First of all CONGRATS!!!!!

I had to tape the show so I could watch all the games, but I still had to check back to see what was happening. I finally watched the tape this morning.

There definitely had to be a lot of editing to get all of this down to only 1 hour. I am sure all of the things going through our minds came out in court (that it was never said he was gay on Outsports, that no name was ever used, that his picture was removed immediately when contacted, that it took him months to decide to sue after his picture was removed, etc). I am pretty sure that Cyd testified, but it made the show more dramatic showing Jim being nervous. I was a little worried how his jerk attorney tried to trap Jim, but the truth alwas prevails.

I agree too about my feelings now about Harbinson. I never did wonder about his sexuality until seeing how he reacted and what his ex-girlfriend said about her friend. He didn't do himself any favor filing a lawsuit.

Congrats again Jim and Cyd!!! Keep up the good work!

There was so much editing. If they actually followed the format of a full trial, then 99.9 percent of it was edited out to fit the 15 minutes or so of the courtroom proceedings that were actually shown on TV. Until we hear some more from Cyd and Jim, who knows what issues were brought up beyond what was shown on TV?

He's now a public figure -- a reality TV show character. If we can make fun of Britney Spears on this board we can make fun of this sad little man with bad hair (he should've kept the shaved look).

Jim and Cyd, you guys rock! A big congrats to both of you! And I agree with others here that there must of been a great amount of editing. Cannot wait to hear the untold side from both of you.

BTW, does Bravo do repeats of their shows? So sorry to miss the first half. (Had a friend tape it for me.)

There are no repeats listed at Bravo's website. This was a series that got dumped on them when NBC canceled it, and they ended up moving it from a Tuesday evening timeslot to the dead zone of Saturday at noon. I'm guessing they'll never air the series again.

[ October 09, 2005, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]

We just got done with a flag tourney in San Diego, haven't seen the show but can tell all in a couple of days.

As for the editing, I was on the stand for 2 hours and was nervous but thought I did fine. They obviously edited a lot out, but don't know exactly what.

Brace yourself.

I thought it pure luck that you all won.

Your attorneys, for lack of a better word, sucked

I thought they did a fairly good job, despite their lack of experience.

Again, we didn't see all that went on. Remember the key word: editing.

maybe it's because I work with lawyers

Interesting, sure wish I could have gotten to see the show. I wondered why the case was dismissed with such secrecy down in Durham. I was actually really looking forward to hosting Jim and Cyd for the trial. But my guess is that if it had continued in NC the case could have been thrown out before trial, on the First Amendment issue.

But this way, at least from the comments made here, Outsports came out with a win and looking good with some additional publicity. Congrats Jim and Cyd! But it would be great if you guys would fill us athletic supporters (don't you just love that double entendre) in on how they selected the case, what Outsports got from the show, where did you come up with the lawyers, etc. All the inside scoop please, now that you are reality show stars.

I always begin to worry when attorneys launch into the patriotic Constitution argument right off the bat. Brings to mind Otter's defense of the Deltas in Animal House.

Also: I always wanna take a shower after hearing Fieger speak. He's good, but... (shiver)

Looking forward to hearing from Jim and Cyd.

Me, too. When is The Law Firm coming out on DVD? :confused:

Cyd and Jim...the Omarosa and Johny Fairplay of Outsports.

I didn't get to see the episode, but if they showed the outside shots, there is a really cute Outsports poster in the background...so I'm told. wink

I haven't seen the show, but I can tell you that, sitting there in the court room, I thought Jim did a GREAT job. The most important thing: he told the truth every single time. Sure, he was nervous. I was nervous and I wasn't even testifying!! But, he looked great up there. I'll be curious to see how they edited the whole thing; I'm very surprised by these comments.

It seemed to me they were definitely setting Jim up to be the goat to lead us to think the case may be going the other way. While I felt bad for Jim, at the same time I knew the editors were playing with things quite a bit. Knowing Jim I knew there was no way he came off as badly as the show made it out.

That's reassuring to read, Cyd. Unfortunately, the show was edited in such a way that Jim didn't come off very well. In fact, Roy Black made comments about Jim's testimony helping the other side.

