Jury rules for non-PC flight attendant

Oh. My. God.

You know, once I was on a plane and there was this flamboyant male flight attendant and when I asked for a Diet Coke he said, "Is Diet Pepthi alright?" I'm SO going to sue Delta because I felt his lisping was directly mocking my gayness. It was so distressing to me that I shat my pants -- twice.

Honey, don't waste your time by trying to sue Delta. The flight attendant was just being his plain old flamboyant self. He meant you no harm. I am glad to see more gay guys doing the job these days. They are a refreshing alternative to the stereotypical heavily made-up bleached blonde, big breasted flight attendants of yesterday.

[ January 22, 2004, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Nascar007 ]

I heard about this suit when it was filed. I'm surprised the judge let it go to a jury. Too bad for the plaintiffs that Omarosa from The Apprentice wasn't on the jury.

Perhaps veering off topic, but none-the-less, talking about in-flight service.

Flying back to Melbourne from holidays with my partner New Years eve just past. A 6 hour flight including a 2 hour stop-over. Re-boarding after the stop-over, about 6.00pm in the evening, we sit down. We're flying business class. we're both tired. We're the only paying passengers in business, the rest are off-duty attendants. And then, the male attendant (who obviousbly bats for our team) had the audacity, after serving his colleagues with complimentary drinks and ignoring my partner and I and, after other colleagues sat down, serving them with complimentary drinks and again ignoring my partner and I, and after my partner says "excuse me, we would like a drink as well" turns to my partner and has the audacity to say "you're excused" in a very snippy voice (after all we had just disturbed his socialising) turns his back, says "in a minute" and then turns back to us and asks if we would like a drink :mad: .

Needless to say, both my partner and I are fuming by this stage and maybe, we would have excused his behaviour (although maybe not) if he was in fact busy, but he was having a good natter with his friends. Needless to say, halfway through the flight, my partner lodged a complaint with the head purser, who said that such behaviour was inexcusable in business class (we in fact said that such behaviour was inexcusable regardless of which class you fly), and as we landed, she presented us with a nice bottle of red to see in the New Year - which we promptly drunk at a New Years Eve party in Melbourne after consuming numerous vodka shots - but then that's another story.

[ January 22, 2004, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: Mixie ]

I don't understand how this is a discrimination case? What service were they denied? Didn't they get a seat? Didn't they get the Southwest peanuts? I mean, what was denied? I don't get it. I also don't get how singing a childhood rhyme with words to expel the racial history is a bad thing. I thought it was good to exercise these bad words and continue to still have the rhyme to sing. It's like saying we can't call them flight attendants because that'll remind people that they used to be called stewardesses and they're apparently not.

A jury with some common sense. eek! I'm glad that these women didn't get a cent. Grow up ladies! :mad: If the flight attendant had used a racial slur I could understand but this was ludicrous IMHO.

The plaintiff Fuller better be careful because she's referring to herself and others as "blacks" which sounds a lot like a racial slur. She might want to watch her language.

You know, as a child we used to say, 'catch a rabbit by it's toe, if it hollers don't let go..." isn't that what you said?

[ January 22, 2004, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: shore ]

LOL

And too bad they didn't hire Johnny Cochrane to represent them!

A seizure? Because of a nursery rhyme? I'm sorry, Ms. Fuller, there's a ton of problems with institutional racism in the US justice system. You and your sister clutching your pearls because a young flight attendant used a rhyme that YOU found used to contain a different meaning doesn't equate with disparity in powder v. crack cocaine sentencing laws, to give just one example.

This country is insane.

[ January 22, 2004, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]

YES! That's how I learned it. So we can't say eenie, meenie, anymore?

We say "... catch a tiger by the toe," although I had heard the n-word version--maybe 25 years ago.

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Now that I think about it, I've also heard it as "... catch a monkey by the toe. If he hollers, let him go..."

