To those who say the anti-W crowd NEVER agrees with him ... I was pleased with this portion of rhetoric in his London speech yesterday:

The problem, of course, is that the Sharonites just shrug it off, while to Palestinians trapped by the wall, tough words are \"worthless.\"

Bush will win this. It was planned all along, and it's now needed all the more as a counterweight to the anti-Americanism the war set off.

He freed the Iraqis from Saddam. And he will get an independence for the Palestinians. That will shut the Arab world real good.

But we'll have to wait for the sequel--Bush '04. Otherwise, it will be business as usual (that is, no progress whatsoever).

Right. He freed the Iraqis.....so that they can descend in to a civil war. To see him and the Ruling Junta now claim that the US needs others help in Iraq is sweet. Memo to PNAC types: the left was saying that a year ago. Did you listen? Hell no.

And how exactly is this lunkhead going to get independence for the Palestinians? The Israeli's certainly have no intention of doing that within the current borders--nor should they--and the Palestinians largely consider the US to be the muscle behind Israel. So is Bush going to wave a magic wand and make it happen?

And I'll take my chances on Bush not being around in '04.

Your chances? And, pray, what are they worth? Put money on the table son!

Seriously, he freed the Iraqis and they were and are and will continue to be grateful. Keep wishing for a civil war the way some on the left wished for a long, bloody war in the spring of 03--in your dreams.

The left has been saying a lot for a long time. That's part of the problem. All talk and no action.

He waved the magic wand and got rid of Saddam. He'll do the same for the Palestinians. He's that good.

[ November 20, 2003, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: TomFord ]

I'm not your "son". Luckily. What a maroon. Saddam is still alive presumably. How has that "freed" them? Read this blog, especially the entry of the 18th. If you truly think that the people of Iraq "continue to be grateful", you're delusional.

And since the Bushites didn't plan for the aftermath--and don't bother, I can drag up 20 quotes from them spouting the "They'll shower us with roses" bullshit--the Iraqi people now have the prospect of a puppet government that the US will install purely to funnel the profits from oil and reconstruction to Bechtel, Halliburton etc. And since Iraq is a construct of imperialism anyway, they won't address the ethnic tensions at all. So, once the US pulls out in time for next years election, that's when it will kick off.

And who is Bush supposed to wave his magic wand over for the Palestinians? Arafat isn't going anywhere. If the US or Israel takes him out, that just means Hamas and Islamic Jihad can do their business without pretending to go through the Palestinian Authority.

TomFords Foreign Policy: Kill all opponents and let them sort out the mess afterwards.

[ November 20, 2003, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]

I think it's great that W stated this on Blair's behalf. Because it's just rhetoric for W, the neo-cons and the Christian Right, who are, like extreme right-wing Zionists, underwriting and supporting the continual creation of new settlements. And that wall is going up, no matter what W says.

The truth is that he's not going to do a damn thing to disturb Sharon, who depends upon the right wing members of his cabinet (Shas et. al.) to stay in power. And Israel's Labor Party is not strong enough at this point to offer a viable electoral counterweight. So it's go with the best of worst options--or the worst of worst options with Sharon, however you see it.

Yossi Beilin, however, did recently sign a shadow peace agreement with several high-ranking Palestinians, very much like the one CLINTON negotiated, which would actually be a marked improvement over the current situation, create a two-state solution, give Israel parts of Jerusalem, disarm some of the militants, I believe, and actually allow some Palestinian right-of-return.

Clark has said he'd send Clinton over there, but I wouldn't doubt Dean or Gephardt would find a distinguished enough emissary to work with both parties. W's diplomacy by bullying, force, insult, and lies just ain't cutting it.

So TomFord, say what you will about your hero with his magic wand (I often think you're being utterly sarcastic, so if so, that's pretty funny. His wand consists of 150,000+ US troops and thousands of Britons, over 425 of whom have died, over 1,000 of whom have been seriously injured, many now amputees.) His words were great, but as in so many cases, utterly empty, hollow rhetoric.

[ November 20, 2003, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

Another obstacle to a Palestinean state--one that doesn't get the attention it deserves--is that Jordan does not want a separate Palestinean state on its border! The Jordanian government is perfectly happy to have the focus remain on Israel and its Palestinean problems.

~Adam

Give the man time. It's not rhetoric. Seriously. The utter transformation of the Middle East. You may not like the preview but you've love the end.

[ November 21, 2003, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: TomFord ]

How much time would he like? Another 5 years? No. The "utter transformation" will be into a big radioactive hole.

Let's see, 5 for him, then 8 for Jeb, and 8 for Condi--the minx has the timetable set up so she gets the lion share of the praise.

TomFord

Wrote:
Let's see, 5 for him, then 8 for Jeb, and 8 for Condi--the minx has the timetable set up so she gets the lion share of the praise.
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That would be such a nightmare Planet of the Apes comes to mind - it would be "A MADHOUSE...A MADHOUSE!".