let's see how the circus that is MLB runs em ....


[Thread title modified for clarity. - Outsports moderator]

[ October 06, 2004, 05:59 AM: Message edited by: m1 ]

I'm not an Expos fan, but the thread looked lonely with that 'zero' beside the title, so I thought I'd give it a boost with this interesting story about pitcher Chad Bentz, who was also featured on a TV sports show last night. Not only does Bentz play with a physical disability, but he is one of a very small number of players from Alaska (that hot-bed of baseball talent ).


http://www.canoe.ca/Slam040222/mlb_mtl1-cp.html

Good for him. I remember Jim Abbott well; I think teams tried to bunt on him early on to test him but he was a good fielder. He could switch that glove in the blink of an eye. He's one of the most popular players the Angels have ever had.

I noticed that the Montreal home opening series is against the Phillies, April 23-25. Another road trip for the Philly gang?

Not for me. I'll be up there for the World Cup of Hockey at the end of August.

The Monterrey Expos?

MLB serious about considering Mexico for Expos

Would they still be an NL team, or would they switch to the American League to even out the AL West? Or, if they stay in the NL, maybe the Rockies could be pushed to the Central and the Pirates to the East?

Monterrey was my choice as well, as I mentioned back on Jan 20 in the 'Au revoir Montreal' baseball thread. I also wondered about re-alignment of teams in the same post, but nobody responded.

Relocating the Expos to Mexico would certainly give the game a more truly international profile. It's too bad that Tokyo is a bit too far away for Japan to field an MLB team too

Maybe this is a stupid question, but: Just what the phuck is MLB doing with the Expos, and why can't MLB get its act together?

Just to complicate things further, today I heard that yet another new home is possible for the Expos...a bid from Connecticut. But the "Connecticut Colonials" would apparently be unable to locate in certain parts of that state because of the proximity to the New York Yankees and Mets markets. There is a news story today on mlb.com about the Expos, but strangely nothing was mentioned about this.

[ March 17, 2004, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: Marc ]

We should have a pool on what season will be their first outside of Montreal. My guess: 2006.

They better relocate the Expos in the USA to get revenues in US dollars to pay for the insane salaries. The price of tickets at San Juan is high so with the novelty factor of MLB gone I'm curious to see if they'll attract the same numbers this year.

The Expos seemed happy with the first day of ticket sales. They were aiming for more than 8,000 tickets sold. Half the sales was for the opening match against the Phillies and the others tickets for the various promotion days: 5$ Thursdays, bobbleheads days (Brad Wilkerson, Warren Cromartie and Youppi!), russian dolls (?), tuques and backpacks. We know what's important in baseball.

Considering the current collective bargaining agreement (which does NOT allow for contraction) expires after the 2006 season, I believe that if MLB doesn't move the Expos after THIS season (which I have increasing doubts that they will) then Selig, Dupuy and Reinsdork will "secretly" drag on the process of "searching" for a new home -- all the while with the true intention of having the Expos continue to play in Montreal/San Juan for two more years and then getting Donald Fehr and the players association to agree to contract the team (along with another one to be named) as part of the next negotiation process.

I still haven't given up hope of the 'Spos moving to DC/NoVa for 2005 but I have a hard time believing that ANY of the other cities that have been mentioned would be given serious consideration for relocation (despite claims to the contrary by that liar Selig and the rest of his corrupt cronies)....without Vasquez and Vlad it's doubtful that Montreal will be as competitive in 2004 as they were last season but I still wouldn't be surprised if Frank Robinson kept them playing around .500 ball for most of the year.

DC throws down the gauntlet! They've made a proposal for the Expos that includes a fully-funded ballpark, which MLB has insisted upon. Now, will MLB accept the deal or will Peter Angelos of the Orioles find a way to block it?

