Joe in Philly
Dec 28 2004, 09:14 AM
After their meltdown where employees called in sick in large numbers over the holiday weekend, people are still trying to get their luggage after FIVE days of backlogs. (They were flying planes between here and Charlotte filled with nothing but luggage!) This article speculates that people are so unhappy with USAirways that it might be the final straw that puts them out of business. Since I have a credit card that earns me frequent flier miles for them, it seems to me that I ought to make a trip somewhere really
soon and use up my miles. Anyone want to invite me to visit? wink
The end of USAirways?
dcbulgefreak
Dec 28 2004, 09:52 AM
While its never good for people to lose their jobs, if this airline went away, the customers
would be better off. US Scareways is awful. Last time I flew them, I asked the gate attendant to switch my seat to the exit row (more leg room). She said she couldn't cuz the plane was packed. At takeoff, it was in reality about 1/2 full. Thanks bitch! ;-)
Continental used to be the worst many years ago, but turned it around. Dunno if its too late for US Airways.
I wish Midwest Express would expand. Their people are great, and the 717s they fly with business class seats from front to back can't be beat. Unfortunately, they only have 3 nonstop destinations from DCA.
William1865
Dec 28 2004, 10:13 AM
Joe, I think you can go to Milepoint.com and use your miles to buy stuff - mag subscriptions, etc. I've been meaning to do that. US Airways is a bizarre amalgamation of a bunch of other airlines (Piedmont, Alleghany, etc) and best I can tell doesn't really have a very viable set-up/operation. Unions are all effed up to. If it goes under others will probably come in and take many of the routes. Charlotte would be particularly screwed though. Don't know who would go in there.
Joe in Philly
Dec 28 2004, 12:14 PM
I really don't want to use miles to buy stuff. I want to fly for free or upgrade to first class. wink
hockeyTom
Dec 28 2004, 12:23 PM
If you ask me, the airline industry in this country, just like our beloved wonderful health care system, is in critical condition here. Wishing away the problems will not make them any better. What I want to know is this: why the hell did all the airline employees call in sick. This was orchestrated? By whom, and what for? Working conditions? Stress from all the security changes? What happened?
illini n milwaukee
Dec 28 2004, 12:40 PM
puckman hit the nail on the head. This is not a US Airways problem, this could have easily happened with any other major US Airline too. Are European/Asian airlines in this same sort of mess? You don't really hear about them being in financial trouble, but it could just be a US News thing.
If you do want a good carrier that's pretty darn up front, try Independence Air. It's expected to be the next one to go bankrupt, but it's very nice. It's similar to a Jet Blue, with all their seats being leather and all that. Their problem just seems to be getting people to fly them. I've gone on 3 flights with them and they've all been half full, if that. They are mainly an east coast airline, with their hub being Wash-Dulles. And it's pretty darn cheap booking through them, especially with little advance notice.
Jordan327
Dec 28 2004, 12:48 PM
Indy Air is great. I really hope they make it. If you run a small business do this: Go to
www.FLYi.com/save20, answer a few quick questions about your company travel and click the submit button. Indy Air will then send you a special web address where everyone at your company can book their travel at a 20% discount on our available fares at the time of booking on Independence Air flights booked by March 31, 2005. And if you dont -- their frequent flier club "iClub" will double your "iPoints" through 6/30/05.
MarinerFan
Dec 28 2004, 12:51 PM
There have been several factors at play affecting the US airline industry which have become a domino effect.
1. 9/11 crippled the airline industry, and have not been able to recover due to the following.
2. Business travel has been reduced greatly. This once the bread and butter of the big air carriers.
3. Low cost carriers have undercut the big air carriers.
4. High jet fuel costs. A few of the smart airlines hedge the fluctuations in jet fuel costs.
5. Passenger mentality, they want all the perks of a full service carrier like Continental but are only willing to pay Southworst type airfare. Yet these same people are willing to fork out money on expensive hotels.
My partner who works for an airline has been working on an expired contract for over 2 years now. The airline wants them to take a pay cut, and the union of course wants a huge raise.
Mike
MIB
Dec 28 2004, 12:56 PM
Every employee who called in sick during such a critical time of the year should be fired--and denied unemployment compensation for such blatant misconduct. They may have tried to hurt their employer, but they hurt the consumer worse than anyone else, and that is who really matters in this whole thing.
mdphl
Dec 28 2004, 03:21 PM
US Airways' problems are both a result of the overall poor health of the industry and unique to their situation.
