Just heard some breaking news.. Dungy's 18 year old son James was found dead this morning in Tampa. No details available yet.

What sad news especially given it's days before Christmas. And Dungy is having his best season to date as a coach.

[ December 22, 2005, 06:27 AM: Message edited by: FireMikeTiceNow ]

It's being said here on the radio that he committed suicide. Very sad and brings tears on for me personally.

How absolutely devastating. I heard about this early this morning and just have been somber about it all day. I was hoping that it was not suicide, but it appears as though that is what it is. Regardless, it is just absolutely tragic. Its never an easy time when a parent loses one of their children, but for it to happen right before Christmas does make it all the more tragic and sad. I just feel so horrible for Tony Dungy and his family. I think he is the classiest coach in the NFL and have always respected him. My heartfelt condolences extend to he and his family in their time of grief. I hear he is very religious and I hope that he and his family use the power of prayer and their faith to get through this very devastating loss. frown

I have the utmost respect for Dungy as a man and as a coach and wish he and his family my sincerest condolences in their time of immense loss. He brought class and discipline to the Tampa Bay Bucs and was, in my opinion, more responsible for our Superbowl title than any other person, including Gruden. Tony's faith and family are the centers of his universe. I hope that the rumors of suicide are found to be untrue. If they are not I'm sure there will be quite a bit of discussion of how such a tight knit family with such a high devotion to faith could have such a thing happen. Unfortunately we all know one scenario that happens far too often. That is in no way meant to be anything other than a statement about an unfortunate reality, nothing more.

This is very sad news. Tony Dungy is a wonderful ambassador for Indy, and such a nice man and coach. It's heartbreaking that he and his family have to go through such a tragedy.

So sad. I hope it's not suicide. frown

[ December 22, 2005, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: chi-town ]

Looks like it was a suicide - which honestly got me immediately wondering if he was gay. We do have such a high suicide rate at that age

I thought I had read that him and his friends went to see a movie the night before? I wonder what movie..

It wasn't "Brokeback". It's not playing on the west coast of Florida yet.

One always wonders...There were several suicides of college students when I was growing up in Wheaton, IL. At the time (I was young) I thought, "Gee, Wheaton College must really be a tough school." Later I found out that most of the kids had been gay. For those who don't know, Wheaton is a VERY religious school....

Oh, good. That's the last thing I want this movie to be known for. frown

Well, the only reason I brought that up is because I fail to come up with other reason's why he would do what he did. I mean, if drugs arent the issue then what else is? I think depression could be at play, but that's more of a symptom than a reason.

On a side note, they say depression is hereditary and the times I've seen Tony Dungy speak, I think the first time I thought he seemed depressed. He's probably just VERY low keyed, and that's why his son's' death has devestated so many.

I just wish he would have given it one more day. Who knows, maybe then he never would have gone through with it. frown

[quote]RobertsInOkc:
[QUOTE]

I just wish he would have given it one more day. Who knows, maybe then he never would have gone through with it. [/quote]I'm going to assume that my initial suspicion of a "gay angle" was a miscalculation.Since by all accounts he was a happy,healthy young man brought up in a loving family it becomes even more difficult to fathom.He just seemed like someone with the world at his fingertips and suicide just seems so inexplicable.

My own belief is that he momentarily lost control
over a situation he viewed as devastating.There was some mention in the Indy media of possible disappointment over not being able to play college football.We may never know the full story,but my inclination is that it is one of those classic "end of the world" type of thought processes.

In all liklihood,it was one of those issues that seems momentous when you are 18 and yet 2 or 3 years later you can't even remember why you were so upset in the first place.Hell,I can't remember anything about being 18-of course sometimes I can't remember yesterday either. eek! I don't know if drugs were a factor,but I gotta believe something adversely affected his ability to reason things out.Can't imagine subjecting your family to this sort of tragedy,especially 2 or 3 days before Christmas unless you actually wanted to punish them.Since all indications were that they were close,it seems like if he had just taken 5 or 10 min to think things thru the whole tragedy would've been prevented. frown

Other than the possible "gay angle", though always a possibility in suicides within deeply conservative religious families (and Southern Baptist certainly qualifies as one of the more stringent), there is the chance that he was, like the vast majority of modern day kids, under a lot of pressure to succeed beyond the average.

