yup it happened again, but this time it was me...

i was on a date with the guy i am seeing and we decided to go down to the beach we went to a few days prior called bird rock in san diego a little after 11ish PM. some other people were there when we showed up but it was all very dark and barely anyone was around. we sat down on a rock and were just holding hands and had our arms around each other. we kissed some when people werent really around us. some of the people who we saw at the beach started to make there way towards us and walked behind us. i remember hearing one of them comment about us being gay as we sat closely. it was 4 teenager/college students who were drinking carrying there 12 pack around with them.

after they had passed, a few minutes had gone by and 2 of them were walking back towards our way, but they were up on some rock formations behind us. one of them said, "hey do you guys wants some beer?" we replied no thanks we are fine. then they came around and were walking closer to the front of us. in my head i was thinking geeez, can these drunks guys just go somewhere else and leave us alone. and when they were like 5 feet away from us one asked, "hey are you guys fags?" we replied, "uhhhhh yeah" then one of them just started throwing punches. at this point it was just chaos. one guy was attacking the guy i was with and the other was just standing at his side. the one throwing his fists swung at me and hit me, but my date was getting most of it. this was probably because he was starting to fight back and i was not. i was dodging and just trying to figure out what was going on and trying to get us out of the situation. they were screaming "leave faggots" and i kept saying "we are" trying to get us away and safe. finally we got out of there and ran up to the car and left. my date was very swollen and bleeding. we drove straight to his sisters house to clean him up and figure out if we needed to go to the hospital. we did and it ended up that he had a broken nose and also had to get 2 stitches by one of his eyebrows. all i had was a swollen and mildly cut eyebrow.

the entire night i was so upset with myself wishing i had done more or was able to defend myself and the guy i was with. but not fighting was just how i reacted. neither my date or i had ever been in a fight before. and the reason why i am posting this is...

YOU ALL MUST BE CAREFUL.

it is so disgusting what happened and i would never want it done to anyone. we got off lucky that night. they could have had beer bottles and not cans, they could have had brass knuckes, knifes, bats, there could have been more guys. the whole situation could have been worse. hello, death! it has happened a number of times in the past and luckily me and my buddy are healing. im already better, just slight pain when i touch my eyebrow but my friend is still all blue and stitched. we will heal. but we will now ALWAYS BE CAREFUL with how we act in public and also be more wise with our decision of where to hang out. i seriously will never let a friend leave to go to their car alone again. and i will take self defense classes so i knwo what to do if it were to ever ahppen again. dont think you are invisible, or you are big or something so they wont attack. i am 6'2 180, and my date is 6'5. we are both college athletes and are usually the biggest guys when we go out to "gay scenes." i just want this to be a lesson for all of you as well and to know that this can happen to you anytime anwhere.

when i came out to my father a year ago, this was the biggest thing he was worried about. GAY BASHING. i knew it was something to think about, but was always thinking, yeah yeah, i dont know of it happening to anyone i know and all the people i know are cool with it these days. hell, everyone loves will and grace. but the truth is that it is still a small population, and even if it wasnt, there will always be people out to get us. i just hated having to call my father from the hospital telling him we were attacked and he asked "was it because you are gay", and i said "yes."

PLEASE BE CAREFUL EVERYONE.

[ August 17, 2005, 06:40 AM: Message edited by: m1 ]

Wow...I am so sorry that happened to you man. I hope you and your friend are recovering well and that it never happens to you again. I don't even know you and I'm pissed right now because ignorance like that just really gets me so angry. What you said is true though. If you are gay and affectionate in public you have to be careful, especially at night, especially in remote places. I volunteer as a gay youth counselor and I tell all of them to be aware of their surroundings. I tell them to be themselves but to not forget that there are evil, bigoted people out there who get off on stuff like that. Knowing how to defend yourself helps. For defense measures I tell them that a good weapon is their keys. I tell them that if they are ever in a situation where they are jumped that if they can get to their keys they should take a key, preferrably the biggest one, put it in between their index and middle finger and use that as a weapon. I'm 6'3 215lbs, played tennis since I was 5 so I have an athletic build and am in good shape but I'm no fool. When its one against possibly 2 or 3, or in your case, 2 against 4 it doesn't matter...like you said. You have to do what you have to do in getting out of the situation though and I know I can kick some ass. If someone is gonna try and bash me I'm goin down fighting cuz I would assume you are trying to kill me. Everyone is different though. You handled the situation the best you thought how. Don't let those ass****s make you second guess yourself and make you feel guilty for not doing more. The important thing is that you and your friend are still alive and the wounds will heal. Like you said...it could have been worse. Again...I'm sorry this happened to you and I'll say a prayer for you both.

