The New York Mets continued to look like a bad little league team in the field when they committed 5 errors leading to 6 unearned runs in their 9-8 loss Saturday to Montreal....Former gold glove "good field", no hit SS Rey Ordonez committed 3 errors himself in Saturday's game and 1B John Valentin, starting only his 2nd game of his career at first, continued his trend of committing an error in each game he plays....the Mets now have 14 errors in 11 games and this is largely without "slick-fielding" Mo Vaughn, whose physique better resembles an offensive lineman (has he reached 350 pounds yet? ) and is NOT known for his fielding expertise.
At this rate the Mets are on pace for a record 206 errors and no matter how much offense is provided by their new acquisitions of Vaughn (.176 avg prior to his injury), Alomar (.170), or Valentin (.188) in support of Piazza (.194), New York is likely to be closer to the bottom of the NL East than the division title at seasons end.
Bobby Valentine is not having a much better season managing than most of his hitters or fielders, either, as he was forced to use Sunday's starting pitcher Steve Trachsel as a pinch hitter in the bottom of the 11th (for loser Scott Strickland) due to the fact that he had already used EVERY non-pitcher in the first 10 innings....the Expos, managed by Hall-of-Famer Frank Robinson, are now tied for 1st place in the NL East after Saturday's win.
Full Version: The Worst Fielding Team Money Can Buy
The Yankees are runners up for this distinguished award. They have the most errors in the AL. Even though they were not charged with any errors today, Robin Ventura threw two away that should have been outs, and Enrique Wilson (in for Alfonso Soriano who has his own throwing problems) threw one away on an easy double play ball. These plays led to at least 3 runs by the Red Sox and helped them win.
Wow. Could it be that the ghost of Lil' Chuckie Knoblauch is haunting the entire city of New York?
[quote]Originally posted by pat125:
The Yankees are runners up for this distinguished award. They have the most errors in the AL. Even though they were not charged with any errors today, Robin Ventura threw two away that should have been outs, and Enrique Wilson (in for Alfonso Soriano who has his own throwing problems) threw one away on an easy double play ball. These plays led to at least 3 runs by the Red Sox and helped them win.
Yeah, a weird game today ... how often do the Yankees lose a game on a blown Mariano Rivera save and Soriano getting thrown out trying to steal??? Maybe some of the Sox are chummy with the official scorer, because how those two Ventura throw(away)s were not counted as errors is beyond me. I know you can't count a blown DP, no matter how make-able, as an error, but if ever an exception should be granted, it was Enrique Wilson's blown throw.
During the 4-game series at this time last year, Manny Ramirez hit a 2-run single off Rivera to win the game in the 9th. It's one thing for Manny Ramirez to get a game-winning hit off the great Mariano Rivera, but Shea Hillenbrand? I'm just hoping Shea lives up to his potential, or at least the potential I see in him. From pretty early on last season, I thought this guy showed A LOT of raw talent, but he was still awfully green having come up straight from Double-A. Watch out for Shea Hillenbrand - if not for his play, then because he's kinda cute and has the most incredible bubble butt.
I still can't get used to watching Mariano Rivera blow a save. I know it's gotta happen every once in a while - the guy's only human after all - but he had been so untouchable for so long. Definitely a weird game today, but I liked the outcome ...
The Yankees are runners up for this distinguished award. They have the most errors in the AL. Even though they were not charged with any errors today, Robin Ventura threw two away that should have been outs, and Enrique Wilson (in for Alfonso Soriano who has his own throwing problems) threw one away on an easy double play ball. These plays led to at least 3 runs by the Red Sox and helped them win.
Yeah, a weird game today ... how often do the Yankees lose a game on a blown Mariano Rivera save and Soriano getting thrown out trying to steal??? Maybe some of the Sox are chummy with the official scorer, because how those two Ventura throw(away)s were not counted as errors is beyond me. I know you can't count a blown DP, no matter how make-able, as an error, but if ever an exception should be granted, it was Enrique Wilson's blown throw.