The Company is pathetically managed, there is no management continuity or discernable gameplan other than to slash costs and try to become more of a destination carrier rather than a hub operation. Easier said than done.
I fly this airline frequently. Simply stated, their customer service sucks. The angry employees (most forced to take giant pay cuts) take out their anger on the customers. Management looks the other way and is non-responsive to customer complaints (they don't even respond to written communications anymore).
The airline has held cities like Philly, Pittsburgh and Charlotte hostage demanding top rate facilities and a virtual monopoly on gates.
The article JIP linked comments that this latest fiasco may be the straw that breaks the airline's back. I wouldn't be surprised if they are out of business by May 1st or earlier.
In the meantime, I've learned not to check my baggage or expect much in terms of customer service or accomdations. I also choose any reasonable alternative over this airline whenever possible.
Note to JIP - use those frequent flyer miles soon before they are worthless.
Joe in Philly
Dec 28 2004, 03:36 PM
I'd love to but I need somewhere to go, something to do, someone to do...ummm, see... wink
I've had no real problems in my flights in recent years and the wait for my checked luggage wasn't overly long. I even flew to Texas for a few days after Christmas in 2001 and flew home on New Year's Day and had no problems. Of course, the airline is in worse shape now than it was in 2001. Also, my flights have been on weekdays and non-holidays.
QUOTE
I'd love to but I need somewhere to go, something to do, someone to do...ummm, see...
Maybe you could catch a flight to Jacksonville in Feb. and watch the Super Bowl. Not that you'd be cheering for anyone in particular, seeing as the Eagles won't be there.
mdphl
Dec 28 2004, 03:50 PM
QUOTE
Weaselman:
QUOTE
I'd love to but I need somewhere to go, something to do, someone to do...ummm, see...
Maybe you could catch a flight to Jacksonville in Feb. and watch the Super Bowl. Not that you'd be cheering for anyone in particular, seeing as the Eagles won't be there.
Now that's just plain mean :confused:
Or he could fly to Minneapolis and keep you warm some winter weekend wink
BPT-336
Dec 28 2004, 04:07 PM
QUOTE
mdphl:
Or he could fly to Minneapolis and keep you warm some winter weekend wink
Or you
and Allen..... (cue the background porn track please!) eek!
PhillyFan
Dec 28 2004, 04:08 PM
.... can both go to the gym, i heard that allen works out.
phillyrunner
Dec 28 2004, 06:53 PM
I just flew US Airways to Florida this past week. I left Tuesday on a full flight and did not check bagagge. The only issue was arriving an hour late, that was about it. On the way back on Monday the plane was only half full which was odd, I did check baggage and got it right away when I arrived in Philly.
I have flown for years as a preferred member of the the airline and have noticed a steady decline in service for all of the reasons mentioned above. I am using more of my frequent flier miles for trips now just in case. However, I think if they go under, another airline taking over would probably try to honor the frequent flier program as a gesture of goodwill.
Joe, anywhere in Florida or California is a great place to use these miles during the winter.
phillyrunner
Dec 28 2004, 09:19 PM
Ok, now I know management at this company is not playing with a full deck. US Airways is now asking their employees to work for FREE over the New Years weekend to avoid a reoccurance of last week's fiasco.
Hmmm... FREE what the heck is that? Has senior management considered working for free for the good of the airline?
William1865
Dec 29 2004, 08:09 AM
QUOTE
illini n milwaukee:
puckman hit the nail on the head. This is not a US Airways problem, this could have easily happened with any other major US Airline too. Are European/Asian airlines in this same sort of mess?
This is all off the top of my head here, but yes, they are. Swissair shut down and reopened as SWISS International, which is now as I understand on the verge of collapse. Sabena Belgian World Airays I believe has ceased to exist. Alitalia from Italy and Olympic from Greece are having troubles, as are most if not all of the European carriers. Asian carriers I believe were hit hard by the whole SARS thing but not sure what's up with them now.
William1865
Dec 29 2004, 08:18 AM
QUOTE
Joe in Philly:
I really don't want to use miles to buy stuff. I want to fly for free or upgrade to first class. wink
I wouldn't be too picky, what with your miles hurtling toward worthlessness, but a friend and I were talking about this last night (he's in the same boat as you) - it's his understanding that what you need to do is book a flight somewhere and get a paper ticket not on USAirways but on one of the STAR Alliance carriers with whom USA codeshares (the largest of these is United, which isn't rolling in dough but is doing better than USA). He wasn't 100% clear on details. Washington Post has had a few articles about what USA FFs should do but I'm not in the mood to look them up right now. I bet if you googled US Airways frequent fliers there are probably tons of sites with advice on this.