I admit to being a little biased here but I don't see how Selig and his cronies now CANNOT accept DC's offer....all along Bud has publicly claimed that Angelos' absurd objections are not a significant obstacle to moving the 'Spos to DC/NoVa (which for the one-millionth time is NOT the same market as Baltimore) and that the lack of a 100% publicly financed stadium was THE primary stumbling block.

Well, Selig's and Reinsdorf's bluff has finally been called and any of the other cities that are "under consideration" by the relocation committee are laughable by comparison when you objectively review all the demographic facts....the Expos "home" opener in Puerto Rico last night drew only 14,739 fans to the newly expanded stadium (that now has a capacity of over 20K) and San Juan still believes THEY should be a candidate for PERMANENT relocation.

[ April 10, 2004, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: gamecock ]

The Expos are on a 33 innings runless streak. Now they battle the Phillies for the bottom of the NL.

Do they play some home games in Puerto Rico to increase attendance?? There were 8,500 people at the game yesterday. Not incredibly better than what they would get in Montreal.

Home opener April 23rd. I mean Montreal, not San Juan! They play a three game series and then they leave for the road again. The vagrant Expos will spend 9 days in Montreal during the first 48 days of the season.

They are battling for the worst record in MLB. They have trouble at offense. "Montreal's 26 runs tie the third-fewest in major league history in 16 games".

Like it's not enough, the home opener was to be televised. A chance to see the faces of the Expos players, get acquainted with them. With their luck the first game of the Canadiens- Lightning is at the same time so the Expos are out of the TV obviously and replaced by hockey.

The Montreal home opener is being shown on The Score in Toronto, at least.

Interesting Survivor-like opening ceremonies. During the introductions, the players arrived in a boat amid a tropical island-like stage setting, and with sexy conga drummers beating rhythms. Then the player ran with a youth baseball player, holding a Survivor-style torch.

Good-looking former Expo/Blue Jay Darren Fletcher is doing the colour commentary.

[ April 23, 2004, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: canmark ]

ESPN is now reporting that an announcement will officially be made by mid-August that the Expos will be playing in the DC area in 2005 (with there being a "SMALL chance" that MLB will opt for Las Vegas)....all I have to say is FINALLY!....at last there will once again be a REAL major league team playing anywhere in Maryland, DC or Virginia....see y'all at RFK next April!

~Joe

[ July 22, 2004, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: gamecock ]

From the article:

So who owns/manages RFK? Is it the DC government or is it privately owned? If I'm the mayor of DC and I want them to relocate to DC, and I have a say over who uses RFK, I say to MLB, "If you choose Virginia you don't get to use RFK until the new stadium is built--or at least you'll have to pay a very heavy price."

RFK Stadium is owned by the District's Sports and Entertainment Commission. Should the Expos relocate to the District (which according to local media currently has the edge over Northern Virginia), they will play here at RFK while a new stadium is constructed on one of 4 selected sites. Should the team be awarded to the Northern Virginia group, they will likely also play at RFK, although as I understand it, the Mayor has said that would have to be considered if and when it happens. The Mayor has also said that he doubts a new team would adopt the Senators name.

From my perspective, here in the land of taxation without representation, if the Expos move to Virginia, I say screw 'em! They can play in Woodbridge and share a stadium with the Potomac Cannons. After all, should the Expos end up just shy of the Dulles Airport runway in a cornfield with no hope of public transportation for at least ten years, any notion that baseball has returned to Washington is a joke.

Personally, I would rather continue to line the pockets of the Gollum like Peter "Pass the Asbestos Pay Out" Angelos and hike to Charm City for a game.

It seems that the success of the deal is dependent on Selig's ability to compensate Angelos. Another rumor floating around is that the Orioles would move to the National League, and the relocated Expos would go to the American League -- the thought being that as a much larger market, Washington is better positioned to compete with NY and Boston.

Why should that blowhard Angelos be compensated for anything? What's wrong with D.C. having a team? L.A. and Anaheim do well with two in one area, as do Oakland-San Francisco, Chicago, New York, etc.

