Just heard this discussion on the sports radio station in Toronto.

It seems that MLB is mandating certain ceremonies to take place at the Opening Day games. In particular, ceremonies honoring U.S. soldiers in Iraq and the playing of God Bless America.

The sports guys (one of whom is an American citizen, although he lives in Canada), suggested that this might be inappropriate in Toronto seeing as God Bless America is an American patriotic song and that honoring the Iraq war activities may be seen as a slap in the face of the Canadian government's stance. And why should we insult our own government in our own country? And why run the risk that some ignorant fans might boo God Bless America and cause an even greater controversy.

The flipside argument is that if the Blue Jays don't partake in these ceremonies it would be seen as a slap in the face of America.

So, it's a lose-lose situation.

Other comments were that baseball should stay out of politics. And a "moment of silence" for soldiers and civilians of all nationalities might be more appropriate.

Monday night's opening day game is the NY Yankees @ Toronto Blue Jays. I'll be there, somewhat worried at what may or may not transpire.

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Article in today's Globe and Mail, Jays fans to sing U.S. praises



[ March 29, 2003, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: canmark ]

I think I've criticized the Canadian government more than anyone else on this board, over the Chretien government's failure/refusal/unwillingness to support the United States on the Iraq issue. That said: I don't see a problem in Toronto refraining from participating such ceremonies.

Not only that: it would be appropriate.

It is wonderful that Major League Baseball is planning such a display in U.S. cities. I whole-heartedly support that taking place at the home openers of all 28 U.S.-based franchises. Make that 29 with the first Expos "home" game in sunny San Juan. That does not apply with regard to the Blue Jays.

There should be no such ceremony at SkyDome. In fact, I think it's somewhat unseemly to require the folks of one country to participate in a ceremony honoring another country's military. It's nice if the citizens voluntarily want to do it, but it's rather disquieting for anyone in the U.S. to force anyone in another country to honor our military -- even a private enterprise like the Office of the Commissioner of Major League Baseball. It kind of smacks of colonialism, or worse, fascism.

I don't foresee anyone (well, anyone serious) being bothered by the fact that "God Bless America" isn't played in Toronto opening day (or Montreal, for that matter, if applicable).

I also would expect there to be less of an emotional reaction at a baseball game than there would be a hockey game. There's more nationalistic fervor in Canada at a hockey game. I think there's a perception that baseball is an American game being played in Canada, while hockey is a Canadian game that's sometimes played in the U.S.

(Hey, I still feel that the Phoenix Coyotes should be repatriated to Winnipeg, and the Avalanche returned to their rightful home in Quebec City.)

[ March 28, 2003, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: Charlie in the Trees ]

This sounds like one of Bud's attempts to make himself appear as Mr. Wonderful or something. The more he does, the bigger fool he appears to be.

Although I have criticized my government's position re: Iraq in another thread, do the Powers that Be in MLB really have the authority to order the singing of 'God Bless America' for games being played OUTSIDE the US? That seems a bit heavy handed to me.

Another controversy surrounding the opening game in Toronto tomorrow, albeit with a less political tone, is the fact that the Blue Jays placed ads in local newspapers urging fans (in English and Japanese) to come out and boo the Yankees' new sensation Hideki Matsui. Apparently the ads also showed a picture of a Yankees' cap covered in bird droppings. It was reported that Joe Torre expressed his displeasure about the ads. I much prefer the Blue Jays to the Yankees, but in a way I can see Torre's point. Visiting teams should expect to take some razzing, but this seems to be stretching the bounds of good taste.

Isn't baseball considered a private organization. Free speech, which includes the right not to speak, has always been curtailed by private bodies whether in this country or elsewhere.

Peer pressure kills free speech all the time. It happens more during times of great national emotional tension, but it constantly happens.

Canada has often presented the opportunity for USA citizens to observe, or even participate in, free speech when they could not do it at home.

It is one of the many intangible favors for which we owe the Canadians. It does not, and probably never will not, show up on a balance sheet in the minds of most of us here in the US. Still I think it's worth keeping in mind.

Because of this thread, I made sure to watch the coverage of the Yankee game. The crowd seemed to be on the supportive side. I think I heard a few boos. Most of the people looked like they didn't know how to react. It was short and sweet. Was that Selene Dion? What does it mean to be Canadian? Have they ever fought for freedom? Just wondering...

Presumably it's not a matter of the game being played outside the US. It's a matter of the Blue Jays being a member of MLB. If MLB is in charge, they have to do what MLB says. I don't think they should have ordered it to be played in Canadian ballparks, though. After 9/11 is one thing. This is entirely different.

I can think of some examples to the contrary.

I was at the (disappointing for me) Yankees-Jays game last night. There was much cheering during the Star Spangled Banner and God Bless America.

My only gripe with the game was: Why do people choose to get up and sit down right in the middle of an At Bat?! Why can't they wait until the end of the AB or the end of the inning? I know they're not paying attention, but between the "fans" standing up and sitting down and all the vendors walking up and down the aisles, it was hard to pay attention to the game.