sorry to hear about this, but why did I seem to miss teh part about calling the police and reporting these people?

Nobody deserves this, but if nothing happened to the attackers, nothing will stop it from recurring.

Originally posted by Itskinmdterp:

...Don't let those ass****s make you second guess yourself and make you feel guilty for not doing more. The important thing is that you and your friend are still alive and the wounds will heal. Like you said it could have been worse...

Originally posted by UH Coog:

sorry to hear about this, but why did I seem to miss teh part about calling the police and reporting these people?...

Both well said by Itskinmdterp & UH Coog. I too get disgusted to hear these stories. But it is reality. If you or your date were able to ID them and/or their license plate(s) I would HIGHLY encourage you to do it. Even if you can't. I would report it to the police anyway because it could be that this is not the 1st time it's happened there. And if it has then it could be that these thugs hang out there and/or have committed the same crime in the past. I also know that the San Diego police are VERY cool about our community's concerns & would not take this issue lightly nor blow it off.

As a gay person one becomes wiser especially to one's surroundings as we get older & experience such things. I, too, was in the same circumstance w/ someone I was dating many years ago. And now I pay attention to where I walk (especially at night) and where I am open in public about my sexuality. The perfect world would be able to express affection w/ someone we enjoy w/out ever fearing this type of incident. But right now we live in a very hostile society which sometimes includes acting out that hostility towards those who are marginalized by that very society. Don't worry I am a great believer in karma. Maybe not soon, but some day the thugs that attacked you guys will pay for the negative energy that they just put out there. Karma is just ike a boomerang. Trust me on this one. I've seen it happen.

Always remember to hold your head up high no matter what the circumstance! I too will pray for you both. I also hope that you and your date do not let this incident effect/taint your relationship especially if you guys had been building a foundation for something more serious. In fact I say let it bring you closer together & bond. Talk about it openly with one another. It'll be healing for the both of you.

[ August 17, 2005, 08:44 AM: Message edited by: SCTrojan ]

I'm sorry to hear about your experience--awful!

You should document the experience as best you can: write out everything you can remember, take photographs of your (and your friend's injuries), get a medical examination (family doctor or hospital), and go to the police and report this.

I'm sure this was a very traumatic experience... hopefully you can talk about it, and get support from friends and family to help you cope.

I am so sorry to hear this.

I agree with all the previous posts don't blame yourself and do report it to the police if you haven't.

While I have been threatened and intimidated in the past, I have been lucky never to have been physically attacked. There was one time where myself and several of my frieds were able to stop an attack. There were six of us walking back from a bar when we heard a commotion then the expletives. We ran to see what happened and saw four guys around 2 guys, one who was on the ground being kicked and another who was trying to put himself between them. When we got there it went from 4 against 2 to 8 against 4. The attackers didn't like the odds and left. We did report it to the police.

I bring this up because it also the importance of being aware of your surroundings. We were out at a bar and we knew we would have to park a distance away in a not so nice area, so we traveled in a pack, and we were walking along a busy well lit street. The two that were attacked parked closer, but in a back lot, they had to cut through an alley to get to it, the alley always had people hanging out in it drinking. The victims were new and just didn't know.

Size doesn't matter they had the upper hand because they knew what they were going to do, you were caught a little of guard, this just underlines the point of being aware. On a lighter note size doesn't always matter. Of the six guys I was traveling it two were over 6 feet and over 200 hundred pounds and well muscled. They would scare you if you were in an alley. But I know from experience that the attackers should have been more scared of the one guy I was travelling with, the 5'8" wiry guy who has a black belt and been in his share of bar fights, plus he was a drag queen that just lost a contest that night and was ready to punch something anyway. We actually had to hold him back once the attackers started backing off.