During the 4-game series at this time last year, Manny Ramirez hit a 2-run single off Rivera to win the game in the 9th. It's one thing for Manny Ramirez to get a game-winning hit off the great Mariano Rivera, but Shea Hillenbrand? I'm just hoping Shea lives up to his potential, or at least the potential I see in him. From pretty early on last season, I thought this guy showed A LOT of raw talent, but he was still awfully green having come up straight from Double-A. Watch out for Shea Hillenbrand - if not for his play, then because he's kinda cute and has the most incredible bubble butt.
I still can't get used to watching Mariano Rivera blow a save. I know it's gotta happen every once in a while - the guy's only human after all - but he had been so untouchable for so long. Definitely a weird game today, but I liked the outcome ...
Teams that have that poor of a defense, usually don;t make it far into the post season...if they make it at all. And I, for one couldn't be happier about it!
My team, the D-Backs, had a pretty good fielding team last year (save Womack), but this year, they need to find a place for Durazo (when he gets healthy), because they need his stick (put your own sarcastic remark here), which will undoubtedly make the defense suffer. So we might find ourselves in the same boat as you guys!
So buck up and keep Mo Vaughn's hands of the haagen-dazs.
My team, the D-Backs, had a pretty good fielding team last year (save Womack), but this year, they need to find a place for Durazo (when he gets healthy), because they need his stick (put your own sarcastic remark here), which will undoubtedly make the defense suffer. So we might find ourselves in the same boat as you guys!
So buck up and keep Mo Vaughn's hands of the haagen-dazs.
My Mets stink so far!
5 errors, 6 unearned runs...Sheesh!
In 1999, Rey O had 4 errors; in 10 games so far, he committed 7 errors.
Back to the basics, Mets!!!!!!
5 errors, 6 unearned runs...Sheesh!
In 1999, Rey O had 4 errors; in 10 games so far, he committed 7 errors.
Back to the basics, Mets!!!!!!
Good news though, Skanks, Phillies, and Braves all lost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Braves had 4 errors as well!!!!!!!!!
Braves had 4 errors as well!!!!!!!!!
One correction to point out....the 14 errors by the Mets were PRIOR to Saturday's 5 error debacle -- even though they somehow managed to get thru Sunday's game with zero miscues (possibly helped by the fact that FORMER Gold Glove shortstop Rey Ordonez with his 7 errors in 11 games was benched by Valentine in favor of Joe McEwing) and, not surprisingly, they won the game 6-4 over Montreal....the Mets have still committed a league leading 19 errors through 12 games -- on pace for "only" 256 errors this season.
The whole NL East has been rather mediocre so far. No one's established themselves as a clear favorite and no one's falling out of the race yet.
Gamecock, I will bet you any sum you care to name PLUS my ACLU and Amnesty memberships that the Mets won't make 200 errors this year...
Where are all the geniuses here who said the Mets' pitching was their Achilles heel? Their rotation is second only to SF's thus far, and it's the reason they're 7-5. Obviously the Mets' defense and bats will improve, and the moundsmen aren't this good, but I like their chances for 90 wins.
Blowing out your whole bench by the 11th inning isn't the sign of a bad manager -- not they way robotically bunting (a la Bob Brenly) is!
Where are all the geniuses here who said the Mets' pitching was their Achilles heel? Their rotation is second only to SF's thus far, and it's the reason they're 7-5. Obviously the Mets' defense and bats will improve, and the moundsmen aren't this good, but I like their chances for 90 wins.
Blowing out your whole bench by the 11th inning isn't the sign of a bad manager -- not they way robotically bunting (a la Bob Brenly) is!
BillW, I don't doubt that the Mets will probably NOT make 200 errors this season -- after all, Ordonez is unlikely to total 94 errors himself, which he IS on pace for right now....but I WILL bet you that the Mets will finish in the bottom 3 teams in all of baseball in most errors committed and that Mo Vaughn (if he is still able to fit himself into his XXXXX-large uniform) will league ALL MLB first basemen in errors committed and lowest fielding percentage.
