I just stumbled upon this website which looks pretty cool.


http://www.straightacting.com

I found that a while back and took the quiz and ended up as a 2. At the time I thought it was funny, but I have since gotten a little frustrated with the whole straight-acting idea. I have sex with men, therefore that's one big area in which I am not straight-acting. Ironically, it's probably the only question that need be asked.

I'm masculine as are most of the guys here. That might be confused with "straight". However I don't act like I want to go to bed with a female, thus I don't have to "act". I act when I am on stage or in front of a camera.

I'm also a member of that site. It's really cool; similar crowd on there and a great way to post anything that floats in your mind.

I also scored a 2 on the test..

The quiz (and the website itself) shows a great sense of humor, which most of the politically correct queens who send them hate mail seem to lack.

Personally, I never use the term "straight-acting", I say "masculine" which pisses the queens off just as much if not more. The worst thing you can say to an effeminate gay man is "you're not my type".

[quote]Originally posted by RGMike:
I say "masculine" which pisses the queens off just as much if not more.

---

I hear that, RG.

Lots of queens seem to think a guy's being phony if he's not girling up the place. If I don't have a problem with them being nelly, why should they have a problem with me being masculine?

I also scored a two. Bet I would have gotten a one if not for my damned weakness for showtunes. Curse this OGT!

[quote]Originally posted by Alton:
If I don't have a problem with them being nelly, why should they have a problem with me being masculine?

---

Agreed!!! I get that "Well I never!" look any time I talk rock 'n' roll in certain circles. Whatever.

I scored a 1, so I guess I'm the "winner" so far. Oddly enough, so did my job (I'm a corporate lawyer, not a construction worker!) I'm afraid to take the test for my cats.
Pretty funny stuff.

[ December 13, 2002: Message edited by: quentinc ]

I scored a 5 two years ago, but since then I've bought the Can't Stop the Music DVD and have been digging Donna Summer a helluva lot more.

Should I be retested?

There's no such thing as straight-acting, aside from enjoying pussy and related orifices / organs of the female sex.

Okay I probably got the highest score. I got a seven, 7, which they say is very feminine. Now I'm gonna have to adamantly disagree with that...Yes I can change my oil and a flat tire, but why can't I look good doing it. Yes I drink beer and play pool, but I also dance with my arms over my head if the song calls for it. Sure I decorate my house for the holidays and I enjoy both football and figure skating. Am I social, yes, maybe I should take it as a compliment. Yesterday my coworker said to me, When did you know you were gay, because you seem very comfortable with it. You're open, honest, and not ashamed. thank you, with no snaps...but a grunt and a belch...is that straight acting?

allen

Thanks for starting this topic. It reminded me of my favorite quote on this subject by the mother of us all, Harvey Fierstein:

"How do you criticize Ellen for doing a show that's too gay? When all I see on television is heterosexuals! There's so much self- loathing in our community that it is absolutely disgusting. What do you need to do to prove how much self-loathing there is? Just pick up any newspaper that has personal ads in it and look at how many say, 'No Fats, No Femmes, Straight-Acting Seeking Same, In the Closet, Do Not Believe in the Gay Lifestyle.' Do you ever see an ad for a heterosexual saying,'Please Don't Act Straight?' What kind of f**king shit is that?"

I scored a 6, by the way and that is a total crock. I am a masculine gay man. Not "straight-acting" but masculine. In the words of Koko Taylor, "I can love you like a woman, or fight you like a man."

Amen, Niner_Fan.

Here is what I got...
Your score is 83
LEVEL 5 -- SOMEWHAT FEMININE
Your Mom already knows. Smart girls in the office already know that you like to sleep with men. Your straight acting traits are few and far between as your feminine traits start to surface. You tend to be a real sensitive guy that gets along great with the female posse at work.

To me, like Harvey, "straight acting" = closet case.

I know more about sports than 98% of straight men, but.....I know more about opera than 99.9% of gay men. [flapping hands in air, voice goes up 10 octaves] Oh, what am I? Where do I fit on the quiz?

