This young man is a truly a hero in our minds, hearts, and eyes instead of some of our "selfish" sports stars that we have worshipped on a daily basis. I can't think of another dedicated person from the world of sports since Ted Williams's service to our country during WWII and the Korean War and Bob Kalsu's service during Vietnam.

Here is a quote from his former NFL coach, Dave McGinnis, that sums it up:

"He represented all that was good in sports ... passion, honor, integrity, and dignity."

My prayers go out to his family (i.e. wife, father, mother, and his brother).

A True American Patriot. Thank you Pat. Rest in Peace.

Clearly we're not all cut out for it. I recall there was a boxer--was it Riddick Bowe?--who joined the Army a while back and quit after like two days? That was a joke.

We dont see the likes of Pat Tillman very often and he will be truly missed. He never wanted any special attention and I cant tell you how hard Ranger training is, its not a walk in the park at all. I have a few freinds in the Army that are Rangers, they are the best of the best in the Army.

The terrain in Afghanistan is very rough Tom, the mountian ranges are huge, and there are rocks everywhere, ive never seen so many damn rocks in all my life. We did work with a few of the Afghan troops, and I did get a chance to talk to some of them about the horrors of the Taliban and what some of the people suffered during that time.

Sport Best wishes to your nephew wish him the very best

I had to write this to get it off my chest, I can't say it to anyone in person because i would be so chastised. I knew Pat Tillman, not as a friend, but as someone that was in many of his business classes and observed him on and off campus, and watched him play football as a Sun Devil and Cardinal. Unlike Jake Plummer that was his teammate, and was always very pleasant. I cannot say he was an angel or a saint as some paint him, he was quirky and even mean. I felt that his quirkeness was used to grab attention and I felt that he was so into the legend he was creating that he used opportunities to build on it. I just wished that someone would have told him that he didnt need to have to add war hero to his legend. If he had lived and returned, the opportunities for this guy would have been great, probably much better than if he had stayed in football and maybe had been cut from a roster or injured. I hate that this makes me sound mean, I am not trying to be mean, I am so truly sad. I even had a crush on him in college, and these sad days have brought me back to that time when I did see him on campus, or club rio or a marketing class. I just hate that maybe he joined to create more of a legend for himself and lost, but more sadly left his loved ones to deal with this sadness. Whatever his reasons, I do feel that he is a hero, and i'm sure he'll be missed by many, I have some memories that bring me to a more innocent time too, Thanks, Pat.

I know this is somewhat old news, but I just today have gotten around to articulating what I think about Tillman. It's not that he should be deified because he gave something up, took the road less travelled, and didn't come back. It's that he represents, I think, a much happier time. When a sports hero becomes a war dead, it alerts the rest of the sleeping public that we're no longer living the same life we were when Tillman was kicking ass for ASU.

And by the way, alphamale, it's very much ok to say that Tillman was occasionally mean and a little self-promotional. We all are, and that what makes his death so sad ... because it was just like everyone elses. No matter how rich, how smart, how accomplished, a bullet will rip out your organs just the same.

Tillman a \"Rambo-like idiot\"?? A UMass student wrote a column for the college paper; the title of the column: "Pat Tillman is not a hero: he got what was coming to him." This guy's just looking for trouble.

HATE. Just... HATE.

I heard the story this morning, and wanted to take a hatchet to the television set. I just have this... thing against people who have absolutely no respect for the dead.

Hey. ass****. What Pat Tillman did was stick himself in the line of duty with the intention of helping to protect America from outside threats. Tillman didn't choose to go to Iraq; he chose to serve in the military because of 9/11, and got sent to Iraq as an indirect result. You can say want you want to about the war in Iraq being Vietnam 2: Jingoistic Boogaloo; just leave the dead out of it.

[ April 29, 2004, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: Justin Cognito ]

I'd be willing to fight a war that was JUSTIFIED, not this immoral piece of crap war fought for all the wrong reasons.

I'm so sick and bleeping tired of hearing about Pat Tillman the hero. He was one soldier who died in Afghanistan, like so many others who fought and died for our country before him. So he walked away from a professional football contract. Let's not set out to canonize him just yet.

My heart goes out to the families of all our armed forces. I may not agree with the reasons they're over there, but I feel the debt to all those who risk and give their lives for our freedoms. Even the ones who walk away from multi-million dollar contracts to do it.

Simeon Rice's comment was blatantly out of line.

