Hey all, I read alot of posts and am sometimes enlightned and usually entertained, but I rarely post....bit of shyness I guess. Anyway, a recent "discussion" in one of the football boards brought to mind an issue of my own.

So I hear alot of dissing of bandwagon fans. I guess this refers to fans who get interested in a club when they are winning and are along for the "fun" but who's interest wanes when that team's record begins to flag? And a fairweather fan would be something very similar, right?

So, when NHL first came to Dallas, I started watching (the Stars, mostly) and came to admire the game. I still watch alot of hockey and follow several teams beside the Stars. So, I am an NHL fan, not necessarily a "Stars" fan as I still enjoy the sport despite thre fact that the Stars fortunes have fallen a bit....right?

The same with baseball and football...I enjoy the game and seem partial to teams and programs that at least project an attitude of good sportsmanhip and "family values", such as the Texas Rangers...they bite the big one now, but I still love to watch them play...same with the Braves..because they seem to be a honorable bunch of fellows.

As a follow up...why do the "real" fans seem to disdain the bandwagon and fairweather variety so much?

Hey Hummer!

Yes, it appears you have a good hold on the "logic" behing the terms.

Personally, I don't have a REAL big problem with bandwagon fans. I understand (to a small degree) PF's resentment but personally don't lose sleep over when a person started to follow a certain team. My resentment with PF is he think ALL Bucs fans are bandwagon when in fact there were always about 40,000 of us in the old stadium for EVERY home game when they SUCKED! The Eagles (in fact, every team) had their lean years (remember 3-13 PF??) when their fan base wained.

Although I've been with the Bucs since I moved to Tampa in 89 and during those early years questioned at times why my money was being spent to an owner that didn't care about the "product" on the field. Owners changed and times changed, and I'm fortunate that I rode out the storm. I now have GREAT seats in a GREAT stadium and now view GREAT football. Now the Buccaneers have 80,000 + on a waiting list for season tickets and the atmosphere at the games is INCREDIBLE, especially with Buccanner Cove and the Pirate Ship!!!! (that was for PF's benefit although the Cove does intensify the experience of games in Tampa and brings extra value to homefield advantage)

I personally think Phillyfan is bitter and envious (to the extremes) that his team lost at home, in the cold, in the NFC Championship game to the better team. To top that off the Buccaneers went on the next week to win the Super Bowl. With the fame has come the fortune -increased media coverage and fan base.

As far as disdain for the fairweather/bandwagon fan. I have none. With the increased fan base has come MANY more options in Buccanneer stuff to buy. When I moved here you could hardly find a Bucs shirt to buy in Tampa stores. Now there are hundreds of options here and many options for Bucs gear in stores nationwide. As demand for the product (team) has risen so has the price and demand for tickets to the game. When I moved to Tampa I could pick up a ticket to a game for 0 - $15.00, now unless you have have lots of cash in your pockets your attempts to find tickets is pointless. You'll pay at least twice face value for a ticket, if you're able to find someone selling. Additionally, the BEST thing about it is now the stadium is SOLD OUT WITH SEASON TICKET HOLDERS!!!! Gone is the day when opposing teams would bring fans down to Tampa for a week of Florida beaches, palm trees, amusement parks and parties - and usually a win for the visitors. Now if they come down they better bring $$$ and risk not going to the game.

So it's all good - the life of a Buccaneer!

[ August 01, 2003, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: PewterPirate ]

Time for some definitions here...

Fair Weather fan... This is the group that casually looks at the box score of say the dbacks... First round of the the playoffs, say eh, whatever... then when the NLCS comes around and they are one game from going to world series... everyone pays attention.. and soccer moms all over scottsdale put their Dback flag on the car. Then all of a sudden when the dbacks couldnt sell out a playoff game, tickets are hard to find.

The Bandwagon... This is the person.. who when looking in their closet has a... steve young jersey, followed by a emmitt jersey.. and they just purchased their sapp jersey... simply jump from team to team.. whoever is winning.