I noticed in this article that James Dungy comes from a family of relatively successful people, at least on his father's side: His father played in a game dominated by many African-Americans who have succeeded on athletic ability and talent.

James at 6'7" no doubt suffered the same sort of ribbing that many poor kids with the "gift" of unusual height but little athletic skill, or interest in athletics, have to endure when growing up. Parents don't have to push kids for them to feel guilty about not being "outstanding".

On a more positive note, it is inspirational to see the diversity and extent of Tony Dungy's football family. The sincerity of the Giants Jay Feely is one of them. But exposure to football celebrities throughout his life apparently may not have been enough to prevent his son, who seems to have spent far more time with his computer than with his father, from needing more attention from that father than his father's busy schedule would allow.

Edited to add: There may have been more to James Dungy than anyone knew, including his father.

[ December 23, 2005, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: sportinlife ]

This is so very, very sad. Now that I'm seeing pictures of his son, I am seeing a real sad person. What a shame that an 18 year old boy would have had so much pain inside him to do this.

[ December 23, 2005, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: amazin12 ]

I feel real sad for Tony Dungy his family and friends and friends of James as well.

When I was 17, I tried to kill myself and am glad I did not succeed. I turned a corner eventually and things got better.

I don't think anyone but those who have been there and tried knows the depth of despair one feels and this becomes the only option. When people kill themselves, it saddens me.

Interestingly enough, there was a discussion on suicide on Larry King live last night.

The dark cloud passes and things get better!

Well, this video pretty much says it all;

http://www.abcactionnews.com/video/news/20...23website.shtml

They found the young man's myspace.com website.

How reprehensible. This reminds me why I don't trust most psychologists. Most of them are more screwed up than their patients and just projecting.

Forensic Psychiatry is an incredibly dificult and demanding science requiring years of dedicated study.

For a clinical psychologist to publicly apply pop psych schtik to a unattributted website without checking for authenticity, ever meeting the person, or studying the other aspects of their life is unethical and reprehensible.

Not that most clinical psychologists have that many ethics anyway; but this guy should be physically hauled before the state licensing committee STAT.

Disgusted

Rob

I just heard that James Dungy attempted suicide back in October by taking 14 prescription pills.

That poor man and his family. What a horrible change they all must endure. I think mental illness, mainly depression is still very much stigmatized today. Mental illness is treatable however insurance companies and Doctors who dont take insurance have made it very difficult to treat.
My dad died of suicide in 1987, it was such a waste. There are other options even when everything seems hopeless.

The other day in Phoenix I commented on how long it would take before someone posted that maybe he killed himself because he was gay. Not surprisingly, it was done before my plane even landed on Thursday.

Suicide rates among black teens doubled from 1980-1996, and are approaching those of white teenagers.

I doubt that resulting deaths due to self-destructive behavior like gang violence, confronting police or drug involvement are included but if so the rate for the sum of those and conventional suicides might well equalize it.

Wow Joe that's amazing! Congratulations!

What's amazing is a gay guy's ability to try and link every suicide of a teen or divorce of a good looking man to their being gay. Pure, utter, irresponsible speculation. And why is it any of your business anyway? If a teenage family friend or relative commited suicide, would you go up to someone in the grieving family and wonder "Was he gay?" Sadly I think some of you just might. Because we all knwo that straight teenagers don't commit suicide.

[ December 26, 2005, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: FireMikeTiceNow ]

It is not just gay guys. I have heard on several occaisions speculation from straights that one of the possibilities of a young mans suicide was that he was gay. For the most part it is speculation, since know one really know or isn't close enough to the situation to be able to even hazard a guess. No people wouldn't go up to the grieving family and ask "was he guy", but that doesn't stop them from talking about it. I remember attending a funeral of a suicide, while no one speculated directly in front of the family, there was a lot of buzz and discussion going around. This was extremely tacky because the family did overhear it, and had to deal with wild and unfounded rumors. If you put it all together the departed was a gay drug dealer, who did drugs and drank, got a girl pregnant, suffered from clinical depression, ADD,bi-polar was depressed about his school performance, had a bad relationship with (Mom, Dad, sis, brother, grandparents), etc.. All of it wild speculation that shouldn't have been discussed within earshot of any family member or friend. While not excusing it, I can completely understand the human nature of asking why and needing an answer.