I flew US Airways a couple of Christmases ago from DCA to MEM with a layover in Pittsburgh. Flight from DCA-PIT was 34 minutes takeoff-to-touchdown, and flying out of DCA you can't get out of your seat for the first 30 minutes of the flight, so basically you couldn't get up during this flight, but one guy did to take his kid to the bathroom but we didn't divert or anything like I believe we were technically supposed to. This flight was on an Airbus 321, which is their version of a 757. Very nice plane. In PIT I was walking to the USA Express terminal and discovered a video game arcade tucked into a corner with Miss Pac Man and Centipede. My flight was delayed one hour and I was thrilled.
US Airways also has this new regional jet, the Embraer 180, that looks really neat. I've seen them here in DC. Hopefully some other airline will get it and fly it to somewhere I'm going because it's not looking likely on US Airways.
If US Airways goes under there will be a mad dash for their DCA routes, which are heavily regulated and rationed out by the FAA.
Munson Man
Dec 29 2004, 08:50 AM
I think if US Airways goes under Jet Blue may try to get their gate assignments at some of the Northeast and mid Atlantic airports. They essentially make money by flying almost every hour from the Northeast to various airports in Florida. I fly them constantly from JFK to Fort Lauderdale and back - the service is great, the planes are new, the staff is helpful. I'd take them over any of the cash-strapped, service-challenged traditional carriers.
MarinerFan
Dec 29 2004, 09:07 AM
Hey JIP you may want to check out flyertalk.com it has a message board for frequent fliers. I know they have forums specifically related on what to do with expiring frequent flier miles. I know they also have boards for each of the airlines, you may want to check out the US Airways board. I imagine there has been a lot of talk about what would happen to your miles if they go out of business.
Mike
CHIathlete
Dec 29 2004, 09:18 AM
QUOTE
US Airways also has this new regional jet, the Embraer 180, that looks really neat.
United Express/Chautauqua has recently started using some of these brand new jets. They are quite nice!
GatorJamie
Dec 29 2004, 09:30 AM
QUOTE
MarinerFan:
Passenger mentality, they want all the perks of a full service carrier like Continental but are only willing to pay Southworst type airfare.
All I want is to arrive safely, within a reasonable time of the contracted time, with my bags, and not to be treated miserably by "service" personnel.
I AM F*CKING FURIOUS at the way my father and friend were treated by Delta this past weekend. After being made to stand in a line overnight, after losing his luggage for 3 days, after treating him like a f*cking animal, they had the NERVE to STEAL FROM HIS LUGGAGE on the return trip.
My letter of complaint is being cc'ed to the FAA TSA, and my and his congressmen.
Bailouts, my a$$.
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
MarinerFan
Dec 29 2004, 09:52 AM
QUOTE
GatorJamie:
QUOTE
MarinerFan:
Passenger mentality, they want all the perks of a full service carrier like Continental but are only willing to pay Southworst type airfare.
I AM F*CKING FURIOUS at the way my father and friend were treated by Delta this past weekend. After being made to stand in a line overnight, after losing his luggage for 3 days, after treating him like a f*cking animal, they had the NERVE to STEAL FROM HIS LUGGAGE on the return trip.
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Delta is notorious for poor customer service.... My partner works for Alaska Airlines, they are consistently ranked in the top 3 for customer service. However things are not as good as they used to be. The airlines have had a horrible 3 years with layoffs, pay cuts, benefit cuts. It is no wonder customer service has slipped across the board for the airlines. Given everything that has happened to this industry who could have a high morale?
GJ I would follow up your letter with a call to Delta's consumer relations to ask for compensation for the stolen items, and the inconvenience. It would not be unreasonable to expect monetary compensation for the stolen items and a ticket vouchers or frequent flier miles for the hassle your dad was put through.
Mike
Penn State
Dec 29 2004, 06:33 PM
QUOTE
William1865:
QUOTE
illini n milwaukee:
puckman hit the nail on the head. This is not a US Airways problem, this could have easily happened with any other major US Airline too. Are European/Asian airlines in this same sort of mess?
