George Twins fan
Jan 29 2003, 05:06 PM
Colts kicker Mike Vanderjadt has a real lack of enthusiasm for the styles of head coach Tony Dungy and QB Peyton Manning. Not so sure he doesn't have some valid points. But I just don't think too many people will take a kicker's assessment all too seriously. And how will this impact the team next season?
QUOTE
Indianapolis Colts kicker Mike Vanderjagt says star quarterback Peyton Manning must show more emotion, coach Tony Dungy is too nice and many players on the NFL team lack passion.
\"I'm not a real big Colts fan right now, unfortunately,\" the Canadian kicker told The Score, a Toronto-based cable sports TV network. \"I just don't see us getting better.\"
The 10-6 Colts' season ended with an embarrassing 41-0 road loss to the New York Jets in the AFC wild-card game.
The loss dropped Manning's NFL postseason playoff record to 0-3, which Vanderjagt said justified talk that Manning can't win the big game.
\"All week before the Jets game I'm like, '(No.) 18, we're going to handle it, me and you we're going to win this game.' And he's like, 'Yeah, yeah, OK.'
\"And I'm like, 'Peyton, show some enthusiasm, you're the quarterback and we need to win this game.' I just don't see it from him.\"
Vanderjagt said the Colts' offense desperately needed a fiery, smashmouth leader.
\"We need somebody who is going to get in people's face and yell and scream,\" said Vanderjagt, who joined the Colts in 1998. \"I've gone over there to the offense and said, 'Come on.'
\"They're just like, 'Mike, go sit down. You're the kicker.' I have more emotion probably than anybody. I want to win, I want to win bad. When I miss a field goal I bang my helmet because I hate being imperfect and I can't tolerate watching 11 guys just walk off the field after you get stuffed and really show that you don't care. That is frustrating to me.\"
In his first season with Indianapolis, Dungy transformed the team into a playoff squad, but Vanderjagt felt Dungy was too laid back to make the Colts a Super Bowl contender.
\"Coach Dungy, he's just a mild-mannered guy. He doesn't get too excited, he doesn't get too down and I don't think that works either.
\"I think you need a motivator, I think you need a guy that is going to get in somebody's face when they're not performing well enough. Peyton and Tony are basically the same guy. They work hard, they mark their Xs and Os and go out and execute. If it doesn't happen, there's nothing we can do about it.\"
Vanderjagt signed a $7.75 million, five-year contract extension with the Colts in November 2000 that made him the NFL's highest-paid kicker at the time.
MSUBulldog
Jan 29 2003, 05:32 PM
Interesting that these comments come just days after the Buccaneers, the team that Dungy coached until this year, win the Super Bowl. They FINALLY got over the hump, but with a great coach in John Gruden (who in essence helped build 2 Super Bowl teams in 2 years).
Indy Mike
Jan 29 2003, 06:30 PM
I'm very interested to find out how this plays out here in Indy over the next few days. Dungy and Manning both get very little local criticism compared to coaches and QBs in other cities, but I'm wondering if this will open up the floodgates that I think have been building up for the last year--at least with Manning. Vanderjagt is also pretty popular around here, especially after the Denver game but he had a rough season before then so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
sportinlife
Jan 29 2003, 06:47 PM
Judging from this article from the Colts website Dungy seems to think he predicted the strategy of the Bucs:
QUOTE
Dungy Anticipated Tampa Bay Defense Would Dominate
INDIANAPOLIS - Tony Dungy had a feeling days before the Super Bowl that the outcome would be precisely as it occurred.
He had heard too much talk about the Oakland Raiders' game plan.
And he knew too well the strengths of the team he coached for six seasons, a team he helped build from perennial losers to perennial contenders, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
So as Dungy - now entering his second year as the Colts' head coach - watched the Buccaneers beat the Raiders 48-21 Sunday night to win Super Bowl XXXVII, he experienced mixed emotions, but what he didn't experience was much surprise.
