Did anyone hear him on Howard Stern today? Jeremy called into the show and among all the typical Howard kind of questions was one about gay guys on the team. Jeremy was very quick to say he would not approve of a gay guy on his team. He made the typical locker room protest and made it clear he does not like gay people. Robin tried to call him out on the coments and Howard tried to get him to admit that he must have met some gay players in his college days. Jeremy just said no and they moved on to another topic.

It is not like he called us fags a la Rocker but why isn't there going to be a stink about his comments?

Because it's Howard Stern. He showed his idiocy simply by being on the show.

[quote]Originally posted by AriSea:
Because it's Howard Stern. He showed his idiocy simply by being on the show.

---

AriSea, while I agree that Shockey's judgement can be questioned just for appearing on the show, I certainly DON'T think his bigoted, homophobic comments should be ignored either....while I'm not placing him in the same category as John Rocker (at least not YET), I've already lost a lot of respect for New York's "next great star" and hope he and the G-men have a horrendous season....with racist Kerry Collins in one corner of the locker room and homophobe Shockey in the other, what more does the Meadowlands need?....sorry to be so anti-NY (my birthplace) on 9/11 but those reprehensible comments cannot go unnoticed....as long as Shockey stays away from the REAL N.Y. team (the J-E-T-S) I'll be able to enjoy my NFL action.

Why bash Howard Stern? He didn't make Shockey make the comments. Jeremy made them all on his own. Appearing on Stern's show didn't make Shockey a homophobe. Howard, if you listened regularly as I do, is in no way anti-gay. Sure he makes some silly gay jokes just like he jokes about every other group.

Over the years, many jocks have appeared on Stern's show. And why not-he's only number 1 in almost every market he is in.

That's a shame...

I just watched that ESPN Rookie/NFL show again where they focus on Shockey, Williams, Hatch and my boy David Carr. A great show...I enjoyed watching Hatch (Penn) sweating with his family and friends during the draft up until he was picked in the third round.

I liked Shockey in it (my first introduction) but come to think of it he did mention he had to go to the mall one day to "just look at girls" as a means to clear his head of football plays...cleasning it I guess, sorta like a sorbet...

He does have a nice butt though...come to think of it so does Rocker...hmmm athletes with nice butts must be homophobically inclined...

I wonder if Chrebet is homophobic...

Maddog

Would someone who heard these comments please drop me a line ASAP at cyd@outsports.com with your number so I can call you.

Thanks.

Hmmmm...perhaps when someone makes comments like this, a bunch of us should write a nice letter-- telling him how we watch him on TV or at the stadium and spend the whole time staring at his butt and picturing him naked, etc. just to make him feel less comfortable.

I must have missed this part, but I heard some of his interview. He sounds like a real cornfed southern boy (no offense, guys) - saying things like "You never know about these New York girls". Country boy comes to the big city. Although it's not like Miami (his college town) is some tiny burg.

And I agree with VikingFan, leave Howard alone. Howard and Robin, apparently, were the ones trying to get him to discuss this more and clarify his remarks. I don't think Howard can imagine being gay, but he certainly isn't anti-gay or homophobic.

I caught some of the "Hey Rookie, Welcome to the NFL" film yesterday on ESPN. Isn't Shockey the one who was making fun of two of his teammates for sharing a room at training camp? Comments like: "It's good you're sharing a room 'cause if you get lonely you can just crawl into bed together and cuddle." And he just wouldn't let it go. He kept making similar remarks over and over. At least the two teammates didn't jump to the bait. One teammate finally did say something like "I need to have my boots on so I can wade through this sh*t."

If that was Shockey (and a picture I found on the internet seems to confirm it), he strikes me as the type who protests a little too much and shows his total preoccupation with homosexuality. The most securely straight guys don't obsess like that. What a jerk.

[quote]Originally posted by Lots-of-us:
The most securely straight guys don't obsess like that. What a jerk.

---

Bingo!!...Gay Bingo!!!?

As so far the only person to hear the exchange that is posting let me stress that Howard and Robin did a good job on the subject. I realy think that Howard wanted to get some info on gays in pro sports and not in a bad way. From the tone of Robins voice when she tried to get him to explain himself I knew she wanted to take him on. Too bad he changed the subject.

