I find these cocky football players very arogant, even if they are far better than I ever could be. I don't need to see some guy picking up a cell phone to call someone after a touchdown...that's something I did when I was 12.

Joe Horn should face a 3 game suspension, as Terrell Owens should have last season with the Sharpie. Furthermore, if I was a Saint's teammate, I would kick his f-cking ass in the lockerroom after the game. For a team fighting for the playoffs, to pull out a f-cking cell phone after a touchdown proves that he is about promoting himself, not about the team.

As I Giants fan it didn't bother me too much because we have no players. And I knew before hand we were going to get blown out tonight.

[ December 15, 2003, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: amazin12 ]

These touchdown celebrations are way out of hand. We had Horn and the cell phone, Chad Johnson of the Bengals with his "Don't fine me" sign...but perhaps no one looked more foolish than Atlanta's T.J. Duckett, who did a dance in the end zone after his touchdown, which came with his team being CRUSHED by the Colts 31-0 at the time.

Did you see how ESPN's three Sunday night announcers Joe Theissmann, Mike Patrick and Paul MacGuire thoroughly scolded Joe Horn for his actions yet ESPN continued to show the highlight of Horn's antics during halftime segments and before commercial breaks.

Did anyone see the Monday pre-game show on ESPN? I'm just wondering if any of those bozos like Stuart Scott or Michael Irvin were applauding Joe Horn's antics. And of course they also represent ESPN.

[ December 15, 2003, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: amazin12 ]

ESPN's hypocrisy knows no bounds on this kind of thing. Like Amazin12 wrote, they have the 3 Chuckleheads on Sunday Night Football scolding him but they run the clip on SportsCenter and it'll probably be replayed for a while because it's "whacky" or something. ESPN has a lot to answer for in these situations, I think; it's like with basketball, when they show a dunk and continue to show the player posturing afterwards. My favorites are when you can see the player stopping, searching for the camera and THEN posturing.

On ESPN, Dan Patrick asked Irvin and Sean Salisbury for their opinions. While Salisbury took Horn to task, Irvin completely defended Horn. I'm a bit surprised I was able to understand what he said, considering he can barely speak English. I swear the guy has an IQ lower than Michael Vick's QB rating this past weekend.

George I totally agree with you. I don't know who at ESPN in that right mind felt Michael Irvin was a better speaker than Sterling Sharpe. Sharpe was a very articulate and knowledgeable in-studio host. Irvin is at his absolute worst when he clowns around. This is when I barely know what he is saying. He wasn't that way as the in-studio host with Al Trautwig for those Arena football telecasts. Maybe it's that phony Stuart Scott who gets him riled up.

Bring back Sterling!!

[ December 16, 2003, 05:26 AM: Message edited by: amazin12 ]

I agree, why did Irvin replace Sterling Sharpe? Shannon's still playing, right? For Denver? He has got a body on him!!!

(I like Irvin's lips, but I also don't understand why, out of all the other ex-pros--including black ex-pros--out there, they picked him. Wasn't his troubled background with drugs enough to keep him out of ESPN's broadcasting suites? Maybe he's sexing up someone there. That's about the only explanation I can come up with.)

Back to the cute Horn and his hijinks: the NFL needs to be very clear. Anything more than a few dance steps will result in a serious team penalty, and anything stunts involving materials that are not part of standard equipment (such as Sharpie pens, cell phones, placards, what have you), will result in at least a game's suspension and a serious fine.

[ December 16, 2003, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

Sterling is indeed the retired Sharpe. Shannon's still playing.

I think Sharpe just left, didn't he? Got a better offer or something. I don't think ESPN was unhappy with him. Why Michael Irvin was hired...well, they hired Rush Limbaugh so obviously their judgment is impaired.

[ December 16, 2003, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]

There was another player involved, right? From what I read Horn retrieved a phone someone else actually got from under the pad. - Fine them both and suspend them, if that's what it takes.

If I were the coach I would be ballistic - clearly this is a situation of someone not concentrating before a game, because there had to be a lot of planning for this stunt. Not to mention the 15 yard penalty.

The Giants are a bunch of pussies if they were not offended by this. Just proves they gave up on the season many games ago...