Speaking of Harvey Fierstein... was watching In the Life last night (great profile on Billy Jean King) and Harvey did a wonderful opinion piece on "positive/negative" gay role models. He says the positive role models have actually been bad for us... and that we should have more negative role models. To explain: he was talking about the issue of how the gay community (perhaps benignly) has portrayed HIV/AIDS in such a positive light (HIV-positive models in AIDS drug ads are always so hot and beefy) that young people may be getting the wrong message--and thus the complacency over AIDS. I don't want to say more in case I mis-state his commentary.... but it was very insightful piece, and I think it's available on the In the Life website.

--------

Re: the straight-acting website and "issue"

I think the problem is that some people act as if "straight-acting" makes them better than other people. It doesn't. If you do it for fun, fine. But scoring high or low on that test doesn't make you any better or worse than anyone else.

Hmmm, I scored a 43 which puts me at Level 3. I don't dress up for Halloween, I have never dressed in drag, I loath Figure Skating, I'm not into show tunes. Does this mean I lose my Pink Card???

I know how to change my car's oil, belts, plugs, etc (my Mom taught me, because my dad was kinda lazy), I can use a chain saw, I have power tools at home (saws, drills, etc), I play pool and darts when I go out to a bar, I'm thinking about taking a welding class, I've played football and soccer, .

Must be part of the reason my Husband loves me!! wink

I got a 4.

When I read in profiles that someone is str8-acting, I find it amusing. What would anyone want to be called that? It sounds so childish and redundant. And a little narrow minded as well. Probably the only str8 thing about them is their ... well ... .

I prefer masculine over str8-acting anyday.

MY SCORE: 64
LEVEL 4--A few people might suspect that you might not be a heterosexual. No one knows for sure, but there are rumors about what you're doing on the weekends. Most of your traits are straight acting but a few traits you have are causing people to wonder, but nothing is so apparent that anyone is sure enough to bring it up.

YEP, That would be right on target! :cool:

I'm level 6, mostly feminine. Does that mean I'm not allowed on the Outsports board??

I don't really have a problem with the words "straight-acting" although I agree with everyone else that masculine is preferred. But like everything else in the world, it takes all kinds!

For me, if I was attracted to someone feminine, I might as well date women. I like men because they're rugged and strong, or we pretend to be while we're at the gym.

I have a friend who said he laughs everytime he reads the term "straight-acting" in a personal ad. His response: "Yeah, you look really straight with my dick in your mouth!"

I got a 2. Of course when my partner saw that I got a 2, he laughed, until I explained to him that yes, I actually own 2 chainsaw's and know how to use them, and enjoy fishing, (he calls going fishing purgatory)and like the cottage best when the phone and TV don't work.

After a while, he said that I'm not gay. He said that I'm a Lesbian.

Except, of course, for the clippings hanging on my cubicle wall (mostly from Outsports and The Advocate, including the Esera cover) and the rainbow flag and other paraphernalia around the cube. And the triangle on my car. So people pretty much know, and they can ask if they want. I'll tell. :cool:

As I told the would-be boyfriend of the female roommate of a guy I was seeing (don't think about that too hard) when we went to see his band play, "Just because I dance to Cher doesn't mean that's all I listen to."

I'm a guy who likes guys. Sexually and otherwise. (Unless they're jerks, but I don't think that's the question.) So hey, I'm gay. Silly quiz.

I'm assuming that most gay/lesbians believe that sexual orientation is an inherited trait.

The behavior that accompanies any given sexual orientation is learned. "Straight-acting" or "nelly-queen effeminate" behavior is nothing more than socialization. How gays/lesbians behave is a matter of choice and/or enculturation.

If Harvey Fierstein believes himself to be masculine, then he is assuming that his "enculturation" is pre-eminent. (Sometimes this comes across as righteousness. This posturing is nothing more than socio-sexual fascism.) To wit, many gay men (including myself) find him to be incredibly effeminate. And this is the point.

Masculinity and femininity are behaviors. Not sexual orientations. Why would any gay man object to another gay man's "behavioral" preference? Is it because there is a strong desire for some gay men to create a code of "social-sexual orthodoxy"?