Is that fun for them? sure it is... now is it the same sort of joy that someone who stuck with team through thick and thin, then enjoyed the thrill of victory? Hardly.

OH MY GOD!!

I agree with Philly fan.....

In my case, I'm neither fairweather or bandwagon.

I guess I'm just a die-hard fan. Since my closet is full of pewter, red, black and white and a splash of orange. I even have the orange Harper and authentic old school Dilfer (who i hated) jersey.

I'm in the middle of reading the book "True Believers: The Tragic Inner Life of Sports Fans" by Joe Queenan--the chapter I'm up to now is about frontrunning fans and he's got multiple categories of them (celebrity frontrunners, for one).

Wrong sport, but I've been an Angels fan since 1974 (thanks a hell of a lot Nolan Ryan) and in that period I've been through some HELLISH seasons. So, to see the bandwagon hopping last year was disgusting to me. I told a couple of Dodger fans to f**k off back to Chavez Ravine. I understand it, but still. Luckily, it's business as usual this year and tickets are easy to get again.

I saw it happen with football though. Early 70's: *shudder* Dallas *shudder* or Miami. Late 70's: Steelers. Early 80's: Raiders. And so on. There was a guy in my high school that we all mocked because he went through about 3 teams in 4 years. Thing is, parity (or as some would say, parody) has made dynasties next to impossible in the NFL.

I think the Falcons have got a large vehicle ready, and the driver is putting the key in the ignition to fire up the bandwagon for them this year.

[ August 01, 2003, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]

You know....

In just looking at the NFL, I would say there is such a thing as... Fan Envy... and this is what i mean.

Teams like the... Brown, Steelers, redskins, broncos, eagles, chiefs... Ones loyalty is never questioned. Why? Because those cities and fans will support their teams. All you need is a SLIGHT chance to win... a slight chance to make the playoffs...

Then there is another whole subset... like say the falcons. When they suck... no one really gives a shit... when they are good... well everyone lumps on.

Honestly, if the Cards won 10 games this year (chuckle) and made the playoffs... and the house was packed... i would laugh at them. To a degree i understand that the owner here is just horrible. But no one puts any pressure on the guy, it's almost expected that they lose, or he screws the fans...ect ect ect.

Lets say they start winning for 3 consecutive years and the place is sold out... are these really "fans" or are they front runners?

And sorry guys, where tampa may have a subset of fans that are true... the majority fall into the front runner category.

PF, you hit on another tying I have noticed. Why is it some teams have fans that are SERIOUS DIE HARDS, no matter that championships (see the Cubs) or even wins (see the Browns...although last season was fun to watch) are very hard to come by...year after year of heartache, yet the fans are loyal and passionate. For other franchises, it is either feast or famine. What makes the difference?

I don't mind fair-weather fans as long as they are rooting for MY Team, which happens to be America's Team. wink

ewwwwwwwwwww what is that smell? oh yeah, the cowboy fan came in....

Dont you think it has something to do with civic pride... why else could you root for say.. buffalo when they lost 4 SB's in the 90's or was it 3? Perhaps a combination of that and a town falling in love with a team... like say Denver.

Atlanta would be a town filled with apathy. How many other cities would kill for a team like the braves, yet they cant people to care about them anymore...

Your team wasn't America's Team even when it was America's Team.

JIP (can't help but think "joined in progress") is sounding like PF! eek!

First you take up for PhillyFan and show him support (the HORRORS!), and now this? I see so much "Cowboy Envy" on this site and they're not even contenders in recent history. :confused:

Wait til they start winning AGAIN! wink :cool: Bwahahahahahahaha!

Not at all--I merely speak the truth!

I am personally best friends with PewterPirate and that boys lives in a world all his own... But HornFan TRULY is in a World all his own when he said "Wait till the Cowboys start winning again". Being that I will be 40 next month, I don't see it happening in my lifetime. Parsells is going to be one of the greatest flops in all of sports, and Dallas will get what they deserve(many losing seasons) for their abandoning of GREAT players such as Aikmen and Emmitt Smith. On ESPN.com there is an article about Smith running his mouth off about Dallas and former teammmates, and Jerry Jones says "he never has to say he is sorry to us" all the while knowing he kicked him to the curb.
But I will give it to you Hornfan, not even alot of OLD Dallas fans have stuck with the team, as it seems you have.

