Hey guys. I was married to a woman for over ten years and am just about to get divorced....Have a kid too. I need some advice: Do you all think I am entitled to the normal, legally prescribed "half of all marital property?" I came out to my wife just a few months ago and we're in the process of settling the divorce legally. Being in a straight marriage for that long has warped my sense of moral and ethical rationality, so I would appreciate your input. I'm not asking for legal advice (although if you have any I wouldn't reject it) but mostly just want to get my head straight so I know what to fight for. Really appreciate any input you brothers can offer me...

I was married to a woman also. Actually, I still am, only we're separated, but I have a few gay friends who were married to women and went through the whole divorce thing.

The advice they've always given me, should I ever get divorced, is to not give up assets that are rightfully yours. If your relationship with your wife is bad, no amount of money is going to make her happy. Why increase the financial burden on yourself by walking away from assets that are half yours? Like I said, having the extra car or several thousands of dollars or the vacation home or whatever, none of that is going to make her happy. You've put as much into acquiring marital assets as she has, so you should be able to get half. I would go for a 50-50 split of assets. And I would fight for my rights to have access and some custody of my kids.

[ November 10, 2005, 04:47 AM: Message edited by: aquaman ]

I agree with aquaman's advice.

I have a friend who went through a divorce. He felt so quilty for coming out to his wife, ending the marriage, and during the seperation finding his current partner, that he basically was willing to give his wife everything. His wife exploited his guilt and put him in a bad situation financially. At first they didn't fight over custody he agreed to one weekend a month, once again because she used his guilt and the fact that the children needed a "ormal life". Well one weekend a month isn't really enough. He tried to change that later and the custody battle got bitter.

He says now that he should have done it completely differently. He was being ruled by emotion and a skewed sense of fairness, and wasn't thinking about his long term life.

That was nearly 10 years ago, he is just now coming out of the financial hole he dug himself and his relationship with is children is friendly, but not close.

I am an attorney that does divorce work, don't let the name fool you, explanation of that is in the College Football thread. (Damn Marcus Vick for getting my hopes up.)

1. Divorce laws are state-by-state, I don't know Kentucky's laws but I have a feeling you are in an "equitable distribution" state. That means the court would try to be fair in dividing assets, usually but not necessarily as equal division of the assets.

2. If you have not done so yet, GET AN ATTORNEY! And be honest with the attorney, why you are leaving, the guilt you feel (this is not your fault, BTW), a clear view of assets and debts.

3. Do not let your feelings get in the way of dividing property. You should get all you can, at least the big stuff like house, bank accounts, etc. I totally agree with aquaman, you can't let the emotions of the breakup make you settle for less than you should get. There may be other reasons to settle, economic, cost, or otherwise, but the fact that you feel that you are the cause of the breakup because you are gay influence your decision.

4. That said, don't fight about the small stuff. I had one case that settled almost $500K of assets but refused to settle on who got the (mostly crappy) furniture. That is not worth the time, emotional capital and lawyer fees that will be expended.

Buccoman, good luck, do not let "straight morals and ethics" get in the way of claiming all of the assets to which you should legally be entitled. If you leave yourself with nothing and her with everything, you will regret it later.

Been there, done that.

I got divorced about 5 years ago. I was so wrapped up in guilt, I let my ex run roughshod all over me.

The best advice is figure out what is important to you and what isn't. Nothing about a divorce has anything to do with logic or sense. You can agree about major issues and absolutely melt down about minor stuff.

My advice is don't negotiate with your wife directly. I had too much guilt to be my own advocate.

Get an attorney and do all the major negotiations through him or her, i.e. finances, custody etc. If you can, find someone with experience in child welfare to determine what is really best for the kids,not what your ex thinks is best.

All that being said, getting divorced and coming out was the best thing I have ever done. When I am feeling angry about those events, I just remember the mental health I have gained from being honest and true to myself was well worth the cost.

Also, been there done that. I felt so bad about the situation that I gave her everything. She agreed to let me see my two kids twice a month and used them to keep me out of court. I gave her tools and electronics that were christmas presents from my family. I would have done anything to be able to see my kids.

When I look back, I should have gone to court. I've been trying to dig myself out of a financial mess. I can't afford to do anything extra for myself or my kids.

My biggest mistake was not realizing (and not being advised from my attorney) that alimony does not always end if she remarries. I agreed to a huge sum in rehabilitative alimony knowing she would get remarried at some point soon. I was surprised to learn that I still get to pay her alimony (until 2010) dispite the fact that she has a new husband that makes a good salary. I'm barely making ends meet. They take trips, golf almost every weekend, have new cars/furniture.

Don't let your emotions get the best of you. Good luck. Feel free to send me an email if you want to discuss this offline.

Tim

I've been through this too. Appeasement does not work, and I say that as a litigant in divorce and as a lawyer. Do not waive your rights out of guilt or because you don't want to fight. And you probably will have to fight her hard. Identify the two or three things that are most important to you, such as time with your kid, your share of the assets, your health, etc., and let everything else go. Don't let her push your buttons emotionally. Get a good therapist that you can work with over your conflicting feelings about coming out, having been married, etc. Don't delay in establishing regular and generous time with your kid(s). Assume that you owe nothing more to your ex than the legally mandated child or spousal support--that is, don't "help her out" if she's having a hard time, or asks for something extra. You deserve to move ahead and to have the law protect you from being exploited.

another one here! my divorce isn't final yet, but it's close. Definitely get an attorney. if she isn't bitter yet, I'd be willing to bet she will get there. and the best thing my attorney has told me is "there is no law in PA that says you're a bad guy, so you have to pay."