Did anyone ever hear more about this or get a transcript of what exactly was said? Shockey seems to be everywhere media coverage-wise (I read he's in talks to model for the Gap and DKNY on top of everything else.) Before I start talking smack about him being homophobic, I'd like to get my facts right (for a change)

[quote]Originally posted by MCMikeNamara:
...he's in talks to model for the Gap and DKNY on top of everything else.

---

No accounting for taste -- he looks like Bam-Bam from The Flintstones!

See -- He's already made an ad ...

[ September 19, 2002: Message edited by: DCBucky ]

[quote]Originally posted by DCBucky:
No accounting for taste -- he looks like Bam-Bam from The Flintstones!

See -- He's already made an ad ...

[ September 19, 2002: Message edited by: DCBucky ]

---

Very cute Bucky!!! Kind of like Flintstone Garanimals. I see Shockey selling a boatlaod of these ensembles!

I regularly listen to Howard, but I missed that morning and now I'm really sorry I did. is it wrong that I still find him kind of hot?

We are pursuing this story and hope to have something in the next few days.

[quote]Originally posted by George_vikingfan:


is it wrong that I still find him kind of hot?

---

Not wrong at all. Just one correction: he's TOTALLY hot!! Mother of God, is he hot!! Somehow the thought that he might be a closet homophobe makes him even more appealing.

off to open a window......

[quote]Somehow the thought that he might be a closet homophobe makes him even more appealing

---

What. the. f**k? Feckin' Yankee fans.....

Oh, I get it, is this some kind of Deliverence "Squeal like a pig boy" fantasy wherein the gay guy taunts and humiliates the straight guy by threatening to plow him? Hmmmmmm......

His neck is too big.

I suspect Shockey got a good, stern (no pun intended) scolding from his agent(s) and managers and coaches all. And, I wouldn't be surprised if any of the above, or former teammates, said to him, "Hey, Dipshit, you lived in MIAMI. You play in NEW YORK. You know gay people. Grow the f**k up."

I'm probably projecting hopeful feelings onto the situation b/c I think he's HOT. From what I read on the site (thanks Cyd for getting that story up so quickly!) he didn't say much different than any other 22 y.o. I knew in or right after college. A little time and exp. and Jeremy will probably come around. Not to excuse what he said. He ain't no Reggie White, though...

As much as I hated the tenor of the comments from Shockey, at least he's being honest, unlike folks we all know of the "not that there's anything wrong with it" sort who try to make a big deal of not being anti-gay.

The non-reaction of the major media to JEREMY SHOCKEY's comments ... combined with the non-reaction to the blatant anti-gay bigotry of Allen Iverson and Julian Tavares, to name two ... has me convinced that in the eyes of the major media, the problem with JOHN ROCKER was not that his comments were was anti-gay, or xenophobic, but that his comments were ANTI-NEW YORK.

New York's always been self-centered and a lot more provincial than New Yorkers'll admit. What else explains the strength of the continuing reaction against Rocker, compared to the others? The New York-based media whipped people into an anti-Rocker frenzy, while Shockey's bigotry is greeted with a yawn. The tight end only said he didn't want to shower with gays: it's not like he attacked the whole city of New York and its subway system too!!

I had a similar feeling, CITT -- which is what I was thinking last week when I asked if this thread had been dropped or not. It felt like he was let off the hook because he's supposed to be New York's new golden child/celebrity athlete.

And, in response to the poll question from the front page, no one is dumber than Shockey looks -- but I suppose that's part of his charm too.

I think you hear more about John Rocker and Allen Iverson, because besides being homophobic, they do have other issues that keep surfacing. That's not the case with Shockey so far. If Shockey keeps mouthing off like the other two, you will hear more about him in the media I'm sure. Frankly, I only heard about Tavares on this website. Other than that he seems to be quiet.

Since I'm only from New Jersey, I cannot accept the praise or criticism of being self-centered or provincial.

