When you meet someone--how long do you wait before telling them that you're poz

I'm so damn frustrated--I firmly believe in telling them up front, but it seems as if I keep meeting HIV-phobic guys.

I'm almost to the point where I don't want to tell them so I'll get a second date out of them, although I'll never do that.

I tell them if and when it seems were going to "go there", like that very night. I have found most guys have been ok about it. Although, admittedly there have only been a few guys I've had to tell (3 exactly) as I've been in a relationship for years now. You don't want to mess with the guys who have a problem with it anyway. Better to just keep them as friends.

I suggest telling them up front before there is any emotional investment. Yeah, it is frustrating. However it is downright painful after you get involved. The only downer is when you realize that there are that many shallow gay men out there. frown

Since anal sex is not 100 percent safe, there is nothing shallow about self-protection. I'll tell you what is pitiful, though: one of my very best friends allowed himself to be infected by his boyfriend so they could experience the joy of HIV together only to see their relationship break up six weeks after my friend tested positive. My friend has been lucky and med-free since he was diagnosed 5 years ago...we have no idea about his ex. So, for poz people who say those of us who are negative are shallow or have attitude when we react with a less-than-desired response when you tell us about your diagnosis, there are just as many of you POZers who don't think we should see it as a big deal...when life and death is a VERY big deal to some of us. I know medical advances are being made every day but until there is a cure, we are risking our lives. Play safe, guys and gals and know your status!

[ February 14, 2005, 06:23 AM: Message edited by: bobby78751 ]

I can see the argument from both sides...

My problem is- although sex is a huge part of relationships- with the right person or soulmate, does it have to be everything?

In my honest opinion, no it does not. True it is a key component of any relationship. Personally I consider and see sex as being the highest form of communication between any two people. Its an integral part of the relationship puzzle yes, but its not the only key component.

The "joy" of HIV?



See, theodoresdaddy, here's your problem. It's not that you're not being honest about your status. It's that you don't educate these guys about the "joy" of HIV! Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go slam my head against the wall a few hundred times so I can stop thinking about how utterly stupid some people are...

Joe

Geez...it's called sarcasm. I guess I should have put the word in cutsey little quotes.

If they didn't actually say that, then you should have made it more clear. Sadly, there are people who seriously think that way.

Joe

Bobby, I am not "+", for AIDS anyway.
I do have some personal experience that will not be posted. By definition these fellas are "shallow". I feel that they run around thinking "It could be me" without realizing they should be grateful that it is not them. From their actions one might assess they do not have the tolerance for enduring a disease like AIDS. These diseases are the ones you live and struggle with, then die.
Just because you meet a guy doesn't mean he should treat you like ass (all puns intended). Perhaps he should learn from your struggle and try to become a bigger, better person. Chances are the flightful fella could use a little grounding. If he doesn't feel comfortable with it, then maybe just a spanking wink

the joy?

there are some sick f**ks (pardon my french) out there--of course the same can be said for smokers, those who abuse drugs, are obese, etc

you do something that you know if liable to kill you and you do it anyway?

why--I quit smoking after 17 years, although I did slip up once last week and before that was in November

I understand, in a very twisted way, why someone would want to become positive. I don't know what I would do if I ever infected someone else. I couldn't live with myself. I might as well pull the trigger and just kill them that way.

And I don't know if it's shallow men but guys who are so uneducated about HIV. That's what surprises me even more. How can anyone not know what is considered safe and what's not? Granted, we don't know for sure what is and what's not 100% safe but there are some general beliefs, I guess that's the right word, about what is and what isn't.

That's what surprises me, and pisses me off, the most. And no, these are not all young guys.

[ February 14, 2005, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: theodoresdaddy ]

This message was posted over the weekend on a Gay Men's Health Group of yahoo. I wonder if there's more unsafe sex in our leather community than in other parts of the community.
^^^

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Msg #
From: "Mark" <mpbehar@w...>
Date: Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:10 am
Subject: Aggressive HIV, Video Shot at IML, and New Approaches...

ADVERTISEMENT


Hello!
I guess I shouldn't be surprised to have heard the following news
item on NPR on 2/12/05 (CNN report below). A friend had shared an
amateur video tape made at last year's IML (International Mr.
Leather) in Chicago, in which several guys (one in particular) are
repeatedly f**ked without condoms, and where cum is in fact
ejaculated at and in the anus and used as lubricant for further
f**king. Now I have no information about the health status of any of
these guys (and the video is HOT), but we do need to reassess what so
many gay men are still doing, especially at venues like IML that
attract lots of horny men, some of whom may use crystal, viagra, and
a bunch of other drugs to highlight their sexual experience during
the IML weekend.

Back in the 1970s, before AIDS, many of our gay health clinics of the
day pioneered novel approaches in testing, education, and treatment
of gonorrhea, syphilis, hepatitis B, etc. We have to reinvigorate
our creative energies to find radical and novel approaches to prevent
the decimation of more of our gay brothers! What we're doing now
isn't working for everyone.

Can anyone who attended IML comment?

--Mark

[ February 14, 2005, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: MPetrelis ]

I think its better to tell them upfront. In my own case, dating has been really, really, really, (did I mention really) horrible. My best friend was positive and cheated with my bf, who did not tell me. I take the full blame because I did not use protection. We had been together for 5 years and went through the our cermony and exchanged rings, the whole nine yards. Ive dated a few guys, and I was upfront with them. They never called back. It does hurt, but ive been though much worse.. next.

See, I don't understand why guys wouldn't be up front when putting themselves out there for a possible commitment. It's selfish not to disclose something that big when you are dealing with someone else's heart and emotions.