I am sorry to hear about your experience. I hope you and your date are well.

It is a far too common experience for gays everywhere. I too have been attacked even though I am 6' and fairly large, masculine, and muscular. It is a fact of life whether we like it or not.

If you are considering self defense classes, might I put in a word for taking a look at Shotokan Karate (SKA). Contrary to popular opinion Karate is ENTIRELY about self defense and trying to avoid a fight. It also has many aspects of training that are incredibly soothing and calming mentally. It is also fun and great exercise!

There is a very good Dojo in SD:

Encinitas, San Diego
Contact: Derek Greene
Tel: 858-755-4456 (h) or 858-755-9222 (w)
Email: itisystems@worldnet.att.net
WWW: www.redbutt.com/shotokan/
Notes: Practice Times are: Tue. and Thur. 6:30 - 8:15PM. Dojo is located at San Deguito Acadamy, 1/4 mile East of I-5 on Santa Fe Dr. in Encinitas Calif..

The group enjoys dual status as an SKA Dojo and a physical education course in the San Dieguito Adult Education Program.

If I can give you any further information, please do not hesitate to write.

Rob

So sorry to hear about this. I hope you both recover quickly. I have to echo what others said -- report it to the police and make sure you tell them to record it as a hate crime.

we did report the attack when we were at the hospital. right after we didnt call 911 or anything bc we didnt know exactly what the area was and just wanted to get out of their and to his sisters houe for safety. we did report it though.

Sorry to hear about you and your friend's experience. I hope you both recover very quickly. As the other posters have said, it is a good idea to report it to the police.

I think you did the best you could at that moment. Many people have it all planned out in their head but you don't really know how you're going to react until you are in the moment.

Thank you for sharing your experience. Because of you many more of us will be more careful and aware of our surroundings. Take care, and again, I hope you both feel better soon.

we did report the attack when we were at the hospital. right after we didnt call 911 or anything bc we didnt know exactly what the area was and just wanted to get out of their and to his sisters houe for safety. we did report it though.

In addition to reporting it to the police--and, as has been mentioned, the San Diego police are very good about the gay community's concerns--and documenting the incident through photos and medical records, you may want to notify the local paper that caters to our community, if for no other reason than to alert others as to what happened.

As has been written, you have no reason to feel guilty about your actions. You and your date did nothing wrong.

~Adam

Dear Swimmer22:
I share your emotions and wish to give you and your date my condolences in this very unfortunate incident.

After the Mathew Shepard case, one gay talk show host in the San Francisco area was quick to remind us that everyone (both straight and gay) should be cautious about their surroundings and the vulnerability of being assaulted. In fact, there are literally 1000's of violent (and potentially murderous) thugs roaming around (for example: the BTK Killer) and I would not go out in a secluded place at night. These days, the only place where I let my emotional guard down is at my office or in my home with someone I know well and I'm confident to sit back and relax with.

I also have the suspicion that the attackers in your case were probably under the influence of alcohol (and possibly drugs such as meth). In which case, they are ready assault just about anyone regardless of what they think of their victim's sexual orientation.

In addition, there seems to be a "high background level" of aggressive thinking and behavior in society these days (such as road rage) and I tend to keep a defensive mindset when I'm out in public.

My advice (for both straights and gays) is to hang out together in a safe place (well lighted and there are a lot of rational and civilized people around). The old saying "There's Safety In Numbers" has a lot of practical value.

Cheers and I hope you and your date can quickly recover from this physically & emotionally devastating incident.

The California Dolphin

Since the attackers were carrying a 12-pack with them it's obvious they were under the influence of alcohol. And it's equally obvious that they wouldn't have assaulted just anyone. They certainly wouldn't have asked "are you fags?" and yelled "Leave faggots" to a straight couple.