[ September 23, 2002: Message edited by: pat125 ]

Shockey sounds like a young and stupid, ignorant homophobe. But I'm glad we now where he stands. Whereas he was one of the hottest looking rookies to come into the league, he's now one very unattractive human being to me.

What is it about straight guys being afraid to take showers with gay guys? What exactly do they think is going to go occur?

Gay guys'll rape them?

Gay guys will convert them?

Gay guys will become obsessed with them and stare at their dicks, no matter how big or small, no matter how wrinkled and unsightly, at every given chance?

Gay guys will stalk them around the locker room and try to cop a feel, thereby giving the straight men gay cooties?

Gay guys are such animalistic, horny devils that they can't control themselves around straight guys, cause we all know ALL straight guys are SO DAMNED ATTRACTIVE and hot that ANY gay can't keep his whispy little hands off them and just can't help himself and MUST go after every man, straight or not, ignoring rules of respect and decency, not to mention consideration of appropiate behavior in a team locker room.

I mean, are these worried little pussy/warriors called straight professional athletes so easily converted, raped, stalked, taken advantage of?

Here's hoping Shockey grows up a little while he's in dat der big city.

And here's hoping he realizes he's ALREADY played with, been tackled by, pat on the ass by, taken a shower with, traveled with and bunked with men who love men. And that neither the gay world or the world at large revolves around Jeremy Shockey and his convertable little (big) ass.

Randy Boyd,
Outsports columnist
www.westbeachbooks.com/randyboyd

[ September 23, 2002: Message edited by: Randy Boyd ]

I don't know guys, it looks like some of us are trying to have it both ways.
You can't have a forum like Outsports peppered with comments about sniffing dirty jock straps and then wonder why some str8 guys might be uncomfortable in the locker room with gays. You can't have photos like today's pic of Garcia being tackled linked to innuendos about oral sex, and then wonder why some str8 guys may be uncomfortable about having gay teammates. Yes, comments like Shockey's are homophobic but let's not pretend as if they are completely unfounded either.

Z

Z: Comments on a message board do not equate to inappropriate actions in a locker room. There is a place for everything and I would condemn anyone who acted in an inappropriate manner.

Your comments remind me of the fears male jocks had about female reporters in the locker room. Homophobia is homophobia and let's not excuse it.

I have to agree with you to a certain extent, Z. Just as women aren't always comfortable being objectified and ogled, (str8) men aren't either. Sometimes there's a tendency, even here, to sexualize every photo that passes our way...I mean I look at the photos of the day sometimes and can't imagine how someone could find it suggestive or apply an innuendo towards it, but, sure enough they have and they do...it's tedious and overboard..Of course, there's a worthy argument that men are just like that, str8 or gay, but some people are made uncomfortable by it and that's their right....Of course, this Shockey guy just sounds sort of randomly phobic and on the ignorant side.

Randy Boyd -

I am keeping your comments on a file for future use, pal! Thanks! So many times I struggle for words to explain to straight people why straight men's phobia is just ridiculous....


Couldn't have said it better myself (and won't need to, now!)

THANKS!!!!

The New York Daily News is doing something on this. A reporter spoke with Cyd today and also spoke with Shockey, who seemed to back off his comments.

Jim,
I'm not trying to excuse homophobia. All I'm saying is that it's silly to wonder why some str8s may feel uncomfortable in a locker room with gay teammates when you read some of the sexually-driven comments some us write on the message board write about locker room scenarios. I'm gay and the thought of some dude smelling my dirty socks or jock while I'm in the shower makes me uncomfortable. No one wants to be unwillingly objectfied, gay or st8, male or female. It's uncomfortable. That's not to say a gay teammate would do anything inappropriate because their gay and they can't help themselves. That's stupid. But to have initial discomfort is understandable.

As for female reporters in the locker room. . . when they let male reporters in the female locker room to talk to Anna K fresh out of a shower, then I think we're on a leveled playing field. Otherwise, let's not act as if we don't know what the big deal is.

Z

If you take the sexually suggestive things said among homosexuals seriously, you would have to take the sexually suggestive things said among heterosexual males seriously. And if you applied Shockley's reasoning, I don't think women would be able to be in the same room with a straight man no matter what state of attire either of them were in.