Your "so called" recent history is becoming like say... a decade of losing there horn... Which all started falling apart when jimmy johnson left... not to be confused with JIM johnson the Eagles D coordinator.

I would say that it might be nice if the cowgirls could give someone a game this year, it is getting quite old to put the beer down at halftime against them.... look at the other eagle appologists around and shout... book it. NO NO NO cowboy fans, book the win... not your OL into jail... Thats my bad, i wont make anymore jail references.

When you've been a Cowboys fan as long as I have, it's "recent history". We'll be back! Those 5 trophys are getting lonely. What? No Lombardi's in Philly? Too bad, so sad.

BTW, da 'Boys have won the Super Bowl post Jimmy Johnson. How quickly PF forgets the facts.

Aikman and Emmitt were past their prime when they were let go, IMHO, so I don't think the Cowboys "deserve" to lose for letting nature take it's course. It was time for both of them to move on, especially Aikman with his propensity for concussions. I'm sure you noticed Troy couldn't find another team to play for and AZ is using Emmitt as a marketing tool, not to win any more games than than usually do.

If I were going to ever leave the Cowboys as a fan, it would have been the day Jerry Jones bought the team. :mad: I figure he can't live forever and hopefully I'll outlast him. I admit I cancelled my Dallas Cowboys Weekly Newspaper when Jimmy left and never re-subscribed as my little message to Jerry's ego and pocketbook.

Parcells can't do any worse than Dave Campo and it appears Jerry is doing less coaching now, so I see a move in the right direction for the Cowboys.

Dear Bucs Fans: What goes up, MUST come down...it's the law. :cool:

[ August 02, 2003, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: HornFan ]

I'm amazed that so many diehard fans still exist.

Having grown up in Los Angeles, it was easy back in the day to maintain some kind of identity with the Dodgers, Lakers and Rams.

But then the business of sports came to the forefront: franchises came and went, ownership changed, free agency became the way to build a club.

The net result was the alienation of so many fans. Previously, clubs could count on civic pride to maintain a loyal fan base. But with the escalation of players' salaries, the transitory nature of the "team" and the obvious profit-taking, any degree of loyalty has been challenged.

Owners are looking out for owners, players looking out for players. Becoming and staying a fan for a specific team seems unlikely.

Now, I base my loyalties on specific players, coaches or owners. Tim Duncan is a great player, I respect him and will watch him whenever I get a chance. Because of this, I'm something of a Spurs fan. If he were traded to Orlando, I'd probably become a Magic fan.

I respect and admire Jon Gruden. I used to be something of a Raider fan (despite the owner)but now cheer for the Bucs.

I really respect Mark Cuban and think he's done great things for basketball.

So my allegiances are now based on specific players, coaches or owners ... not so much on the often-exploited civic pride. (To wit: I wonder how loyal the Reds' fans are feeling now?)

My boss grew up in Cincy and I was giving him a hard time about the Reds yesterday and I said "where's Marge when you need her?" He said she'd fit right in with the current bunch....he's not a happy camper.

you know horn...when johnson left the cowboys.. a monkey could have coached that team to the SB... and in fact, one did... You know the Cowboy dynasty that the vikings built... oops.

Mr Parcells... how is he gonna do without his boy... billachick... he's got his own gig in NE right now....

Hey, i'm wondering if the Yuckaneer fans are celebrating that wonderful victory they had today.... they can have a parade (where only a few hunder thou show up) and say... you're starters may have beaten us, but look, at our scrubs who have no chance to make the team, they kicked your ASS... GO BUCS... Battle Flags HO... heh... and yes pewter, we know they won a game last year.. try something new...