Here is what fassel should have done.. Told his special teams... on the kick off.. someone lays a helmet or elbow on the kicker. Then do a nice celebration dance. Horn does it again, and someone will take a shot at the QB.

I believe Sterling Sharpe left ESPN because he was offered a job by the fledgling NFL Network.

I also believe that the hiring of a former Cowboy (Michael Irvin) by ESPN was inevitable to compete with CBS (Deion Sanders) and FOX (Jimmy Johnson) who are trying to attract the large Cowboy fanbase as viewers to pump up the ratings.

After listening to the debate over the cell phone incident, it seems as though the line has been drawn between the old schoolers who are anti, and the street ballers who are pro. Furthermore, it also seems as though a line has somewhat been drawn racially on the issue as well, as pointed out by Dan Patrick on his radio show.

Hey, i think everyone should sit down for just a sec here...

I like Irvin (on tv). I think he's been doing a good job and like hearing what he hays to say.

"Hey, where's my limo?"

"Bring on da ho's!"

"I just love the pure stuff! (sniff)"

"Cristal! We're out of Cristal!"

"Anyone got Johnnie Cochran's number?"

"Meet my homie, Marion Barry. Bitch set him up, too."

I don't quite understand why so many people are upest at this celebration. I really think the only person/people who should have a problem with it should be Haslett and the coaching staff.

In my opinion, the phone call isn't any worse than the other celebrations (the mile high salute comes to mind...i hated that), and in some ways better. At least these players (TO with the Sharpi, Johnson w/ the sign, and Horn w/ the phone) are coming up with creative ways to celebrate and are thinking "outside the box." :cool:

[ December 16, 2003, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: stinger85 ]

SportsLine.com has learned the NFL has decided to fine the Saints receiver $30,000 for pulling out his cellular phone during a touchdown celebration against the Giants on Sunday night. This incident marks the second time this season Horn has been scolded for excessive celebration.

The fines were decided upon early Tuesday, and should become official Wednesday.

The incident also cost one of his teammates as SportsLine.com has also learned WR Michael Lewis was tagged for $5,000 for acting as Horn's accomplice in the nationally televised taunt.

CBS Sportsline.com web page

Celebrations of this ilk are more than just celebrations -- they're showing off. They're showing up the other team. They're ugly displays of poor sportsmanship. They're obnoxious.

Let the players find a way to be creative without resorting to cell phones or Sharpie pens. Terrell Owens on Sunday ran to a pile of snow and threw some of it up into the air. I liked that, actually.

Joe Horn showed some creativity! What a surprise! The NFL should be thankful for his display, not penalizing him for it!

One of the sports reporters on an ESPN show made a good point. He was saying what if someone like Derek Jeter hit a homerum and after crossing home plate he pulled out a cell phone to make a call. Would that look weird? It's hard to picture, right? Why do you think these antics are acceptable in football but not baseball? Sportsmanship should be the same all around. No double standards.

[ December 16, 2003, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: amazin12 ]

It's not a question of double standards, but different standards. There's no question that there are different standards of behavior for different sports. Just look at the difference between fighting in hockey and baseball. Or think about if a football team behaved after a touchdown the way a hockey team behaves after a goal. There are different standards because there are different sports. Yes, this type of behavior would generally be considered unheard of in baseball, while it's merely uncalled for in football. However, I do think it is considered unacceptable across all sports.

Since this was clearly a premeditated act, I wonder if Joe "Blow My Own" Horn would have done this if the Saints had been losing? Being down 31-6 didn't stop that dope TJ Duckett from doing his dance.

The fact that this was so planned and thought out is what bugs me. Your team is fighting for a playoff spot and you're busy running around planting cell phones in the end zone probably in the hope that you'll land an endorsement deal. Moron.

I can't stand the idiots who are asking the question, "Who was he calling?" Jerks. He wasn't calling anyone. He was just posing. He flipped open the phone and then raised his arm high enough to create the look of a very important person on a cell phone call. He sort of freeze-framed it. It was a like a vogue.

Strike A Pose, Joe Horn. Ass.

