Make your picks on who will win the first round games.

I think the Vikings will win... oh wait, they just got beat by the Cardinals and will be home for the playoffs. So sorry.

Love to rub it in!!!!

You just lost to the worst franchise in pro sports!

~Coyote (in a little bit of a prickish mood)

I think the most lopsided game of the divisional playoffs will be Carolina-Dallas (even if ABC did schedule it for the 8PM ET Saturday primetime game since "America's Team" is participating, even if they won't be playoff participants for long )....the Cowboys may have THE worst offense of any team to make the playoffs in the past 20 years and considering they're facing Carolina's tough defense, Parcell's boys will be lucky to score 10 points....Indy and Tennessee should come out victorious but I think the Seattle-Green Bay contest will be a lot closer than many "experts" think, especially since Holmgren knows Brett Favre's tendencies better than any coach in the league.

I posted my Week 17 thoughts, along with my wirld card picks

Jim, I have to register a bit of a protest with your comment that the Eagles backed into home field this year. Last year they lost their finale but backed in because someone lost. This year, they won the final game. If you win the final game, to me you didn't back into it.

Backed in because they needed a team to lose. They had the advantage, lost it at home, then got it back only when the Rams lost.

Sh*thawks are huge underdogs, other underdogs this week were the Saints vs. Dallas, Arizona vs. the Vikes, and Detroit vs. St. Louis. The last 5 years or so in the NFL, its the last thing or team you expect to do it that does. The Sh*thawks have played a real game vs. the Niners on Saturday, The Pack played Denver's practice team Sunday, I think this gives Seattle an advantage of being better prepared mentally, Holmgren already knows Favre and Green, Green will probably fumble at the worst time, and Favre has already had his glory moment this season. The Sh*thawks have something to prove, I see them jumping out to a big lead like 28-3, then almost blowing it but holding on 28-24.

Nov 23, 2003

Cowboys 24
Panters 20

I'm still trying to figure out how this all works -- but I think I heard that the Eagles will play the Cowboys if they defeat Carolina -- otherwise the match-up is Eagles-Packers.

GO COWBOYS!

I knew you'd come around!
GO COWBOYS!

The Packers scare me. The Cowboys will scare me in a couple years.

The lowest seed left will play the Eagles. The Cowboys are the lowest.


( Long pause to let that sentence sink in. wink )


So if the Cowboys win, they will play the Eagles. If they lose, the Eagles play the Packers or Seahawks.

[ December 29, 2003, 07:46 AM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]

they re-seed after the first round ... with the Eagles being the top seed, they would play the lowest seeded Wild Card winner, and since Dallas is the 6th seed, a win by them over Carolina would make them the lowest seeded Wild Card, if the Panthers win, then Philly would get the Sea-GB winner

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what y'all think Indy fixed in the last 8 days that will allow them to stop a well-rested Denver running game . . .

Doesnt matter there MD, let them all play this weekend and beat eachother up.. let the chips fall where they may...

NCH, I'm trying to figure out as well how everyone here thinks IND has come up with a cure for the DEN running game in a matter of a couple of days. 31-17 and 123 QGriff yards at the RCA dome was no fluke. The Colts gave up 99 yards to Domanick Davis yesterday and almost got beat by the Texans so one can't say the Colts are peaking at the right time.

Well using this logic...

The seahawks also backed into the playoffs, hoping for other teams to win. So, they stink and dont deserve it.

The packers also backed into the playoffs.. praying for the cardz to beat the vikes. So they stink and dont deserve it.

Doesnt mean squat at how you get in... just that you get in.

They won't and Denver will win, further cementing Manning's legacy as a QB who can't win in the playoffs.

How can you root for the broncs after the ribbing you took from the drunk?

Because in all common sense, they're likely to beat Indy. Plus, I want the Broncos and Chiefs to play again... so I can rub the drunk's face in it after the Chiefs win!

"Backing in" doesn't mean I think a team stinks. But for the second consecutive year the Eagles blew a chance at controlling home field late in the season, than got help. They didn't take advantage last year and we'll see if this year is any different. That's the point I was making.