Amen! People from the District and Maryland hate driving out to Dulles even for an important flight -- much less a ballgame.

Both Don Fehr and Bob DuPuy say that the ESPN report that Expos players were recently told they'd be playing in Washington area next year are wrong. DuPuy went so far -- protesting too much, in my mind -- to call it "... preposterous, not true."

Preposterous? Saying they'd be playing in Huntington WV or Fresno CA -- now that's preposterous.

The Expos just finished off a sweep of the Florida Marlins. Nice going, Expos!

I know the Phils, Braves and Mets were happy to see that....despite their unimpressive record during the first half (which I believe is largely attributable to their horrendous travel schedule, rash of injuries and limited payroll) the 'Spos have a much more talented roster than most fans realize....their starting rotation (Hernandez, Armas and Day, in particular), when healthy, are as good as most pitchers on contending clubs and once they are able to increase their payroll and upgrade the bullpen (which has cost them a TON of games this year) the Expos (or should I call em the Washington Senators ) are a lot closer to competing for the NL East title than many people think -- as they demonstrated the last two years when Frank Robinson led them to back-to-back winning seasons, albeit with Vlad Guerrero in the lineup.

~Joe

[ July 25, 2004, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: gamecock ]

Hell, at least you can get to West Virginia from the District on commuter rail! It's a wonder Senator Byrd hasn't thought that through yet...

Local media reporting today that the Virginia ownership group does not own 2/3 of the land required for their planned city, "Virginia's Ballpark at Diamond Lake" (can Gator Jamie see the stadium rising in her back yard?), although they do own the land for the stadium itself.

Terrific column from DC native Tom Friend on ESPN.com today extolling the virtues of baseball in DC and pointing out many of the fallacies of Peter Angelos' opposition to having a National League team here.

~Joe

Update on the bids: while DC and NoVA are unofficially the frontrunners, there seems to be a push for NoVA, seeing it as less harmful to Peter Angelos. As for playing in RFK if DC doesn't get the Expos:

I guess this is kind of old news, now that Bud Selig has already decided the Expos' fate for 2005, but, since I live in Puerto Rico, I thought I'd share this.

There was a new group of investors, different from the one who brought the Expos in 2003-2004, that made an offer to bring them back, but, as you now know, they were turned down by Bud Selig in favor of relocating the team to the States (Washington, D.C., or Northern Virginia). This group, represented by Miami attorney Scott Shapiro, offered to build a new stadium--at a cost of approximately $350 million--at a town called Fajardo, which is located on the northeast corner of the main island.

These two groups--the one represented by Shapiro and the other one, led by promoter Antonio Muñoz Bermúdez, CEO of MB Sports, Inc.--, proposed to MLB, albeit separately, to bring another team for the 2005 season, be it the Pittsburgh Pirates (considered in part due to the nostalgia factor of Roberto Clemente) or the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. Selig responded that if either team requested to play in Puerto Rico, that the offer would be considered. After the Pirates played against the Expos this year--and the attendance being in the four figures per game, plus the Pirates saying they didn't wish to be relocated--Selig said there weren't any plans for the Pirates to play here. There haven't been any reports in the local papers regarding a Devil Rays relocation.

Local professional baseball has been at its nadir, if my memory serves me well, for more than a decade. I think the bottom line regarding the popularity of the game (or lack thereof) on the island, as seen during the MLB games played here, is the superstar factor, not tickets' cost: for example, games against teams with big-name players --the Cubs (Sammy Sosa), the Mets (Mike Piazza), the Braves (Javier López, before signing with Baltimore), or the Giants (Barry Bonds)-- were almost or complete sellouts, although the novelty factor can't be ignored.