Mr. Fierstein seems to be unable to accomodate any definition of "gay man" outside his cultural sensibility. For someone who has been so eloquent in helping others to transcend the differences between the gay and straight world, I find him to be surprisingly short-sighted when it comes to the differences within the gay community.

IMHO, gays and lesbians should work hard to articulate the difference between identity and behavior. And we should work even harder at respecting others as they carve out their own identities.

Down with sexual fascism in all forms.

Sounds like you got your panties in a wad for nothing. The Harvey quotations is INSIDE the quotation marks. The rest is MY contribution to the discussion. Look again.

oops. I meant that the quotation is INSIDE...singular. I teach English grammar so I could not let that one slip.

level 2 here...

Someone please get Bill laid already. The grumpy old fart is putting another damper on a tongue-in-cheek topic here. wink

Bill, you REALLY ought to have Dr. Phil help you with that.

Trojan, so this is where you've been!

I'm a regular on that site and I think too many people get all caught up in the "-acting" part of the phrase. (Even on that site it's an issue...)

I don't see what the big deal is: to me it does not meant that someone is putting forth some false persona or hiding his gayness, it's just another way of saying masculine.

IMHO-Should be stated as "masculine" but I think people mean to say" If you refer to men as "she" or "girl" then don't call me." wink

[ November 28, 2003, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: copman ]

Speaking of this, have you all checked out this site for Regular Masculine Guys ? Interesting. What do you think?

That's not bad at all. They don't put down fems, which a lot of these straight-acting types do. But I'd rather have my eyes poked out with a sharp stick than do anything involved with cars! Do they have trips to the San Francisco Opera?

Thanks for the plug, CowboysFan... that's my site, or I should say my group's site; I wrote most of the copy. We've been around for 7 years. Essentially we're a group for guys who have interests beyond "mainstream gay culture" (i.e. camp, drag, and Madonna). We like to think we're for guys who "think outside the gay box". You should come check us out.

I got a 4. whatever that means....

I don't go around in a dress. But I assume wherever I am that everyone knows I'm gay.

and yes. I am attracted to masculine men. especially handsome masculine men with great booties. so does that make me more or less "straight acting"? wink

I got a 33 -- Level 2, Very Straight Acting. Most can't pick me out, I think, but then again, I'm often clueless to guys who are cruising me, so that might work both ways.

Like Aquaman & Trojan (Hey Guy's!) I'm a regular poster on the StraightActing site. I'm also a friend of the webmaster.

If anyone takes the time to read the sites link (what does straightacting mean?) they'd see that its all meant to be tongue and cheek, especially the test....its funny and its based on stereotypes that gay men place on GAY MEN.

I LOATHE the term straight-acting. I hate the term "normal acting" too. What the hell is normal anyway?

I'd say 98% of the regular posters on the site understand that the site name, the test and other areas of the site are meant to be humorous and not to be taken seriously.

Now and then a guy will join the message board that starts barking how straight acting he is and how he dislikes fem guys, etc....and generally that person is torn a new hole and rode out on a rail.

Posters that stick around and read the topics and threads will learn that the regulars include masculine guys, guys that THINK they are masculine, some self-proclaimed major femmes, there is also a FTM transexual and a MTF trans that participate....all part of a big family of really nice guys.

...but then there is that 2%...ugh.

NJ

I have never had any interest in taking these "straight acting tests". If you are insecure enough to take a test you are probably NOT straight acting, no matter what the test results might say. Whenever I see people proudly proclaiming their "straight acting" test score I usually move on. I rate people by their actions and who they are, not test results.

Well I agree, I guess thats my point..the tests results are not to be taken seriously and anyone who takes it and thinks that it is, is seriously mistaken.

NJ

Hey guys, I am a proud member of Straightacting.com and Outsports too! I think Nathan's post explained the site very well! If the people who criticize the site would only go there and actually read the posts, I think they would understand it a little better. Hell, I have been to some sites who think that Outsports is a bunch of guys who want to deny their gayness!! I guess they don't read the posts on 'hunky athletes' here!! We are all gay whether we are "butch", "fem", "straight-acting", "nelly", or whatever term people use. There are enough people in this country who dislike us because of their own personal prejudices, we should not contribute to the hatred towards each other!