I want to hear all the backstage gossip - the more mean-spirited and salacious the better. In addition, I have two questions:

1. Have you found that the show has driven additional traffic to the site?
2. Was there hair and makeup on the set?

[ October 10, 2005, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: Munson Man ]

I'm with you. I watched the show and those 3 attorneys for lack of a better word did indeed suck. I honestly thought you guys were going to lose the case and was wondering how could anyone lose an open and shut case like this. I'm not even a law student and I could've done better than those 3.

I think you guys lucked out and got a fairly intelligent jury who saw through all Geoffrey Fieger's bullshit.

I didn't see the show, but I can't wait til it is re-run so I can see it. I got home last night to see if it would be repeated in the next couple days, and from last night thru tomorrow, with the exception of a couple "Paid Programming" shows, there's nothing on but West Wing!!! LOL

So I'm pretty sure that within the coming weeks, there will be a "The Law Firm" marathon where I can catch it.

Jim/Cyd, I'm interested in hearing if you guys knew one of the attorneys, Michael, is gay and whether he said anything to you guys. Also, how does he look in person? For that matter, how did Olivier look? Was he a flirt?

I would also be interested in the thought process behind why you guys decided to go this route instead of using the traditional court system. To me it was a big risk, using inexperienced attorneys, up against a bigshot, no ability of appeal, even though the law was on your side and they were trying to win on emotion. Maybe the exposure was worth it, but Bravo is not the highest exposure market, regardless of what time the show ran.

Rob, from Jim: We are glad we did the show since it forced the "real" lawsuit to be dismissed with prejudice on Sept. 14, 2004, and saved us thousands in legal fees. We never settled with Harbinson, as some had thought we had. We are certain we would have won a real trial but the financial cost would have been high and we could still be dealing with it. We would NEVER have agreed to do TV if Harbinson wasn't forced to dismiss his lawsuit.

[ October 11, 2005, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: Jim at Outsports ]

I'm sure Jim and Cyd will answer your other questions, but remember this series was originally supp. to air on NBC, and after the first few episodes aired on NBC to low ratings, they moved the show to Bravo (NBC and Bravo are both owned by the same corporation).

I can feel everyone's impatience! Soon, Jim & Cyd are gonna clear everything up for us. And Cyd, just wait til you see what the editors did with Jim's testimony. With your and my background in TV/film, you know that conflict = drama. And that the stakes must be raised high in order for people to remain interested. So, they made it look like Outsports was gonna lose, especially with Jim's testimony. Can't wait to hear your side of it.

BTW, with so many of us taping it, maybe we can just mail copies (VHS/DVD) to those who missed it. What do ya'll think? (I only got the last half of it taped.) wink

I'm sure we missed out on hopefully more compelling arguements from both sides, which were shelved in order to show more emotional ringers like Matthew Shepard and celebrities (Gary Hall Jr., very supportive of gay sports, appeared at IGLA 2004). The case would have been decided more on the First Amendment priciples in a real court room, but that makes for less entertaining television. Just as if someone is on the stand for 2 hours and takes 3 sips of water, the 2 min he is shown on tv can seem like he was a sweaty, nervous mess, guzzling water. You guys did great, congrats on the win! Always good to get a victory!

You know, Gary Hall is a "tall drink of water" as Aileen said. He looked amazing coming out of the water in a Speedo. Thank you "The Law Firm" producers for adding that non-essential set up scene! Ha!

Okay, let's go through this again...NBC dumped it from their prime time schedule on to Bravo after two episodes because of abysmal ratings. Bravo aired it for a few weeks at 8 pm Tuesdays and them bounced it to Saturdays at noon. What kind of show airs on Saturdays at noon if people really want to see it? It was a flop. A bomb. A ratings disaster. It's not even a cult classic. I doubt it will even be put out on DVD like some poorly rated shows have been in recent years. It's gone for good. If you missed it, the only way you'll see it is if someone has a recording that they can forward to you. Sorry.