The way the competition is looking in the NL East thus far, though, someone may win that division with 85 victories -- I know, I know the season is barely two weeks old but some trends do hold true throughout the season....should be an exciting summer in Queens, though -- tell Keith Olbermann's mother not to sit behind first base again or she's likely to get hit with another errant throw from a Mets infielder like she did a couple of years ago.
The way the competition is looking in the NL East thus far, though, someone may win that division with 85 victories -- I know, I know the season is barely two weeks old but some trends do hold true throughout the season....should be an exciting summer in Queens, though -- tell Keith Olbermann's mother not to sit behind first base again or she's likely to get hit with another errant throw from a Mets infielder like she did a couple of years ago.
According to the graphic during the Mets-Braves on ESPN, Ordonez has made 8 errors, and they've led to....zero unearned runs.
I don't believe that stat is accurate Joe because in Saturday's 9-8 loss to Montreal (I'm honestly NOT trying to blow one game out of proportion but I believe a 13 game trend is significant) Ordonez committed 3 of the Mets' 5 errors resulting in a total of 6 unearned Expos runs during that game....also, why does Valentine insist of playing John Valentin at first base (while Vaughn is injured) when Valentin had NEVER played the position prior to this year and he has already committed 3 errors in 4 games there this season? -- it's not as if his bat is that potent and Johnson and McEwing are both superior defensive AND offensive players (that is, of course, when Super Joe is not occupying one of the other six positions he has occupied at Shea).
[ April 15, 2002: Message edited by: gamecock ]
[ April 15, 2002: Message edited by: gamecock ]
What's the story with the "uneven dirt"??? I heard on the radio broadcast of the Mets/Braves games that they "redid" the infield dirt, and it's playing very erratically. Of course, all these unforced errors would be the dirt's fault, as opposed to this hodge-podge, mish-mash motley crew of trades and free agents that are playing together for the first time. Seriously, though, the Mets are my "National League"* team, and I imagine they'll figure things out soon enough.
* my cousin who recently moved to Boston, a lifelong diehard Mets fan, decided that it was OK to root for the Red Sox as his "American League team" (he really likes living here, and felt kinda like he owed it to his newly adopted home to root for the baseball team) as long a he still rooted for the Mets in interleague and (yikes! should it ever come to pass) World Series games. Probably because, like gravity or some other irresistable force, all Yankee-haters are drawn to the Mets, I have picked them to as my National League team. And for all you cynics out there, I strictly maintain that Mike Piazza, Jay Payton, and Todd Zeile (on last year's team) had **nothing** to do with my decision.
* my cousin who recently moved to Boston, a lifelong diehard Mets fan, decided that it was OK to root for the Red Sox as his "American League team" (he really likes living here, and felt kinda like he owed it to his newly adopted home to root for the baseball team) as long a he still rooted for the Mets in interleague and (yikes! should it ever come to pass) World Series games. Probably because, like gravity or some other irresistable force, all Yankee-haters are drawn to the Mets, I have picked them to as my National League team. And for all you cynics out there, I strictly maintain that Mike Piazza, Jay Payton, and Todd Zeile (on last year's team) had **nothing** to do with my decision.
[quote]Originally posted by gamecock:
tell Keith Olbermann's mother not to sit behind first base again or she's likely to get hit with another errant throw from a Mets infielder ...
That was Chuck Knoblauch, at Yankee Stadium.
The Mets continue winning ugly last night!
Dr Jekyll & Mr Met...
tell Keith Olbermann's mother not to sit behind first base again or she's likely to get hit with another errant throw from a Mets infielder ...
That was Chuck Knoblauch, at Yankee Stadium.
The Mets continue winning ugly last night!
Dr Jekyll & Mr Met...
Hi, Gamecock - As Bill W correctly observed, Mrs. Olbermann was at Yankee Stadium and was hit by one of Chuck Knoblauch's many errant throws from second base. It was shortly after that game that Knoblauch was banished to left field. One of my favorite parts of that whole incident was that Olberman's mom refused to let him have the ball for his memorabilia collection; she insisted he go on E-Bay and bid against everyone else if he wanted it.