A colleague of mine wrote what I thought was a very strong column about Tillman. If you're interested, look it up at www.dodgeglobe.com (it appeared in the April 24 edition, I think.)

Bagram Air Base Afghanistan

thanks for the website Twin
those are very recent pics too. I worked in the tower, thats no lie about the dust either its everywhere!! I've never seen so much damn dust in all my life. Thanks again for the website.

Tom Ford check out the pics, very much update pics and any info you want from me please dont hesitate to ask

Because, as do all the listers at Outsports, you immediately download all my messages to your Mac and hyperlink them with Hypercard, you have no doubt noticed that I posted it in P&R a few months back.

http://66.241.240.127/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.c...t=001197#000020

How many people will have Ted Rall on a hit list after this editorial cartoon about Pat Tillman?
Pat Tillman editorial cartoon

From the article:

First his cartoon depicting 9/11 widows as greedy shrews. Then his cartoon depicting the FDNY in 2011 as fitlhy stinking rich. And now this.

Choke on my f**k, Rall.

Actually, quite a few former athletes served the U.S.--not just Ted Williams, but Bob Feller, Stan Musial, etc.

I'm with you, Bill W, re: Pholly and a few others.... As I said to one recently (sorry, Godwin's Law broken), "Sieg heil."

when this sad story couldn't get any more tragic, it suddenly does. according to this source pat tilman was killed by friendly fire.

What a waste.

From Ted Rall:
Ted Rall 1, Justin Cognito nil.

Great to hear the Tillman family speaking out on the propaganda our government fed to its masses...better to tell a lie and get the flags a waving (again) then to feed the truth, I suppose.
Pat Tillman's Family Speaks Out

NJ

Gosh, more lies from this administration? What a shock! This takes the sleaze level of this adminsitration to a new height. Keep it up, GWB! Pretty soon, the Clinton administration will look as pure as driven snow.

The Washington Post interview referenced by CNN in NathanJones' post above.

Geez, these liars just can't quit lying! I think this goes along with catapulting the propaganda.
Army Again Denies Cover-Up in Tillman Case

Now Bobby, how do you expect them to recruit more men for the death machine if they tell the truth?

Surprisingly the word "murder" hasn't surfaced in this event. I assume such a thing would be hard to define, and harder to prove even with an ethical administration in power in our government.

I suspect historians will inspect it as such only if it becomes a bigger controversy than it is, and has consequences for the Commander-in-Chief. For now it seems the political air smells so bad that even this stink doesn't smell.

Murder would involve intent. While the intent was to kill the "enemy", I don't think the specific intent was to kill Pat Tillman...which would result in murder. This could be classified as an accidental homicide. Ah, legalese. Still, I'd like to see a punishment result from this tragedy.

Only a credible investigation by an independent trustworthy authority could determine that. History may be the only one.

There are such things as jealousy, even among troops in the midst of battle. Tillman was a very highly publicized recruit. They all knew his history. Small-mindedness does not stop at the barracks door. Troops are human like us all.

There is a compelling reason that gay men should be interested in the reopening of the investigation into Pat Tillman's death. Tillman may have been known to be "not religious" in a war in which both sides have claimed support from God. Openly gay men would be assumed not to fit the conservative view of religion held by many if not most in the military. Could Tillman's agnosticism be deadly?

It's a major, major, extreme, even ridiculous stretch to think that he might have been gay and was murdered because he was gay, or because he was an agnostic, and not killed by "friendly fire" in some operation that was either poorly planned or conducted by poorly trained personnel or whatever, just because there's a new investigation into what happened.

Isn't this the third investigation? This is a criminal investigation. This is relatively rare.
A crime suggests a motive is suspected. We are not dealing with the most honest administration when it comes to investigating itself. Secrecy and deceit have become its hallmarks. Tillman does not have to have been gay to earn the ire of a fellow soldier. One thing revealed so far is that a squad leader shot first and others followed. I haven't seen or heard of the name of the squad leader. What if this were civilian?

Presumably there's the military equivalent of criminal negligence, too -- maybe dereliction of duty on the part of the platoon leader?

AP article on ESPN.com: Pat Tillman's brother Kevin speaks out against war

This headline, a quote from the Tillman's mother, in this earlier Truthdig article pretty much sums it up:

‘They tried to attach themselves to his virtue; then they wiped their feet with him.’--Mary Tillman

Sometimes a warrior's true fight is the one to halt combat. Kevin Tillman has my highest regard for seeing the light and getting the fighting to stop.

