reporter or claims she didn't say what the reporter was trying to attribute to her when she did blow him off?
QUOTE
Seph:
Hey! Just like a certain \"Ump\" who used to have/be a personality around here. What a coincidence!
Good God! Not that again. Hey! Just like a certain \"Ump\" who used to have/be a personality around here. What a coincidence!
Why don't you do a frickin' IP search? That ought to shut you up once and for all.
[ July 27, 2004, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: MIB ]
[quote]mdphl:
[quote]Seph
[ [/quote]You can add me to the list of witnesses, Raze. I saw \"Federal Judge\" on numerous occassions in his profile, and will be prepared to testify to such in \"federal court.\" Oh, the credibility! [/QB][/quote]Add me to that list also - I saw it as well. [/QB][/quote]
Perhaps you should testify to it then. With no evidence, you'd be laughed right out of court. Such the conspiracy group you spiteful children are.
I have repeatedly asked--demanded--for proof of Raze's and others' false contentions. To date, all I get is BS "Uh, I saw it..." comments so conveniently and systematically said by the same people, people with the same ricidulous agenda.
[quote]Seph
[ [/quote]You can add me to the list of witnesses, Raze. I saw \"Federal Judge\" on numerous occassions in his profile, and will be prepared to testify to such in \"federal court.\" Oh, the credibility!
[/QB][/quote]Add me to that list also - I saw it as well. [/QB][/quote]Perhaps you should testify to it then. With no evidence, you'd be laughed right out of court. Such the conspiracy group you spiteful children are.
I have repeatedly asked--demanded--for proof of Raze's and others' false contentions. To date, all I get is BS "Uh, I saw it..." comments so conveniently and systematically said by the same people, people with the same ricidulous agenda.
MIB, I too saw your occupation listed as a "Federal Judge" for many months. That's pretty much all the evidence I need to know your true character since you won't own up to it. You are only left with calling those who speak the truth liars. Talk about the "Oh, the hypocricy!" You are THE ultimate poster child.
It's nice that you've totally ruined your credibility here though. Makes all your points...well, pointless.
BTW, how do you say "shove it" in Polish? Cheney should mirror himself after Teresa instead of dropping the F-bomb in the Senate. Maybe her Republican roots were just showing that day. wink
[ July 27, 2004, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: HornFan ]
You are THE ultimate poster child.It's nice that you've totally ruined your credibility here though. Makes all your points...well, pointless.
BTW, how do you say "shove it" in Polish? Cheney should mirror himself after Teresa instead of dropping the F-bomb in the Senate. Maybe her Republican roots were just showing that day. wink
[ July 27, 2004, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: HornFan ]
QUOTE
MIB:
She denied making comments like \"un-Pennsylvanian\" and \"un-American\" when they were right there on tape for all the world to see. This is where she came across as a nutjob. The woman's just whacked out. Definitely 1 variety short of 57.
As has been previously mentioned what is on the tape is Heinz-Kerry saying that politics today, and particularly the Bush White House, are exhibiting un-American traits. The reporter asked her what she meant by un-American activities. She repeatedly told the reporter she had not said that, which he repeatedly ignored, asking the same question. She eventually told the reporter to shove it. In this context the difference between "traits" and "activities" is extreme. The reporter got it wrong, whether to intentionally misrepresent a political opponent or because of an inability to listen is irrelevant. Yes, Heinz-Kerry was rude to a reporter. I think she should have restrained herself. I am more concerned that there is a reporter out there who unappologetically misrepresents sensitive quotes from public figures. This isn't spin. It isn't "out of context." It's refusing to even acknowledge a source who says "I didn't say that" when there is ample recorded evidence to back up what she did say. The story here isn't that Heinz-Kerry shouldn't have been rude to a reporter. The story is that journalists with pro-Bush agendas covering the election are doing so without any challenge from the main stream press.
She denied making comments like \"un-Pennsylvanian\" and \"un-American\" when they were right there on tape for all the world to see. This is where she came across as a nutjob. The woman's just whacked out. Definitely 1 variety short of 57.
Can we PLEASE address the more important subtext in all of this, which is getting NO press outside of Altoona...What does it mean to be un-Pennsylvanian?
As a native Pittsburgher, I have to think it must mean being against:
1. Funnel Cake
2. Perogies
3. Polka
4. the Stillers
5. Joe Paterno
And, of course, the current legislature's great contribution to the storied place of the Commonwealth in the history of American independence ... SLOT MACHINES!
Anything else -- JIP, gobar, mdphl and all you philly guys...help me out here...
As a native Pittsburgher, I have to think it must mean being against:
1. Funnel Cake
2. Perogies
3. Polka
4. the Stillers
5. Joe Paterno
And, of course, the current legislature's great contribution to the storied place of the Commonwealth in the history of American independence ... SLOT MACHINES!
Anything else -- JIP, gobar, mdphl and all you philly guys...help me out here...
QUOTE
What does it mean to be un-Pennsylvanian?
This is a question best answered by PhillyFan!
I think someone forgot to mention a certain beer..
Wow listening to this multi-billion-dollar-i-made-my-money-cause-my-husband-kicked-the-can chic talk... i can only think
You are boring as hell
please learn our language
buy yourself a personality and quit trying to be prim and proper in front of the nation. We can all tell it is nothing more than an act.
she looks terrible in red
Wow listening to this multi-billion-dollar-i-made-my-money-cause-my-husband-kicked-the-can chic talk... i can only think
You are boring as hell
please learn our language
buy yourself a personality and quit trying to be prim and proper in front of the nation. We can all tell it is nothing more than an act.
she looks terrible in red
Some other things are boring as hell too....
She didn't move me either. frown
QUOTE
PhillyFan:
I think someone forgot to mention a certain beer...
Will that be Rolling Rock ("33"), or Yuengling?
I think someone forgot to mention a certain beer...
QUOTE
HornFan:
She didn't move me either.
She moved me in the direction of the remote. Totally wooden and dull as dishwater. My sense is she will not go over well with the public and we'll hear less from her.
She didn't move me either.
Philly-Fan:
Americans have various accents. We are a continous melting pot. Absurd comments like "learn our language" is one of the reasons people hate Americans when we visit other countries... If we treat people with respect, it promotes respect.
I am just as proud and lucky enough to be an American as anyone else. But you know what? My pride does not blind me enough to show respect for differences in others as I hope they respect my own differences.
Your comments really cast you in a bad light sometimes. It may not be a true reflection of who you are, but your words just make me question your respect for others outside yourself.
Americans have various accents. We are a continous melting pot. Absurd comments like "learn our language" is one of the reasons people hate Americans when we visit other countries... If we treat people with respect, it promotes respect.
I am just as proud and lucky enough to be an American as anyone else. But you know what? My pride does not blind me enough to show respect for differences in others as I hope they respect my own differences.
Your comments really cast you in a bad light sometimes. It may not be a true reflection of who you are, but your words just make me question your respect for others outside yourself.
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