OK, I've been waiting for someone to start a thread for this team but for some reason no one has! Whatsupwithdat?! Is everyone just lethargic from a lackluster spring training or is everyone still busy on the Bonds/Steroid thread?

Anywho, I'm looking forward to another season at Pac Bell Park (yes, kill me, it's easier to say PBP than SBC). But I'm really nervous about the pitching. Both Rob Nenn and Jason Schmidt haven't had any good early reports about their comeback and just this week Nenn and Scott Eyre were placed on the DL. So a lot is riding on new guy Brett Tomko and the one-season vet Jeroime Williams. (And of course Woody, who's probably rubbing his ears really hard right now.)

I am looking forward to seeing the new catcher Pierzynski. Looks like he's coming into the season full force with his hitting, so that'll be nice. I wonder where in the order he'll bat since there will be a lot of new faces.

So I can't wait till the season starts. It's still a few days away (more exhibition games, including the typical Bay Bridge series with the As this weekend) but I'm hoping this year will have some exciting games! See you at the park!

I'm pumped about the upcoming Giants season. Pitching is a cause for worry, but if Schmidt and Nen emerge healthy and productive, it's a non-problem.

I cannot believe that CITT picked the Dodgers to win the NL West this year. Wrong! They just don't have much of an offense.

I'm going to the Friday and Saturday exhibition games against the A's, the first at Pac Bell Park and the other over in Oakland. Hope I don't get beaned by a cell phone over there at the Coliseum.

Better to be beaned by a cel phone at the 'Net than to have some dot-com yuppie spill chardonnay on you at Pac Bell/SBC/Whatever Park

But seriously, a lot of writers have picked Not-the-Giants in the West, ESPN & SI both picked the Snakes and ESPN's Gammons picked the Giants to finish 4th (!). I'm not that pessimistic, but despite hopeful signs last nite, I'm still not convinced. It certainly won't be the cakewalk it was last year.

Was last year really a cakewalk for the Giants? Sure, they had a great start with that winning streak, but there were a lot of nail-biter games, from what I recall. Mostly due to the pitching.

I think last night's game was the same as last year, another come-from-behind-all-about-Barry win. So I agree this year will be tough, but hopefully our boys can pull it through somehow.

I have to say, so far I haven't been impressed by the two Milwaukee Brewer pitching acquisitions, Estrella and Franklin. Franklin did poorly during the last exhibition game and Estrella last night couldn't get any outs and loaded the bases. Although, I have to admit, both men are great additions to the eye candy bull pen. Why didn't Alou bring in my stud Jim Brower? Isn't he always called in to get us out of jams? Is something wrong with Brower this season? Haven't seen him pitch yet.

And by the way, do people really think the Diamondbacks will top the division even after losing Schilling and a whole bunch of guys like Counsell and Spivy, et al? I doubt it. I think the snakes have the World Series jinx where you win it and then fall apart the next few years (see Anaheim).

Since there's no Astros thread, lemme ask this here: Why did Jimy Williams leave Pettitte in to bat with the bases loaded with the tying run on base when he was pulled for Micelli the next inning?

Probably so Pettitte could "gut it out" or some Rick Sutcliffe-friendly cliche like that...

How about SF reliever David Aardsma not only getting the win last night, but displacing Hank Aaron as the first alphabetical MLB player of all time? Hank will likely be displaced from first in another category by a different Giant in a few years, of course.

Again, I'm not impressed with the bull pen for the Giants so far this season. David Aardsman seemed to just prolong the inning. Granted, I wasn't watching carefully because I was in the middle of something but seems like he could have gotten out of it more easily. And again, I ask, where's Jim Brower? Why isn't Felipe using him?

Oh, and for the Pettite at bat, do you think because he's never had to bat in the AL that they wanted to get him used to at bats for the season with the Astros? Maybe that was it?

I think being in first place the entire season and winning 100 games qualifies as a cakewalk, weak division or not.

Ugh, Matt Herges is not a closer!

What a game last night! Too bad Boomer couldn't get the win, though. A win in the new stadium bodes well for the Phillies on Monday.

I'm not sold on Petco Park yet, but I don't hate it either. I'm not sure how I feel about the beach out in center field...

The suspense is over -- at least for now, as Bonds has tied Willie Mays at 660!....he hit a 3 run shot in the 5th in their home opener off of Milwaukee's Matt Kinney to put the Giants ahead 5-4....anyone care to lay odds on how long it will take Barry to hit 54 more and tie Babe Ruth for 2nd at 714?

[ April 12, 2004, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: gamecock ]

Bonds hits 660--BFD--he's still third`in the record books. Lots of third runners don't get this attention. So ridiculous and how soon will the euphoria dissolve when we learn how long he was doped up?

660 *

LOL Munson Man!!! Talk about a picture saying a thousand words!

I thought the whole "passing of the torch" thing was embarrassing. I can see why the Astros didn't want that going on in their park. I wonder, is the significance that so many Olympic athletes have been found to have used performance enhancers while setting all those world records too? That Willie Mays has a wickedly dark sense of humor!

