Outsports Discussion Board > Male body image: East Doesn't Meet West

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fantomas

Mar 16 2005, 07:07 PM

I heard about this on NPR this evening and hunted down the original report. What do you guys think?

Male body image: East doesn't meet West

A snippet:

QUOTE

Asian men show less dissatisfaction with their bodies than males in the United States and Europe, according to a Harvard study. This may explain why anabolic steroid abuse is much less prevalent in places like Taiwan than in the United States, Europe, and Australia, the researchers found.

\"Disorders of body image, including a pathological preoccupation with muscularity, are growing increasingly common among Western males, notes Chi-Fu Jeffrey Yang, a Harvard senior. \"By contrast, such male body-image problems appear to be rare in Asian societies.\"

\"Our findings suggest that Western men have a distorted view of what they ideally should look like, whereas men in Taiwan don't seem to have this problem,\" says Harrison Pope Jr., a professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. When tested, Western men guessed that women prefer a \"buff\" body with 20-30 pounds more muscle than average. But when women were asked to choose their preferences, they picked male bodies much closer to average.

Pope also heads the Biological Psychiatry Laboratory at McLean Hospital, a Harvard Medical affiliate in Belmont, Mass. A few years ago, he and several colleagues gave a computerized test to male college students in the United States, France, and Austria. The students could adjust images of male bodies through 10 layers of muscle and 10 levels of fat. Asked to build bodies they thought would attract women, the males consistently layered on a lot more muscle than females preferred when they looked at the images. The Leonardo DiCaprio types were judged more appealing than the Sylvester Stallones.

sportinlife

Mar 16 2005, 07:36 PM

Nutrition differences may be one reason that western males find it more difficult to achieve their ideal body. Our primary grain starch is processed low nutrition wheat. Eastern males eat more rice. I find I control my weight and tone better by eating rice instead of wheat. We may also get more food additives that encourage consumption of low nutrition products with little flavor (seasoning). Perhaps the reason eastern restaurants are so popular is that they do season foods. We often cook at home w/ herbs.

Mar 16 2005, 07:43 PM

I think the emphasis on highly developed muscles as the standard of male beauty in the Western world is a relatively recent development. It's startling to look at the "manly figures" of Hollywood stars of the 40's and 50's. Typical male actors today have bulkier muscles than Johnny Weissmuller.

fantomas

Mar 16 2005, 08:13 PM

QUOTE

JC:
I think the emphasis on highly developed muscles as the standard of male beauty in the Western world is a relatively recent development. It's startling to look at the \"manly figures\" of Hollywood stars of the 40's and 50's. Typical male actors today have bulkier muscles than Johnny Weissmuller.

JC, it's even more recent than that. Look at the male film icons or major athletes (including boxers and football players) of the 1960s, 1970s and early 1980s; in general they were leaner and, though muscled, not anything like the depictions of today. Barry Bonds alone exemplifies this; he used to have a body more like George Brett's or Reggie Jackson's, but by the late 1990s, he had become a muscle man, with a larger head. McGwire was always big, but he turned into a behemoth, etc. The same is true if you look at male images in gay magazines up through the 1980s--notice the prevalence of leaner, fitter body types versus what you see in similar magazines today.

Another thing about this article is that it focuses on what women desire versus men's impressions, but says little about gay men's body ideal. Harrison Pope has written a book called The Adonis Complex, so I wonder if he looks specifically at gay men. In thinking about some of the gay Japanese imagery I've seen, the men are depicted (drawn) as extremely muscular (and often European-looking), so I'd love to know more about any studies of gay East Asian views of body type and ideals.

Finally, at the end of the article, it notes that where television (broadcasting Western imagery) has appeared, anxiety has arisen. I know this is the case in other parts of the world where Western (especially Hollywood) imagery has played a strong role in shaping individual self-perceptions (skin-whitening in Ghana; eyelid surgery in South Korea; etc.), so I'd also be interested in hearing/learning more about this.

Erik G

Mar 16 2005, 09:14 PM

I think Sport has got this threaded in the right direction.

Basically I find that if I can eat well and timely, I have little trouble staying fit. If I really watch the overtraining, I do not have to workout other than physical therapy. Not messing up your natural sleep/anabolic cycles is a trick too. Even still you have to have the genetics to allow you to be able to get the muscle there in those proportions in the first place.

I don't know, I am only a third generation immigrant. I still have that Eastern Euroboy look to me wink Now if I could only make the jump from a four-pack to a six-pack. Then I know I would be "hot"

sportinlife

Mar 17 2005, 03:42 AM

QUOTE

I know this is the case in other parts of the world where Western (especially Hollywood) imagery has played a strong role in shaping individual self-perceptions (skin-whitening in Ghana; eyelid surgery in South Korea; etc.), so I'd also be interested in hearing/learning more about this.

Good point. Self-perception has a lot to do with it. Maybe one day the entire world will want to have almond-shaped eyes and yellow skin. Peoples, like individuals, often mimic the appearance of idols.

maxallen

Mar 17 2005, 06:34 AM

I don't think the male body image obsession is limited to the U.S. though, although it's probably more noticeable here because of the extremes we see, of very obese people and very fit people.

I have friends from Brazil, who tell me that the gym-going/body-worshiping culture there is just as pronounced, it not more so, as it is here. I also recall seeing news items about Argentina (probably before their economic collapse), and the body obsession of people there. When we make our annual trip to Mexico, many of the locals are just as gym-going as men here.

And what about Australia -- I don't know if they're body-obsessed or if they just all have great bodies, but yowza! Also I've read that men in India, thanks to Bollywood movies, are becoming gym bunnies.