Let's relax. When a teenager commits suicide there's all sorts of speculation. It is human nature for anybody (gay or not) to speculate whether the teen could have been gay. I don't know the numbers, but I'm sure it's right up there to account for enough teen suicides. And let's be honest I'm sure when you heard the news, the thought (even as miniscule as it may have been) must have crossed your mind. It crossed my mnind and I don't think that makes me a bad guy.

[ December 27, 2005, 07:02 AM: Message edited by: amazin12 ]

Do not tell me to relax. The people that need to relax are the "I have no life of my own queens" who think everything is due to someone being gay. And if it is human nature to speculate on such things, why is the only speculation I've read here is that he's gay? Nobody is suggesting that he had a drug/alcohol/gambling problem. Nobody is thinking he was bipolar. Maybe he was molested by a priest. Maybe he couldn't take the pressure of having his life under a microscope as the son of a very successful NFL coach, thereby making some of you Nosy Nancies to share in the blame. Who knows. Bottom line-none of our business.

The gay angle didn't cross my mind at all actually, other than to wonder how long it would take for one of the big "sports fans" here at Outsports to bring it up as if they were Jessica Flethcher solving the mystery of the murder at the old mill.

What did cross my mind was he must have been a very sad/desperate young man. And what also crossed my mind was what a tragedy for Tony and his wife. Having lost a brother when we were both teenagers, I know all too well the devastation the death of a child has on a family.

As for the comments by kuhawker that nobody would make such comments within earshot of the family, do you really think posting these thoughts on the internet is all that much better? A family member could read such comments.

You guys are saying it's human nature to specualte on such matters. Yeah, in that Entertainment Tonight, Gladys Kravitz, everything-that-any-borderline-celebrity-does-is-my-business sort of way. If I need to realx, then you guys need to get yourselves your own lives because you clearly don't have enough to keep yourselves interested in them.

For people that knew him to speculate, I could see that maybe they would be feeling guilty and wondering if there was anything they could have done to help him. For you guys, it's just a sad commentary on your morbid curiosities.

[ December 27, 2005, 07:31 AM: Message edited by: FireMikeTiceNow ]

Interesting article....sometimes one shows one side to the world and another to the computer world...

Dungy on Myspace.com

NJ

I really didn't want to have to get into this from such a personal level but I think it's important that I respond to some of the self-righteous, pompous jerks who have leveled personal attacks on me without knowing one damn thing about me or the experiences in my life that would lead me to bring up the subject.

Let me start out by saying that you should not put words in my mouth. Nor should you question my motives. I was very sincere and intended to be very clear in my first post on this topic that my intention was to open debate on the problem of young gay people who commit suicide when they seem to have the perfect life and family...NOT to make ANY statement or conjecture concerning the tragic death of Mr. Dungy specifically.

My statement that seems to be generating such controversy, in MY OWN words:

If you knew me at all you would know that that was my only intent. My wording and the fact that I was proposing the discussion on a thread dedicated to Mr. Dungy's death may have been misunderstood or even inappropriate but I assure you that I was NOT speculating specifically on the reasons for his suicide. I did not know him personally nor was I familiar with his personal life and I would NEVER make ANY assumptions about him personally. I agree, it would have been more appropriate for me to have opened another subject to discuss this topic and I could/should have waited so as to not give the impression that I was making a direct connection, but I didn't, my bad. I relied too heavily on the belief that people would take me on my word. Most current event threads start out with a specific event stated but the discussion usually develops to address broader topics that are brought to mind by the stated event. Excuse me if it was insensitive or untimely to do that with this event.