Local baseball analysts have commented that the game would resuscitate if Puerto Ricans who play in the MLB played here during the offseason (as they used to do). I guess they don't because they're either advised not to or just don't wish to, be it to prevent injuries or due to fans' rudeness. (In a recent interview, Roberto Alomar complained that fans' comments to him during games discouraged him from playing here. I won't go into what those comments might've been... wink .) The only major (read: really well-known in Puerto Rico) players who have played here every single season are Chicago White Sox José Valentín--who just bought a team that has been relocated from Santurce to Manatí, his hometown--and Arizona Diamondback Carlos Baerga (no comment here, lol! ).

The Expos' poor performance these past two seasons might be due in part, besides, among other things, MLB's mishahandling, to internal conflicts with Frank Robinson. It was reported in a local paper that Robinson called the team to a meeting to see if any of the players wished to make any comments about him or vent about the current situation, and, allegedly, José Vidro just stood up and left.

An editorial in this morning's Washington Post compares Peter Angelos' argument that Baltimore and Washington are "too close" to support two MLB teams with the current situation in the Bay area where the Giants and A's are on pace to draw over 5.2 Million combined fans this season despite having a smaller population base to draw from, playing in an old antiquated stadium (in the case of the Athletics), and being located much closer geographically to each other than DC and "Charm City".

As the Post editorial points out in its opening paragraphs:

The best argument for bringing major league baseball back to the nation's capital lies on the other side of the continent, in the San Francisco Bay area. There the San Francisco Giants, playing in a glamorous new stadium, are on a pace to draw 3.2 million fans this year. Meanwhile, the Oakland Athletics, in an old stadium not well suited to baseball, can expect to bring in more than 2 million for home games. And keep in mind that these two stadiums are only about 17 miles apart, not 35 or 40 or whatever distance would separate a Washington area team from the Baltimore Orioles.

One reason both clubs can do well in the same area is that both play good baseball. That could have something to do with a stimulant not currently available in the vast market where Peter Angelos would like to maintain his monopoly (a market containing over a half-million more people than the Bay area). The stimulating factor is called competition, and the Orioles might benefit from a bit more of it -- as would Washington's new team and all of baseball, for that matter.

~Joe

According to the Washington Post the Virginia group has scaled back their proposal for a ballpark and lots of other stuff...

a couple of comments on this from a local. sort of my "point counter point" on this issue.
jane, you ignorant slut. ;-)

its hilarious to hear people in dc whining about peter angelos making objections about a team here. think back folks. jack kent cooke did the same thing when baltimore tried to get an nfl expansion team in 1993. two metropolitan areas half its size ended up with one as a result and it indirectly led to the whole cleveland browns debacle. the ravens have been no problem for the redskins to handle - they still have a long waiting list for season tix. jkk had no reason to try and block a team up there. he even tried to have the new stadium built in anne arundel county at one time, slightly closer to baltimore than dc. angelos has a right to be more concerned since he needs to get fannies in the seats 81 times a year, not 8.

also hilarious is that people in the dc area consider the loudoun/fairfax county border to be in idaho. christ people, try living in los angeles, dallas, or houston where you have to drive an hour+ to do anything. the metro will run out that way someday, and frequent shuttle service can help mitigate traffic woes in the meantime. isn't the stadium in foxboro much further from boston than herndon is from washington? how long does it take to get from downtown LA to anaheim?

that said, i suspect the expos will end up in dc. and they would do well if the park was next to an existing metro stop, whether its in the district or virginia. the orioles will lose about 20 pct in attendance, which has been on a downward trend anyway like most clubs. this team has been pathetic for years and the novelty of camden yards is wearing off. still, 20 pct lopped off of what theyve drawn in the past
is still pretty healthy - i think they drew close to 3.5 million a few years back.

another prediction, a new dc stadium will be built at O street and south capitol in se. this area of town is nasty but home to several gay nightclubs and other, um, establishments. ;-)
they'll be mowed down if the new park goes up there.

You mean where the bars with the naked dancing boys are? Is that one of the locations they're actually discussing?

yes, it is one of the proposed sites. another is on new york avenue not too far from the dc eagle.

No, we just think it's Virginia!

