Hey Ump! This is only my second post, but I just wanted to say hello. I've just been browsing and love this section of the board. I think it's so cool that there are other gay umpires out there.

I am sure there are lots more in the amateur ranks, based on numbers, of course. Hi to Josh, too! I don't feel so unique anymore now that I see a couple others here like me.

Glad to have you aboard, sir. Kudos to one of my umpiring peers.

[ May 27, 2004, 11:27 PM: Message edited by: The Umpire ]

Runner on second with one out when the batter skies a high pop up in the infield, directly over second base. The shortstop is camping underneath the ball but finds himself literally on top of the base, where R2 is stationed. R2, not wanting to get off the base for obvious reasons, pushes F6 away to avoid being bumped off the bag. F6 drops the ball as the batter-runner makes it safely to first.

What's the ruling?

No infield fly???

The umpire should rule that R2's interference was intentional, in which case R2 and batter/runner are both out.

If the R2's hindrance were ruled not to be intentional interference, then everybody's safe, since R2 was in contact with a legally occupied base, and an infield fly has not been called. Rule 7.08 (

Now why the heck would there be an Infield Fly, JJ? Think about it. wink

Umm... 'cause the ump doesn't know the rules any better than I do? That's what comes of trying to think about work and baseball at the same time. Looks like I'll have to quit my job.

No infield fly because there's no runner at first base?

You are correct, Joe. Runners must be on first and second or bases loaded with less than two outs for the Infield Fly Rule to be in effect.

For this particular question I asked, a runner who remains in contact with a base will not be penalized for interference against a fielder trying to catch a fly ball unless it's intentional. If it is intentional, then with two outs the batter is out. With less than two outs, both the batter and runner are out.

Contrast this to the situation where the batter hits a fair ground ball that smacks a runner on a base (infield playing back). Bases do not immunize runners, so the runner would be out for interference, unintentional or not. A little contradictory it would seem, eh?

Good job, Joe. You are becoming quite the rules guru around here--for now at least. wink

Here's a relatively easy one for ya'll...

#1. Runner on second with no outs and a 3-1 count on the batter. The hit and run is called, and the pitch is delivered but it hits the plate for ball four and careems over the backstop out of play. What's the ruling?

Yet another one...

#2. Runners on first and second with one out and a high pop fly is hit a little behind the first baseman. The ball hits the roof speakers and falls to the ground where the first baseman picks it up to throw to first, but the ball hits R1 standing off the bag in his back. He falls to the ground in pain off the bag when the defense picks up the ball and tags him.

What's the ruling?

Wow. Two days and no one wants to guess, eh? I didn't think these two would be THAT tough. wink

I'll take a stab at this....

#1: R2 gets home due to the ball being out of play behind the backstop. Batter/runner gets 2nd base.

#2: Infield Fly Rule should apply here with the pop fly being just behind the 1st baseman and there being runners on 1st and 2nd. If it does not apply here, the roof speakers are still in play. The batter/runner can always run through 1st base as long as he does not make an attempt for 2nd base and then gets tagged. R1 gets first base.

Not quite correct, Bill. Anyone else want to give it a shot? (And I thought at least the first one would be easy. )

Play #01: Ball four... The batter takes his base. The runner on second remains on second base (as the batter received a walk).

Play #02: The runner on first base is out. That is about all I can get out of that one

RULING: Because the pitch went out of play, everyone is awarded ONE base from the time of the pitch. The batter is awarded first; R2 is awarded third.

Infield Fly is called. The roof speakers are considered in play. The batter is out on the I.F., and R1 is out when tagged by the defense, since the ball remains live. Note: Had R2 touched home before R1 was tagged out, his run would have scored.

Here's a doozy. In fact, I'm going to muddy the waters by providing two possible outcomes. By providing them, I will confuse the heck out of ya.

With a runner on third base and two outs, an improper batter is at the plate with a 2-2 count. As the pitch is delivered for strike three, R3 takes off to home. The batter swings for strike three but the ball is a wild pitch, allowing the batter-runner to take off to first, where he makes it there safely. The defense then properly appeals batting out of order.

Now, we know the guy who SHOULD have batted is declared out for the third out. But here's the big question: Does the run score?

Be careful with this one, guys. You have one of two things to consider:

When the final out of an inning is the result of a batter's failure to touch or reach first, no runs can score on the play. The improper batter is removed and the proper batter is declared out, never having reached first. So the run doesn't score, right? Or does it? After all, runners who advance independent of the improper batter's actions are allowed to advance (everyone else being returned to time of pitch bases), and regardless of whether the proper batter or improper batter would have been declared out, R3 scores, right? It's just considered a "stolen" base, correct?

Oh, this is a bitch of a dilemma you've got here! This one's just pure evil. Sadistic. What can I say?

Good luck.

My thoughts: Improper batter on the 3rd out is an exception. Batter is called out upon appeal and run is not permitted to score.

"If a runner advances while the improper batter is at bat (stolen base, balk, wild pitch, passed ball, etc.) such an advance is legal." Therefore, the run should count since the appeal was after the run had scored. Kind of like a "timing play" in my mind I guess.