On a more personal note let me give you the long Cliff's Notes version of a personal experience that has brought this subject home to me. When I was in high school in Mississippi one of my very best friends committed suicide. I was devastated and confused. I never knew he was in a crisis of that magnitude. Of course he had all the same issues that most high school boys do, girl friends or lack thereof, zits, popularity etc. but he never gave me the impression that he was in a crisis. There was a lot of talk around school that it was due to drugs, devil worship etc. I knew that none of these things were true but it didn't stop the gossip. Not once did I hear anyone question if he was gay. I was very religious and didn't even know what gay was at the time so it never crossed my mind either. Flash forward almost 25 years. I went home to MS from Tampa last year for Christmas. I ran into my friend's sister Sissy. We did the small talk and asked all the usual questions. When she asked me if I was married I told her I wasn’t but I would marry my boyfriend in a minute if it was legal. She hadn't realized I was gay but was really cool with it. We talked a little more and went our separate ways. That Sunday I reluctantly went with my family to church. Sissy was there. After the service she came up to me and told me she wanted to talk to me before I went back to Florida. Since she was older than me and I was never close with her, I couldn't imagine what she wanted to tell me. Was SHE gay? (so shoot me for jumping to that conclusion). We met later that afternoon. She told me that \"John\" had killed himself because he was gay. I was devastated! She told me that neither she nor her family had ever told a soul about the reason for his suicide. She didn't find out until a year or two after it happened when her older brother told her what the suicide note said. Her parents were scared to death that if the information got out it would shame the family. She was in hysterics. Evidently another kid had committed suicide in our hometown a few years ago and he was thought to be gay. Sissy felt horrible and wondered how many of the kids that kill themselves are gay and the families keep it a secret. She felt, as I now do, that the secrecy and denial contributes to the problem. She wanted my advice as to what she could do to help other kids like her brother understand that they are not alone, they are valuable and they can have happy productive lives, that suicide is not the answer. Unfortunately I didn't have an answer for her at the time. I WAS like many on this board who think any gay activism or participation in gay organizations is “so gay”. She lives in small town MS and there were virtually no gay organizations in the state. After telling my boyfriend the story and asking his advise he suggested that I give her the web address to PFLAG. I did and am happy to say that she is now very active in the organization particularly in suicide prevention. She AND HER MOTHER now speak publicly about the secret problem of gay teen suicide. She and I keep in touch and she has become one of my best friends. I have learned so much from her, a straight woman about gay issues including the sad epidemic of gay teen suicide. More importantly I have learned so much about me and my obligations to humanity including young gay kids who are scared and desperate for answers.

I couldn't help being devastated by the fact that my best friend killed himself because he was gay...That he didn't feel that he could talk to me…That I didn't know to or even know how to talk to him…and that I probably would have done more damage than good at the time because I was devoutly Southern Baptist, conservative and subconsciously fighting the same feelings within myself. And I can't believe that it took almost 25 years for me to find out the truth or to even realize that this is a problem among gay youth.

Until this happened I didn't give a thought to gay teen suicide or any kind of suicide. The \"gay angle\" NEVER crossed my mind when I heard about a teen who killed himself. Like most of us, until it affected me, it didn't seem important. I didn't know until recently that gay teens are up to 4 times more likely to attempt and/or succeed at suicide. These statistics are only based on suicides where the reason is KNOWN. I'm sure that a lot of kids that are so ashamed of their sexuality that they are willing to kill themselves over it are not likely to leave a note telling people about their \"sickness\".

The secrecy and shame surrounding these tragedies contributes to the problem. No one wants to address the problem for fear of \"insulting\" the deceased or his/her family. I would NEVER go up to a grieving family and question their child’s sexual orientation (and I am insulted that anyone would make such an ignorant statement), NOR would I speculated on a suicide victim’s reason (drugs, depression, orientation etc.) for killing himself, but I do think that we MUST get this phenomenon out of the closet and address it, talk about it, and shine some light on it.

I am amazed at how virtually EVERY gay person I know went through a period where he thought that he was the only gay person in the world. Virtually all of us were brought up with the stereotypes emblazoned into our brains. We learned how gays were evil, and sick and perverts and child molesters and miserable. We all have found out later in life that someone we looked up to was gay and we wish that we had know about it when we were going through our hell. We all talk about how we wish we had known someone who was gay and out to let us know that there were others and that we would be OK. I hear so many people talk of how they considered or attempted suicide because they were so scared, confused and lonely. But then I find myself and every gay person I know leaving gay kids to fend for themselves under the same desperation that we endured without so much as a thought to doing something to save them from this hell. Then I hear gay people who don’t even want to discuss the tragic fact of so many young gay people committing suicide because they think those who do are left-wing, radical, self-centered, slash and burn queer activist freaks. Well I am not left-wing or self-centered and I am hardly a radical activist of any kind. Nor am I a pussy who will stand by quietly while someone puts words in my mouth and tries to silence me for opening up a discussion on a topic I feel is important.

