[quote]Originally posted by Aznbutch:
I do believe there are some specifically cultural differences in the diaspora between East and West.

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Very, very interesting post Aznbutch. Your analysis seems right on the money. As someone working in HIV education I suspect you are aware of the proliferation of HIV infection that is suspected in China, though the extent is not yet very well measured or even fully acknowledged.

Though the primary route of transmission is asexual (contaminated equipment for drawing blood), the reticence about confronting the growing epidemic would seem to be very much related to the Confucian influence you describe.

It is terribly unfortunate that they do not realize that silence about the infection hurts the group more than confronting it openly would.

With China's long history and experience with treating illness through non-traditional methods they could possibly make a greater contribution to treatments for HIV (and other diseases) if these methods were studied more in a scientific manner by the Chinese.

One thing I read about Chinese medicine that has always impressed me is that the physician would pay the patient if the patient was not cured(another Confucian principle?). Couldn't imagine that here but it's an interesting concept.

Sorry about going off-topic again.

Turkey seems to be (deliberately) exporting more Turks to U.S. universities - hence, more Turks to date.

Fantasizing about living San Diego or San Francisco: there would be people from all cultures to choose from.....

Fascinating article about race in the New York Times this morning:

Gene Study Identifies 5 Main Human Populations

I always thought race was a mostly irrelevant and scientifically undefinable quantity but something that virtually screams to be studied. This study seems to contradict the former and strongly support the later. It begins with:

[quote]Scientists studying the DNA of 52 human groups from around the world have concluded that people belong to five principal groups corresponding to the major geographical regions of the world: Africa, Europe, Asia, Melanesia and the Americas.

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This is one of the most thought-provoking studies in genetics that I have encountered. That the study of genetics should be applied to race is inevitable and potentially very useful.

IMO it more than justifies the risk of the social misuse of the knowledge at this point in history.

[ December 20, 2002: Message edited by: sportinlife ]

What's up with your obsession with Turkey, Bluebird?

I am new to this site and I must say that I am very pleased with what I found. I am extremely happy to have found a forum where I can discuss issues openly. Interacial dating in the gay community just happens to be a topic I find myself discussing and more times than not im called a racist because of my views.

Plain and simple, I do not find caucasion men attractive. Of course there are men like Brad Pitt who are certainly not ugly, I am more attracted to my brothas. Men like Ving Rhames, LL Cool J, Morris Chestnut and Michael Jai White. My attraction is not based on just physical things but more so the fact that another black man can relate to me and my lifes issues in ways a man of another race cannot. Man to man relationships are hard enough without adding on other stresses of race.

Yes, I have friends of every color but I am often pursued by white man with the comman phrases " I just love black men " , I caould take care of a man like you " " I bet your Hung " as if there is no tpther reason to talk to a black man other than the fact that he is black. And then there are the brothas that date whites exclusively who seem to have an attitude with any other black man in the room. I just dont get.

To each his own, but make mine black

[quote]Originally posted by YellaDawg:


Exactly!

When Black Self-Hate meets White Privilege, the two make such a lovely couple.

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I had that same problem when I was relocating to Las Vegas. Brothas even got an attitude when I would try to strike up general conversation as if I were breaking somekind of law. It got so bad that after a few months I moved back to philadelphia.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CPT_Doom:
[was assumed by many, white, gay friends that I was a)only into "chocolate" or only into guys w/ big dicks, and we all know about black guys (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).

How could you ruin such an insightful post with such a shallow and typical statement. statements like that are the reason I could never believe that a white man would or could love me for me. Its all about the mandingo.

I think he was decrying exactly what you're talking about. He was annoyed that people make those shallow assumptions about others. I don't think he would ever say that given the fact that he was annoyed with the exact same perceptions of others.

[quote]Originally posted by E Z E:
What's up with your obsession with Turkey, Bluebird?

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I'm not obsessed with Turkey.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blk Bronco:
[QB][QUOTE]Originally posted by CPT_Doom:
[was assumed by many, white, gay friends that I was a)only into "chocolate" or only into guys w/ big dicks, and we all know about black guys (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).


Let me be the first to say that not all black guys are big nor are all Asian guys are small.

[quote]Originally posted by jay original:
Curses!

Every black man I saw was in an interracial coupling and those who weren't didn't even give me a second glance while looking at the crusty, flavorless, elderly white men around me. I felt like shit. Funny, though I met my current boyfriend while in San Francisco. ]

[ December 08, 2002: Message edited by: Tarkus ]

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I'm in SF and I've notice so many guys of color in interracial relationships or whatever. Before I moved here 4 years ago, I dated only white guys. Of course, I'm from West Virginia and there aren't any people of color there. Slight exaggeration.

Once I moved to SF, I noticed that guys of color were attracted to me. I've dated a few guys of color since I broke up with my ex in May, mostly Asian. My current boyfriend is half anglo and half Filipino although he looks more Latino.

I guess that I do like guys who are physically different from myself. I'm about as white as you can get. I glow in the dark. That's how white I am. I'm thin and short. My boyfriend is stocky and a little bit taller than me. Physically, he's perfect for me.