Other proposed stadia sites are on the grounds of RFK Stadium (on the Anacostia River, about 15 blocks directly east of the Capitol), and at Bannecker Park, near L'Enfant Plaza. Word is that MLB prefers the L'Enfant Plaza site, which is within walking distance of 4-5 Metro stations, but which would be a really tight fit. The site reminds me of PNC Park, where great things were done on a very small footprint.

[ August 29, 2004, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: PennState4Ever ]

I read the other day that Portland OR is proceeding with getting funding approval for a MLB ballpark. Apparently they think they're still in the running. :confused:

According to two articles in today's Washington Post a decision on the future home of the Expos is imminent and when MLB's Executive Council meets tomorrow in Milwaukee the relocation committee is expected to tell them that "the District is clearly the most viable place to move the Expos"....Tom Boswell, who has written literally hundreds of columns over the past 25 years extolling the virtues of baseball returning to DC and detailing the "certain" move of the Padres, Pirates and Astros to our nation's capital that he has become downright cynical on the subject, points out in his column this morning that "the Expos are so close to coming to the District right now that, if you were Charlie Brown, you'd be absolutely, positively certain that, this time, you were going to kick that miserable football before Lucy could pull it away"....Boswell's column also includes the following:

"We believe we're down to the last inch in getting the relocation committee to recommend the District as the home for the Expos in '05" at Thursday's Executive Council meeting, District Deputy Mayor Eric Price said yesterday.

"An 'inch' might be too close," said Bob DuPuy, baseball's second-highest-ranking official, "but discussions have been very productive [recently]."

According to numerous sources, the District will find out whether it gets the Expos by Oct. 1, though the earlier part of next week is more likely. "That's the right timeline," said a highly placed baseball source.

The other column in today's Post, which appeared on the front page, talks about DC disclosing plans to build a stadium on the Anacostia waterfront near South Capitol Street....the fact that the 20 acre site and the immediate surrounding area is presently the home of several gay bars/clubs (not that I would know, of course, since I have never been to Secrets, Ziegfeld's, La Cage or Wet, among others, over the past 10-15 years ), all of which would presumably be put out of business and/or demolished to make room for the stadium, adds an interesting sidebar to this proposed stadium site.

MUCH more info is bound to be released and leaked to the media following tomorrow's meeting, which may become a bit contentious involving at least one billionaire owner, to say the least....even though, as Boswell accurately points out, "Angelos ultimately has no actual right to block an Expos move to D.C., except to appeal to his fellow owners -- as one monopolist to 28 others -- to defend him and his perennial losing franchise from competition" perhaps Peter might want to have his physician nearby in Milwaukee to give the volatile attorney medication for his increasing blood pressure, which will undoubtedly be skyrocketing when he learns of the final decision.

~Joe

[ September 22, 2004, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: gamecock ]

from earlier:
Yep -- from the accompanying map in the Post (there was a more detailed one in the print edition) it looks like home plate will be right where male strippers do their thing at the Follies!

IT'S GOING THE HAPPEN!! It's just going to be a matter of how much money MLB is going to pay Angelos to reimburse him -- buy him off.

And it was just a few years ago that we were taling about contraction of teams, one of them being the Expos. The other if I recall was the Twins, which I guess can't be contracted now due to the success the team has had of late. Of course there is a connection between the Expos, Twins and Washington.
The original Washington Senators team played in D.C from the early 20th century till 1960 when they left Washington and became the Minnesota Twins. MLB expanded again in 1961 and a new Washington Senators team was born, only to leave in 1971 I think and become the Texas Rangers. In the mid-80s the San Diego Padres came very close to moving to D.C but did not. While Washington is certainly a better option than remaining in Montreal I fail to see why the franchise needs to be preserved.
Attendance at last nights game in Olympic Stadium was 3,839. Of course it was a weeknight game against the Mets.