I apologize for any misunderstanding that I caused in my original post. My thoughts were not stated clearly enough to not be misunderstood and my timing was not the best. I will state once again that my intent was to broaden the discussion to address a related topic that affects our community directly and disproportionately. I did not know Tony’s son and had no intention of questioning his personal reasons. I feel that suicide is ALWAYS a tragedy no matter what the reason. If the “gay angle” never crosses your mind when a child commits suicide then you’re probably not familiar with the facts and statistics of gay child suicide. However, that does not give ANYONE the right to conjecture and gossip about a specific incident of someone with whom they have had no personal relationship or personal knowledge.

Originally posted by FireMikeTiceNow:

I have a full and wonderful life that is even fuller and more wonderful now that I feel that I am doing my little part to help others avoid some of the hell that I lived through. I don't assume that there is a gay angle to everything nor do I believe, as I used to, and as FireMikeTiceNow seems to still feel, that there is NEVER a gay angle to anything, or if there is it isn't worth addressing. For someone so concerned about slamming people for making judgements on people that they don't know, you seem awfully willing to make false statements and judgements about me, a person that you don't know from Adam.

If you ever care to get to know me you won't ever make such claims about me again. My friends will attest to that. They read your response and said you couldn't have gotten it more wrong about me.

I’m sorry to go on so long but nothing pisses me off more than people putting words in my mouth or attributing thoughts and feelings to me that are incorrect and unwarranted.

[ December 27, 2005, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: UMRebel/Bucfan ]

Well I was not singling you out. You were not the only one who mentioned this theory. People wonderring what movie he may have seen the night before and then being grateful it wasn't Brokeback Mountain? You don't need a decoder ring to decipher that message.

I am sorry for the loss of your friend. But if your motivation was not to link this specific suicide to him being gay and wished to discuss the issue of gay teenage suicides in general, then perhaps you could have started a thread in the Real Life forum.

You seem to be fairly new to the board, but if you'd been here longer you would know there is a group of folks who pretty much do nothing but speculate as the who is gay and who isn't and/or spread idle gossip about certain athletes/actors/singers who they "know" are gay (oddly, they only seem to be the hot guys; go figure ). My point is merely that whatever the reason for this tragedy, it isn't anybody's business but the immediate family and close friends of James Dungy and any specualtion on our part in regards to this specific incident is just plain silly and irresponsible.

I didn't mention ANY theory. I mentioned a scenario. I even called it a scenario and added a disclaimer at the end of it to let people know that I was not theorizing specifically about James.

I believe I clearly acknowledged that twice in my response and apologized for bad timing, bad wording and putting the subject in the wrong forum.

My own words:

and

I, in no uncertain terms, took full responsibility for my mistakes. No \"Sorry if I MAY have...\" or \"MAYBE I should have\" mamsy pamsy apologies. I flat out said I was wrong and should have said/done things differently.

As far as the \"Brokeback\" response, I knew where someone was going with that and I wanted to put a quick stop to that conjecture before it grew legs.

I don't feel comfortable with the direction that this forum has taken because I feel that there has been too much questioning of the specific circumstances surrounding James' death. I feel responsible for unintentionally laying the seed that progressed into inappropriate questions about his specific incident.

You are right that I have only recently started to post and don't know the history of what other people say or do. I shouldn't be judged by their actions or statements. I for one have never claimed that anyone was gay or projected anything on anyone that I didn't know. That was my point. It seemed unfair that you made so many assumptions about me and incorrectly transformed my statement to say that I was specifically questioning personal issues surrounding Mr. Dungy's tragic demise.

I couldn't agree more. But aside from that I think we need to address a problem within our community that no one seems to want to talk about. The sad fact is that we don't talk enough about suicide and why people do it. We seem to only talk about it when someone that we know, or know of, does it. Then we start asking all the questions we should have been asking all along. Unfortunately this leads to people asking all the right questions but tieing them directly to the person that sparked the conversation in the first place. I don't think that it is necessarily mean spirited or intended to cause harm, but the unfortunate result of "taboo subjects" only being discussed under bad circumstances.