I can understand straight guys being uncomfortable with the idea, but when he says "he hopes there aren't any gays in the NFL", he's clearly an idiot. Frankly, given how large football teams are, I'd be surprised if there's any team that doesn't have at least one gay or bisexual player. I remember when they polled baseball players on the issue of whether they would have a problem with a gay teammate, quite a number were intelligent enough to realize that they probably had had gay teammates.

ESPN.com has an article about Shockey's apology, with a quote from Cyd.

Link to article.

In a duplicate thread, TooTee posted:

As a straight male who has grown up and worked in a primarily gay environment... I'm not sure of the hypersensitivity shown by members of the gay community. Let's face it, people make jokes about each other's sexuality. Simply because this guy doesn't "accept" the lifestyle doesn't mean he should. All he needs to do is "tolerate" it.

I love the title of your article. "Shockey has a Problem with gays". Funny thing is, I've met far more gay people who have problems with straight males such as myself. Time and time again, I'm greeted with a sense of trepidation when meeting gay people. (personally, I could care less, since it's not an issue with me until I'm confronted with it)

I've heard much more vile comments from gay men regarding lesbians, straight men and women then I ever have from typically straight people. To make this worse, IGNORANCE is usually the reason for a guy like Shockey to make the comments. Gay men, for the most part, KNOW better. So, ask yourself, which is worse? A dumb jock who shows his ignorance, or a gay guy who conceals his true contempt for straights?

For the record, I don't dislike gays... just new queens- THEY are the worst. (yes Mary, I've seen it before)

I don't know where to start. First of all, as a group, we do not condemn all straight people as being against us or anti-gay. However, you take it upon yourself to relegate the majority of gay men to this "queen" mentality where straight people are the enemy. Everyone I work and associate with, with the exception of my boyfriend, is straight, and they accept me as I am. If any one of them ever said that they "tolerate" me, I would not talk to them for a long time. You tolerate loud music, you tolerate smoking, you don't tolerate things that are part of the core of what makes up a man (or woman).

In addition, please note that the gay men on this site (and around the country) have more faith in "straight" organizations, such as professional sports teams, than those organizations do themselves. We are expecting a good experience for the first gay professional athlete, depending on the general intellect and good humor of the modern common man.

When Shockey makes these statements, he's strenghtening the marginalization of me and my brothers and sisters in the gay community. When I make a joke with my straight friends, they are never threatened or see it as an assault to their right to live the way they live.

I'm glad to see that as a straight person you visit this site. There definitely are annoying gay men who only associate with other gay men, but it's not the norm because many of us don't even have gay men around us to associate with (or we don't know it).

DC guy, I certainly do not mean to relegate the majority of gay men to this "queen" mentality. (my last sentence was to provide some comic relief)

That being said, you are in the company of primarily straight people. I am speaking from the unique point that I was one of the few straight males in the company of primarily gay guys. It is definitely a different experience since the people around me did not feel the need to say the politically correct thing around me. (unlike I do around gay people) I knew exactly where I stood. When I tell you I've heard it all... I really have.

I think what I'm attempting to communicate is that marginalization comes from both sides whether you would like to admit it or not. It's simply a way of justifying your own lifestyle. (including me justifying mine in the environment I used to work in)

Regarding toleration- I humbly suggest that you follow Mr. William Penn's ideals regarding toleration... Here is the definition I was referring to: tol·er·ate Pronunciation Key (tl-rt)
tr.v. tol·er·at·ed, tol·er·at·ing, tol·er·ates
To allow without prohibiting or opposing; permit.
To recognize and respect (the rights, beliefs, or practices of others).
To put up with; endure. See Synonyms at bear1.
Medicine. To have tolerance for (a substance or pathogen).

Simply put, I recognize and respect the rights of others to practice what they would like. I do not have to agree with their beliefs. (sort of like religion, no? If I'm a Jew, does this mean I should accept the Christian lifestyle or tolerate it) Hope this clears up my intentions and points.