[ December 17, 2003, 08:28 AM: Message edited by: amazin12 ]

I finally saw the offending act. BFD. The guy's a showboating moron, but the fine was beyond excessive. Other than a celebration penalty (appropriate), this is a team disciplinary issue to be dealt with by the team.

Save the big fines for violence or "real" misbehavior.

If they don't suspend them for there stupidity, then they will never stop.

Chad Johnson said he put aside 50,000. before the season for celebration fines (hmm - that kind of money might help someone off of the streets)
The iddiot is able to wave a poster that basically says - fine me for breaking all of your rules - i don't care. If i walked around with a poster at work like that - they would can my ass!

Horn is just an idiot. I told my kids and my mom i would do it for them, i mean i did it for my team, i mean...
Shut up you poser..


I do enjoy celebration but do not like idiocy. I will never ever draft either one of them in a fantasy league regardless of the circumstances!!

I agree GJ. That was what I was trying to say, but I think you said it better. The discipline should have come from his coaches, not from the league.

I think if the behavior had been directed towards another player, than maybe the league should become involved. I think this celebration is less of a threat of inciting violence between players than the trash talking & jawing that Brett Favre is known for.

I hope TO tries some of this behavior this weekend, then when he is pelted with 15 cell phones and 100 beers... i can laugh at him.

No batteries?

The green army used them all up liberating south beach.

The No Fun League ignores Chad Johnson's request:

The No Fun League ignores Chad Johnson's request: Michael Lewis got fined in connection with the Horn thing:

Here's a thought--there are fewer guys on an MLB or NBA roster, so part of this NFL self-promotion crap may be just that--a way of getting greater media attention (though not based on talent or excellence) and thus possibly a deal based on the notoriety. (Didn't Sharpie show interest in Terrell Owens after his stunt? Maybe not.) Or just greater fan recognition. (Will anyone NOT know Joe Horn giv

Oh okay. Now I remember. I guess we've got ourselves a tricky little trivia question now for years to come.

While many thought Sharpie would hire Owens as a spokesperson, in the end they weren't interested. I believe they ended up just donating some money to Owens' charity.

Some residual fallout from the Horn incident:

*The Saints complained that the Jaguars should have been penalized for attempting to block the PAT with an illegal formation. Okay the Saints should just shut up. And Jags coach Jack Del Rio basically told them so.

*Texans' QB David Carr and one of his OL were fined for doing a mocking reenactment of the Horn Cell Phone Call after they scored a TD the following week. The amount of the fine is not known, but despite my finding fault with what Horn did, the NFL does really need to lighten up a little bit.

And stop being the No Fun League? No way!

Now if they'd only fine Ray Lewis for acting like a psycho when he gets introduced at home games....

Originally posted by George_vikingfan:

Absolutely right, George! I heard this too, and shook my head in disbelief that the NFL couldn't cut these guys a little slack (by the way, the other player was centre Steve McKinney). Considering the Houston Texans have one of the worst records in the NFL and were playing at home, the incident probably provided some comic relief to their fans who haven't had much to cheer about this season.

I wouldn't say that. It's only the team's second year and they've won five, plus been close in a few others. They're headed in the right direction and Carr isn't losing confidence by losing now. If they're not .500 by 2005, *then* you can razz them for futility.

And yes, the NFL should lighten up. Good parody and humour is not "excessive celebration".


Bob Dog

Originally posted by Bob Dog:

Well, in terms of W-L, yes there are several teams with worse records than Houston (Cleveland, San Diego, Oakland, NY Giants, Detroit, Atlanta and Arizona), while at the end of the 2002 season, there were only three teams with worse records (Cincinnati, Chicago and Detroit). And to be fair, they did beat a couple of above-average teams this year, ie Miami and Carolina. That's about as positive a spin as can be put on this, I think. But assuming Houston loses to Indianapolis on Sunday (I think that's a safe bet), the Texans will end up with a 5-11 record, just one better than last year's 4-12.

I don't think I've watched a single Texans' game this season, but looking at the stats, comparing total offense/defense for '02 and '03, the Texans' really are no better than last year (dead last in '02 in offense and 29th at present; defensively they have dropped from 16th to 31st).