This is all off the top of my head here, but yes, they are. Swissair shut down and reopened as SWISS International, which is now as I understand on the verge of collapse. Sabena Belgian World Airays I believe has ceased to exist. Alitalia from Italy and Olympic from Greece are having troubles, as are most if not all of the European carriers. Asian carriers I believe were hit hard by the whole SARS thing but not sure what's up with them now.
The issue here, as I understand it, is that many of the foreign airlines traditionally have been state subsidized, hence many "national" airlines. In recent years, the trend has been for governments to pull back or eliminate the subsidies and make them go it on their own. So the days of superior service, free booze in coach, and so on may not last forever.
Penn State
Dec 29 2004, 06:39 PM
QUOTE
phillyrunner:
Ok, now I know management at this company is not playing with a full deck. US Airways is now asking their employees to work for FREE over the New Years weekend to avoid a reoccurance of last week's fiasco.
Hmmm... FREE what the heck is that? Has senior management considered working for free for the good of the airline?
Top management should all be fired immediately with that idiotic move. It accomplishes nothing... well, unless you want to piss off your employees even more, and look like complete numbskulls to the public. If this is a PR move (and if it isn't they are even dumber than I think) I don't know anyone who would fly US Air just because they made their employees work for free on a holiday weekend to make up for past problems. If anything, I think it makes them look callous and cruel, and would turn people off. Plus I suspect all of these people they want to work are hourly employees... isn't it against the law not to pay them?
phillyrunner
Dec 31 2004, 12:36 PM
The big wigs at US scare must have read this thread and my comment about management working for free. This weekend 50 managers of the airline will give up their holiday to handle baggage and customer service at Philadelphia airport.
MIB
Dec 31 2004, 01:39 PM
My God! How did they get convinced to give up their champagne and caviar?
Joe in Philly
Dec 31 2004, 04:27 PM
QUOTE
Penn State:
Plus I suspect all of these people they want to work are hourly employees... isn't it against the law not to pay them?
They've said that all the people who are scheduled to work will be paid as always. They're just looking for extra people to volunteer. Those are the ones who wouldn't be paid. Whether that's legal or not I don't know. But I know I wouldn't work for free -- not for my employer or for a messed-up company like USAirways.
Penn State
Jan 1 2005, 07:59 AM
QUOTE
Joe in Philly:
QUOTE
Penn State:
Plus I suspect all of these people they want to work are hourly employees... isn't it against the law not to pay them?
They've said that all the people who are scheduled to work will be paid as always. They're just looking for extra people to volunteer. Those are the ones who wouldn't be paid. Whether that's legal or not I don't know. But I know I wouldn't work for free -- not for my employer or for a messed-up company like USAirways.
I found out later they are asking management employees to work for free, not the hourly employees. That's not working for free, as they are paid a salary. Actually, as such, US Air could demand that they work the extra hours. There are no laws regarding the hours you can make salaried employees work. I've worked for companies with mandatory 6 day work weeks during parts of the year. And I know of some companies with mandatory 55 hour workweeks for their management employees.
MarylandVol
Jan 4 2005, 01:44 PM
From my perspective as a professional travel consultant...
I hope that US Scareways doesn't go under, simply for one thing - imagine how much worse it gets when you have fewer choices of airlines. When competition goes away, remaining airlines or airline immediately has a monopoly. What about cities that only have one carrier? Try flying to some small cities that only have a couple of choices, for example.
I agree with what alot has already been posted - Southwest has grown because they are not top-heavy with over-paid people. They fly one type of aircraft, so maintenance is MUCH easier. They found their spot in the market, and for many years have been the only ones to grow.
Meanwhile, legacy carriers have made stupid decisions, taken few pay cuts if ever, expanded in ways that were not financially smart, and are getting their cans kicked by competitors that will do it better and cheaper.
I think one of the worst things to happen with 9/11 was to allow the lobbyists to pressure Congress into writing almost blank checks to airlines. What they did with America West was much smarter, and HP is now better off for the way they recovered from the disaster, while DL, US, UA and others are still robbing Peter to pay Paul. It amazes me that they can't see that by cutting the pay of the worker bees that they are slowly amputating the legs off the body just to keep the head happy. The body will still die!