[ January 22, 2004, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: canmark ]

You know... we sang the same tune in Africa, but we sang, "catch a fish and let it go". It's interesting to read all the other variants of this song. Where did it originate from anyway? The British? :confused:

This case is ludicrous. The Blacks and Mexicans are always screaming racism. That flight attendant was just doing her job and was trying to add a little humor to the flight. She meant them no harm.

[ January 22, 2004, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: Nascar007 ]

I always heard it as "catch a tiger by the toe, if it hollers, let it go." The first time I heard the "correct" version was when Maynard in Pulp Fiction said it, and then I thought he was making up his own lyrics.

I was gonna start a thread on this, but as usual I'm about 12 hrs behind. Being nocturnal has a few drawbacks.

Jim, the "seizures" bit was what really irked me. I mean come on. A seizure? That gal needs some prescription meds if she's so sensitive. I've had strangers verbally assault me, but the most that's happened is me shaking with anger, not falling to the floor and writhing/twitching.

I'm all for being considerate and kind, and what that flight attendant did, while kinda childish, was far from hurtful.

[ January 22, 2004, 09:02 PM: Message edited by: gayhawk ]

Where do you get off with your blanket statement, huh? It's about as racist as they come. "The Blacks and the Mexicans"...are you black or Mexican? Have you experienced racism? I bet not. As I mentioned to board members on this list last winter,, although I have a graduate degree, excellent credit, and exemplary references, I had to deal with racist WHITE IMMIGRANT rentors in Chicago (a city that is almost 40% black), and I seriously thought about filing a complaint with the city, since denying residents the right to see apartments, demanding pay stubs (yes, I had this happen), etc., are all against the law. I have dealt with enough racism in my life to fill a large volume and it's a good thing that I value my life and the lives of others, that I value all human beings and have self control, and want to be a productive member of society, because there are many times when I could have gone off live and the results wouldn't have been pretty. From being called "n--" by some white homeless person in New York, to having some stupid white person yell "ni--r" out the window of a car in Cambridge, Massachusetts, or seeing a bunch of drunken white Irish idiots after a St. Pat's Day revel scream "f**king n--r" at me at Andrew Station, to having white colleagues go out of their way as to hire less qualified white people (instead of a black person, or an Asian, or a Latino), and make elaborate excuses about it ("she's like my daughter," "she's got such potential"), to being denied jobs that were given to white people with fewer skills, education, etc., I can tell you buddy, nobody's always "screaming racism." Racism exists, it's widespread and unfortunately it can't go away soon enough. Maybe these women were overly sensitive--and yes, the hateful version of that nursery rhyme is STILL USED in some parts of this country, just like the "n--" word, by WHITE people against blacks, but to claim that people are "screaming racism" is just plain ignorant and stupid, and though I wasn't going to waste my time on you, I had to let you know how vile I think your comments are.

[ January 22, 2004, 09:02 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

I agree.


Now you're generalizing. Again.

Nascar, i see where your head is already.
as a black man i myself see both sides. the flight attendant probably was just trying to inject humor, but alot of insults are made in humor. she should really try to just stick to professionalism, its safer. the black ladies however stretched things a little to far. i mean they all but put words in the girls mouth and then screamed racism. that was wrong. If we as black people continue to make frivilous lawsuits such as this it only allows people like Nascar, to say what they do. it dilutes the validity of the real problem when real racism comes to light. I am however curious at the jury selection.

Gary

I had written something about Nascar's stupid statement but deleted it. Luckily Fantomas and Joe dealt with it.

I'll save you the trouble Nascar:

PC is out of control!!!

What an appropriate handle you've choosen for yourself.

I realize it's dragging this thread completely off basis, but I've been required to produce payment stubs as a prerequisite for renting every time I've rented an apartment. I've never heard it beening against the law, unless you mean requiring it of some renters but not all.

to pull the thread back toward (but not on) topic, i learned the rhyme as catch a tiger by the toe....