\"The game actually turned out the way I thought it was going to turn out,\" Dungy said.
Dungy said that was because the Raiders - the NFL's No. 1 offense - made it clear in the days leading to the game their game plan would be almost exclusively based upon the pass.
Against the Buccaneers, the NFL's No. 1 defense, Dungy believed that plan was fatal.
He was right.
The Buccaneers, who employ the one-gap, Cover 2 scheme Dungy installed in Indianapolis this past season, pressured Raiders quarterback and NFL Most Valuable Player Rich Gannon into his worst game of the season.
The Buccaneers intercepted five passes, which tied a Super Bowl record, and they returned a Super Bowl record three interceptions for touchdowns.
\"That's a tough defense to go against one-dimensionally,\" Dungy said.
The Buccaneers' defense was ranked No. 27 in the NFL in 1995, the year before Dungy took over as head coach. In his six seasons as head coach, they ranked in the Top 10 every season except one. The Buccaneers had made the playoffs twice in their 20-year history before Dungy took over as coach. While he was there, they made the playoffs four times - in 1997, 1999, 2000 and 2001 - and played in the NFC Championship game following the 1999 season.
\"He should get huge amounts of credit,\" Buccaneers fullback Mike Alstott said after Sunday's game. \"He's the coach who got us out of the hole.\"
Wide receiver Keyshawn Johnson said, \"He built this entire football team. Unfortunately, he did not get the opportunity to finish the job.\"
Other Buccaneers players, including perennial Pro Bowl defensive tackle Warren Sapp, credited Dungy with not only building the team but developing them as players.
Dungy's replacement, Jon Gruden, also said Dungy was \"a big reason why we won the Super Bowl.\"
\"It's nice to hear, but it's not really true,\" Dungy said. \"Every year is a new year. What happened last year doesn't really have an effect on what happens the next year. You had Super Bowl teams that didn't make the playoffs this year. It's not because of what happened the year before.
\"I'm flattered by them saying that, but it was really what those guys did this year. They played the most consistent football. They played the best, they won and I think they deserved it.\"
Sixteen of the Buccaneers' 22 starters Sunday played under Dungy, including 10 of the 11 starters defensively. Four of the Buccaneers' defensive coaches - including coordinator Monte Kiffin - coached under Dungy.
\"You're happy for the players you worked with and the coaches you know,\" Dungy said.
Dungy, long considered one of the top defensive coaches in the NFL, said the game was another example of a time-tested NFL formula: winning with stifling defense, quality special teams and mistake-free offense.
\"I don't think the game really changes that much,\" Dungy said. \"If you're a team that plays fairly penalty-free and mistake free and you're a turnover-creating team on defense, you're going to be a pretty good team. If you do that, you're going to win a lot of games and you're going to have a chance to win some Super Bowls.
\"This year, they took advantage of it and won it. It's not a real hard formula for winning. To get it done is what is hard sometimes.\"
Hubris or prescience? Indianapolis has gone from 6-10 last year to 10-6. I doubt Dungy has much to worry about yet.
Tim
Jan 30 2003, 04:49 PM
Hey Sport-the main reason the Colts were 10-6 this year,is that they were 6-10 last year and were rewarded with a weaker schedule.The defense improved because it couldn't get any worse,but they didn't exactly shut down any offensive powerhouses.The Colts are a paper tiger-their offense struggles vs great defenses and their defense struggles vs potent offenses,esp smashmouth teams that just overpower them physically.They suffer from unralistic expectations for the talent they have. Ironically, Mike V is probably the top-ranked talent at a particular position that they have on the team.When it comes down to crunch time and I'm rooting for the Colts to lose (like I ALWAYS do), the man I always fear most is Vandy.Not only is he the resident hottie, (since Dilger left) but he has incredible range and is tough as nails.