Maybe they can get one of those cute dancers to throw out the first pitch ....all kidding aside, I'm thrilled about baseball finally returning to DC (although considering how close we've been SO MANY times before, as one member of the relocation committee said yesterday, "I'll believe baseball is back in Washington after I actually see a game played there") the location they've chosen for a new stadium is without a doubt the WORST of the four proposed sites -- but that appears to be a decision that is irrevocable now.

The Washington Blade also had a column on this Navy Yard stadium site a few months back which implied that due to zoning restrictions and city ordinances the "relocation options" for these gay bars/clubs would be VERY limited in the District....as they say in the news "Stay Tuned" -- much more info is bound to follow in the coming days and weeks.

~Joe

[ September 22, 2004, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: gamecock ]

Those dancing boys and the club owners better save up their tip money for some good attorneys. wink

Perhaps some of those dancing boys and club owners are themselves good attorneys. wink

~Adam

They've got alot of work to do down there. The neighborhood is scary as far as the eye can see off to the east.

This site is potentially the most damaging to the Orioles so Angelos is going to scream bloody murder. It is very easily accessible from Maryland by car or train. The Anacostia Freeway/295 is very close by. Getting down there for a 730 game is likely to be a trick though given this area's traffic woes.

I think its a done deal. There's truthfully nowhere else for the Expos to go that comes close to what Washington can offer.

Say bubbye to the dancing boys down there. Its probably one of the reasons they chose this spot. Adult businesses are not something politicians like having around.

It looks like the gloves are already off....according to several reports today (including this one from ESPN.com) Angelos, despite being a member of baseball's relocation committee, has REFUSED TO ATTEND TODAY'S MEETING in Milwaukee....the story goes on to say that attempts by MLB to discuss a financial settlement with Peter (in exchange for the Expos move to DC, which Angelos has absolutely NO jurisdiction over anyway due to Baltimore being outside of the "territorial boundaries" set by baseball) have been met not just with a "no" but with a resounding "hell no" by the arrogant attorney.

It couldn't happen to a better guy....I'm not sure which I'm more excited about -- baseball finally returning to DC or the worst owner in all of professional sports (who single-handedly turned one of the most successful and classiest franchises in the game into a perennial loser and laughing-stock) ultimately getting his come-uppance.

~Joe

You got it all wrong. The site that is potentially most damaging to the Orioles is between Angelos' ears.

From ESPN.com:

Point taken. Angelos is not a great owner. No question about it. Compared to Robert Irsay though, the former drunken Baltimore Colts owner, I'd take him any day. I'm probably the only one on this board that remembers watching him red faced and hungover at a news conference 5 days before skipping town saying "I'm not moving the goddamn team". The rest is history.

How many owners would say "thats great" if a new team were plopped down 35 miles from their home stadium? Does Target think "no problem" when a Super Walmart gets built across the street? The man cannot be faulted for fighting for his financial interest.

Baltimore folks don't care much for Washington. They wish it would disappear. Sports is only one reason why. DC lured the Bullets out of town in the early 70s. They tried to get the Orioles for a few years after the Senators left. Jack Kent Cooke, former Redskins owner, fought successfully to keep an NFL expansion team out of town in the early 90s. He had no reason to do that. The Redskins have a season ticket waiting list a mile long.

I think the Expos are on the way. But if they don't end up here, I will not cry. It would be a payback of sorts for past wrongs.

I'm not sure how long you've been living in the DC area, bulgefreak, or following the tactics of Angelos but in my opinion you're giving Peter FAR too much leeway here....he may be an effective trial lawyer (as least when it comes to winning multi-billion dollar asbestos suits) but when it comes to operating a major league baseball club Angelos has proven time and time again for 12 years that he has NO CLUE what he is doing....and to make matters worse, he has driven away dozens of competent baseball men (both in the front office and on the field) whose expertise and experience in the game would have enabled the franchise to sustain the class, professionalism and glory that the O's had achieved for over 20 consecutive years prior to the arrogant attorney's arrival in Charm City.