Hi swimmer, I hope you and your friend are doing well. And I also am truly sorry you, or anyone, has to go thru anything like that. I'll echo the others and say always know where you are and who's around, but I must also say, you said the two of you were showing affection..kissing, holding hands, etc... We, as a minority have to be careful, we're not at a place where we can freely show affection to a date/boyfriend, unless it's Pride day, or inside a bar. Please Please Please don't take what I'm saying as I'm saying you egged it on, because you in no way didn't, it sounds like if the gutless twerps had any incling of you being gay without the affection, they would have done something anyway. Just please be careful

-Billy

Since the topic of martial arts has come up, here's an interesting story about a music student that my mother and father knew in the 1960's.

Seems there were a bunch of attacks by a serial rapist on coeds in the Kansas City area. This particular music student was studying piano and organ.

And playing the organ is extemely demanding in terms of whole body coordination and precision movement. If you've ever seen an organist play one of Bach's Prelude & Fugues, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Out of concern for the attacks in the area, she took martial arts training. The combination of the skill as an organist plus training in martial arts made her into an unsuspectingly & extraordinary weapon.

Fortunately, she never had to use her training, but I would like to see what would have happened to the poor sucker who thought he could make an easy target out of her. I could imagine what the guy would have looked like after she performed a few lines of Bach's "Toccata & Fugue In D Minor" on his body eek! !

The California Dolphin

Dear Swimmer,
This is exactly the reaction that women have when we are sexually assaulted. What happened is NOT your fault and NOTHING you did was/is wrong.

I know that you probably know this "mentally". I also know that there is a disconnect between head and heart, as it were. I mean, I've been an active feminist for my entire LIFE but when I was sexually assaulted (by a doctor, during an exam) I felt that it must have been because of me. I knew in my head that was not true but felt that it still must have been because I'm a freak. And nearly 10 years later I still have that feeling.

So repeating to you may not help but I'm going to anyway. Those "men" are scum. You and your date were minding your own business and what happened to you is not your fault. NOTHING you could have done would have stopped them (unless maybe you were packing iron but then you'd be facing a murder rap). Please please try not to think that something you could have done would have made it not happen. (yeah, I wish I could apply these words to myself, so easy to say for someone else, isn't it?)

I hope your date heals up physically and that you both recover emotionally. I hope you don't live in fear of expressing your affection for one another. I would encourage you to make a police report, the fact that there are hospital records will help, if you feel comfortable with that. I don't know where you live. If you feel that the cops may make it worse then I would always respect your decision to not report it. You and your date are the ones who were attacked; no one else can tell you what to do or how to do it and above all how to feel.

Best to you both.

thank you ms. de blazer. yeah that is how i feel. i know i shouldnt and im trying not to, but i am 99% sure that if my date and i were not holding hands, sitting close, or kissing we would have not been attacked. so yes, there was something i could have done. but also on the other end, what i did wasnt wrong at all, so i shouldnt feel bad. but its hard not to especially when i look at my friends wounds and stiches.

and yes we did report it. the people at the hospital were all very helpful and didnt treat us bad bc we are gay. they were all very upset as well.

swimmer, I can't say how bad I feel for you - I've been there and I know how bizarre it is when you are recovering from such an attack (although to be honest I still don't know why I was attacked), particularly for your friend. To be in pain because of someone else's inability to be a decent human being simply SUCKS!

But I am pissed that anyone feels they have to censor themselves in public because of this kind of threat. Our ability to lead full and authentic lives shouldn't be limited by the lowest common denominator of our society, and I really wish you'd been able to take a baseball bat back to that beach and bash their f*cking skulls in (okay, so I've got some unresolved anger issues of my own to deal with).

It is situations like this that convince me it would be a good thing to have some version of and ACTUP-like group to respond. Imagine if we were able to generate a large number of gay guys and gals to head back to that beach the next night to perform a visible and intimidating "gay and lesbian safety patrol" and let the bashers know the next time there will be ramifications to their bullsh*t.