We have to also make sure that we don't buy into our society's bigotry. I don't think that thinking someone is gay, saying someone is gay, or questioning if someone is gay should be considered an insult. I see a lot of gay people who seem to think that saying someone is gay is an insult or an ACCUSATION. It should be no more insulting than any other assumption about a person, their nationality, their ethnicity, their religion, etc. I can't believe it when I hear a gay person say that someone was "accused" of being gay. What's that all about?

I think we think more alike than different but something got lost in translation.

No hard feelings bud. It's all good.

[ December 27, 2005, 04:44 PM: Message edited by: UMRebel/Bucfan ]

I'll admit the thought that James Dungy may have been gay crossed my mind almost immediately after hearing the news. Not because I had any specific information, or because I champion any cause. Rather, I think it's because I had a great childhood, a great family, no financial worries, was good in school, athletics, etc. And the only unbelieveably frightening, sometimes emotionally paralyzing thing to me when I was 18 was knowing I was gay, and not having a clue how to deal with it.

Yes, there are a dozen other reasons, all tragic, that can lead a teenager to take his or her own life. But I personally cannot relate to any others than being gay at 18.

I believe wondering whether James was gay is not as much prurient speculation as much as it is a reaction to our own experiences. We (or most of us)were all gay at 18. It was not easy for me. I'll berate no one for wondering

I actually did try to start a discussion in another forum, on December 18th, about a 13 year old black kid who commited suicide because he was gay. This was a week or so before the incident discussed here. So this is obviously something that I had expressed concern about before and without any reference to James. There were only a couple of responses to it. An example of how no one seems to want to talk about it until it happens to some one we know or know of. Even there someone tried to put words in my mouth and misinterpreted something I said.

If anyone is interested in the thread it is posted under Politics and Religion (for reasons that will become obvious) and is titled Video: "At Thirteen" ode to a gay child who killed himself.

Let me make it clear that this is related only in that it is about teen suicide, nothing more.

[ December 27, 2005, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: UMRebel/Bucfan ]

In the San Francisco Chronicle this morning, in an article about the funeral, it states: "The Colts' coach buried his eldest son, James, in Lutz, Fla. on Tuesday, lovingly recalling the 18-year old who died in an apparent suicide last week as a 'mama's boy' with a 'compassionate heart', as someone who loved to smile and have fun."

While not exactly "outing" him, it does appear that the gay angle may be correct. Just reporting what I read this morning...

OK I'm starting to understand FireMikeTiceNow's point a bit better.

I know tons of straight men who are "mama's boys" and who have "compassionate hearts". I don't think that can be interpreted to mean any more than he was close to his mother and was a good guy. Neither of those characteristics are gay exclusive.

I think my mother's a bitch, I don't give a shit about anybody and I hate smiling and having fun.

Just kidding! But I have met a few gay men who fit this discription more than the stereotyped one.

[ December 28, 2005, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: UMRebel/Bucfan ]

This is just way tacky, IMO. I mean, I know it's Fox Sports, who are just about the most snarky and tactless people in the sports reporting biz, but still, I think it's a bit much. It's not really necessary to splash the gory details of the 911 call all over the place. Fox Sports story on 911 call

The source of that info is the Associated Press. If you Google you'll find links to the story on many, many websites, not just Fox Sports.

Still, no matter where it came from originally, It's crass, IMO. Just 'cause it's AP, or whomever. Then the fact that news outlets are all over it, is rather sickening. Ahhh, news reporting, 21st century stile, If it bleeds, it leads.

(shame there's no middle finger emoticon)

[ January 05, 2006, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: Shytownmofo ]

Another pro football suicide, Australian rugby legend Steve Rogers was found dead by his own hand this week, at age 51.

"He was suffering from some depression and, as a person of his stature and a public figure, he found it really hard to talk about it to other people and therefore exacerbated the problem," Mat Rogers (Steve Rogers' son) said.

It's an awful disease which, denied or left untreated, can end in a very sad way. RIP Steve Rogers and James Dungy.

[ January 07, 2006, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: fenwayguy ]