What surprises me these days is the glorification of the straight man by gay men. Hell, for the most part these same guys that gay men glorify were our tormentors (the jocks and the "he-men)when we were younger...now all the sudden, they're our idols? Huh?

NJ

I get between a 2 and a 3. I just re-took it for the first time in a long time and I got a 41.

The whole point of this exercise should be to have fun with it. If you're a nelly queen, so be it. If you're "straight acting" enough to fool anyone, so be it. Who gives a rat's tail?

Keep in mind that there are gay men who were not tormented by jocks in school. Some of us actually played sports in school, and still do.

It was a generalization, I realize not all jock types tease and torment other kids when they are younger and in school, but it happens quite frequently.

I too played sports in High School and didn't participate in the teasing of other kids, but I saw it happen on a daily basis, and the worst thing anyone could be called was a "fag".

The question is, were you out and played sports in High School? Being "one of the boys" is an entirely different thing. Your cool as long as you hide it.

NJ

High school does not bring comfortable memories for me. I had to go through daily harrassment from the guys since I was sensitive and I was such a skinny guy. I couldn't gain weight to save my soul!!

Everyday, I was called, "fag" and I thought that I was just like them. Looking back, I feel horrible for that guy I use to be. I never wanted to get into trouble and tell what happened to me. My parents still don't know everything that happened to me.

No wonder I am pretty sensitive still to things. Crazy ... anyway ...

I think alot of gay men and women can relate to your experience as a kid Allen. I'm not a big guy, never have been but I was always a bit of a fighter...I use to get called some stuff too even though I ran track and was 1st baseman on my HS baseball team, and a good one at that. My nickname, even to my "friends" was "Pantyhose", more because I never wanted to get in trouble or do things mischevious, but it was farely well known that I was "light in the loafers" as I believe I was referred to more then once.

Once I left HS, I never looked back...

I don't really understand why when a professional athelete makes some sort of homophobic comment, so many gay men are shocked...what the hell do they expect? For the most part (again, generalizing here) its bred into them from an early age....I can still here it today when I go watch my nephews play ball in little league...."What are ya, a Sissy? Run toward the ball!"

I have gay buds that salivate over Rocker (still!) yet, when I say to them...."You realize this guy would try to beat you to a pulp if given the chance", they look at me and say...."I know, but he is sooooo hot and I hear he is hung!"

I don't get it, I don't want to.

NJ

[ February 16, 2004, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: NathanJones ]

I see the site and the test as being counter humor to camp. It doesn’t surprise me in anyway that gay groups form that try to bring men together that are “without affectation”. (Is that better or worse than straight-acting or masculine?) For the guys who don’t buy into changing their personalities and tastes simply because they enjoy M2M sex it can become irritating to hear they should be sent to “gay college”.

Why is it that 90 some percent of the gay male characters on media are identifiably gay before their sexuality is revealed. Compare that to all the beautiful lipstick lesbians characters and you will understand my point.

Yes, camping can be entertaining but it is not the only way to present gay men in entertainment. Why can’t we have a few hunky gay or bisexual male heroes? The few characters that have been portrayed as heroes are always guys fighting back from being victims. But you always get the feeling they are angry, oppressed and stand little chance of winning. Again that is an entertaining story but it is not the only gay male story out there.

Almost as rare is the cool straight male, who just doesn’t care if his friend is gay. The Europeans portray nearly all their straight men in this manner but we have a harder time doing it here in the states. European films will even go as far as to showing straight men flirting with gay men.

Is it because what I am asking (that gay men are not all affected and straight men are not all homophobic) does not correspond to reality? It is certainly a good portrayal of my experience in life. I have had numerous straight male friends that were not the least bit bothered by my sexuality. The same holds true of the male family members, (father and brother). As for myself, and my gay friends, sure we have all faced some shit, somewhere, for being gay, but none of us feel like victims.