I learned the rhyme with the N word in the early-mid 60s ...my younger siblings learned it the better way. The old way was damned ignorant - guess it got handed down from kid to kid - ( no excuse) but most people younger than 45 propably didn't even know of the old version. I'm glad that the old racist crap is unacceptable to anyone with half a brain.

I learned it with Tiger. I would like to think the flight attendant had no idea it could be interpreted as a slur. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. It's unfortunate taxpayers funded such a trial. It dilutes real discrimination that does exist. I don't think courts should adjudicate hurt feelings and insults.

The jury selection is curious; however, the ladies' attorney signed off on it.

I never knew that it had racial connotations. I never heard it w/ the connotation until I was in my mid teens. I learned the rhyme w/ the word, "chicken."

Okay, did any of you read the book, "Little Brave Sambo?" My Mom has the racist version of the book. It was her favorite book growing up and, at the time, she had no idea that it was racist. She thought of it as another character in a book.

Like Copman, I've heard the rhyme with the "N word" replacing tiger. I don't feel that the flight attendant meant any harm by her comment. As a person of color, I do think the comment about "Blacks and Mexicans are always screaming racism" is a racist statement. But even with that comment made with everyone here to see, I'm not going to sue. So I guess that statement about Blacks and Mexicans is not true.

I learned it with "tiger" and then heard the "n**r" version at elementary school in the early 70s. My mother was appalled kids would still use the racist version, and it stopped being used very quickly after that because of intervention of the administration and teachers.

I am about as PC as anyone can get, and this lawsuit is ridiculous! There was absolutely no notice of the customers' race, nor did the attendant use the line that was once racist but has been changed. It reminds me of when one of DC Mayor Anthony Williams' assistants (who is white) used the term "niggardly" in a conversation with colleagues (including some black colleagues). One of the black colleagues became very angry and stormed out of the meeting, not knowing that the word means "stingy" and has no relation (other than sounding similar) to the "n-word." This caused a huge bruhaha, and the assistant had to resign, and then was re-hired when the backlash bruhaha started.

Couldn't the women have told the flight attendant - "you know, that was once a racist rhyme, and you may want to be careful using it in the future"? I mean, have we lost the ability to be part of a community here?

It's a frivolous lawsuit. I hate to say it, but thse two women are looking for monetary gain--- yeah, seizure my ass.

Not to take this thread totally off track, but Southwest Airlines has built its reputation on its wackiness, and part of that is allowing their flight attendants to make jokes on the intercom. They feel this brings a lighter feel to the cabin and makes the flight more enjoyable. I think sometimes their jokes are too silly, but I recall a flight from San Francisco to Phoenix with a really cute male flight attendant who I was sure batted on our team, and he was cracking up the entire cabin with his jokes. It was a fun flight.

Batboy, you are correct. Southwest is the most informal of all the airlines, from their demeanor to how they dress. I don't know of any other airline that allows its flight attendants to wear polo shirts and khaki shorts. Sometimes they even have sing-a-longs with everyone in the cabin.

Did you have someone demand them as soon as you walked through the door to view the apartment? Obviously I've had to produce pay stubs for everything from renting apartments to purchasing a home. I mean, I've been renting since I was 21, and in all those years, it wasn't until I was at the point of doing a credit check or actually signing papers that I had to produce this kind of information. And none of my white colleagues who rent in Chicago had to go through this. But perhaps they were just the "exceptions."

Ah yes, "Little Brave Sambo," whose actual title was "The Adventures of Little Black Sambo" (because Sambo was brave, but the original author, Helen Bannerman, especially wanted you to know he was BLACK.) And given that "sambo" was a racially derogatory term used against blacks in the 19th century, in Britain and America...but, hey, no harm was meant really, right? Enslave 'em, lynch 'em, kill 'em outright, no harm there, right?

A Brooklyn company, contracting with a new artist, actually republished this book this year.