[ October 11, 2005, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]

I finally saw it with Cyd and we agreed the editing was horrible and incredibly distortive, designed to make to heighten the drama. I felt I was made to look like a shifty-eyed dork on the stand, which is not what occurred in my 2 hours of testimony. I was nervous but was professional and calm throughout. They left tons of stuff out:

--Feiger quotes a part of the LA Marathon story. "Hot Santa Ana Winds Blowing in From the North, we were born to ride" as if it was sexual. They deleted my comeback that it was from the song "I Love LA," which celebrates LA, just as the LA Marathon celebrated the diversity of LA and that the song is iconic and extremely well-known. The jury giggled when Feiger brought that up.

--They never showed this absurd sequence where Feiger showed an Outsports promo pic that has Cyd taking a center snap from me. Feiger said it was a sexual pose since my hands were near Cyd's butt. I had to explain it was a standard football shot seen on trading cards everywhere.

--A producer told us that while watching the jury deliberate, they focused on the fact we had a legit credential and it was a public event on public property and we were a news org. That made a huge impression but none of that was shown.

--I did not drink 3 gallons of water. I would have exploded.

--I think my edit was designed to bolster Black's contention I was a bad witness. He did not sit through my testimony in the courtroom and doubt he was in the control room the entire time. I think he had to find a reason to criticize Michael. Michael, of course, defended me and he did sit through every word as did the jury.

--They skipped the part where I explained the variety of images on Outsports and that no reasonable person would assume everyone was gay. I pointed to picture of NFL and MLB players and of Olympians.

--Cyd thinks they inserted dramatic pauses prior to my answers to seem as if I was hesitant.

--They also did a disservice to Aileen, who should not have been dismissed, truncating her cross of some witnesses and ignoring others. She was the one who got the ex-GF to lie on the stand. In contrast, Olivier was not nearly as effective. Again, the edit was made to justify the decision.

Overall, the show was a big disappointment in conveying what had been a much more compelling and interesting case. But then again, what do you expect from producers whose credits include "Blind Date?"

We are glad we did the show since it forced the "real" lawsuit to be dismissed with prejudice on Sept. 14, 2004, and saved us thousands in legal fees. We never settled with Harbinson, as some had thought we had. There was a principle at stake here.

The show was filmed Sept. 10-12, 2004, and was to be shown on NBC that Oct. Then in Jan. Then in April. Then finally in July, where it lasted 2 weeks before being cancelled and shoved to Bravo, which started it on Tuesdays and shifted it to Sat. at noon, TV's graveyard.

I will think twice about ever doing TV (save for simple interviews) where I did not have some sort of creative control. But it served its purpose in stopping an absurd lawsuit that threatened our existence. We can't thank all of you enough for your moral and financial support.

Feel free to ask anything else.

And I hope I run into Roy Black one of these days. Then he'll see a hostile witness. wink

[ October 11, 2005, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Jim at Outsports ]

Jim, thanks for that summation. It clarifies so many issues. A few other questions:

- Were you and Cyd aware Mike was gay? Did he share that with you?

- Did Cyd testify at all, or just you?

- Was it tense being so physically close to Harbinson during the taping? Did he ever say anything to you or Cyd?

- Have there been ancillary positives to this? Is the site generating more traffic, etc. since Saturday?

- Why did you tell Aileen you liked her shoes? I have to admit it made me wince - just seemed it would fit so many people's stereotypes.

Were you and Cyd aware Mike was gay? Did he share that with you?

He did not share that with us, but a producer told us the last day after we were done. Mike lives in LA and placed a full-page ad for his services in a local gay paper.

- Did Cyd testify at all, or just you?

Just me. Not sure why.

- Was it tense being so physically close to Harbinson during the taping? Did he ever say anything to you or Cyd?

Not tense with him. We never said one word to him or ever got to within a few yards.

- Have there been ancillary positives to this? Is the site generating more traffic, etc. since Saturday?

No more traffic. Bravo dumped it. Had it aired on NBC it would have meant something more.

- Why did you tell Aileen you liked her shoes? I have to admit it made me wince - just seemed it would fit so many people's stereotypes.

Didn't see it as stereotypical. They were very flashy and hard to miss though the cameraman never focused on them.