I also have no sadness in saying that the travel agent community has little pity for them - they tried to cut us completely out of the business, forgetting that Travel Agencies are their best representatives. When you call an agent, you will get better service but you will pay for it. The airlines didn't want to pay for service from agencies, so they passed the cost on to you the consumer. Sure, you can go buy on the internet, and it has impacted my side of the business. Guess what - you can't do that with all destinations, you can't be sure you are always getting the best bang for your buck. Who are you going to call when you have a crazy situation come up and the lines are miles long - your computer?
I mostly handle corporate clients, and they have neither the interest nor the time to figure out the best way to get from New Orleans, to Chisnau, to Kolkata, and back.
At any rate, I've been through quite a bit with the industry the past 10 years or so, including losing a family of 4 on the plane that hit the Pentagon. That must be why I want to go back to school and do something else!
wink
CHIathlete
Jan 4 2005, 02:24 PM
Hey maryland...
Nice post. I too am in the corp. travel biz. Which company do you work with?
MarylandVol
Jan 4 2005, 05:52 PM
Smallish travel company based here in DC...I work for the office in Georgetown.
www.passportexecutive.com
twin58
Jan 5 2005, 12:05 PM
It gets worse.
Southwest Plans Service to Pittsburgh QUOTE
Move Will Put Additional Pressure on US Airways
By Keith L. Alexander
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, January 5, 2005; 12:02 PM
Southwest Airlines plans to begin service at Pittsburgh International Airport, a source familiar with the plans said today. The move, expected to be announced later today, is the latest blow to US Airways, which is the dominant carrier in Western Pennsylvania even though it drastically reduced its service at Pittsburgh last year.
....
illini n milwaukee
Jan 5 2005, 01:59 PM
I think what is keeping the worry about monopolies forming is the fact that what is undercutting many of these companies are the low-fare and generall better servicing airlines.
I think there's already the formation of 'monopoly' type companies. US Airways and United share flights, NW/Continenta/Delta are partners, etc.
Look at American Airlines...they are cutting many fares in half to compete.
This is a rare thing you see.....I always think back to the General Mills situation where they pretty much control their market and the lower cost cereal brands can't do much cause GM can put them out of business.
I have never worke in the industry and I'm probably way out of my league, but it seems to me that the airline industry isn't any different than the general public transportation industry and how horrible it is the United States. Pretty much every somewhat major city in Europe, developed Asia, Australia, etc....have great public transportation, a train system for regional travel and an efficient air travel system. From my experience with travelling in Europe, it's very easy and cheap to travel by plane around Europe (and one way tickets are actually logically half the price of a round trip instead of twice as much like the U.S.). In a survey I found online, it has the best airports, best airlines, etc. (Skytrax). None of the top 10 airports are in the U.S., no U.S. airports were in the Top 3 in security screening, dining facilities, transit, friendliness (shocker), etc. In the top 10 in best inflight entertainment, only Continental was there.
Asian airlines had 5 of the top 10 overall airlines (Continental was 9th).
The friendliest staff on North American airlines?
Jet Blue
Alaska
Midwest
SkyWest
Frontier
Do you think it's a coincidence those are all low cost airlines?
The US Dept of Transportation publishes statistics each month of on time arrivals, most baggage issues, etc. of every U.S. Airline.
The most on time flights in the past 12 months?
1. Hawaiian (obviously has a nice impact)
2. Skywest
3. JetBlue (which operates out of New York)
4. Southwest
5. US Airways (although I don't ever seem to get those flights)
The worst?
American Airlines, American Eagle, Delta...
The most on time airline since these rannkings were compiled? Southwest
The least number of flights cancelled? JetBlue
How many of the total flights in the United States are delayed because of bad weather? .84%.
81% arrive on time, 1.10% are cancelled (non-weather related), 4.5% have to do with the airline having a delay, 7% have to do with the national aviation system having a delay and 5.26% have to do with late arriving planes.
What airlines have the fewest baggage problems?
1) AirTran
2) JetBlue
3) Alaska
4) Hawaiian
5) Continental
6) Southwest
7) ATA
Hmmm, all low cost airlines.
Fewest overbookings?
1) JetBlue
2) SkyWest
3) Hawaiian
4) AirTran
If the major airlines want to solve a big part of their problems, they ought to do one major thing: get rid of that antiquated hub-and-spoke system. It's a frickin' joke.
No wonder the successful airlines don't operate via this method.
MarylandVol
Jan 6 2005, 08:18 AM
Not using a hub system for the most part is what Southwest did right, along with not overcharging for their service, not trying to be everything to everyone. Instead, they took the "this is what we do, this is what it costs, you don't get much but we can do it cheaper with no frills."