NY Newsday: Brooklyn publisher ignites firestorm

What's next, reprints of offensive books against the Irish, or Nazi texts against Jews, or any of the violently anti-gay texts that have been produced over the years? No harm meant, the ______ are always screaming ______.

Okay, what does sambo mean?

How ironic that you would make such a generalization about Nascar007's stupid generalization.

I've seen this same comment written by others in these forums about Nascar007. I'm not defending him by any means, nor am I foolish enough to compare one's race to something as trivial as being a fan of a particular sport, but please take note that not all NASCAR fans are buffoons.

Thank you.

The two ladies may have had every right to be angered over the use of the rhyme. I can't really put myself in their shoes. However, I think CPT_Doom's suggestion for handling it would have been infinitely better and probably more effective than a frivolous lawsuit.

The lady claiming to have had seizures because of the rhyme reminded me of a story of my backyard neighbor lady: She had a nervous breakdown and wound up in the hospital from the stress of a fence on the one side of her yard being 16" over on her property. She was afraid that when she tried to sell the house (which she has no plans to do), that the 16" would somehow be common-lawed onto the neighbor's property. The fence had purposely been set at the beginning of a steep slope by the previous owners, and the neighbor had agreed to mow that 16" strip along with the rest of the slope that was part of his yard. Now that the fence has been moved at her neighbor's expense, the stressed-out lady struggles to mow and weed-whack 16" worth of the steep slope that her neighbor used to mow. No relevance to this topic, but some people get worked up over things that seem trivial to most of us.

[ January 23, 2004, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: maxallen ]

fantomas, I'm sorry to hear about the blatant racism that you've been subjected too. I was born and raised in Montana, which is probably about the place with the least diversity. The population is something like 90% white, 9% native american, 1% other. I now live in L.A. and love the diversity. However, I'm afraid that I will say something offensive unintentionally. I know the major terms/words that are offensive and I avoid those, but I think there are some others that people might find offensive. Although I don't think ignorance is a valid excuse for stupid comments, there is something to be said for lack of experience. I can't really pull the rest of the my thoughts together express them clearly other than to say this: some times a bad/stupid comment has no malicious intent, the person making the comment really "just doesn't know better" as cliche as it sounds.

Hey Stinger85, I hear where you're coming from. Look, we all say things that are offensive. But there's a difference in saying something that offends someone and you didn't intend it, and prejudice to the extent that you make gross categorizations about a huge and diverse group of people. Also, a lot of the terms people use could be laughed off, except that some people use them in such a hateful way, in a way that is meant to harm, or WHILE harming someone--physically, psychologically, etc., so perhaps I'd just say that this is where PC (not the Stalinist version, but the American one) comes from--it's really a plea to be sensitive to who people are. There are other people of color on here who've experienced racism too, I'm sure. Usually I laugh it off; I mean, I have colleagues who mistake me for another black man who is several inches shorter than me, with shorter dreads, who wears glasses, and is about a shade lighter. And I usually laugh it off--I mean, for some white people it really is hard to tell black people apart (even if we look nothing alike). (I don't have this problem with white people, or Asians or any other group--but I guess I've had to be more attentive all my life.) Anyways, it depends on the situation.

Also, my experience: people were quite friendly in the whitest state in the USA, Vermont. The most racist people I've ever encountered were in Boston, Massachusetts and St. Louis, Missouri.

Actually, it's an adaptation of a Spanish term, like "negro" (which of course means "black" in Spanish)

From the Merriam-Webster 1913 Dictionary:

Sam"bo, n. [Sp. zambo, sambo.] A colloquial or humorous appelation for a negro; sometimes, the offspring of a black person and a mulatto; a zambo.<-- deprecatory and impolite -->

E. Cobham Brewer 1810–1897. Dictionary of Phrase and Fable. 1898.
 
Sambo: A pet name given to anyone of the negro race. The term is properly applied to the male offspring of a negro and mulatto, the female offspring being called Zamba. (Spanish, zambo, bowlegged; Latin, scambus.)