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Oh, I'm reminded: the usher in my section was young and cute. Loved it when he told these noisy Buffalo university students "don't swear!" We're so polite, we Canadians. wink

Where were you sitting rickinto? I was in 113A, row 6... that's down the right field line between Carlos Delgado and Frankie Catalanotto.

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Further reading... supposedly this God Bless America thing will go on. The song is to be played at all Sunday games and on "national" holidays. It's not clear whether Canada Day (July 1) is considered one of those "national" holidays. The Jays will be in Detroit that day.

[ April 01, 2003, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: canmark ]

I too, was at the Jays Home opener, and was one of the people cheering, and SINGING the American National Anthem.

Speaking of waiting till the at bat is over, I was waiting to go back to my seat during an at bat, when two Americans, were complaining that they couldn't get back to their seats, because the usher was holding up the line. They were actually complaining that the Skydome staff sucked and that this country is too damn polite. I couldn't help but laugh.

[ April 01, 2003, 06:02 AM: Message edited by: rickinto ]

Because, my friend, 70% of the crowd at the ballgame are NOT there to WATCH IT... As dispiriting a development as audiences talking OVER a quiet musical act every time I go to see one... people go merely to say they went, I guess.

The real question for me is how an antiwar baseball fan should deal with "God Bless America" and the anthem during an unjust, imperial war. Going to the loo isn't going to be enough now. Holding a peace sign aloft seems effective... and potentially dangerous.

I was section 128, row 1, right behind third base, I saw the Jeter collision right up close, and then saw an instant replay of the whole thing, because the photographer, in the press box shot the whole sequence.

Canmark, was this usher blonde, young, with furry forearms? We had this guy in our area for a couple of innings and he was pinching his "manhood" for most of the time, when he was sitting down in the press box. We thought that he had to go to the bathroom, but was not allowed to take a break. Actually sorry, he could not have been an usher, he was on the field.

Ps Canmark, where is your Eric Hinske Booblehead on display?

[ April 01, 2003, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: rickinto ]

rickinto... No, my usher had short brown hair and his name was "Darrin" (I checked his name tag wink )

Later, we got an usher who looked like Jim Allen.

But was the furry-armed blonde Ump perchance? I never see those umps take a pee break... wink

As for my Eric Hinske bobblehead, it's in my bedroom... where angels fear to tread... eek!

Nice try, Canmark. wink

We're just too damn fast for ya.

Actually now that you mention the ump, the Third base ump was kinda hot...I think his number was 50 or 51...? Care to enlighten me about him Ump????

On another note, the attendence for the second game in the opening Jay-Yanks series dropped to just above 15,000. It was an afternoon game, but still !!!!!

[ April 02, 2003, 05:41 AM: Message edited by: rickinto ]

I know, right? The lower level at Skydome looked so desolate on TV yesterday...

Sign at Blue Jays game (as seen on JumboTron and held by a teen boy): I LUV BJs! wink

Stand respectfully and not sing the words.

Not everything in this world should be taken as an opportunity to engage in in-your-face protesting against whatever suits your fancy. Listen to the Byrds words from "Turn Turn Turn" (via Ecclesiastes): "a time to every purpose under heaven."

It's a baseball game, not a candidate forum.

Although this thread starting with a discussion on the appropriateness of playing a U.S. patriotic song at SkyDome in Toronto, I guess it turns out that the only thing "desecrating" SkyDome during the opening two days of the baseball season has been the abysmal play of the Blue Jays.

Oh, I'm sure you can find out a little information about him if you really put your mind to it, rick. wink

Don't have to ask me twice to look for a good looking man (Ump) on the net. Too bad he is married, but hey so was I...there is hope wink

If you go here, there's a list of all the MBL umpires with a bio and a picture. I notice that Randy Wolf's brother is not on the roster this year.

Let me use this space to--again--say that we should replace the awful, ghastly Star Spangled Banner with America the Beautiful as our national anthem. I went to a Kings v. Canucks game last week and to hear the putrid SSB after the glorious Oh, Canada was embarrassing. Surely the US can do better than those awful, warmongering words and terrible-as-musical-word-setting *cough* tune *cough*.

I sit down with my arms folded across my chest during God Bless America. I refuse to honor a fictional character in a book of myths blessing this country at other countries expense at a baseball game.

Canmark, how unfortunate for you!

[ April 02, 2003, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]

Here's handsome Jim Wolf , on the AAA roster, where I also noted for the first time that Dan Iassogna is married with kids. Not that I care one way or the other, I was just curious...

Oh, but the Jim Allen clone was quite delightful. When a foul ball landed several rows above me, he ran there, frantically asking "Is everybody OK? Are you all right? Nobody's hurt? Is everything OK?"

[quote]Ump25:
[qb]
I never see those umps take a pee break... wink
[quote]We're just too damn fast for ya. [/quote]I thought they just all wore Depends....

[ April 03, 2003, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]