Remember, there are many people who now fly that used to ride the bus. Deregulation caused many tremors in the airline industry, and look at some of the best names in travel that are relegated to the past (Braniff? TWA? Eastern? Pan Am?)
Did you know some legacy airlines pays pilots of larger jets something in the neighborhood of $250k annually? And you can imagine the millions that the head honchos make, while frontline folks make $30k at most?
In the business world, those who won't change with the times are not likely to survive the changes around them without finding ways to innovate and continue to keep their product relevant.
danimal
Jan 26 2005, 03:06 PM
QUOTE
MIB:
If the major airlines want to solve a big part of their problems, they ought to do one major thing: get rid of that antiquated hub-and-spoke system. It's a frickin' joke.
No wonder the successful airlines don't operate via this method.
Agreed. Hub-and-spoke (sometimes called "grub and choke") is also the real (but politically unmentionable) cause of congestion at the biggest hubs, especially O'Hare. Seven in 10 passengers flying to O'Hare connect to other flights, according to the
Daily Herald. The ripple effect on other airports is often mentioned, but seemingly nobody talks about how much of that logjam could be prevented by putting some of those 7-out-of-10 on direct flights from point A to point B (rather than funneling them all through O'Hare).
[ January 26, 2005, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: danimal ]
Brent
Jan 26 2005, 06:25 PM
Big hubs were created to control as much traffic as possible by individual airlines. They could charge premium prices for that hub, and scare away potential competition with huge resources.
The secondary reasons cited like frequent departures to the most destinations is like citing freedom as the reason we invaded Iraq.
It's an easy thing to say now that they should bypass hubs. But if you're living in Green Bay, and want to fly somewhere--what would you suggest?
Airlines as a group have been greedy bastards for far too long--and the chickens have long come home to roost on that one. And they're stuck with cost structures just like the government has with veterans benefits, that far outstrips their ability to overcharge to cover for these days.
They can't figure out who they are, and what they want to do, and this means their customers drift between them with less and less loyalty over time. There is no consistent product put out there, and no trust with their employees or the public that they're going to get what they're expecting.
So you add on their own stupidity to ridiculous security expenses and excessive taxes--take a look at any trip what you're actual cost is versus the total with all the taxes, and huge increases in fuel--and you have a continuous disaster-in-progress.
The writing was on the wall for this for a long time, and it will be a long time before it changes. And I suspect that means in the end fewer choices, higher fares, and really no better service except for a few peculiarities. I've never understood why airports often have huge, soaring empty spaces jutted up against very crowded parts. All that costs money, and increases frustrations, and it seems they're so busy untangling the yarnball of their own making they can't step back and ask why they're doing what they're doing in the first place.
Frequent flier plans are nothing more than a tax-subsidized ponzi scheme: they don't have to keep the liabilities on the books, and no one pays any taxes on the benefits. When an airline goes bankrupt, or eventually out of business, all those "benefits" just disappear, much like the employeee pensions.
Southwest/JetBlue et al continue to do a better job than the rest--but they clearly aren't providing service to the vast majority of places people want to go. Southwest indeed does do hubbing--they're just doing it on a much more smaller, spread-out basis, i.e. Phoenix, Vegas, Houston, Chicago-Midway, Baltimore, etc. If a big carrier like United collapsed, there would be extended periods of immense chaos.
But that's our virtual regulation-free, capitalistic system at its' best! The rich will always have a work-around any problem--in this case even if they're chartering horribly inefficient private jets to do so. The rest of us schmucks will just have to make do.
Then again--do we all really need to travel as much as we do anyway??
Now that's a radical thought we shouldn't even whisper! eek!
danimal
Jan 27 2005, 11:28 AM
QUOTE
Brent:
It's an easy thing to say now that they should bypass hubs. But if you're living in Green Bay, and want to fly somewhere--what would you suggest?
It's tough enough from Milwaukee (or at least it was when I lived there), and far too many passengers ended up driving (or taking a puddle-jumper) to O'Hare when it would've been more efficient for travelers from far northern IL to fly out of underused Mitchell.
But no, the individual traveler's choices are often limited (arbirtrarily, by the airlines, for their own financial benefit, at the expense of their supposed customers). If you're flying to or from a non-hub airport, you take what you can get and pay for the privilege. The alternatives (unless you live in the relatively rail-friendly Northeast) are long, dreary drives and even longer, drearier (and sometimes scary) bus rides.