Even though it's being widely reported that the Expos move to DC is a done deal (and will officially be announced by Selig within the next 48-72 hours ) Tom Boswell's column over the weekend was one of the best he's written on the subject and accurately points out some of Angelos' MANY faults that have led to his own demise, including:

Who but this litigious bully would try to hijack the nation's capital when he has no shred of a legal claim? Baseball's bylaws are specific. Angelos knew the deal when he bought the Orioles in '92. He could block an American League team from moving too near his town, but not a National League club. Everybody knew it then and knows it now. That's why the sport sits in stunned disbelief as Angelos -- despite enormously generous indemnification offers to which he has no technical claim -- sits on the floor screaming "No, no, no" over a decision that's both good for baseball and outside his control.

In his little B&O Warehouse world, Angelos has acquired the demeanor of a rich provincial liege who has slipped into a habit of self-delusion. In Annapolis politics and tort litigation he still calls the shots. But, when he finds himself in a larger sphere than Bal'mer, he blinks as though the light seems foreign.

Many of us are watching. And deciding whether the actions of a peevish egotist with too many millions and too little decency will alienate us permanently from a baseball team that has provided us with so much pleasure.

The odd creature we see before us now is a man who has no claim on an inch of Washington territory or more than 1/29th of the purchase price of the Expos.

At the moment, the balance between residual affection for the Orioles and contempt for Angelos's behavior is precarious. Each day that Angelos stamps his foot like a rich brat he loses more of the "swing" fans between Baltimore and Washington that he claims to crave so desperately. And he not only loses us as ticket buyers, but as loyal TV viewers as well.....And, some day, I hope we get to beat your brains out in the first Baltimore-Washington Parkway World Series.

~Joe

[ September 27, 2004, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: gamecock ]

Did you hear about Lee Mazzilli's solution? Have the Washington Whatevers go to the AL and move the Orioles to the NL.

Apparently Angelos is beginning to come to terms. The Baltimore Sun reports this in Tuesday's paper...

I'm not sure how long you've been living in the DC area, bulgefreak, or following the tactics of Angelos but in my opinion you're giving Peter FAR too much leeway here

----------------------------------------

I've lived here probably longer than you have been alive. Not relevant though. I don't consider myself a Washingtonian sports wise.

As I said in my post, no one can argue that Angelos is a good owner. I wasn't giving him leeway except to point out that ANYONE who owned the team would object to another team being moved so close. Jack Kent Cooke did it. For no good reason. Is that ok and Angelos objections are not? Of course the DC media is going to paint him as a devil. What they print about him is irrelevant because it is so biased (just as you are by not acknowledging the fact that the Orioles will lose fans). What did they say about Cooke? What do they say about Daniel Snyder? Not nearly enough.

The Expos are coming so its not really worth debating I guess. I hope both teams can co-exist and be successful and prosperous. If they ever do meet in a Beltway series many years from now, I'll be at Camden Yards in orange and black, hopefully with the franchise under new ownership. ;-)

re: the new stadium site, a local community activist has put together a great website -- interesting pictures of the current surroundings (it really is a wasteland down there).

Will we get the announcement from the Commish today?!?!?!

I just returned from a weekend in Montreal, and saw the Expos play the Phillies twice. There is group of Expos fans working to try and keep the Expos in Montreal, their optimism about the Expos staying is refreshing, but probably unwarranted.

I think it is sad that MLB is not allowing the Expos to have an official goodbye to their fans in Montreal. Wednesday night's game is being billed as the final home game of the season. Although there are a lot of things planned that evening (autographs, honoring 1994 team, fan appreciation day), the fans of Montreal deserve better. In Philadelphia we got to experience a moving goodbye to the Vet when the Phillies moved to a new ballpark. The loud and passionate fans of Montreal, although maybe small in number, deserve a real goodbye.

Expos/MLB website says Expos are expecting 25,000 fans Wednesday night.