Again, what's with all the Bonds bashing? If any other current athlete batted 660, I'm sure the same attention would be focused on it because we're getting to see history being made in our time. Sure, in a few years, no one will remember. So that's why we appreciate the moment now. Geesh, why don't you guys starts a "I Hate Bonds" thread and leave this thread for postings on Giants baseball.

You mean like the Yankee haters stay out of the Yankee thread? Our gripes are Giant-related, so here they'll stay. At least until the moderators tell us otherwise.

Bonds is a controversial figure. We don't all have to bow down before the Altar de Bonds.

661 *

This column by ESPN's Jayson Stark points out what I have been saying all along -- that AARON'S RECORD IS SAFE!....Now that Barry has begun to publicly come clean (at least in terms of the HR record, anyway ) and admit that he DOES want to catch Hank (which he falsely denied year after year in the past) the greatest satisfaction that the millions of TRUE baseball fans who make up the anti-Bonds contingent can get is seeing him NOT be able to reach 755.

As Jayson Stark accurately points out in his column, not only will "father time" catch up with Barry but I am certain that as the facts from the BALCO trial continue to surface a combination of the intense media scrutiny (which will be well deserved in this instance, I might add), increased scorn from the American public who DESPISE cheaters along with the side affects from his years of steroid use manifesting themselves in "nagging" injuries and more time spent on the DL will ultimately prevent Bonds from attaining that goal and dethroning Aaron, who demonstrated more class and dignity in his career than Barry could ever dream of.

Of course, if somehow Bonds should hit another 95 homers to reach that magical 756 plateau then feel free to save this post to prove me wrong -- however, I seriously doubt that will happen.

[ April 14, 2004, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: gamecock ]

Uh... gamecock? Homering in 7 consecutive games as of last nite... the record is 8. He's on fire. Unless this is a last gasp before he keels over, still think Aaron's record is "safe"?

There seems to have been a focus only on Bond's HR stats for the last several years. How does he measure up against other top major league players regarding singles, doubles, etc. How about fielding? Does he hustle to make plays? Does he run full blast to first on a prayer he might make it on an in field hit?

I dont frankly know much because I dont watch the Giants (dont dislike them, just have many other teams I follow). I have only seen a couple of games where Bonds played and he left me with a "Juan Gonzalez" impression, meaning he did not hustle to get at fly balls that were not within 20 ft of his position.

Plus I'm not a big fan of the HR kings. Give me a solid consistent journeyman player a la Will Clark anyday. Again, not really making a judgement about how good Bonds really is outside of HRs, just soliciting info.

Well, I'll give ya that -- he's not the hustling-est guy in the league (which contributes to his stand-offish image). Partly because he's big and bulky and 39 -- what helps him at the plate is a hindrance on the field.

A journeyman over Bonds? What the hell? He's been hitting a home run a game, batting .500 (which means his OBP is off the charts), and is still a very good fielder. He's singlehandedly kept the Giants in games so far this year. It doesn't matter if you're not as fast when you're trotting around the bases after a home run.

Bonds had tremendous range in the field as a young player, it's his weak arm that caused Pittsburgh to move him out of center field. He has o He's quite a bit slower today, but then, who isn't slower at 39 than 25? In addition to home runs, Bonds is 2nd among all active players in stolen bases (500), 2nd in doubles (536), 4th in hits (2595). He's one of the best, no matter what criteria you use--way, way out of Will Clark's league.

I'm sorry but I think you missed the point. No way was I comparing Will Clark's and Barry Bonds's level of talent. Of course Barry has TONS more talent than 99 percent of the guys in the big league. I was only expressing my opinion (and I dont anyone else need share it) that I prefer to watch the all around good player that has a good level of talent but busts his butt every day, stays in shape, puts the team first and is reliable season after season, team after team (cause you know they get traded a few times during their careers).

As for Barry, all I hear is that he is the greatest HR hitter ever. whee....not going to get me to one of his games, but again, just my opinion. Share it, dont share it, I dont care.

Well, you asked what else he did besides hit home runs and I noted his career stolen bases, doubles, etc. Reliable season after season, team after team? Well, he's won MVP awards with both teams, and it's hard to imagine a better model for consistency:

12 consecutive 30+ HR seasons
20+ doubles in 17 of 18 seasons (only 18 in strike-shortened 1994)
Top 5 in league in OBP 13 of last 14 years
Played at least 130 games in 15 of last 17 seasons
His worst season of the past 14 years, he still had 83 RBIs in an injury-shortened 102 games in 1999. How much more consistent and reliable could he be?

Fielding - he won 8 gold gloves. Granted, he hasn't been the same since '99, but very players are great fielders at 39.

It seemed to me you were arguing that he's a one-dimensional home run hitter, like Dave Kingman. He's not...he is a great all-around player who also happens to hit a ton of home runs. If you turned all his home runs into singles, he would have been a fantastic lead-off man.