Wow, PF are you feeling ill or anything today? You've shown great respect for the Cowboys' talent, dynasty etc. all in just one post. We are very proud of fleecing a dynasty at the Vikes expense. The Vikings still can't even manage the clock on draft day. :confused:

(BTW, if you think my disdain for Jerry Jones is bad, don't get me started on that Switzer ass**** from Mobilehoma. Oh the humanity!!!)

Oh god! Our season is over. That one drives shows we cannot win any games this year, I am throwing myself off the skyway! Come on PF, even you aren't THAT stupid???

Excellent post there, 6iron.

It was really sad to see what happened to the Rams here in Los Angeles. They had a great fan base, just loved the team. Sure, the Coliseum was an aging facility in a poor neighborhood, but The Blonde just pulled up stakes and moved to where the money was, Anaheim. They ruined what had been an excellent baseball stadium, the Big A, to make it multi-purpose. It was too big for baseball and the layout meant that if you were in the "outfield" seats for football, the Crab Nebula was closer than the field was. The team started to fall apart, they let Dickerson go, fans got tired of traveling all that way for a crap team, it just spiralled downwards. To see them win that Super Bowl in St. Louis was horrifying.

The Raiders? Two words: Al Davis. 'Nuf said. Don't believe for a second the lie that "LA didn't support the Raiders".

It's tough being a fan sometimes.

I guess if I had to be labeled I'd be labeled 'fair weather.' I never paid much attention to Football until the recent New England Super Bowl year. My labmate was a huge Patriots fan, but before the 'good' year, he would brush off my inquiries of how the Patriots were doing with a surly (but polite) "I don't want to talk about it." When NE made their run to the playoffs and the Super Bowl, we couldn't shut him up! It's hard not to be affected by such enthusiasm.

Now I actually watch football. Ironically, I try to avoid NE games, as I find it too emotionally draining to enjoy it.

There is something to be said for the"DIE HARD" Fans. In fact, that is what I got sewn onto the Bucs jersey that I wore to the super bowl "DIE HARD SINCE 1979." My first game to see Bucs was when I was 14 against the Giants with Phil Simms playing. . . now his son is trying to make the team. That November day forward, I was so taken with the sport and team, I've loyally followed them ever since.
Being a long time supporter of poor teams makes success (finally!!) that much sweeter. . . Fans of Cincinnati, Saints, Arizona, Detroit and Seattle. .. . hang in there. You'll eventually (maybe??) wear a championship cap with pride knowing you hung in there through a lot of bad to reep the good!!!

Good post, 6iron....I agree. I tend to watch mostly the sports I find I enjoy the most, baseball, then hockey, then college and pro football. But I like the game more than the team, with few exceptions. I first learned to love football while a teen in Jacksonville, FL (way before the Jaguars and Bucs), so have been a rabid Dolphins fan for a long time...and now with Rickey Williams and Seau! Awright! I have been a well-wisher (not quite a fan) to the Bucs since just before heaven on earth, also know as Alstott, came to Tampa. I have always loved the Rangers, even though they are in the cellar...they are a bunch of good, honest, hardworking players.

That being said, I also prefer and patronize teams with players I admire, such as the D-backs and Astros.

With the sad reality that teams (via the owners) are alot less about sport and alot more about $$ (although Mark Cuban makes me want to watch the Maverick and I do not like basketball), I can understand why its so easy to stop loving a team when it rots and fall apart from the inside due to greed and lack of morals (see the Dallas Cowboys).

I fall into the category of Long Suffering Fan. I'm an Eagles fan! Agree with what most everyone has said but it is a bitter pill to swallow when teams like the Bucs and the Pats win and to see the bandwagon fans celebrating. Conversely, pretty neat when a team like the Ravens wins to give some satisfaction to the excellent Baltimore football fans and in baseball a team like the Angels and their loyal fans.

Long suffering would be me for the Bucs since 76. But hey, as you see there is hope! I cried SB sunday. I am not real fond of the bandwagoners we have except it brings Tampa more notoriety.

Now if only my Devil Rays could turn around! Lightning seem to be putting together some good years also.