The concept of the show was great but they totally whiffed in what they showed. We loved all 3 attys. for us and they were all nothing but cool.

They did. They absolutely did. Just more proof that reality TV is disgraceful. Listen to me, everyone! Never go on a reality TV show! Stop watching reality TV! Reality TV is destroying our world!!!!!

Okay, that last sentence might be a little bit of an exaggeration... wink

Was it brought up as to how the plaintiff found out his picture was on this site to begin with?

Just to give you another example of how the entertainment media can distort reality, a couple of years ago I was interviewed by a Detroit radio station morning show (typical morning shock-jocks) after they heard about our gay hockey team here in Denver kicking all the straight teams' asses in the biggest adult hockey league in the country.

Having worked in radio and written comedy for a morning show, I was well aware ahead of time what they would do in editing and had no illusions about how they would milk it for laughs at my expense. I did the best I could to word my half of the converation to foil the editor. [Note: many if not most local radio "live" phone bits are actually pre-recorded, even though they deliberately mislead the audience into thinking otherwise.]

Anyway, off mic, these two DJs were actually nice and impressed with the team's accomplishments. But on mic, they did everything possible to distort our story. They kept saying it was a gay hockey league because it played into all of their scripted jokes (which they tried to make come off as spontaneous.) I repeated numerous times that it's a mainstream league, that we were beating all straight teams, finished the season undefeated, won two championships, had a major corporate sponsor (Coors), etc. But they edited all of that out. Whenver they made one of their expected jokes about "being in the crease," and action in the lockerroom, etc., their editor took out most of my response, creating the impression that I was on the line either seething or humiliated or both. But I'm still glad I did it because of the exposure for gay hockey.

Yes. Chris H. remembered Brent telling him that he worked for Outsports. When he got home he checked Outsports and saw his picture. Did he then write us and ask us to remove it (which we would have)? No, he proceeded to TELL all his friends and family that he was on this gay Website, then said their knowledge caused him pain and suffering!

Also, the judge and I spoke after the verdict and he said he had never heard of Outsports before. He called us "heroes" for what we do and praised my testimony, which makes the edit that much more galling. :mad:

[ October 11, 2005, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: Jim at Outsports ]

LOL! Wow, that's hillarious. I can't believe he would go around telling people that and then sue for mental anguish. But, it was inevitable wasn't it? I'm sure Outsports is the first thing people read in the morning in that town.

That's the exact impression I came away with based even on the edited version that was shown. Olivier was cute but hopeless. Bravo had its a gay blonde moment.

I watched this on Saturday and I veered between being appalled at how Jim was portrayed and pissed off at the obvious editing trickery. I must say, Jim did a GREAT job of not telling any of his friends for 15 months anything more than the basic outlines of what happened (they came to his house to film etc.). I did know that he was on the stand for 2 hours and when I saw that boiled down to 5 minutes I got all Gollum "Tricksy! Tricksy are the editors!". I laughed about the water thing because when we go out to dinner, I'll go through a pitcher of water during the course of the meal and his initial glass might be empty at the end of the meal. That's one hint I knew there was something askew.

I know from doing a frame-by-frame of The Amazing Race for recaps a few years ago how much editing is a part of these things. I'd see lips moving that weren't matched to what was heard, things done out of sequence because clothes were different etc. There's a cliched shot on reality shows: just before they cut to commercials, when someone is being made to look like a fool, they'll slow the footage down on a shot of the person grimacing or something and add dramatic music. Sure enough, that kind of shot was there and I just laughed. It was clear to me that the had a storyline: big shot lawyer Fieger defends the poor slandered Harbinson (who looked awful) and makes the guy from the website look like a maroon. That's their story line and they were going to get it no matter what.

Why didn't they show the jury deliberations during any of the episodes I watched? There's got to be some drama in that, but like most things on this show, they blew it. I guess if they ran the show as "reality", the fact that Outsports had an ironclad case wouldn't have been dramatic enough, so they had to resort to editing.

Good riddance to an awful show.