As for traveling less ... that's exactly what many businesses are doing, as
MarinerFan said earlier. Before my Fortune 500 employer started several years of massive staff cuts, it slashed contractors, training expenses, and travel ... and so did its customers. The slashing is done (for now), and profits are back, but the squeeze is still on. Goodbye frequent flier miles and minibars, hello conference calls and NetMeeting ("You
vill vatch mein PowerPoint schlides at ze pace zat I diktate, und you vill like it! Or you vill be schott!"). That hurt airlines far more than 9/11 (and still does), but "we're victims of terrorism" is an easier sell, with Wall Street or Congress, than "corporate bean-counters find us expendable" (hey, join the club).
CPT_Doom
Jan 27 2005, 11:41 AM
Given the frustrations and delays in flying, not to mention the distance between most major aiports and the cities they supposedly serve, I have found it is actually better to drive than to fly some relatively long distances.
For example, my sister lives 380 miles from me, in Mass. To fly there I have to go to Bradley airport outside Hartford, which is 1/2 hour - 45 minutes from my sister's house. At this end, I have to get to one of the three airports (and it is nice having three to choose from - lower fares are typically easy to find), all of which take a minimum of 45 minutes to get to. Add to that the 2 hours ahead of time that I typically have to get to the airport (e.g., if I'm parking a car there), the hour-long flight (assuming no delays in departure) and the 1/2 hour wait for bags, and we are talking about a 5-hour trip. But to drive only takes 6 1/2 - 7 hours, and costs a heck of a lot less. In addition, I have supreme flexibility in when I leave when I'm driving, so weather is not as much an issue.
Brent
Jan 27 2005, 07:57 PM
I've wondered, since the days of planning my own airline during my obsessed youth, why airlines don't combine with bus companies to create efficient transportation to airports with seemless booking/check-in/bags, etc.
A few airlines have flirted with it on occasion, like in Denver to ski areas, or from Newark to nearby cities, but they never really promoted or expanded it.
All the security b.s. has reduced the advantages of flying, and with the alternative being driving which actually increased the dangers, as it is MUCH more hazardous than flying, not to mention less efficient energy-wise.
Virgin tapped into this a bit years ago with the added perk of limo transfers to/from the airport for Upper Class passengers. I've always wondered why airlines don't pay more attention to the door-to-door experience in transportation as opposed to just thinking the only opportunity is from check-in to dump-off airport-to-airport.
It seems that kind of Big Picture thinking aflicted entities as big as the Pentagon in planning for Iraq, so it should be no surprise how omnipresent that kind of thinking is at smaller companies.
The difference being the Pentagon can never go bankrupt, no matter how much they spend.
Dick Cheney
Jan 28 2005, 11:23 AM
And now this HORRIBLE news received in an e-mail yesterday from Delta:
QUOTE
UPDCOMING DELTA SHUTTLE CHANGES
Hello Mr. Cheney,
Since you've recently flown the Delta Shuttle®, we want to let you know about upcoming Shuttle changes that are part of our company-wide transformation.
As part of the Delta Shuttle's current \"guaranteed seat\" policy, if you are unable to board a Shuttle flight because it is full, we provide another flight within 30 minutes or give you a free one-way Shuttle ticket. Effective February 1, 2005, we will eliminate these extra-section flights and, as a result, no longer offer this \"guaranteed seat\" policy. We are making this change in order to more effectively allocate our planes across our network.
We will continue to provide the same full schedule of flights every hour on the half-hour between Washington, D.C. and New York City and between Boston and New York City - that's 62 Shuttle flights every non-holiday weekday. And, we'll continue to offer our current schedule of weekend Shuttle flights. For flight accommodations, your confirmed reservation and check-in will act as your boarding priority for our flights.
Please know that we will continue to provide top-of-the-line services and amenities on the Delta Shuttle. In addition to an extensive flight schedule, the Shuttle's B-737-300 fleet offers a first-class feeling with increased legroom, leather seats and complimentary fresh snacks, magazines and drinks. We will also continue to offer our customers open seating that allows you to select the seat of your choice when boarding. And don't forget the Shuttle's on-time reliability, fast check-in options and the ability to earn at least 500 SkyMiles per flight.
For more information on the Delta Shuttle, please visit
http://e.delta.com/ct/click?q=96-pjrWQtdmd...8c6ZWAeSout0LbM.