In my opinion, it is very difficult for the minority to marginalize the majority. Regardless of your microcosm (one job where you were in the minority) the fact remains that there are many people in this country who believe that my loving relationship should be illegal. There's a difference.

On the subject of tolerance, I still think that people have to do more than respect my right to live as a gay man. For true equality, they have to accept it as being just as valid as the way they live. As a jewish person, you shouldn't just tolerate Christians, you should recognize that their beliefs are just as real to them as yours are to you. You should try to understand their lives and what they believe.

I also believe that religious differences and sexual orientation are not equitable points for comparison. While I tried for years to change my sexuality (to no avail) changing my religion was quite simple.

I'm a little sensitive about this topic as I was forced out of a job due to coming out. Everyone was "tolerant" but since they didn't think our military clients would be, they relegated me to useless in house work. It's hard for me to sympathize with a straight person (man especially) who feels discriminated against by gay people. This is just as I, a white man, cannot truly understand the discrimination in this country against black people. I might taste a bit of it, but the fact remains, I'm still white, and I have all the privileges that come along with that.

I'm sorry this got off the subject of Shockey. I'm really not trying to be a jerk either, I understand what you're trying to say, I'm just pointing out that sometimes what may seem like good sense to you seems negative to me.

It's wrong what shockey said, but old cyd should find something more important to write about, like bottomless flag football. Hey cyd, in case you just came out of the closet and haven't mingled with society in a while, most people feel the same way as shockey. So stopped your whining!

SInce when is it wrong to express an opinion about your likes and dislikes. It's a free country and you can draw any conclusion you want from his comments. He was being honest. I guess everyone would feel better if he went on the show with his PC notebook in hand. LIKE HIM OR NOT HE SPOKE HIS MIND> SO WHAT

I am not asking for any type of sympathy, nor would I want any. Actually, it was where I grew up and worked for several decades... certainly not "one" job. I think we may actually be on the same page regarding tolerance. My interpretaion seems to differ slightly from yours. This country was built on tolerance. I do understand that sexuality and religion may not be the best way to compare.

I agree with your statement that what seems good sense to you may seem negative to me. That statement works from my point of view. If I recognize and respect your beliefs and practices, that is not enough? Recognition and respect equals validation in my book.

Finally, after reading your post again, it seems you are attempting to have me believe what you believe, in the manner in which you believe. (re: you should or shouldn't do this or that) That is not going to happen. Please understand that we are going to disagree with our points of view here. I mean no disrepect towards you. (nor do I think you are coming off as a jerk) I'm just tired of people telling me how I should act and what I should believe and how... Let me simply respect and recognize.

I appreciate our dialogue, thanks.

[quote]Originally posted by Jim at Outsports:
The New York Daily News is doing something on this. A reporter spoke with Cyd today and also spoke with Shockey, who seemed to back off his comments.

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Here's the story -- it's on the front page of nydailynews.com -- that's why we're getting some new visitors today!

Hello Too,
I was just wondering what kind of environment you were talking about. Did you grow up in a Gay house hold with 2 dads, or 2 moms, that was located in the heart of San Francisco's Castro. It almost sounds like you were imprisoned in a Gay Hell that you had to live and work in for years. I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I am just curious about your back ground, because it does sound so unique.

[quote]Originally posted by DCBucky:


Here's the story -- it's on the front page of nydailynews.com -- that's why we're getting some new visitors today!

---

Thanks for pointing that out. I was wondering where this outpouring came from.

MSU, by no means do I mean I was locked in a "gay hell". Oh no! Please don't take my comments to mean that. I simply wanted to provide another point of view from an atypical perspective on the subject.

Getting back to Shockey, let's face it, rednecks come in all shapes and sizes. As a good friend of mine once told me, (he's a black guy who grew up down south and moved up North) "at least down there, I knew where I stood, here I don't know who my friends are". My point being that would you rather have people be honest about how they feel... or conceal their true feelings while harboring a simmering contempt for you. Personally, I'd much rather know where I stand; Which was how I always felt in my environment... I always knew what people felt about me, whether I liked it or not. If they didn't like me, oh well. Their loss. Sort of like Shockey, this guy actually said what is on his mind. (albeit completely ignorant and uninformed) Do you want the guy to tell you want you want to hear? I guess that's a decision we all have to make on our own.

btw, I read the article on espn.com and followed the link here.