I don't like these poll thingies. I like to see who everyone picked so that they can get the proper amount of praise/scorn after the games.

Indy to beat Denver, barely. I'm not sure about Plummer as a big game QB and Peyton HAS to win a playoff game sometime, right? Right? Plus, the Colts are my All-Lust team: Manning, Vanderjagt, Stokely, Nelson. Woof.

Is Steve McNair being held together with wire and glue? I can't stand the Ravens, so I'd love to see them get bounced but it's going to be tough. Our friend JP was dreading this matchup for his Titans.

The Pack is Back (Again). They are on a roll and Brett Favre will NOT let them lose at Lambeau to the Seahawks. I'm going to be sick of the "Holmgren goes back to Lambeau" hype by about Thursday.

Please, Carolina, bounce the Cowboys out. PLEASE?!?! I'm sick of the Parcells hype and just want *cough* America's team *cough* to go away. Drew Bledsoe in Dallas next year? Don't do it Drew! They're the Vortex of Evil in American pro sports! Save your soul while there's still time!

Just cause Denver won 2 weeks ago does not mean that they will next week. Teams that lose to another near the end of the year have a history of beating them that next week. like Saints/Rams in the 2000 season.

Also Lions beat the Rams yesterday does that mean they'd beat them same situation next week. No. Indy I think had a bad game and will beat Denver this weekend.

Be careful what you wish for bub.

If the previous game had been competitive, bujeff, I'd agree. It wasn't and was much worse than the score indicated. Denver, WITHOUT Portis, held the ball for 45 minutes! This time around, the Broncos will have Portis back. I don't think Indy can stop the Broncos running game unless they completely sell out to stop it. If they completely sell out to stop the run, Plummer is good enough to find Smith or Lelie or Sharpe or McAffrey to make them pay.

I'm sure the Colts will have far bigger problems (the pressure of having to try to win a playoff game, which is not Tony Dungy's or Peyton Manning's strong suit) than simply stopping Portis.

Meanwhile, I think Dungy will have to make a lot of defensive adjustments to stop or slow down Denver's running attack. I think the recievers aren't as dangerous as Husker does. The Colts had a bad game against a desperate team, plain and simple.

Which brings up the question, based on eye candy alone, what results are people hoping for. (As a Pats fan, my only football related hope is to see the Ravens eliminated).

Indy-Denver: I'll take Denver here in a squeaker. While JimAllen's lineup of Manning Vanderjagt Stokely and Nelson is fine (not to mention Hunter the Punter, the Broncos counter with Jake Plummer, Easy Ed McCaffrey, Ashley Lelie, Jason Elam, and Micah Knorr. Danny Kannell's on the bench too. Man for man, I might prefer some of the Colts (Vanderjagt over Elam, for example), but McCaffrey swings a close one to Denver in my view.

Titans-Ravens: I hate the Ravens because they harbor a murderer on their roster, their coach is a prick, and I think they're the only team that could beat the Pats. But they do have a serious eye candy edge on the Titans. Kyle Boller and Chris Redman, Matt Stover, Dave Zastudil, Wade Richey and Todd Heap. the Titans have an ancient, not-hot kicker (Gary Anderson), receiver Eddie Berlin, LB Rocky Calmus, back-up QB Jason Gesser, and P Craig Hentrich.

Seahawks-Packers: The Packers have Favre, which makes this a slam dunk. But they also have ryan Longwell and Josh Bidwell, one of the hottest P-K combos in the league and backup QB Doug Pederson. Hawks have only Hasselbeck and Trent Dilfer. Their punter is the old, heavy Tom Rouen. Give me the Pack.

Boys-Panthers: I'll take Delhomme over Anthony Wright any day. But Panthers also have TE Marco Battaglia, K John Kasay, and backup QB Chirs Weinke. For the boys, Cundiff/Gowin give them a very hot P/K combo, but that's it. So Panthers it is.

