How horrible!
CNN Story

That woman has to be the biggest a**hole of all time. I mean, seriously, there are so many things wrong in that story that it's hard to pick out which is worse.

I will say this: I can think of three things that should have been spayed and neutered in that house, the two dogs and that woman.

That poor child.

let's see.... she's worried about the dogs so much that she locks her kid in the basement with a shovel and says "Don't come out". But then says that she didn't notice any dangerous behavior by the dogs? Come again????

I'm not sure what charge is more appropriate here...involuntary manslaughter, second-degree murder, injury and death to a child...

Actually, I know...we just have Rex attack the mother instead...give her a big ol' head injury...if she dies, I guess it was "her time to go"...

:mad: :mad: :mad:

No charges filed?

Nicky's "time to go"???

Put this lady in the "People Who Should be Shot Thread." Now.

This may sound extreme, but I do not believe pit bulls should ever be allowed in homes where there are persons under 18. Ever. If you've got a child, no pit bulls whatsoever.

In the Bay Area as you can imagine this has been a big story. A lot of details were not in CNN. These dogs were a massacre waiting to happen. The family was in process of moving and the house largely dismantled. It is very stressful to any domestic animal to have their home disturbed (I've moved with my cats so I know about this). Also the father who was their primary care-giver had already moved, so the dogs lost their "master". Dogs are hierarchical animals. They confer on their care-giver superior status. But they often consider children to be low on the totem pole, below them, and by the canine way of thinking that means children should act subordinate. Those who don't are put in their place dog style. Not a problem if it's a poodle. You whack the poodle and the child is not really hurt. And the dog learns that the lower status child has a high status protector. But take two large aggressive dogs in a stress situation and leave them with someone who they consider below them in hierarchy? Then add the fact that the dogs were not neutered, hence even more aggressive. If that was not enough, the female was in heat. The male was trying to mate with her. The mother speculated that Nicky interrupted a mating and the male, seeing him as a rival, would respond accordingly. Finally, when asked why she did not lock the dogs in the basement instead of the boy she said that there were a lot of clothes and other items in platic bags in the basement and she was afraid the dogs would damage them. She also blames the boy for not being obedient but does not seem to worry about obedience training for the dogs.
I would say at the very least child endangerment.

The mother has finally been charged with child endangerment.

CNN Story

Thank GOD!

They should spay her too.

I think they should coat her in hamburger grease and let the other dog have a try at her if they haven't put it to sleep, yet.

Meanwhile, in nearby Santa Rosa, an 8 year old girl was playing in her backyard when the neighbors' pit bull came over the fence and grabbed her by the face. The girl's mother and two neighborhood men heard her screams and came running. The men hit the dog with a pool cue and crowbar and their fists (we don't always have the best weapons ready) but it would not let go. Finally the two men together were able to pry its mouth open to release the girl. They forced the dog into a garage but it got out and attacked the mother. The mother was not too badly bitten, comparatively, but the little girl is still in the hospital and her face will be badly scarred. The neighbors of course talked about what a nice friendly dog it is and tried to stop officers from taking it away.
Oh yes, the dog was not neutered. And these "nice responsible" people did not chain or neuter their "nice friendly" dog.
Good God, I get annoyed when people have a mellow animal and don't neuter him/her because an intact animal will get aggressive. When it's already an agressive animal like a pit bull that is asking for trouble. But some idiots figure since a male won't get pregnant they don't have to bother, even that he is "unmanned" if they neuter him.
If I may be allowed a bad pun, balls!

Do these stupid people not know they own a pit bull? Responsible owners keep their dogs under control.

SF Mayor Gavin Newsom has called for illegalization of pit bulls in his city, which, if effected, would be one of the few good regulatory laws his city has enacted.

There's another angle to this story: many pit bulls are bred by former state prison inmates, convicted felons all, and then sold to Northern California marijuana growers who use them to protect their turf, or to others who have contact with cons, such as the two lawyers in SF who regularly mingled with such lowlife and whose pit bull mauled that young lady several years ago. So think of that the next time you're tempted to score some Humboldt County green.

It's not really an issue of obedience training for the dog. A pit bull with no training of any sort is not a killer. You have to make a pit bull into a deadly dog.

If you're referring to the Diane Whipple case, those were not pit bulls. They were a mix between Canary Island fighting dog and English mastiff.

JQ, true. But they were ex-inmate bred nonetheless, which was my point. "A breed by any other name would fell so meet."

As far as I know, the owners of those dogs were currently inmates (or were when the attacks occured), hence their lawyers having possession of them. My point, and I grant it's an obscure one not easily gleaned from that post, is that banning pit bulls is not the answer. Banning pit bulls is the gun control advocate's answer. While I do advocate stronger gun laws, I do repect the fact that while careless ownership of firearms causes death that does not mean ownership of firearms is the problem, careless ownership is. So to with pit bulls or any other dog that can be trained to over-agressiveness. It is the careless or malfeasant ownership of these dogs that is the problem. Pit bulls are not time bombs waiting to go off.

Having worked at the ASPCA and other animal organizations, I can tell you that pit bulls are actually not agressive dogs. In fact, a well-trained cocker spaniel or dalmation is normally considered a bigger bite risk than a well-trained pit bull.

BUT, the problem is that pits are blessed/cursed with a TREMENDOUS bite strength that leads them to be popular with people who are looking to own an intimidating dog. Now, what needs to be outlawed are the ignorant assh*les who own these dogs for status symbols and train them to be agressive because they "look cool" when they are growling and snapping at people and they are walking them on a big chain.