Now, on the subject of fielding......I think the Yankees are feeling the absence of Tino Martinez much more than they expected. Nobody focused on the defensive facet of the Tino/Giambi switch, but Tino is hands down a better defensive first baseman. There have already been three or four plays where Giambi was pulled off the bag, or a throw went over his glove, and the announcers noted that Tino Martinez would have been able to make the play and "save" the error. Clearly, Tino was preventing a lot of the errors coming from the second and third base positions. Giambi is unable to do that. Nick Johnson, a rookie, is supposed to be excellent defensively (and s putting up very good #'s at the plate), but is primarily DHing because Giambi wants to play in the field.
Now, on the subject of fielding......I think the Yankees are feeling the absence of Tino Martinez much more than they expected. Nobody focused on the defensive facet of the Tino/Giambi switch, but Tino is hands down a better defensive first baseman. There have already been three or four plays where Giambi was pulled off the bag, or a throw went over his glove, and the announcers noted that Tino Martinez would have been able to make the play and "save" the error. Clearly, Tino was preventing a lot of the errors coming from the second and third base positions. Giambi is unable to do that. Nick Johnson, a rookie, is supposed to be excellent defensively (and s putting up very good #'s at the plate), but is primarily DHing because Giambi wants to play in the field.
[quote](I'm
honestly NOT trying to blow one game out of proportion but I believe a 13 game trend is
significant)
Any small sample (and 13 games is a very small sample, especially at the start of the season) cannot be a significant predictor of future performance. Does anybody really believe that Barry Bonds is "on pace" to hit a triple-digit number of home runs this season? I'm not much inclined to worry about errors coming at the start of the season, as there's a LOT of time for position players to get more comfortable in the field and with one another. Just like I'm not ready to believe that pitching won't let the Mets down at some point this season, the fantastic start notwithstanding. To me, the most encouraging things about the Mets start this season:
- Edgardo Alfonso seems to be his old self!
- Astacio and D'Amico acting like viable starters
- More timely hits by Rey Ordonez (this could be the year he bats .275!)
- The team is able to score runs in bunches again.
90 wins doesn't seem out of the question to me right now.
honestly NOT trying to blow one game out of proportion but I believe a 13 game trend is
significant)
Any small sample (and 13 games is a very small sample, especially at the start of the season) cannot be a significant predictor of future performance. Does anybody really believe that Barry Bonds is "on pace" to hit a triple-digit number of home runs this season? I'm not much inclined to worry about errors coming at the start of the season, as there's a LOT of time for position players to get more comfortable in the field and with one another. Just like I'm not ready to believe that pitching won't let the Mets down at some point this season, the fantastic start notwithstanding. To me, the most encouraging things about the Mets start this season:
- Edgardo Alfonso seems to be his old self!
- Astacio and D'Amico acting like viable starters
- More timely hits by Rey Ordonez (this could be the year he bats .275!)
- The team is able to score runs in bunches again.
90 wins doesn't seem out of the question to me right now.
[quote]Originally posted by Munson Man:
Nobody focused on the defensive facet of the Tino/Giambi switch, but Tino is hands down a better defensive first baseman.
Maybe so. However, Giambi is perhaps the MOST potent offensive player in the AL; there's literally no comparison with an aging Tino. All the cooing over Martinez's RBI total obscured the fact that he was a below-average AL 1B on offense. There's simply no angle from which to criticize the exchange, if winning is the goal.
Nobody focused on the defensive facet of the Tino/Giambi switch, but Tino is hands down a better defensive first baseman.
Maybe so. However, Giambi is perhaps the MOST potent offensive player in the AL; there's literally no comparison with an aging Tino. All the cooing over Martinez's RBI total obscured the fact that he was a below-average AL 1B on offense. There's simply no angle from which to criticize the exchange, if winning is the goal.
As a loyal fan of the San Diego Padres, I can attest to the damage created by a bad fielding team. We have led the NL the last 2 years in lowest fielding percentage and errors (although the Mets are trying to take our three-peat), and it has cost us several wins and the chance for any winning season.
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