Jim, some questions (I haven't seen the show so my questions might seem dumb):

- How did your case become involved with this show in the first place? Did you or Cyd contact the producers, or did they contact you?
- Why do you think Chris Harbison agreed to going on the show... it seemed to be a lose-lose situation for him (in a real trial he may have won damages ($), but in a TV trial he becomes exposed as a homophobe (and maybe closet case)).
- Were the judge and jury in this show "real?" And was a real courtroom used, or a 'TV courtroom?' (And did the 'trial' take place in N.C.?)
- Did the producers know that Michael was gay before the trial? It seemed like a well-timed bit of drama to have him out himself just before giving an impassioned closing argument.

I am right there with Jim. The editing really changed what happened. Lots of stuff was left out. They clearly edited it to support what Roy Black's decision was. Too bad.

- How did your case become involved with this show in the first place? Did you or Cyd contact the producers, or did they contact you?

We got a call out of the blue. A story about the suit ran in a Raleigh, NC, paper, was read by a local anchor whose brother worked on the Law Firm and knew they needed a case. NBC then contacted us. It was all an amazing set of circumstances.


- Why do you think Chris Harbison agreed to going on the show... it seemed to be a lose-lose situation for him (in a real trial he may have won damages ($), but in a TV trial he becomes exposed as a homophobe (and maybe closet case)).

We have no idea. He spoke with the producers separately.

- Were the judge and jury in this show "real?" And was a real courtroom used, or a 'TV courtroom?' (And did the 'trial' take place in N.C.?)

Courtroom was the "Boston Legal" set in the San Fernando Valley. Judge real but retired. Jury real people (not actors) but only 6 sted 12. It was weird that they had cameras in the jury room but never showed deliberations in any episode. It would have been good to see what arguments swayed the jurors, but then again this post-production team wasn't very good.

- Did the producers know that Michael was gay before the trial? It seemed like a well-timed bit of drama to have him out himself just before giving an impassioned closing argument.

I was told he came out sometime during the show's taping but I don't know when.

[ October 12, 2005, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: Jim at Outsports ]

Happy to hear Outsports won. Congratulations. I had full faith.

I missed the show due to sacrificing six hours of my life to the 18-inning Astros/Braves disaster ... six long hours that I will never get back ... but I am thrilled for Outsports just the same

Our show aired Saturday, the 18-innings on Sunday.

Oh.
Really?

The long weekend threw me off.

Then I just forgot to watch you. Still just as happy as a pig in mud for ya!

G4G: The Astros-Braves was a much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much better show, no matter what you think of the outcome of either the game or the lawsuit. wink

Ah yes, but the Outsports "trial" was edited. I would have given anything to skip from the 8th to the 18th inning of that stupid baseball game. I honestly was pissed in the 9th - except at cutie Brad Ausmus, because even though he tied it with that homer, he's just too adorable to be mad at - but by the time it got to the fifth and sixth hour ... I just was ready to move on with my life!

I was amazed at how nice (if less than competent) all three lawyer/competitors came off. Usually the people on these competition reality shows seem to be fame-whoring sharks who haven't an ounce of respect for each other or anyone else. Great that all of them supported each other when asked who should be dismissed.

On a shallower note: Cyd, if the camera really does add 10 pounds, you need to start wolfing down some cheeseburgers stat! I was worried by how gaunt you appeared on TV.

FYI, Michael the gay atty. who argued our closing wound up winning the competition. I had a feeling. He placed full-page ads in an LA gay paper in July (before the show aired on NBC). They didn't mention the show but I got a sense he was trying to raise his profile.

Jim: Did Feiger use much other Outsports content (pictures, articles, discussion board posts) as evidence? Did he try but it was not allowed by the judge? I was thinking that some of these insipidly baseless speculation posts/threads might have strengthened hsi case a bit. I don't think it would have tipped the scales, but it might have helped his side out a bit.

Considering what a failure this show was in the ratings, I wonder how much business Michael will be able to drum up...outside of grateful Outsporters, that is.

Not to worry. Cyd looks quite healthy in person. wink

I keep checking my Bravo listings to see when it will be repeated, but it seems like the Network went to West Wing/L & O: CI/Infomerical programming LOL