Given my druthers, I'd switch out the AFC pairings so that Denver and Indy could each advance another round.

I don't think so. They allowed an average of 123 yards per game rushing over the season, and the only playoof-bound team in the AFC that was worse against the run was the notoriously porous KC defense. Indy also gave up more rushing td's than any other team in the AFC. Indy gave up an average of 21 ppg, worst of all AFC playoff teams (in fact, only Oakland, San Diego, Cincinnati and Houston gave up more points per game than the Colts).

Manning is awesome -- I don't buy the "he can't win the big one" tag that people seem anxious to slap on him. But I don't know if he can score enough points against playoff caliber defenses to overcome all the points his own barely adequate defense will allow, this year.

Defense wins championships.

Ok, please tell me a big game he has EVER won... at indy... at Tenn... i'll wait...

I dont know what your considering a "big game", but that Monday Night comeback vs. Tampa Bay was pretty impressive, might be the game that set last year's Super Bowl champs on their downward spiral.

How about the 1997 SEC Championship game? H brought the Vols back from 20-7 down.

True, Tennessee lost to Nebraska in the Orange Bowl, but even had they won, Michigan would have been national champs. And the Vols defense gave up 534 yards to the Cornhuskers. Jesus couldn't have won the game for the Vols with the defense giving up that much.

(incidentally, that Orange Bowl featured both Ahman Green and Jamal Lewis).

[ December 29, 2003, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Skiguy ]

Sorry there kids...

How many cracks did he have to BEAT FLORIDA and play for a natl champ? if memory serves me correctly his team had quite a few cracks at playing for the big game, but always failed.

He's yet to win a playoff game. Until he wins a game that counts, he's over rated in my book.

Just like the Fat man... until he wins the NFC he doesnt get my full respect. No matter how many regular season games you pull out.

Nothing like moving the goalposts, PhillyFan. First you challenged us to name a single big game he's won. We came up with a couple, without thinking too hard. Now you say, no respect until he wins in the playoffs.

That time will come, mark my words. What will it be then? No respect until he wins the superbowl? By that measure, neither Jim Kelly nor Dan Marino are deserving of your full respect.

I'm not sure how Dan, Jim, and Peyton have the strength to go on without your respect. . . I guess they'll just have to muddle through. Any of them are free to cry on my shoulder about it.

I'd be more impressed with Manning and the Colts if they hadn't followed up that win at Tampa with a poor performance, losing at home to Carolina. Or if they hadn't lost to Jacksonville. Or if they hadn't lost at home to New England despite having the ball at the one in the final seconds. Or if they hadn't been routed at home by Denver. Or if they hadn't struggled to beat Buffalo and Houston.

Until the Colts have some playoff success, both Manning and Dungy are going to have to stay on the hot seat.

On that "defense wins championship" thing: I don't have a link handy, but I read a column that discussed this. It seems that the trend over the last decade-plus is, it's the teams that can score almost at will that win. Having a defense isn't enough anymore. Teams like the 2000 Ravens and 2002 Buccaneers are an anomaly.

Now Hold up...

Manning at TN, i'll need help from a hot babe on this.. but didnt FLORIDA always beat this guy?

Didnt TN win the natl champ the year AFTER manning left?

My point is this, i'm not an SEC fan, but from what i remember TN was always on the doorstep of actually getting play to for the "big game" but they always got beat..

The big game in college wasnt the second best bowl game.. it was the game that would have sent you to the best bowl game.

Ummmm....Remember Rams-Patriots? The Rams that year could score at will. The Pats had an ok offense, and a sterling defense. Guess who won. That's three years in a row. Not to metion the years of NFC dominance in the 80's and early 90's; almost all of those champions were noted more for their defense than their offense.

And on the Indy loss to the Pats earlier this year, you can hardly blame Manning. Without him, they're not on the 1 yard line at game end with a chance to win. The defense gave up a shitload of points to the Pats, remember?