It sickens me to think that the Bush Regime and its lackeys are trying to use his brother's death to help justify continuing their political agenda. It's wrong, it's dangerous, and it's completely disgusting!

Here's the full article. Scathing!

Finally someone to be held accountable for Tillman's death and the subsequent coverup.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/23/tillman.death/index.html

After a fifth Pentagon "investigation" into Tillman's death and the subsequent coverup, it's time for Congressional hearings.

It's about time Congress got involved!

Pat Tillman's brother, Kevin, a former Army Ranger himself, railed against the Army and how they handled Pat's death. Yes, it truly was sickening to know that the military out and out lied through their teeth.

Then, former PFC Jessica Lynch also spoke out against the media-whoring that the military engaged in. She proclaimed that she was never the media darling that the military made her out to be.

Yes, why is there this culture of lying and making up stories in the military?

The military wants to portray itself as virtuous, because really, in a war scenario, what are its members doing? Killing people. So it makes sense to me that the military would lie and try to create false heroes, especially a military under the command of the worst and most untruthful president we have ever had.

But my question is, what are we going to do about our "mainstream" "liberal" media, who actively colluded with the Bush administration in these lies about Tillman and Lynch, who have failed to take any responsibility for their actions, and who continue to protect Bush--except when forced by bloggers, the new Democratic Congress, or whistleblowers--and champion him at every stage? Just think of how Judith Miller of the New York Times actively and repeatedly wrote administration lies to gin up support for the Iraq War, or how mainstream "liberal" journalists like Tim Russert and Matt Cooper were active participants in the scheme to smear Ambassador Joseph Wilson IV and out his wife, undercover agent Valerie Plame. Or think about how the mainstream media actively attacked and misrepresented Vice President Gore in 1999 and 2000, then sat on their hands as Bush was appointed in 2000, as the post-9/11 pseudo-investigations occurred, as the Swift Boat liars smeared Kerry in 2004, as Bush has hovered at around 32-36% popularity and Americans have finally said they've had enough. The "mainstream" "liberal" media are STILL failing to report how the majority of Americans have had enough of Bush's Iraqmire, and support either an immediate or a phased withdrawal. Most Americans agree with Democratic Majority Leader Harry Reid, and not with the Dick. Yet CNN uses terms like "defeatist" Dems, and lets Bush attack the will of the American people without criticism. It's disgusting.

Unless we do something about our lackey, corporatist media, we are going to continue to be lied to again and again. They refuse to put together all the pieces concerning this administration, which has damaged our nation incalculably. We'll be looking back two years from now and asking ourselves, how on earth did it all happen, and one central explanation we shouldn't ever forget is: our "mainstream" "liberal" media worked overtime to make the Bush nightmare possible.

This whole affair makes me so angry it's difficult to see straight sometimes, much less think straight. It is good that Pat Tillman, and his brother, and especially his mother Mary, have all put faces on the casualties in this war and the families associated with them.

But I wish every American could check the DoD Confirmation List once a day, just to remind themselves that these are all people with names, families and histories. And perhaps to think about the pain so many are going through.

It should be a non-partisan act to just take a few seconds every day to see the actual new names of individuals added.

Yes, we should check that list, and we should take time out to remember the more than 3300 US soldiers and sailors who've been killed in this war, and the many thousands of our servicepeople who've been wounded and injured. No, they weren't all famous and handsome and rich like Pat Tillman, but they deserve our thanks and our tribute.

We had a national week of mourning over the horrific slaughter down at Virginia Tech, but in this same month, we've had one of the highest death tolls of our troops in the entire war. Also, last year alone, over 35,000 Iraqis were killed. The vast majority were innocent people or soldiers or police who were working with us.

So why don't we devote time on a regular basis to remember the fallen troops, who as you say, were our fellow Americans, who gave their lives on our behalf and for a terrible series of lies and deceptions, and also to the Iraqi people, especially because of the horrific situation that the US has unleashed upon them?

Videos of testimony-


Kevin Tillman speaks out


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUCyr3B3IlM...ted&search=


West Virginia's Jessica Lynch's speaks out against the propoganda machine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0OyihqYfF4

I'm so proud of her-she could have easily gone along with the lies but she didn't

Well put as always, fantomas. SHALOM TO THE TROOPS AND TO THE IRAQI PEOPLE.

A documentary about Pat Tillman will be shown at the Sundance Film Festival, The Tillman Story.