Let’s look at the numbers for a moment. If you will allow me to include all men who have a significant erotic response to other men we are probably talking about at least 15% to 20% of the adult male population. (I use to think the percentage it was lower until a number of heterosexuals confessed their curiosities and experience with gay encounters.) My guess is that fewer than 3% of the male population would have trouble at least “passing as straight”. Not that we should be trying to “pass as straight” but there is nothing wrong with being ourselves at the risk of being presumed to be heterosexual.

We can’t just blame straight people for the myopic gay male image. I have been accused of being homophobic for criticizing the gay ghetto scene. But I’m not a big proponent of segregation or conformity. I long for the day when having same sex desires is not perceived as being a “radical special interest group”. Songwriter Katie Curtis said it best:

I’m not being radical when I kiss you
And I don’t love you just to make a point

So in conclusion I’ll say that as long as there are people (gay and straight) shoving down our throats what “being gay is”, there will be guys who feel the need to explain what it is not. I guess we just have to laugh at it all.

Agreed with all you say Thom...although I have a hard time comprehending why any "straight" man would want to flirt with a gay man. :confused: Unless its an ego thing?

I've never seen myself as a victim and I get really tired of hearing excuses why guys are not out for fear of this, that and the other thing....I also think that the vast majority of gay men and women are just like the rest of the population when it comes to mannerisms....its only so many of them are closted that the only ones that get any exposure (for the most part) are the extremes.

I was reading the other day a film review of some lame movie (I can't recall the name of it, but its got some super-model turned actress in it). The plot involved a bad-azz cop who intimidates this couple, but they soon find out that he is gay....apparently the gist of this "exposure" was his "macho-self" was only and act, obviously since he's gay, hes not much of a man.

Thats the kind of message the general public will read into that....

I also believe that gay's in entertainment are this era's Amo's and Andy's. At least in front of the camera. We have a long way to go.

Do I want "respect" from straight folks because I'm gay? Hell no. Do I want "acceptance"? Hell no. Tolerance? I'll take.

To be on subject here, I guess my entire outlook on the "straight-acting" thing is people should be who they are, I respect that. But if your gonna hide in the closet and complain about all the femmes in the world "ruining it" for you...well, then your the coward. (Not you Thom...or anyone else on here....but you get my point, I hope).

I'm attracted to masculine men, but I'm NOT attracted to straight men. Big difference.

NJ

[ February 16, 2004, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: NathanJones ]

I would be surprised by the same, except I've had straight guys flirt with me. I think it's either an ego boost for them if another guy finds them attractive or a way of letting me know he's straight but not narrow.

Here's where I differ. Tolerance implies a resigned acceptance of something you find distasteful. I want the whole hog: Acceptance, respect, whatever you want to call it. I refuse to sell myself short.

I do. I agree with exactly this part of your argument. I only disagree with what I've pointed out.

I agree with all of the comments that were previously posted.

It is good to know that other people got picked on in high school because they weren't deemed masucline enough by their male peers.

After a while, I started butching myself up and doing more things that the more "masculine" guys did. I think that this happens a lot amongst guys that don't feel adequate and manly enough, and once you feel that you have become "butch", it is hard to associate yourself with effeminate men.

Hey John, I don't want you take this as a personal attack, its just a point, I'm trying to get through to other guys out there....but if you had to start "butching" yourself up, because you didn't feel adequate or manly, then your missing my point.

No one should have to change their personality/mannerisms in order to obtain the acceptance of others or to feel more "manly". That's the worst lesson as an adult, I could offer a gay youth coming of age....its the equivalent of saying...."Hey Sissy-boy, be a man, do this and you'll grow hair on your balls!"

Masculinity is a subjective term as far as I'm concerned, and I'd rather be judged on my character, values & honesty before masculinity any day.

I feel really sorry for guys like Jeff Garcia, they are in Catch 22's...anything they say or do is gonna be perceived by one group or other as the "wrong thing" to say. Seems nobody really cares what kind of football player he is, its much more interesting to talk about his sexuality and his perceived "lack" of masculinity. He's ostracized by gay's and straight's and anytime he screws up on the field, its not due to his talent or lack of, its because he isn't really a "man".

We are definitely our own worst enemies.

NJ

[ February 16, 2004, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: NathanJones ]