As to his comments-he's probably right esp. with regards to Peyton. I think Peyton is a great guy and a total asset to the community.He's been on Bob and Tom a number of times and has a great sense of humour.However,I don't think he's capable of winning a championship on a team that has to depend on him He couldn't win the big game at Tenn,and I don't think he's capable of doing it at Indy either.The window of oppty is closing fast for the current Colts and they still have a long way to go.My guess is that Dungy's best shot was with the Bucs,but that his offensive limits precluded them winning with him at the helm.He took them a long,long way but ultimately he reached his limit-they NEEDED Chucky to get over the top.
Adam
Jan 30 2003, 07:17 PM
Whenever a player makes public comments about a teammate I wonder if he is speaking for himself only or is he saying what many on the team are saying privately and want to say publicly. I would bet Vanderjadt will be gone from Indianapolis by the start of training camp, but wouldn't be surprised to see Manning more visibly emotional about the games.
~Adam
Jim Allen
Jan 31 2003, 06:42 PM
He's already expressed regret at his comments etc. You know the routine; at least he didn't play the "I was misquoted" card.
But maybe it's the kick in the ass the Dolts so desperately need before they move to Los Angeles.
Jim at Outsports
Jan 31 2003, 07:15 PM
Remember, it was Vanderjagt who missed an overtime field goal that would have beaten Miami in the 2000 wild card game, a drive engineered by Manning (who staked the Colts to a 14-point lead their defense couldn't hold).
And it was Vanderjagt who shanked a playoff field goal this year against the Jets in the first quarter when the game was still in play.
And it's Vanderjagt whose field goal % has dropped each of the past three years.
Maybe he needs to look in the mirror.
[ January 31, 2003, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: Jim at Outsports ]
Joe in Philly
Jan 31 2003, 10:02 PM
QUOTE
Jim Allen:
He's already expressed regret at his comments etc. You know the routine; at least he didn't play the \"I was misquoted\" card.
He couldn't. It happened on a TV show. D'oh!
ESPN's website earlier today had a poll on what would be a suitable punishment for Vanderjagt. Among the choices were acting lessons from Joe Nedney and dancing lessons from Brad Johnson. In second place at the time I looked was "nothing--he was right."
Cyd at Outsports
Jan 31 2003, 11:06 PM
I think Vanderjagt's right. Good for him for speaking his mind. I like Dungy & Manning, but neither of them seem like champions to me. Just a bad combination. We'll see.
Cyd hit the nail on the head. What's not to like about Peyton and Tony?They are both talented, dedicated guys who are as big an asset off the field as on.But neither one fits into the category of special compared to their peers aound the league.If the Dolts ever win a championship it'll be after they move to LA.
phillyrunner
Feb 1 2003, 09:09 AM
I thought it was funny when Peyton Manning was being interviewed on what he thought about the comments coming from a kicker. He said something to the effect of "It's like the ballboy telling the star hitter about having a bad game". Then he said oh I better not say it too loud cause Vineteri might hear me across the field. (The interview was in Hawaii during Pro bowl week)
Theo
Feb 1 2003, 01:08 PM
I don't care if Manning or Dungy aren't championship material to Vanderjagt, you can't just put your mouth on everything. People need to learn when to shut up and take things behind closed doors. I'll put money on it than Vanderjagt hadn't said diddly squat to either of them prior to this incident.
Charlie in the Trees
Feb 1 2003, 10:25 PM
QUOTE
Jim at Outsports:
Remember, it was Vanderjagt who missed an overtime field goal that would have beaten Miami in the 2000 wild card game . . . And it was Vanderjagt who shanked a playoff field goal this year against the Jets in the first quarter when the game was still in play ... And it's Vanderjagt whose field goal % has dropped each of the past three years.
Whewwww-ewww, somebody's girlfriend's getting picked on. So if Vander Jagt had been on top of his game, the Colts would've lost to the Jets only 41-3???? That'll teach him.
Jim, you used to be a political reporter, so I know you're familiar with the old saying among political journalists that "a gaffe is when a politician speaks the truth." Vander Jagt committed a gaffe. He shouldn't have said it. But it's true.
