Well Mr. Charisma has finally tied Babe Ruth. Unfortunately. I am not sure how history is going to remember Barry Bonds, but I guarantee the Babe will be much more of a legend even 100 years from now no matter how many homeruns Bonds hit.

It's sure a shame Bonds couldn't have gotten to 714 in style, or with class, or legally. Cheater.

I do think in the future, the home run chase will be even that more exciting as fans (especially us Dodgers fans) will be wanting to see someone take any and all records away from Bonds.

There are many words to describe Babe Ruth. "Class" isn't one of them.

LXN

The Babe may have been as miserable a human being as Bonds is (though that's a difficult thing to achieve), but he sure didn't hit his way to 714 home runs using a host of performance enhancing drugs.

I'm not convinced Bonds is the only one who belongs in the hall of shame. But this is such a weird time with that milestone being tied and no one knows whether to celebrate or break something.

Gotta agree...Ruth was an ass hole. A drunken, womanizing ass hole. But he played in New York, the nation's media center. So he has now been elevated into some kind of hero....He isn't much better than Bonds IMO....
I sitll think Bonds career has been impressive. Unfortunately, lots of people have used steroids. They were all using amphetimines back in the 70s...Things have not changed...

I could pick Babe Ruth out of a lineup if I had to do so, but I really don't know why he would be in a lineup. So, what where his sins? Please enlighten me. Was he a bigot? A narcissist? A cheat? Liar? A double-speak master?

Ruth may not have been a better all around player than Bonds, but had he been a hitter for his entire career instead of spending his first few seasons as a pitcher this home run chase would be nonexistant. And Aaron would never have passed him either.

There really aren't too many "class acts" in any professional sport.Let's not kid ourselves.

[ May 21, 2006, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: eddiecat ]

eddiecat, sure there are lots of 'class acts' in professional sports. All over the place. Brad Ausmus who just won the King of the Hardwoods would have to qualify as a class act. Tennis players abound with class acts. But I don't think sports are really your thing so I can forgive the oversight.

Speaking of King Ausmus- has anyone been able to let him know and get an interview with him?

I guess I have to assume you are joking again.I wish you wouldn't even reply to my threads but I guess that's too much to ask.

[ June 14, 2006, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: eddiec. ]

Of course there are numerous class acts in sports but, as is true in other fields as well, they don't make much noise and get the attention of the press. Almost by definition, class acts go about their business without needing to draw attention to themselves.

As for Bonds and the 714 milestone, I wish Selig and the powers that be in the game had the balls to suspend him pending the completion of the investigation of the allegations of his use of banned substances (and yes, there should be many other players suspended along with Bonds.) If Bonds then wanted to take the game to court to be reinstated, let him--it would just eat up more time for the investigation to continue. As it is now, I foresee Bonds' accomplishments being striken from the record books.

~Adam

Time heals all wounds, as they say, and past sins always pale next to the current ones. Steroids are simply the corked bats of the last twenty-odd years. Players and teams have been "trying to get away with it" since Abner Doubleday magically invented the game out of whole cloth back in the 1800s. This doesn't make it "right", mind you - it's just the way it is. You can't stop players from trying to tip the odds in their favor - you can only hope to catch them at it.

My theory is that organized baseball wouldn't dare do anything to jeopardize its biggest story while it's ongoing, and will decide not to do anything about it afterwards. (Do you change all the wins to losses?) Baseball purists will howl, as they do, but the stats will remain in the books. Then, in thirty years (or whatever), when some player is chasing Bonds' "untouchable" record, purists will complain that the new player was genetically altered at birth, and Bonds never had that advantage. And the sun will still come up, and the rivers will keep flowing to the sea, and the Rockies will still start their slide in July.

LXN

If Bonds's records are going to be "stricken," will the homers of all the other juicers also be stricken? McGwire? Sosa? Palmeiro? Giambi? Etc. I think it's still an amazing accomplishment. If MLB wants to get serious and stay serious, then whoever hereafter who's not roided and approaches Bonds's record (A-Rod, Pujols, Guerrero, etc.) will garner that much more praise.

There's nothing the league can do about it. Bonds did not violate the rules of baseball, so they can't put a star by his name. It is possible that Bonds could still get indicted by a grand jury for perjury. But even if he is indicted and found guilty, that's a violation of the law and shouldn't, in my opinion, affect his on-the-field accomplishments. My disappointment with Barry is that he did something morally wrong, and won't own up to it. Even Giambi admitted to taking the same stuff Bonds allegedly took. But, as you guys pointed out already, lots of players did stuff that was morally wrong and they're in the Hall of Fame, so, unless the league is going to adopt a new standard for Bonds, they have to honor his accomplishments. He will definitely make the Hall of Fame. But I still don't think he will break Hank Aaron's record now that he can't juice up any more (yeah, I believe he did). Look how long it took him to get his last two dingers.

This is such a big old yawn. Just let Barry do what he does. The microscope is ridiculous.

It's sure a shame Ruth couldn't have gotten to 714 in an integrated league, facing relief specialists who threw 95 mph, and without using illegal drugs (alcohol).

Bill, there's a difference between drugs which are simply illegal and those which are performance enhancing. It's true that Ruth didn't have to face a league with black players or, for that matter, Latin players. But he did face one where every single boy in the country played his sport and wanted to reach the big leagues. He also out-performed his contemporaries to such a degree that his relative greatness is likely never to be surpassed, possibly in any sport.

Oh, and he won championships. Still waiting for that World Series ring on Bonds' finger.