[ December 29, 2003, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: Skiguy ]

Ha. Ha. Ha. They played the 7-9 Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Are you f**king kidding me? The Buccaneers were on a spiral long before that game. Can you say "smoke and mirrors"?


From an SEC publication: ...Heisman "wanna-be" Peyton Manning and forced two interceptions, which helped Peyton achieve the honor of being the first Tennessee QB to loose four straight to the Florida Gators.

Dude, Tee Martin did more than Peyton Manning at Tennessee.

1999 - Lost 16-19 to Tennesse
2000 - Lost 17-23 to Miami
2001 - Lost 00-41 to NY Jets

If any of you are on this bandwagon, get off before this weekend, because it's doomed to crash and burn. My hope - that Vanderjagt misses the game winning field goal a'la Gary Anderson. God, I would love that.

[ December 29, 2003, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: coyoteugly ]

I think someone got up on the "cranky" side of the bed this morning... you probably should have had a glass of the long islands there buddy...

However, thanks you for the Manning stats... he was able to win those lower tier bowls tho... so that's GREAT for TN fans.... or do i mean GATOR FANS!

[ December 29, 2003, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: PhillyFan ]

Talk about revisionsit history! The Bucs were 2-1 and had allowed only 1 total TD in their games; their total points margin was 47-22; so much for being on a spiral. Manning hung 38 points on them, including 31 in the fourth quarter and OT.

I'm a huge Manning fan, both for his play on the field and the way he conducts himself off. He does have something to prove regarding playoff games and needs to win to be considered great.

But those who somehow try and spin that he's at fault for past big game losses must think he also plays defense and special teams. It wasn't Manning that allowed the Dolphins to come back from 14 in the 2000 playoffs, giving up 200+ yards to Lamar Smith. And in the same game, it wasn't Manning who missed the game-winning field goal in OT.

One sign of Manning's ability: If the Colts offered him free to any of the other 31 teams in exchange for their QB, how many would NOT trade in a second. Two, maybe three teams? He's had an MVP-caliber year.

[ December 29, 2003, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Jim at Outsports ]

Generally, I agree with you re Manning. The one glaring exception -- he sat on that female trainer's face at Tennessee, then defamed her in a book. Now, I'd've paid a lot of money to swap places with her in that training room , but she didn't want to rim his sweaty ass.

How do you explain TN winning the natl champ right after manning left college? dang must be a fluke.

Let's see QB's i'd rather have in the playoffs over him... mcnair, brady, mcnabb, farve...

So perhaps in the regular season you take Manning, but when the chips are on the line.. him and his teams dont do well, they never have. It's a proven fact.

Until he wins in the playoffs he will always have this stigma.

Yeah, pretty much. In Manning's final year his team lost by 3-4-10 and they scored at least 21 in each of them. Not a bad output. The following year only twice did the Vols D allow more than 21, an only 14 and 16 in the SEC final and Sugar Bowl. Contrary to what you may think, a QB does not by himself win a title. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl. Dan Marino did not. Jeff Hostetler won one. Dan Fouts did not. Must be a fluke.

You also made my point, picking 4 teams (out of 31) that might choose to stick with their guy. I said 2-3. The guy is an elite QB in the league and there's no denying it. I agree he has to win in the playoffs to be labeled an all-timer.

Jim, I love it. I absolutely love it. We're all heap to rain individual praise on Peyton for his MVP-caliber regular season... but when he loses in the playoffs we start hearing the "One guy does not win the game for you and one guy does not lose it for you" quotes.

How can you have it both ways?

With 29 votes cast, Indy and Tennessee are leading by nearly 2 to 1 margins. Only 3 voters are giving Seattle a chance vs. Green Bay. And only the Dallas-Carolina appears "close" in the polling (Carolina leads 18-11).