Neither Dungy nor Peytie are acquitting themselves well in this situation. Dungy's first response was saying something to the clear effect that Vander Jagt is off the team. I know you can't keep a replaceable player on the team after he calls out the head coach like that, but Dungy shouldn't have made himself look so pathetically insecure. Whatever happened to "no comment," a response that would've been more manacing than a trade threat.
As for Manning, comparing a kicker with a ball boy was totally classless, and insulting. I've thought that Peytie is the perfect candidate for Bill Simmons's notorious and trademarked "Ewing Theory." It's already happened once in Manning's career: the Tennessee Volunteers won the national championship (with Tee Martin quarterbacking!) the year AFTER Manning graduated. The Colts will go deep in the playoffs the first time Manning goes down with a season-ending injury, just watch. Gratuitouysly insulting teammates, even kickers, AFTER they've apologized to you is not leadership and Peyton Manning will never be a leader.
Where will Mike Vander Jagt end up? He's not going to be playing for the Colts next year, no way.
I'd love to see him wind up with the kicker-deprived Pittsburgh Steelers. He won't be complaining about coaching intensity with Cowher on the sidelines. And I think Cowher and the Steeler players would love the attitude of a kicker that's got the cojones to call out a wussy-wimp of a QB.
sportinlife
Feb 2 2003, 11:49 AM
Dungy will always have to bear the responsibility for not focusing on the Buc offense as well as he did the defense. I think he may have learned that too late.
But the old saw that defenses win games is losing it's teeth.
The team that scores the most points will always win as long as anybody scores a point.
Like Cyd said, we'll see whether Dungy learns.
NFLJockGuy
Feb 2 2003, 04:35 PM
LOLOL!!
Watchin' the Pro Bowl live and Manning just was asked about the remarks and called Vanderjadt an "idiot kicker" about four times....and once as a "boozed-up idiot kicker"!!
Actually he said "lickered up,idiot kicker" and came off sounding like the idiot,imho.I agree with Charlie about Peyton coming off as classless and not acquitting himself well.I think it's pretty diversionary of him to try and cast aspersions on Vanderjagdt's character,because if I was a Colt's fan I'd lay a great deal of responsibility at Manning's feet also.There's a reason the Vols always lost to the Gators and won the NCAA title the year AFTER Manning graduated.Manning may be tired of dealing with questions about his ability to win "The Big Game",but trying to shift the blame to Vandy is not going to make those questions disappear.Only time will tell for sure-my personal opinion is that Vandy (if he leaves the Colts) will have a better oppty to play for a world title than either Dungy or Manning.
Jim at Outsports
Feb 2 2003, 11:13 PM
You go, Peyton! Vanderjagt wanted to see some fire and he saw some.
[ February 02, 2003, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: Jim at Outsports ]
sportinlife
Feb 3 2003, 07:37 AM
To bad the Colts left Baltimore. It would be worth a drive down to a game just to see the smoke from all these fireworks.
This could have inspired the writing of another "Star Spangled Banner".
What a hoot!
Joe in Philly
Feb 3 2003, 08:23 PM
Is this going to end up with the Colts needing a new kicker? I think that's pretty dumb if it happens. It's not easy finding a good kicker. And Manning saying he's "liquored-up" only adds fuel to the fire, not to mention it makes Manning sound like one of the Clampetts. "Liquored-up"?
Jim at Outsports
Feb 3 2003, 11:00 PM
Love this from CNN/SI.com:
"Manning stands in the pocket and takes helmets in the rib cage from 300-pound human projectiles, Mike. You swing your leg. Dungy spends dozens of hours each week poring over game film and devising offensive and defensive schemes, taking responsibility for the performance of every player on the Colts' roster, Mike. You swing your leg. The guys who are fighter pilots shouldn't be criticized by the guys who fuel up the plane."