A friend of mine works in social work (protecting women from abuse) told me that it takes 2 make the marriage, good or bad. She describes my situation as an unspoken contract; she figures that my wife needed to be married for some reason, and a gay man was acceptible; my part of the deal was that I wanted to appear straight, and so I got married. When I could no longer keep that Facade in place, the marriage went bad. My wife blames me for everything, but therapy and good advice has kept me from accepting all the blame.

i've been in the same situation - married w/child, separated for a long while, and divorced now for 5 years. even though my wife was very understanding and still friendly, i would still advise you to retain an attorney to ensure that any feelings of guilt don't supersede your legal rights. while separated, i sacrificed a lot financially and in housing to ensure that my wife didn't feel any impact in the living conditions she was accustomed - house, car, discretionary income. i was prepared to formalize much of that in my divorce until I retained an attorney and he began to act as my advocate. it was interesting to watch how the division of a marriage - assets, child custody, etc. - brings out the worst in normally rational people. i realized i was receiving absolutely no credit for the sacrifices i had made to maintain her "standard of living" while separated and my attorney negotiated a fair settlement - we figured out a way for her to afford the house, i maintained 50% custody of my daughter, and my ex-wife received child support based on the state formula for custody%. going through a divorce is difficult and it occasionally gets messy, but you definitely need an outside party (attorney) to make sure you don't give away your rights with an emotional decision.

reminds me of what a friend of mine says: Why is divorce so expensive??? Because it's worth it!

I felt so guilty for leaving my kids behind, that was one reason why I stayed so long. I finally realized that I would be a better dad if I was out of that house. I also thought (mistakenly) that I was the source of the tension in the home, and that if I were gone, it would be a happier place for my kids. That turned out to be false. My kids have come to me several times to ask for help in dealing with their mother. At one point, my daughter stated it perfectly: It's like she chooses to be unhappy. How true that is, we are all about as happy as we choose to be. I guess I'm so happy that I made myself gay! wink

Thanks for all the advice, guys....I'm meeting my attorney today. We've hammered out all the small stuff pretty easily over the past couple weeks, but some big stuff remains. I needed to hear your stories, and get your advice, in order to reassure myself that it is right to fight for my share. If I'm understanding correctly, you all are saying "put aside your guilt and claim what is legally yours." No one is saying "you owe her extra because of what you did to her." It's kind of funny because I know my wife frequents one of those websites for spouses of gay husbands, or something like that. I wonder what THEY are telling HER to do?

Why not visit that website yourself and find out what they're telling her?

My 2¢: Obssessing about "what your ex thinks" and "what they're telling her" is really beside the point, and a waste of your time and energy. Easier said than done, but your own needs require your attention right now, so let your attorney deal with the ex.

i agree that it is waste of energy to get inside her head. she should claim what is rightfully hers, just as you should. family law in your state will dictate how assets are divided. your attorney will steer you safely through the legalities.

i was like you when i left my marriage in 2002. i left behind most of the stuff. i could have taken more, and at times i regret it. however, my daughters lived with my wife, and i wasn't going to take away things from THEIR house.

ironically, our biggest fight over assets wasn't over the big stuff -- house, retirement accts, etc. -- but over a bottle of cinnamon. that's right. i was the baker in the family, but apparently i crossed the line when i emptied the spice cabinet. go figure...she was livid. lol.

she remarried last summer and my alimony ended with the marriage (!). my younger daughter graduates high school in june, and i'll never write the exwife another check.

i can look at the man in the mirror and know that i did what was right by her (financially) and by my girls. that's huge.

You have a kid. Everything else is bullshit until the rug rat is 21, and frankly - probably - for the rest of their life.

You are going to have to suck it up and deal with rebuilding your life, and there is no easy road for that; especially with a child involved.

Are you entitled to 'Half'? Absolutely not - you gave part of that that up the night you got horny, and the rest of it nine month;s later when the kid was born.

Stand up and be a man, admit you have made mistakes, and do what is right. Do what is best for the child.

Rob

Honestly, I don't understand what the indecision is here. Divorce is divorce, no matter the reason, and as long as you're entitled to an equitable split of the assets, then you should expect that. I mean, if you both worked for the last 10 years to pay for things and build a life together, why would you not be entitled to half of that? Who gives a crap what the underlying cause is, the law is the law.

So did his wife.
I didn't read where he said that he wasn't going to do that.

QUOTE

originally posted by Weaselman: Honestly, I don't understand what the indecision is here. Divorce is divorce, no matter the reason, and as long as you're entitled to an equitable split of the assets, then you should expect that. I mean, if you both worked for the last 10 years to pay for things and build a life together, why would you not be entitled to half of that? Who gives a crap what the underlying cause is, the law is the law.

Because, as many of the formerly married men have implied, by the time they got to the point of separation or divorce, a guy is in a depression, guilt-ridden because of the mess he feels he's made. Not to mention how he's "failed" at being married, "failed" at trying to be straight; that's a lot of pressure to put on someone. I tried it, couldn't do it, failed miserably, and beat myself up a lot.

To me, it sounds like both of you have not been in that position. You might have a bit more compassion if you had been. Weaselman, you are right, it doesn't matter what the reason is for the divorce; he's worked for those things too and is entitled to them. I'm not sure that there's indecision in buccoman's post, but I do hear the guilt, fear, and feeling that if he gives her as much as he can (money, property, etc) that it will make things alright. It won't. Trust me. I'm paying over $10,000/year in child support, I take care of my kids the moment they call me; I'm involved in their lives, and help with babysitting, transportation and anything else that comes up. It's never enough for my soon-to-be-ex. So I go on with my life, and I've noticed that eventhough the wife is still bitching about stuff, she's moving on too.