I read the article too, and that is how I found this place- I came over to look and see why a 'gay' sight was necessary for sports?! I'm straight and don't really give a shit who is gay or not... But why take offense to someones comments who really doesn't matter? My Mom always said consider the source- I could care less if Shockey hates gays, loves gays or whatever. I do notice that the reason there is a 'gay' site for sports is so people can not talk about sports, but about how nice someone's but is...

The first thing that comes to mind, is a group of people who are in the minority with their sexual preferences, but how dare someone else express their beliefs. Silly. Live and let live, if he had went on there and said 'Hell yeah, I hope there are gays in the locker room, I want them to help me shower' What would the talk be here?

And of course, immediately Rocker has to be thrown into the topic... what about Piazza? Asked if he is gay and says no... he must be the devil too..

Hey Too,
I was actually serious, about being curious. You don't have to give details, I'm just curious about what the environment was. Where I'm from there aren't a whole lot of opprotunities for Nongay or even gay people to be emersed in a gay environment.

Where you a Dancer in a company, or do a lot of theatre, or something? Just curious.

It's interesting to meet a straight guy that has felt, and knows how it feels to be a sexual minority, IE having the opprotunity to fake it and blend in if you had wanted to, or to just be yourself and let others deal with your orientation on their own. I think it is really intersting that's why I'm asking.

Did you ever feel the pressure to just say you were gay because the others that you worked with would accept you more (Ie. go into the straight closet while you were constantly around gay people?)

Once again, no offence intended, it just seems like a very intersting situation that you lived in and we may all be able to learn from your experiences and perspecitive on gay and straight culture, and the line that is drawn in the sand for some odd reason.

Well spoken from someone who doesn't have to deal with the actual life of a gay man.

We want the day to come when people on any sports site would condemn Shockey for making these comments. That's when sites like Outsports will not be necessary. Right now, not one gay man in professional sports has come out, that means that there is not a feeling in sports of "who gives a sh*t." Apparently, enough people like Shockey do to keep people in the closet.

No one here expects or wants any player to say he wants gay teammates to help him shower. That's ridiculous. We want there to be equality and fairness.

By the way, sure we talk about guys butts, have you ever looked at an Anna Kournikova web site? Do you still think that you're a sports fan? I do.The general feeling about Piazza was more one of frustration that it was such an "accusation" that he had to come out as straight. He actually didn't get any bad press on here at all. he handled it well in my opinion. The sad fact is that reporters found it so "bad" that he was gay that they didn't interview him, they put out stories about it in a tabloid.

Too, Steve and Titanium...thanks for your posts. I think it is always good for us to see views of others.

I hope that you stay around and participate in future threads.

But, oh yeah, please, please DON'T bring up Gabe Kapler.

790 The Zone talk radio in Atlanta just mentioned this subject, read the quote from Shockey, quoted Cyd and talked about Outsports. Good PR for us here today! Matt Chernoff is very gay-friendly to us gay jock guys. Chuck Oliver is a big homophobe (and it pains me to say that about an ex-Auburn football player) and had some tongue in cheek things (but harmless, he comes off to me as more ignorant than anything) to say about the guys who probably visit Outsports. Just thought I'd report on more exposure for us. I'm going to go on the Zone's website and thank them for the mention.

DC- Don't think I do not understand your point. But you need to realize that this takes time just like anything else. Hell, look at how long it took for equality between Caucasions and African Americans. And there are still ignorant people on both sides of that battle- Just rest assured that every day there could be one more person who could care less what you werte interested in.

Welcome to the Site, you guys. Too Tee: thanks for sharing your experiences; it's interesting to hear your point of view....

It's great to read some other perspectives and to enjoy a discussion that really has no absolute answers, just interpretations and strong points of view...but I like the mom's statement: "Consider the Source." Moms' always have the wisdom...

And Steve: Cyd's not old! And it's butt, not but...