The run does not score.

Any advance or outs made because of an improper batter becoming a runner would be nullified if the defensive team appeals at the proper time.

The run does not score since he was able to advance because the improper batter became a runner via the dropped third strike. Also, you shouldn't penalize the defensive team for the mistake of the offensive team. The defense did everything right if they appealed at the right time. They shouldn't have to give up a run.

Here's another one...

Runners on first and third with no outs with R1 running on the pitch. The batter swings away and raps a hard liner up the middle. The airborne line drive smacks the rubber and ricochets high into the air directly to the dugout on the first base side, where the catcher gloves it and fires to first. What's the ruling?

Foul ball since it touched the field of play and then went foul before first base.

Double play, run scores.

They mentioned something similar during the Mets game last night with the overhead speakers in "The Big O". If the ball hits something other than the field in flight and continues to be in flight, it is a ball in play based on where on the field the object that is hit is.

Therefore hitting the rubber in flight makes it a fair ball, and the batter is out when it is finally caught by the catcher. The runner on first is then doubled off when the catcher throws over to the base.

So if it hits say the front right corner of first base and goes into foul ground in the air and is caught, it would be the same? I'd think it would have to establish itself as a fair ball first, which would mean it's touched or stops before the bases in fair ground, or hits something beyond (or crosses) first and third. It seems that the pitching rubber is as much in the field of play as bases would be- they can't not have one, right?

This should be a double play. I think if a ball hits the rubber in flight and goes into foul territory and onto the ground, it is a foul ball.
Since the catcher caught the ball in flight, the ball should still be in play and be the first out, R1 would then be doubled off of first for the second out.

You are correct, and for the precise reason.

First of all, there is a specific case note in the Official Baseball Rules under 2.00 Definition of Foul Ball that addresses this. Secondly, as you stated, the ball had not passed first or third base, and when a batted untouched ball goes into fair territory then into foul territory without passing first or third, then is touched in foul territory as was the case here, it is a foul ball.

Also, once the ball hit the rubber it was no longer in flight.

Here's something interesting to ponder: When a ground ball rolls into the infield and not down either foul line, just when is the ball considered to have "passed first or third"? We always think of this in terms of the ball going down the line and passing the bags (or not). But when the ball goes into the infield and is not yet touched but somehow goes back into foul territory, there must be some point when the ball is considered fair, in a sense.

This point is a line connecting first and third bases, the diagonal of the square. Let's think of this in terms of geometry. A square has 4 sides of 90 feet each. The diagonal of the square obviously cuts it in half into two triangles, each triangle's longest side--its hypotenuse--being this diagonal line. (If you were to measure it, its distance would be 90 * √2, or 90 times radical 2, which comes to 127' 3 3/8".) BTW, I did not even use a calculator for this. wink

This line is considered the point of demarcation across which a ball becomes fair, even if it then somehow proceeds to go foul. Essentially, the ball has "passed" first or third when it crosses this diagonal. Because the rubber is not across this line--it rests in front of it--a ball that strikes the rubber then caroms into foul territory is foul.

Thus endeth today's geometry lesson.

Professor Ump.

[ July 30, 2004, 12:38 AM: Message edited by: The Umpire ]

I'm taking my bat and glove and going home!!! :mad:

Blue,

I just came across this thread and really enjoyed reading through it from start to finish and trying to guess the correct answers along the way. Thank you for starting and maintaining this informative and enjoyable forum.

Scott, welcome aboard, and thank you for such kind words. It truly is my pleasure to do this, and I consider it a privilege to be given a forum like this on Outsports.

Pray tell, Mr. Ump, what you thought of the "obstruction" call that ended an extra-innings game last week between Seattle and Tampa Bay.
Blocking a runner's view is not specifically outlawed, correct?
And isn't it the third-base coach's job to tell the runner when to tag up, regardless of how a view is blocked?

zcar, that's a good question. I saw this mentioned on ESPN.com and was wondering what happened. ESPN didn't specify it. What DID happen, z?

I'm curious to find about this too.

Your use of the phrase "blocking the runner" itself is an admission of obstruction. Remember, contact need not occur for obstruction to be called. If in any way a fielder hinders or impedes a runner's advance or return to a base, obstruction can be called. What form of obstruction or how that obstruction is committed is our judgment.

Jose Lopez hindered Carl Crawford's ability to legitimately tag up; he obstructed Crawford's advance to home. This is why obstruction was called.

It's an unusual and uncommon way to obstruct, but no one said obstruction has to always involve a fielder smashing into a runner. wink

For what it's worth, I thought obstruction was a good call there.
My reaction seeing it on replay:
"What a stupid rookie mistake."
and
"Lou Piniella would have ripped Lopez a new one if that happened on his watch."

However, had Lopez been Derek Jeter in that instance, I wonder if the umps would have even thought of it.
In fact, word is the ump wasn't even looking at the play, but was watching the outfielder catch the ball.

And what "word" was that?

The crew was exactly where they were supposed to be in a situation like that. Remember, the bases were loaded.