Marc
Feb 3 2003, 11:00 PM
I was surprised and disappointed to hear Manning make those comments at the Pro Bowl...I really thought he had more class than that.
theodoresdaddy
Feb 4 2003, 12:39 AM
Pittsburgh would a sort of a homecoming for Vanderjadt. He played his college ball at WVU.
Anyone who has spent anytime in West Virginia can tell you that you can take the boy out of the hills but you can't take the hills out of the boy. Once a Mountaineer, always a Mountaineer!
He'll be gone from Indianapolis, or either Manning and Dungee will. I'm sure Vandy's salary is a lot less than either of those two and it might be a nice way for the owners to cut some costs
Charlie in the Trees
Feb 4 2003, 08:28 AM
Vander Jagt's gone. The Colts decided to protect Little Peytie's bruised ego by quickly signing inferior and injured kicker BRETT CONWAY (late, very late, of the R*sk*ns).
Can't wait for the Colts to lose their first game on a missed FG.
sportinlife
Feb 4 2003, 09:04 AM
QUOTE
theodoresdaddy:
I'm sure Vandy's salary is a lot less than either of those two and it might be a nice way for the owners to cut some costs
According to the NYTimes:
QUOTE
A five-year, $7.75 million contract extension Vanderjagt signed in 2000 made him the highest-paid kicker in the N.F.L.
I think Vandy blew it.
Theo
Feb 4 2003, 09:14 AM
More than not seem to think that Liquered the Kicker should have taken what he said behind closed doors and not to the media. Even former kicker Kevin Butler was ripping him for being so stupid to say such things publicly. As I heard someone say earlier, yes we have freedom of speech but with that comes responsibility of know what to say and when. No one is down on Vandy for his opinion because we all have one; it just speaks volumes of a low couth factor when common sense and good judgment played no part in his decision making. He's bitten the hand that once fed him.
Maybe Vandy can
take a page from Jason Elam's book. I've never heard a peep from him and he just signed a hefty new contract.
[ February 04, 2003, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: Theo ]
George Twins fan
Feb 4 2003, 11:44 AM
Bottom line to me is that Vanderjadt is pretty much on the money with his assessment of Dungy and Manning. His mistake was bringing it up publicly. And Manning's response, while at least it showed a little bit of fire, was pretty much on par with a 4th grader.
I like Manning and I like Dungy. I hope they prove Vanderjadt wrong. But they just seem too passive.
George (as usual) you are right on target with your assesment of Manning's comments.Some might describe them as sophmoric,but your characterization of them as "on par with a fourth grader", is nothing short of brilliant!
Wish I'd thought of it. :cool:
Zman
Feb 5 2003, 08:13 AM
Mike's right. Manning is a nice guy but he's a puss. He has never won a big game and doesn't show the type of emotion you need to rally a team to do so. Mike has missed kicks but at least you know he's pissed about it. Manning and Dungy are good enough to make you better but not enough to get you over the top. Manning leaves Tennessee and they win the national championship the year after. Dungy leaves the Bucs and bam, they are champs.
Z
DCBucky
Feb 5 2003, 08:20 AM
Here's a fun piece of meaningless trivia: Vanderjagt served as Tony Danza's stunt double in the movie, "The Garbage Picking, Field Goal Kicking Philadelphia Phenomenon." hmmmmm, Tony Danza ... (in my best Homer voice!)
George Twins fan
Feb 5 2003, 08:29 AM
Wow! That is perhaps the single most meaningless bit of trivia I've ever heard! LOL!!!
Too funny!
When Tony gets his Lifetime Achievement Emmy, I'll bet the clip from that flick will dominate his career highlight reel! wink
OlympicFan
Feb 15 2003, 11:28 AM
I've noticed a strong resemblance between Vanderjagt and Bert Lahr (a.k.a The Cowardly Lion from the movie The Wizard of Oz).
Do you see it?
Theo
Feb 15 2003, 01:46 PM
Too funny!!!!
sportinlife
Feb 15 2003, 03:40 PM
How about
this face after kicking a winning field goal against the Ravens?
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