For the record, I'm taking Indy over the Broncos, but I really expect this one to be close, and won't be surprised if the Broncos triumph. I think Tennessee is simply too much for the Ravens to deal with, and home field advantage goes out the window in this one.
As for the NFC, I also view Green Bay as unstoppable now that Favre has a personal mission to inspire him. Playing for the memory of his father is the biggest intangible any team will enjoy in the postseason, and I won't be surprised if this factor carries GB all the way to the NFC title game.
I was very torn on the Dallas-Carolina game, and the closer nature of public opinion bears that out. I'm picking Dallas, but am very uneasy about it. True, Dallas has looked terrible down the stretch. But Carolina is a bigger enigma, IMHO.

Ummmmm, because it's not "having it both ways." You always want the best quarterback you can get for the money, but quarterbacks can't play defense, they don't run block, they can't kick.

Fact is, all but 3 teams in the league, four at most, would ditch their current QB for Manning faster than I'd go down on him (which is pdq). Put Manning on the Ravens, for example, and they might be unstoppable.

Indy lost 4 games in the regular season. In two of them, NE and Denver, the Colts gave up 38 and 31 points. When your D gives up that kind of scoring, it'd be hard for any team to win (and yet, in the NE game, thanks almost solely to Manning, they nearly did). In those two games, Manning threw just one interception, so all the opponents' scoring, all 69 points of it, was due to defensive incompetence.

If you doubt that Manning will, given the proper support from his defense, one day win a playoff game or 12, then you're a pretty poor judge of talent. Which might explain why no NFL team is paying you to evaluate football talent.

By your standards, Dan Marino was a failure, which just goes to show that your standard is a pile of horse dung.

[ December 30, 2003, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: Skiguy ]

OH, i get it now.. ya'all just defend him cause you wanna suck on his big toe.. yeah, that's cool.

I just find it funny how you can deny that Manning has NEVER won a big game. None in the playoffs... None at TN. Infact, TN won their natl champ the year after he left. Now, you can say what you want about who graduated and who didnt, but the makeup of the team had to be quite similar.... they didnt magically turn into a natl champ team overnight. If anything, after manning left they should have taken a step backwards if he was truely a great QB. The only MVP award he's ever gotten was from GJ and Gators.

You can tout all the games in the regular season you want, but at the end of the day if you cant win in the playoffs... you suck. Kelly and Marino, they may have not won the biggest prize of them all.. but they never crumbled in the playoffs. However, both of their legacies will be for NOT winning the big game... How do you think elway would have been looked at, great QB who could never pull off the big one... then he won.

If i gotta win one big game in the playoffs... gimme Trent Dilfer over manning any day.

Same thing goes for Dungy.. Look at his playoff record. He sucks in the post season.

Are you a poor little bitter Manning suck-up with a schoolgirl crush....

It's not having it both ways??? You have got to be kidding me. You are heaping praise on Manning for his MVP caliber season, showering this guy with praise for only losing 4 games all year, and then thowing blame directly on the defense for their losses.

If you are going to give him all this praise/credit for the wins this year, you gotta look in his direction when they lose. And looking at his 3 playoff losses... Where was the great Manning offense last year against the Jets when, umm, they didn't score? Or why couldn't the great Manning win against Tennessee when the defense held them to 19 points... or against Miami, when the defense only gave up 23?

By the way, Dan Marino WON playoff games (unlike your Manning). I never said he was a failure. You're making implications that are just plain false.

QB's I would rather have then Manning:

McNair
Green
Plummer
Brady
McNabb
Vick
Favre

Let's see, what do they all have in common? Could it be playoff victories?

Manning will probably be available for you to go down on him after the game this weekend...

And by the way, which team is paying you to evaluate talent?

Since my Vikings threw their playoff chances away, I will be rooting for a Chiefs/Rams Superbowl. I don't think that will happen, but that's what I want. I'm a Vikes fan...we don't believe in defense.

For Wild Card Weekend, I'm picking Indy, Tenn, Dallas and Green Bay.

Startin the good MOJO already, thanks sting sting

Stinger, what's the sentiment amongst Vikings fans about Denver/Shanahan not fielding their best team against Green Bay? I mean, you guys still could have got in despite the loss in Arizona if the Broncos had beat the Packers.