Add to this, people who have NO business training these dogs to be agressive and then are so devoid of personal responsibility that they have created a monster that they are total incapable of handling. A pox upon these people, they are also adding to the problem.

OK, something suddenly hit me.

I don't own a dog - never have. But let me put myself in this situation. I've got two largish, potentially dangerous dogs, and a 12-year-old. The male dog is acting "possessive", and I worry about leaving a child home alone with these dogs. I'm pretty sure I'd lock the DOGS in the basement, not the 12-year-old. I'm trying to imagine what that would feel like, as a kid, when a parent says, "The dogs are acting a bit funny, so, y'know, I'm gonna lock YOU up."

LXN

[ June 24, 2005, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: Lexington ]

I have never understood the appeal of owning a "pet" big enough to just as easily kill you as it could someone else. Maybe it's just that i'm small, but i don't see why Great Dane-sized dogs should even be allowed as pets in a residential neighborhood.

Some people have no business having kids.

Some people have no business having dogs.

Okay, as Outsports' (self-proclaimed) dog expert, I feel the need to add some insight. (FYI: I work and train search-and-rescue dogs).

First, no breed, over any other, has an inclination to bite. The statistics that there are more cocker spaniel bites is due to there are more cocker spaniels out in the general populace than pit bulls. German shepherds (my breed of choice) are the most common breed world-wide and thus have the most recorded bite numbers.

There is a biochemical difference in the pit breeds. Males and females both have a higher level of testosterone than any other breed. That is something man developed, not something that developed naturally (as all breeds are manipulations by man). However, pit bulls are the AK-47 of dogs - they are fighting machines and a bite is nirvana for them. I refer to pit bulls as "probable lawsuits" and many homeowners insurance companies are excluding coverage for any activity by a pit breed. Insurance cos. are also excluding dogs by weight (no matter of breed)which, given that pits often weight less than 40 lbs., is ineffective.

Banning dogs from areas by size would prevent people such as myself from having working dogs that serve the community. (My dogs have responded to 100s of missing person cases incl. 9/11.)

The San Francisco case involved not a mixed breed but a breed know as a Cane Corso, an ancient mastiff breed bred as a war dog. Again, not a breed most "pet owners" can handle.

Advice: if you have a neighbor with a dog that you feel is a danger, notify the proper gov't agency. Don't be subtle - don't ask their advice. Tell them you are advising them of a dangerous dog situation. Most agencies are required to respond to such a notice. Thus if anything happens due to that dog, the gov't would be jointly liable. If you are attacked by a pit and have some strength, your best bet is to lift the dog off the ground and try to swing it into the side of a wall or into a tree. I know, easily said. I was attacked by a pit and I ended up bashing him with the side of a dumpster and then flinging him inside the dumpster. 9 out of 10 dogs will back off from a charge - keep the dog in front of you and you should be able to get away. At this point, being a jogger in a rural community, even the most aggressive dogs around know better than to f*** with me.

If you own a dog, socialize it, and get it trained.

TC, great post. People are as responsible for their dog's behavior as they are their children. For the life of me, I can't understand letting your dog roam. Our Collie was in puppy class from the time he was allowed to be there and his personality was incredibly loving; even at the end when he was in so much pain. A trained dog is a happy dog.

Now, if anyone knows of a great Blue Merle Collie pup needing a home, we're ready to be parents again.

TCV, thanks for an interesting and informative post, to which I'd add just one thing. If your complaint to the local agency goes unanswered, follow it up in writing, via certified mail, return receipt requested, to document that you've complained in case something bad happens later. That way, you've laid the foundation for asserting, if not exactly establishing, liability against the agency, as well as documenting your concerns about the dog itself. But most times, agencies start to take things seriously when they get certified/RRR mail, because they know what can happen if they ignore it!

The only thing I would add to TC's great post is if you own a dog or provide a home for a cat NEUTER IT!!!!
Aside from the thousands of healthy animals killed in shelters every year because there are no homes, and the thousands of miserable feral animals roaming neighborhoods spreading disease and fighting and breeding, it is not surprising that in all these recent cases the dogs were intact. They are aggressive because nature intends for animals to be aggressive in order to mate. For god's sake you are not destroying manhood.
Please remember that companion animals are not living in a state of nature. The human is responsible not only for caring for the animal but also for the animal's behavior.
I agree it's not (just) the size. Many large dog breeds are very gentle animals. Some small dogs are aggressive but a small aggressive animal can be overcome. A large aggressive one can't.
And another local woman was attacked by her own pit bull, she was cleaning up after he barfed and he attacked her.

So aggressive pit bulls are caused by marijuana sales. Yeah, okay...what a typically idiotic right wing comment...

How many children have to be mauled before pit bulls are specifically either outlawed or highly restricted? The highest pit bull ownership in the bay area is in Oakland where the homeboys use them to protect their "turf." Duh. Pitbulls were bred for violence: outlaw them. Keep them miles and miles away from children and the elderly. It's obvious.

[ June 27, 2005, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Bryan ]

While I can agree with the idea that pits should be banned, unfortunately there are plenty of other breeds those type of people drawn to powerful, aggressive dogs can move on to (hello, Rottweilers!). The case in SanFran is an example: the dogs in the case, as I mentioned above, are NOT a "pit" type dog so any exclusion of pit breeds would not have helped in that regard. Believe me, treat a Labrador retriever bad enough and he'll become a 80-90 lb. weapon. Many municipalities require extra insurance if you own a pit breed but it is next to impossible to enforce.

If you live in Denver, you won't have to worry about pit bulls much longer -- they are all being rounded up and murdered...

ABC News story