The way I see it is.. sure they might reject you, but you are dealing with something much more important in your life than rejection. Its makes you stronger and if they cant or dont want to deal with it, then let it go.

I'd say there are two people who deserve at least 99.999999 percent of the blame, and neither of these people are you.

Joe

Thanx for the post Joe, I appreciate it. But.. in the scheme of things. I should have known better. Im 29, college grad, good job. I knew better than to have sex without a condom. I dont hate either of them, in fact I have forgiven them. No need to hate, it takes up too much time and effort.
But for the topic at hand, its a good idea to be upfront. Honesty is the best policy.

Ok, you've disclosed your HIV status. The problem is you never asked me out on a date! wink

who said I want to date you KWG--I want to make you my bitch

big difference!

love ya!

eek! eek! eek!

what?

I am currently serving time as Bballrob's bitch due to my Canes choking against VaTech. You'll have to wait until that sentence is completed.

I'll wait as long as you want baby

so much for my serious attempt at a thought provoking thread

Sorry if I hijacked your thread. My response was meant to show my attitude of "ok, you told me you're positive; now let's move on to what the rest of you is about."

I've been in relationships with several poz people, and I think that it's your right to disclose when you feel you're ready, as long as it's prior to intimate contact. If it's the first thing out of your mouth, ok; if you don't disclose it until later on in the getting-to-know-each-other process, ok.

I know it's an absolute deal-killer for some, but for me it's simply one aspect of a person's being. I'm not willing to miss out on the possibility of getting to know a great person simply because they have a medical condition.

Serious enough for ya?

Sadly, you have a long wait. With VT beating Miami for the next few seasons in a row, maybe 2009 you will get your chance.

On the more serious note, I know that the issue is an important one to you, it would be to me in the same circumstance. I would want the guy to talk about it only when he is comfortable enough to be completely honest. I agree with KWG, it is part of the person's makeup and personality, it cannot help but be there, but it sure should not be the make or break issue of a relationship, and certainly not of a date.

I seriously thought about the issue after my partner died. Could I date someone who was positive and there was a definite possibility that he would die before me, leaving me widowed for a second time? At first, during the recovery process of my own loss, I said no, I couldn't go through that again. But I have changed my mind on the subject, if I like someone, the HIV status of that person should have no bearing on whether I date him.

thanks sweetie

you guys sound very open minded and that's a good thing. I know ill find someone in time, im not too worried, but its a hard pill to swallow when guys talk to you, think u are attractive etc.. then never call back when I disclose to them.

Was that directed at me or Rob? wink

Exactly. Very well said. I just know that if I started to have feelings for a guy who is Poz and he delayed telling me that, it would be hard to say what my reaction would be. Probably heartbreak, mistrust, and sadness because I could never intentionally put myself at risk like that. At least if he were to tell me early on before those big feelings set in, we would know where the relationship was headed.

This thread made me recall when I had initally met my ex, and the subject came up very early in our getting to know each other as he was positive. I want to say like the second date. And I also recall that I was still interested in him, and we moved forward.

I can't imagine keeping it quiet for very long. I take meds every day and I keep them in my kitchen cabinet and anyone looking for a glass would see them.

And you would have to explain why you're going to the doctor every three months

[ February 17, 2005, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: theodoresdaddy ]

Hey guys. I've been positive now for about 15 years (testing positive in my very early 20's). So, I've had to deal with HIV and dating for a long time. In my experience it is always best for me to tell a guy right up front I'm HIV positive. Sometimes it doesn't work out, and other times it does. For me it is best to find out how someone feels about me being positive before anything happens. My attitude: If he is HIV-phobic then I'm better off without him in my life anyway.

HIV is part of who I am these days, just like my blue eyes, my blond hair, my obsessive baseball watching. It ultimately can't be hidden if I am involved with anyone.

I can understand someone not wanting to get involved with an HIV positive guy. Further, I have questioned myself whether I want to get involved with anyone HIV negative.

But whatever anyone decides....honesty is always the best policy!

Just my thought...thanks.

well said Brian:)

I know that I've had doubts about getting involved with negative guys as well

but why should I automatically reject someone for their HIV status--isn't that some negative people are guilty of with people who are poz

I think most people don't know how they'd REALLY respond in a situation until put into that situation, whatever it may be. I can easily see where at one point in my life that I'd have been skeptical about dating a + dude. But then I went and started having feelings for a guy BEFORE I found out about his + status. It was a no brainer...his status didn't matter to me. Unfortunately we only turned out to be good friends, but it has at least shown me that status is not an issue for me.

I think we all have the "list" of things we like in a guy. Some people like them hairy, smooth, tall, short, muscular, skinny or heavy. I think HIV is just another on that list. Meeting the "right guy" that you have chemistry with can completely change that list you normally look for in someone.

I understand that HIV has a lot of implications, especially for someone who is negative. I don't get offended by someone that doesn't want to date or have sex with me because I'm positive. Being HIV positive is just not something they can deal with, and it would be best for them (and me) to deal with this issue before getting involved/have sex with me. I think sometimes we are too hard on guys that are just being honest with what they are comfortable with. (Once they got to know me they could have just as easily decided not to go out with me because I love sports and can't stand "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy".)

I also have my reasons for not wanting to get involved with a negative guy. Of course, that is not going to stop me if I meet a negative guy and he blows me away. But my reasoning is this: If I ever gave anyone, especially my partner in life, HIV; I'm not sure I could survive that.

where to find, tall, athletic, hairy, older positive men? lol- I guess im SOL