One of my favorite stories is of too idiot yahoos who came to DC years ago (I've only heard this second hand) and decided to bash some fags. They went to the center of gay life in DC - 17th street NW and attacked two guys coming out of JRs. Well, anyone who has been there knows that JRs has a wall full of windows on the side of the building, which offered a clear view of the attack in progress. Within seconds the bar emptied and a whole bunch of gay guys "restrained" the attackers until the police could arrive (apparently there were some minor injuries to the attackers when the attack was broken up - and the police chose to ignore them). When the police took the guys away they were protesting they should not be arrested, because they "only beat up some fags."

[ August 19, 2005, 07:06 AM: Message edited by: CPT_Doom ]

Swimmer, I'm glad you're okay. I can't tell you how upset I was when I read your post. I just hope everyone here is careful out there. For all the progress we think we've made, there's still ignorance and bigotry out there. Take care of yourself, swimmer. You and your friend are in my prayers!

Swimmer22, I hope you and your friend are o.k. now. It is times like this, that go completely against my Christian teachings, when I wish I were there with a huge gun so I could have mamed those idiots, perhaps permanently crippling them, so they would remember that evening the rest of their lives. Now I know that wouldn't have really solved the problem, but I just felt better typing the above sentence. Stupid shit has been said to me, thankfully nothing physical. Just remember, the karma train is a real bitch when it bits you in the ass. Those jokers are doomed to a life of bad karma. I hope they are caught, thrown in prison, and face a life of being an ass-slave to all the scummy inmates. It would be true poetic justice.

swimmer22, I'm sorry about what happened the both of you. I could just rehash what everyone else has said, but I just want you to know, you're in my thoughts and my prayers.

Swimmer, it may be true that if you were not holding hands etc. you would not have been attacked. But saying if you were not gay you would not have been attacked is just the same as my saying if I were not a woman I would not have been assaulted. We are what we are.
And it's not even true. I read of a man who was killed by gay bashers who mistakenly thought he was gay. (He was helping a blind friend to the restroom. His fiancee had to be left alone since she could not accompany them; to allay her nervousness since it was late at night he took her purse. Some thug sees a man with another man holding his arm, carrying a purse, calls him a queer and shoots him. But would it have been OK had he been gay? Hell, no!)

It’s an interesting position victims are put into after bouts like this. On the one hand we take the same reaction we do after putting our hand on a hot pan (ouch, don’t do that again) and on the other we must deal with weather we are willing to live a second-class, publicly invisible status. Adding to the fuel is the strong thread of “learn to fight back with formal training.” However, this too has drawbacks that have not yet been discussed. I.e. once you begin taking classes in response to a situation like this, you grow fixated on the fact that you were victimized. It is entirely different than going into Karate for the fun of the sport.

I was once physically threatened (i.e. death note left on my front door) and my response was to plant pepper spray bottles throughout the house and carry one on my keychain. When walking in public, I noticed that I was much more aware of potential threats (i.e. thugs and homophobes walking down the street) than I ever was. I found that as I walked past unsavory people I put my hand on the trigger in my pocket. When I heard a twig snap at night, I was again on the trigger. Essentially, I realized that I had become a victim. That I was continually stressed about when the next bout of (shall I say terrorism) would come. Eventually, I got sick of being on high-alert, and threw the canisters away. Quite shortly thereafter, I went back to enjoying the day and sleeping soundly at night.

My point, there may be reason to fear being beaten up holding hands in public while walking the beach, but if your trying to save your health, your much better off to wear your seatbelt than uncouple your hand. Awareness of alarming situations is good, constant vigil is victimization. Personally, I choose to hold my partner’s hand anywhere I feel like. But then again, we are fleet of feet.

Finally, yeah, we live in a hyper-masculinist society that is, indeed, one of the most violent cultures in the western world. But, violence is less than our foresisters was in the days of Stonewall. Per capita, select violence against gay men is going down (not up). Even when we hear that hate crime reports are up, when measured to the percentage of openly gay men coming out, it yields a safer and safer situation.

In terms of your specific situation, let’s just hope that they “brag” to their friends about their gay bashing, and one of their friends hears about it and calls the police. That would rock.

Gums

thanks gumby, havent thought of it that way.