I have no problem with Bonds passing Ruth, however. It's not interesting to me - and MLB's biggest problem is the degree to which it's not interesting to so many people - but I will start getting a bit more agitated should he seriously threaten Aaron's mark.

There's a reason every sport in the world considers performance enhancing drugs to be one of the top two threats to their sport (gambling is the other): it puts unimaginable pressure on other competitors at all levels to do the same, or they will lose their livelihood. A non-juiced competitor in an all-drugs-acceptable world becomes like a moder tennis player using a wooden racquet--a loser. And it will inevitably turn people off, because they'll no longer be watching the miracle of humans doing the best they can, the emotional drama that comes with that. They'll be watching a simulation, and the enjoyment will rapidly fade. And with it, the money.

How do we know Babe Ruth didn't use the enhancements of the day or whether or not he broke any rules along the way?

Ah, baseless speculation about a hero of the game! What better way to enable someone like Bonds, or Giambi, or McGwire. At least Bill W. points to legitimate -- if equally misdirected and beyond the point -- facts.

By the way, I think there's plenty of blame to go around in what Bonds did. I'm happy to lay it ALL at the feet of MLB, quite honestly. But let's deal with the issue and facts at hand rather than blowing up the discussion with flat-out fallacies.

I happen to think Babe Ruth is unsurpassed as a player who changed the very nature of the game (he was a helluva pitcher too, you know). But this "sad day for baseball" crap reached the tipping point a month ago.

Guys, I assure you, things are only going to get worse for Bonds. This is not about to go away; not with Aaron's record still in sight. Even though I don't think Bonds will reach that milestone this year or the next (assuming he doesn't retire) because of the sharp drop in Home Run totals that we saw when Sosa and McGuire had to stop using (where are they now?). But as long as Barry is in the game' as long as he's chasing records; and as long as he continues to profess naievte; speculation about the "legitimacy" of his accomplishments will not fade away. It's only going to get more intense no matter how many HRs Pujols hits.

ESPN has taken "Bonds On Bonds" off their schedule after 9 episodes (this coming Monday being the 9th) -- is it possible that even hockey on OLN got better ratings?

Am I the only one who thought "Bonds on Bonds" sounded like an S&M video?

I don't watch ESPN, but it seems like every time we go out to a restaurant, they have a TV tuned to SportsCenter. It's odd to see them cut away from their broadcast to go to the Giants' current game LIVE! so you can see Bonds...ground out to short. I can almost see the frustration in the anchors' faces - "Just knock one out already!"

LXN

Regarding "Bonds on Bonds" and the ESPN obsession with him, it's rather funny to listen to the anchors say following one of Bonds' non-homers (often with more than little dispair in the voice) "We'll take you to the ballpark again if Barry Bonds gets back up to bat during this program." Even they're tired of it.

The LA Times reported that at one of the stadia, a few people brought signs reading FREE PEDRO GOMEZ!! (the ESPN reporter embedded with the Giants.)

And as to Bonds' relatively slow pace to break the record, Bud Geracie of the San Jose Mercury News offers this solution: "Give the guy some steroids and get this thing over with."

~Adam

[ May 28, 2006, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: Adam ]

Well Bonds has hit 715, and I for one am glad.

Lots of guys take steriods (see Giambi, Jason), and the only one who gets shit for it is Bonds. Furthermore, even with all the other guys taking steroids, still no one is close to the amounnt of HR's that Bonds has.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Barry Bonds supporter or lover by any means, but I don't think he should be the only guy in baseball getting negative shit.

Josh

715 down, 41 to go. Here's hoping he can get it done quickly. Then, those that want to can crown him, those that want to can deride him, and we can find something else to focus on in sports.

LXN

Maybe that's because he's the only one threatening Aaron's record.

McGwire and Sosa would be getting the same negative reactions if they were still playing. Giambi isn't being investigated for perjury and also made a public apology. Bonds most likely did steroids, very possibly lied to the grand jury and most definitely acts like a jackass much more often than he acts like a decent human being.

Congrats, Barry!

Since I have no idea what kind of person you are in real life, I'm gonna simply thank you for the on-the-field baseball memories and leave it at that, lest someone judge me on some small slice of my life visible to the public.

Congrats, Barry!

Easy for you to say. In Pittsburgh Barry wasn't pumped up.

He still acted like an ass, though.

It's understandable why Giants fans feel the way they do. They see the writing on the wall; the glory years are fading fast. The team they love; the team they know as annual World Series contender is fading before their eyes. They don't have Moises Alou, Bonds gets on base a lot but is walked much of the time, the team's Batting Average is middle of the pack, and their pitching is mediocre. This Giants are struggling. This year's team is not something Giants fans are used to seeing. Where would they be without Barry? He's their Savior. In my opinion, he's the only reason they have any chance at post-season play.

[ May 28, 2006, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: Thomas ]

Click here for an interesting article about baseball, Mark Sweeney & Barry Bonds.

I wonder if Cyd is second guessing his Let the Reporters Fry expose from 8.16.06 now that Tom Brady has been linked to Bonds and Balco. Maybe the reporters with their silly First Amendment rights are actually trying to save sports as we know it.

I mean if every Hall of Famer to be in every sport have ties to Balco, it could quite possibly sour people on sports in general.

Unless of course it shows that every elite athlete has juiced in one way or another and we should all just get the hell over it.

I'm currently reading Will Carroll's book The Juice, about PEDs in baseball, and highly recommend it to those who are interested in a deliberate, investigative exploration of the issue. (Hysterics, as you were.)