I know these are also "Western" countries (except for India), but I'm just sayin I don't think it's only the U.S.

bobby78751

Mar 17 2005, 07:36 AM

I have had serious body-image issues in the past (and still do sometimes). I sometimes think I am way too skinny but my friends tell me I am just fine the way I am and remind me of my BMI of 21. But, I still go thru periods where I think very badly of myself and my physical appearance.

Gaga4Gaby

Mar 17 2005, 07:52 AM

I thought this thread was gonna be about East Coast/West Coast ... like a rap war or something. Really!

Sexuality in general becomes more and more prevalent in popular culture each year ... it's everywhere you turn now, from music to magazines to billboards. Women have been flooded with images of an unattainable ideal for much longer, but the rise of male models and male sex symbols has caught up with the general population and now men are just as bombarded with images of uber-studs that they want to try and achieve/live up to. I think that's where it comes from.

HotlantaTarheel

Mar 17 2005, 11:52 AM

QUOTE

Nutrition differences may be one reason that western males find it more difficult to achieve their ideal body. Our primary grain starch is processed low nutrition wheat. Eastern males eat more rice.

Sportinlife, be careful when making generalizations such as these, they can be a tad bit stereotypical. Rice vs. wheat isn't so much a eastern/western occurrance as it is tropical vs. temperate one. A common misconception is that all Asians eat rice and therefore are thin and fit. However, wheat is also a primary food staple of cooler regions of Asia and Africa such as the northern half of China, South Africa, and Algeria. Then there are also a number of tropical nations where corn is the main stable and neither rice nor wheat are prevelant.

But I do agree with your suggestion that our overall diets and culture have a profound effect on our bodies. Food in this nation tends to be relatively cheap, abundant, easily obtained, and high in fat.

fantomas

Mar 17 2005, 12:46 PM

QUOTE

maxallen:
I don't think the male body image obsession is limited to the U.S. though, although it's probably more noticeable here because of the extremes we see, of very obese people and very fit people.

Did you read the article? It specifically mentions Austria and other countries, not just the US.

Sportinlife, I think the issue is what constitutes a body "ideal," not so much what sort of diet may or may not help one attain it. As others have said, not all Asians eat rice, and many people in the US do eat more of a rice vs. wheat-based diet. Yet even in Europe where wheat-based diets are strong, the levels and rates of obesity are lower; it is the preponderance of sodas, fast foods, the lack of exercise, etc., that are causing problems here. What's ironic is that we fixate on ultramuscular bodies as we're getting fatter and fatter, at increasingly younger ages, as a nation.

I've visited Brazil a number of times, and while the body cult has certainly gripped Rio and São Paulo, it has less sway in the far South (the richest part of Brazil) and poor northeastern regions. In an interview with the head of the Grupo Gay da Bahia, he notes that a lot of Euro-American ideas are filtering down there, including stuff like barebacking, but they haven't taken firm hold yet. I can't speak that much about Australia or Mexico; I've been to the latter, though, I can say, the men I saw in Mexico City were either of normal size (not especially muscular) or plump. But I saw few ultrabuff guys like I'd see in some U.S. cities.

danimal

Mar 18 2005, 12:35 PM

QUOTE

HotlantaTarheel:
But I do agree with your suggestion that our overall diets and culture have a profound effect on our bodies. Food in this nation tends to be relatively cheap, abundant, easily obtained, and high in fat.

Exactly. How many of us have to work in the fields all day for our supper, the way many of our chowhound ancestors did? Walking to the car to go to the drive-through is about as much exercise as many Americans get these days.

The same ad industry that pushes Easy(!), Convenient(!), Fast(!) food also pushes buff male (and twiggy-starved female) models to sell everything but (and even sometimes) food with their Sex(!) Appeal. Ditto for TV, movies, etc. Modern culture is so schizo about this stuff.

Jorel

Mar 18 2005, 12:53 PM

IMHO, the ideal body, both male and female is promoted to us primarily by the media and the entertainment industry. Most movies, TV shows, magazines, video games, etc. all seem to involve beautiful people.

But if you look at the overall health of people in the U.S, it's the opposite of what the media shows us. Things like fast food restaurants, Costco, restaurant portion sizes and the lack of interest in exercise reveals a huge reality check.

I've also read that children in the U.S. are very overweight. So even though the media in this country shows the world one thing, it is not a true reflection of what's really going on.

Lastly, the newest alternative to exercise seems to be cosmetic surgery.

sportinlife

Mar 18 2005, 02:54 PM

QUOTE

HotlantaTarheel:
Sportinlife, be careful when making generalizations such as these

Agreed. But there is evidence showing that immigrants converting to our average diet become more obese.

I hadn't intended to change fantomas topic which is more concerned with 'self-perceptions' than with nutrition. Rather I was suggesting that achieving that idea body often depends on diet as well as peer-pressure.

Not only do peoples bodies change when their environment changes, but also their 'perception' of what their body should look like may change as well. How they want others to see them may change based on what they see around them as normal.

Erik G

Mar 18 2005, 10:14 PM

I get my idea of ideal male body type from a Kristen Bjorn film with a Hungarian wrestler losing his virtue in one scene. But thats just me losing my virtue also

I may have to watch that again just to make sure I wasn't hallucinating and being taken advantage of wink
All lecherousness aside, I see this body-type thing as a problem for a certain demographic. A demographic that actually is convinced that they can achieve the UNREALISTIC ideal by buying products and going to the gym. No matter how hard I try, I am not going to be a tall dark and handsome men's fashion model. So I will have to settle for something it the 5'9" brown hair blue eyed range. Something that is at least physically possible. Maybe a towel boy on the set of a Bjorn film

I think that's a LOL

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