Last evening, I was watching the news. I'm getting the impression that straight people that don't approve of our lifestyle are beginning to panic. Between gay marriage, the talk about the amending of the constitution, Brownie/Girlscout organizations being shut down because of teachings that support the gay lifestyle, etc., some straight people may be feeling overwhelmed threatened.

My concern and reason for initiating this topic is because desperate people tend to do desperate things. I worry about violence/gay bashing by straight people who are not on our side.

I've been seeing straight people on the news becoming more aggressive against our cause. How do you all feel about the possibility that things could become violent? Should we be concerned or am I just paranoid?


[Thread title modified for spelling. - Outsports moderator]

[ March 07, 2004, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: m1 ]

It may spur on someone already thinking of it but if someone's not already prone to become violent against gays they're not going to start now. But let them panic. People who panic make mistakes, and we can capitalize on them.

A couple of weeks ago, my partner and I went to a broadway show in Seattle. We were with some friends and it was during intermission. We, along with hundreds of other people were standing in front of the theatre. A car drove buy with a bunch of guys. They started yelling DIE FAGS!!

It was strange because there were so many different kinds of people there. It made me feel like they were yelling directly at me. I know they weren't, but because they were stopped at a traffic light, I thought that they might get out of their car or something. It was humiliating, unexpected and basically spoiled the evening for me. It just makes me think things may get worse as we move forward.

Remember our new mantra: All Things Just Keep Getting Better.

Those morons weren't getting out of that car. Not in front of hundreds of witnesses. That's the best that those pea-brained cowards could do, was to holler out of a car window. Don't give those gutless pukes a second thought. They're not worth it.

The straight community at large will be fine. Don't worry about them feeling overwhelmed. After all, they're the large majority of the population so they'll never actually BE overwhelmed. As time goes on any fears they may have will fall by the wayside. Only the hard-core haters will suffer, as they become more and more marginalized.

Very well said, Joe.

I agree. Thanks, Joe.

Joe is right. Let the fools show their true colors and don't strike back unless your life, or wellness depends on it, or that of another person. If haters decide to strike out against us, it will only serve to justify legislation that gives us equal rights. This same thing happened during the civil rights movement led by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. He strongly urged that the black community not fight back with fists, and that only angered the white supremists, seperatists and dixiecrats. The more the black citizens were beaten the more that the general population and politicians realized the truth of the matter. The Clock of destiny is ticking, and the right wing bigots here it louder than anyone. Let the clock keep ticking.

I don't really see any sort of 'uprising'. You obviously see the Jerry Falwells of the world in a panic, but other than that.....I think most people are just willing to let the courts and such deal with it. In polls that I've seen on like CNN/USA Today, most Americans didn't think it was necessary to go through with the amendment banning gay marriages.

Also something to do with polls, when you are directly asked whether you support or oppose gay marriage, obviously a lot of the straight people aren't gonna say they support it. But it also doesn't mean they'd fight it and be upset if it was allowed.

Think of the scenes we've seen in just the past few weeks--and take heart from them. Same-sex couples of all ages have been entering city or county offices all across the country and getting married! Whether they've been together forming a family for six months or twenty years, they now vow "til death do us part." They emerge, surrounded by friends and well-wishers. Yes, there are small groups opposed to these marriages, but they are merely exercising their right to protest, peacefully. When the President (in a callow, bald-faced political ploy) called for a constitutional amendment to prevent these marriages, it was members of his own party who were among his most vocal critics!

Now think of the images we haven't seen: no government official has "called out the guard" to bar the doors of county buildings to prevent these couples from exchanging vows. Not one arrest has been made. No acts of violence have been reported. And there has been no sudden massing of protesters marching on San Francisco, West Hollywood, or even Washington.

Our nation's history can be seen as the story of ever-expanding civil rights. There have been struggles and setbacks along the way, but the struggles have always borne fruit. We may not see gay marriages legaized just yet, but look how far we have come in a relatively short time--all polls indicate the majority of people approve of "some form of gay unions." Just a few years back, this would not be. People who oppose basic civil rights always find themselves on the wrong side of history. Take heart in this.

~Adam

JIP - I completely agree with you. I also see where there is a concern. All in all, the strides being made are very positive.

I certainly agree that the strides we have made are a great thing. I just think there are some crazy people out there that resort to violence when it comes to issues like ours. They did it when segregation was being threatened and they've done it with the abortion issue. It's their desperate reaction based purely on fear and hate. I do feel that we should stay strong a move forward but I dread seeing an increase in violence against gay people.

Originally posted by Jorel:

While I'm certainly glad the incident didn't result in a violent confrontation, nonetheless I find it quite disturbing. I've been to Seattle several times and always thought of it as a fairly progressive and gay-friendly city. Perhaps this was just an ugly, isolated incident.

Jorel, I'm curious to know what the crowd's reaction was to this, if you were able to guage it at all. I would hope that most of the people expressed disgust and anger at such hateful verbal garbage. If anyone was able to take down the licence plate of the car, I wonder if the police would have been able to follow up and do anything about it? I'm guessing the play you saw had a gay theme with a sign visible from the street, which might have accounted for (but in no way justified, of course) the behaviour of these bigots.

Im more concerned with the fact that there are people in our government who want to pass a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT that discriminates. And the fact a Republican, the party of less government and states rights, is the one who is leading the way.

But this is all mainly a diversion from the real problems of the country. Its an act of desperation by Bush and his cohorts. Its a bait and switch. Take heat off his war, off job loss, off gas prices increasing, and throw the heat on homosexuals trying to live the American dream and get the tax and social benefits theyre entitled to.

[ March 06, 2004, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: DallasUNC ]

This may sound trite, but here's my view.

I'm 48, and happily partnered for 23.5 years, (but would be bad for Copman).