Thank you for flying Delta, and we appreciate your support as we focus on a positive transformation of our company.
_________________________________________________
What really gets me is they think their passengers are such morons, we will believe their spin that this change is a "good" thing. Why can't they just be honest and admit they're reducing service to save $$$ even if that means screwing over some of their most loyal and highest-yielding customers.
The sooner the legacy carriers all go into bankruptcy and liquidate, the sooner we'll have decent service on the routes they presently dominate, from the likes of JetBlue and Southwest. And from staff happy to work for half the wages of the aging, unionized employees at the legacy carriers.
MarinerFan
Jan 28 2005, 11:59 AM
QUOTE
Dick Cheney:
The sooner the legacy carriers all go into bankruptcy and liquidate, the sooner we'll have decent service on the routes they presently dominate, from the likes of JetBlue and Southwest. And from staff happy to work for half the wages of the aging, unionized employees at the legacy carriers.
Not all airline employees make great wages let alone a living wage. Everyone seems to think all airline employees make the salaries of pilots.
'Aging unionized employees' WTF!!!! Not all airline employees are happy with or even want a union to represent them. I don't get what the hell your agist remark has to do with the topic either???
Dick, maybe if you revoke their tax cuts that will speed along your hopes of the legacy carriers going bankrupt???
Wow I can see it now flying from Seattle to London on Southworst with only 10 stops along the way on their cattle call boeing 737's
Sheesh!
[ January 28, 2005, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: MarinerFan ]
dcbulgefreak
Jan 29 2005, 12:15 PM
I'd rather swim to Europe than take Southwest. ;-)
Their employees may be happy, and working for lower wages, but that does not make them a better airline for the flyer. There's nothing more miserable than being on a 3 hour flight in a middle seat, sandwiched in between 2 large people. Thats what happens when you get a full flight, and have the misfortune of getting a high number plastic card that leaves you in the last batch to board the plane. (I am assuming they still don't do assigned seats)
I showed up 75 minutes prior to boarding at BWI once a few years back, and still ended up with like number 113. Never again!
kalabro
Jan 29 2005, 01:40 PM
dcbulge, I understand why you hate flying Southworst, or, as I call them "The Cattle Car in the Sky." And yes, they still do that stupid get-a-card-with-a-huge-ass-number, which means you'll likely be sitting in the tail section of the plane sandwiched between a drunkard and a fundie.
Terry in Oaktown
Jan 29 2005, 08:34 PM
Kalabro, DCbulge, believe me I understand! While I normally don't fly Southwest, their prices are reasonable. Of course, if I'm only flying from Oakland to L.A. or to Vegas, then Southwest would be ideal. If I'm going across country to Florida or New York, forget it, I'm taking one of the bigger carriers. I can only sit in their tight seats for so long but never for a long flight across country!
canmark
Apr 20 2005, 06:52 AM
USAirways in
talks with AmericaWest on a possible merger.
chai-inNJ
Apr 20 2005, 08:39 AM
I used to fly with US Airways from Newark, NJ to Nashville, TN. In the reservation, I should depart from Newark 09:20 am, transfer in Pittsburgh and arrive in Nashville 12:05 pm. Anyway, I horribly arrive in Nashville at "15:30" and they change my transfer airport to Charlotte without any proper reasons. In the return flight from Nashville to Newark, I gotta transfer in Pittsburgh. This seemed to be on-time. But the pilot announced that we could take off a little bit late because this flight would take only 49 minutes. Lastly, after the pilot received the message from EWR that this flight couldn't land if we took off from Pittsburgh at that time and the flight had to be delayed for 2 hours again.
----- FOR ME, NO US Airways again -----
William1865
Apr 20 2005, 10:48 AM
QUOTE
kalabro:
dcbulge, I understand why you hate flying Southworst, or, as I call them \"The Cattle Car in the Sky.\" And yes, they still do that stupid get-a-card-with-a-huge-ass-number, which means you'll likely be sitting in the tail section of the plane sandwiched between a drunkard and a fundie.
I flew Southwest over the summer and they had groups - A, B and C. You were assigned a trip depending on when you checked in. Of course, I flew from BWI to Orlando, so half the plane was kids, and they got to board first anyway so they and their filthy parents got all the good seats. Overall I liked it though.
Right now Delta has to be the most expensive airline ever. Every fare I check Delta's comes in highest. Weird.