Okay, I have no idea what point I was trying to make but I think it had something to do with the fact that everyone has their own taste in a partner/mate for whatever reason.

A new documentary on PBS shed some light on the whole Asian Submissiveness stereotype. The documentary recounts the arrival of Chinese into California in the mid-1800's. Employment opportunities fluctuated, but consistent thing was white men would not do "women's work." With the lack of actual women, the Chinese immigrants filled the opportunity and became cooks, laundymen, garders, and other servant class workers. This was the beginning of the stereotyping of Chinese (and by extention all Asians) as servile and submissive.

The Documentary is "Becoming American" on PBS this month in three 1.5 hour episodes.

Warning! My husband does not enjoy this documentary. It makes him feel bad since there is a healthy (and perhaps overdone) dose of 'evil white man' in this documentary.

There should be a religion based on this truth.

Of course it is not true for ALL, but does anyone see a pattern? How do sterotypes get started?

Asian people are generally smaller in stature than Europeans and Africans, so it's natural to assume that all parts of their bodies (hands, feet, breasts, penises) are generally smaller. This is a generalization.

But, having said that, this doesn't mean that all Gay Asian Males are submissive bottoms. THAT is the stereotype.

I think it's interesting that many of the responses to this post mentioned that many interracial relationships/encounters are based upon fetishes and fantasies. I have to say that I totally agree with that. I mean, when I first began to discover my own sexuality and eventually came out, I was pretty much soley attracted to guys who physically looked different from me.

For the most part, I'm ashamed to say, much of it was a concerted and conscious effort on my part to seek out only guys of another race/ethnicity. This was pretty much between the ages of 18-23 (much of my college years in the early 90's). I mean, in my eyes, there was just this sort of excitement and societal stigma attached to interracial sex, and for some reason I "got off" on that, figuratively and yes, literally. Yes, the contrast in the skin tones, the stigma, the historical relevance, all that is what would get my blood flowing.

Today, I've come to terms with this and accept this as part of me. I can't change it, and frankly, I don't want to. I still get turned on for the reasons stated above. However, now, I've began to expand my dating circles and horizons to include those of many races/ethnicities. I mean, all in all, A HOT MAN IS A HOT MAN, regardless of background. Sometimes, I'm in the mood for those HOT white guys, other times I prefer something a little darker(black, Latino, whatever.. it is all GOOD).

It's interesting that there are so many variations on what gay men find attractive about another guy. As mentioned above some guys focus primarily on the physical attributes of another guy. Whether that means they are looking for a guy of a different race, someone fatter, someone skinner, someone taller, someone shorter, or whatever. It seems like the rarest gay man of all is one who looks at the personality and attitude of a partner before anything else. I've been accused of having a 1950's mentality more times than I can count; but is there really anything wrong with wanting a man for who he is and not what he looks like? I'm not saying looks don't count; you have to be physically attracted to your partner; but whatever happened to the day when two guys were actually great friends before they became lovers? Or is this something that has been reserved for straight folks, or worse yet, straight folks who lived prior to 1960? With all the gay people who consider themselves liberal it surprises me that when it comes to dating so many could be downright prejudice about something that really should not matter at all: the color of your skin.

Choosing to date outside their circle could be a way for a gay person to distant his sexuality from other aspects of his life. There could be many reasons for that: discretion, sexual stimulation of secrecy, excitement about the new and different, etc. All tie in with the furtiveness of the sexual experience itself. Coming to terms with ones homosexuality often requires overcoming deeply held inhibitions in oneself and others. That may cause a willingness to overcome other inhibitions and biases as well. IMO both present the opportunity of growth.

I don't think datng or being in a relationship with someone outside of your race is a fetish. I think some people find people of a race other than their own to be attractive becasue it is different from themself.

Personally, I don't have a racial preference. I've dated men from many cultures and I can certainly understand how dating someone outside your race can prove to be interesting. For me though, I find that aside from the racial difference, we're pretty much the same. Similar in the sense that there are people in every race that you may get along with, and some that may not be compatable with your personality. So other than racial preferences, I look more for a personality match.

I can also say (from experience)that the stereotypes regarding size are completeely false. wink

Something similar has happened to many immigrants of one nationality or another when they first arrived. They were steered into jobs that citizens didn't want to do (if indeed they weren't imported for such jobs, like the Chinese railroad workers) and excluded from those that citizens wanted for themselves. If and when they saved enough money to go into business for themselves, they "chose" (took) businesses with the least barriers to entry (such as restaurants ... or, to use a more recent example, lawn care) ... and, in many cases, hired relatives or other immigrants from the same country, who either had trouble getting hired elsewhere or functioned better around other speakers of their own language. Then, if the first generation to grow up in the U.S. didn't assimilate to some degree, the second did. That pattern largely has continued.

That doesn't stop people from stereotyping those whose ancestors came from [insert name of country here] as [insert attribute here]. Everybody has stereotypes about somebody ... but even when they're based on "fact" (or on examples selectively chosen for their convenience), they can't fit every member of any group.

OK, you guys can wake up now. Back to the dating topic.