When I was 18, my 19 year old lover was beaten to death in a gay bashing that to this day is unsolved.

WHen I was 23, I walked out on my family due to being gay. The estrangement lasted 8 years.

WHen I was 25, I was bashed. My right jaw was broken in 2 places, my right eye socket was broken, had numerous broken ribs, and the bastard even broke all the toes on 1 foot.

I have been fired for being gay. I have been spit on, denied access to friends funerals because the families didn't want the "wrong" type of people there.

Are things getting better?

f**king well YES>!!!!

My partner and I live in a small town 1 hour north of Toronto, and have no problems. WE hve great neighbours, and lots of friends who accept BOTH of us.

To let you know how much better it is, last Halloween a few teenagers shot paint balls at the house. The next morning, the parents marched them to the house with scrub brushes and made them scrub the stones clean.

Things may look nuts now, but when I look back 25 years, things are DEFINATLEY better.

(now if Copman could just visit with his cuffs)

Lksimcoe and Adam, thanks for your posts!

Gay bashings and anti-gay attacks may increase, but I also agree that things are better, even in the United States. When I think about the number of anti-gay attacks and the anti-gay rhetoric in cities we now think of very pro-gay (with gay-sympathetic mayors, legislators, etc.) like

=San Francisco (where a wacko killed supervisor Harvey Milk and got off using an insulting and idiotic excuse)
=Boston (where the Glad Day Bookstore was thought to have been burnt down by the Fire Dept. in the early 1980s, where the mayors were anti-gay, and where gay men were beaten in the Fens in the 1980s)
=New York (where a psycho shot men on West Street in the late 1970s, and gay men were killed in a number of neighborhoods, including the Village)
=Chicago (where police raided gay bars and gay bashings weren't uncommon in the 1970s)

and St. Louis, Atlanta, etc., and I think of today, things certainly have gotten better. A LOT BETTER! And if it weren't for the courageous people of our history, for the people battling for civil rights and gay rights from the early 20th century on, for the courageous people in 1969 and all the gay rights marchers and litigants, for people coming out and being gay in public, we'd not be at the place we are now, where states and cities, and millions of our straight fellow citizens, are willing to recognize our equal rights.

We need to be strong, we need to support each other, we need to be sure we don't back down, we need to support our allies and those who help us out in various ways (like the black legislators in Georgia who banded together to block the amendment there), and not take crumbs. That's all we get when that's what we're willing to accept.

[ March 06, 2004, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

FT, you're right, things ARE better now, and not just in the ways you mentioned. Consider the openness of the present debate over gay marriage, for lack of a better shorthand term. Years ago, people didn't even TALK about these things, whether in open or polite society or elsewhere. The openness of the debate and how much has already been implicitly conceded by our opponents are truly amazing and bodes well for our futures. I fully expect to see equal marriage rights within my lifetime!

Boy, you have been through a lot! - I think things are definetely getting better! When I was outed at work there was virtually no probems. Times have changed. And Lksimcoe, I am VERY flattered by your comments but my partner of 5 years is bad enough for me - wink One is enuff!

To answer your questions, Marc, we were at the 5th Avenue Theatre to watch Dreamgirls. So yes, I think there were more gay/Lesbian people there than usual. Because of the play's subject matter, there were many black people there as well. When the group of guys started yelling "Die Fags", everyone looked at them. There were alot of gay and lesbian people around me. Everyone tried their best to ingnore the comments but it was a bit uncomfortable. As a person of color, it also reminded me of discrimination based on color.

I too agree that we have come along way and that we are more accepted. I just think anything worth fighting for is not easy and now that our isses are once again out there, we may have to be prepared for more attacks like these to occur.

Lksimcoe, thank you for sharing your story. Hearing what you've been through and knowing that you've continued to move forward with your life is very inspiring. Thank you.

Adam, there hasn't been any attempts for same-sex couples to wed in Florida yet. I wonder if old Jeb Bush would call out the National Guard to come and get us if that were to happen. I would love to hear that phone call from Dubya to Jeb if they started passing out marriage licenses in Orlando! Just remember us poor Floridians... we have the double whammy of having both Bushes to contend with. Oh my god, wake me when it's over!!

Copman: Don't worry. Married is exactly that.

And besides. Theres a REALLY cute conservation officer that lives on my street. Single, built like a brick shithouse, works in shorts during the summer.

AND HAS A PAIR OF HANDCUFFS HANGING OF THE REAR VIEW MIRROR IN HIS JEEP.

(is this what the vapours feel like)



Oh, and for the people who think that the last line is "too" gay, (my evangelical sister is like that).

I have f**king well deserved to be as tacky as I want, WHENEVER I want.

Besides, how tacky could I really be. I mean, Man U RULES in my book!

LkSimcoe, there was definitely nothing 'trite' about your story, and I appreciate you sharing it with us. I'm the same age as you and grew up in Ontario as well (I assume you were living there when these sad events happened), but thankfully never experienced anything like you did. I'm glad life is much better for you now.

... and soon to be the legal gay wedding capital of the US! Times they are a changin'.

But I agree that sometimes its a step forward, two steps back. I, too, fear that all the strides of the past couple of years will solidify opposition to equality.

from gadbearr:

....there hasn't been any attempt for same-sex couples to wed in Florida yet. I wonder if old Jeb Bush woule call out the National Guard to come and get us if that were to happen.

I seriously doubt that even in Florida the guard would be called out--the image of county or city offices being blocked is not one they want and no governor wants to be this generation's Orval Faubus. It would be particularly difficult for Jeb Bush to call out the guard--the backlash on the prez would be too great (how could he possibly claim--in his usual callow, semi-smirky way--to be a "compassionate conservative" if he is at all involved with the guard barring the doors?)

~Adam