As to Will Clark: if Bonds' advantage over Will Clark is all his "talent", why is it that Clark emerged as a superstar younger? If Clark worked so damn hard, why did he peak as a player at 25? Bonds at that age was just finding his game. Bonds isn't the most talented player of the last 25 years--Ken Griffey Jr. had more raw talent, IMHO. He's just the best. You don't stay on top of your game into your late '30s without working really, really hard. Talk about steroids all you want, Canseco and Caminiti (the only players we KNOW used them) sure weren't able to extend their careers. Canseco, by the way, likely had as much or more talent than Bonds, too.

Well, JC...sorry if I worded it badly. I was not arguing anything about how he is a one dimensional HR hitter, only that in today's baseball world, that all anyone ever talks about regarding Bonds. That, and that some folks do not seem to like him for whatever reason. I was simply trying to get a better feel for what kind of player he is outside of hitting HR's. Outside of looking stats. Hence my original question "How does he measure up against other top major league players regarding singles, doubles, etc. How about fielding? Does he hustle to make plays? Does he run full blast to first on a prayer he might make it on an in field hit?"

I was not arguing that he was NOT reliable, not consistent, not any of those things. I couldnt, because I did not know whether he was or wasnt.

I feel like I touched a raw nerve about Bonds...sorry. Simply trying to get some info and wanted to share something of myself in the process.

thanks for the info

Oh Boy! Great game against the schmarlins last night, coming up against a 9-2 lead in the second inning to win the game 12-9. Great batting which was apparently stimulated by all the crap reported about SF pitchers making awful comments about A. J. Pierzynski to the press and A.J. making awful comments about the pitchers to Phil Nevin during a game. Good ol' A.J. sure knows how to stir things up! eek!

Thought I'd jumpstart this thread to ask if maybe the title should be changed to "2004 is the Year... they lose 100 games"? A lot of us were skeptical at the beginning of the season, given the off-season (non-)moves, but none of us thought they'd flat-out suck. A major shake-up needs to happen. Last nite, Schmidt pitched a gem -- a one-hitter that would've been news had Randy Johnson not pitched a perfect game the same day. But he didn't exactly get run support from his teammates.

The Giants are losing their gamble that Barry Bonds and a collection of journeymen players will continue to win the NL West. Granted, they are constrained financially by being the only team in MLB that has to pay a mortgage on their stadium and they are also contributing $13M in revenue sharing to the needier teams, but I don't think they've put enough money in their lineup to win.
Over the past 3 years, the Giants have lost Jeff Kent (MVP), Ellis Burks (100 RBI), Rich Aurilia (solid hitter/RBI man), Russ Ortiz (15-20 wins), Benito Santiago (clutch hitter), David Bell (clutch hitter), Robb Nenn (dominating reliever), and Tim Worrell.
They've replaced them with Marquis Grissom (great pickup but 37), Edgardo Alfonso (hasn't hit .300 yet), A.J. Pierzynski (Kent-like in the clubhouse but not on the field), Sydney Ponson (take the money and run), Ray Durham (good when not on the DL), Damian Moss (can he throw a strike?) and a collection of ho-hum players like Jose Cruz, Dustin Mohr, Michael Tucker, Jeffrey Hammond, Deivi Cruz, Neifi Perez... They'd be great bench players, not starters.
Of the players that remained, only Barry and Jason Schmidt have improved. Kirk Rueter looks shaky. J.T. Snow is still cute but he's no longer a major league hitter. The Giants don't have any players to deal that other teams want. The cupboard seems to be bare in the farm system. The only way they could have improved themselves was via free agency but they didn't want to increase their payroll.
The Giants gambled and thus far, it hasn't paid off.

My brother was at the 3 Phils-Giants games last week with my dad. He called me last night and said that for one of the games, they went to the box office and paid to upgrade their tickets and ended up almost behind home plate about 2 or 3 rows back, near the Giants on-deck circle. So naturally he bellowed, "HEY BONDS! YOU SUCK!!" wink He said Bonds turned to look, and someone nearby took a picture of it and is going to e-mail it. Bonds' look was priceless, apparently. Someone in the next row said "he's used to hearing stuff on the road, but not here!" Oh, and in that particular at-bat Bonds....struck out. wink

Well, since the Giants are having a bit of luck down in San Juan, Puerto Rico against the wandering Expos, I thought I would satisfy my curiosity (and maybe some of yours) about just WHO THE HELL IS HIRAM BITHORN?

Cool Link

Great way to name a stadium!

Today it's tied 2-2 in the bottom of the 7th and Jerome Williams is still looking pretty good. But, like the other night with Schmidt's shutout, is Alou overworking his starting pitchers? Makes sense since the bullpen sucks so bad, but still... :confused:

Guess I should take back my previous "will they lose 100 games?" question, what with a 10-game winning streak and all (OK, they've played Montreal, Arizona and Colorado in the past week, but still). Is this an aberration? An incredible run of luck? Or has the ship been righted?

I say their current winning streak is an aberration, Mike, due more to the strength of their opposition (or lack thereof) over the past week or so....with the exception of Bonds (even I am willing to give Barry his due in spite of his pitiful surliness towards fans and teammates alike) the remainder of the Giants lineup is hardly formidable and their pitching staff, while decent, is not stellar enough to carry the team over the course of the entire season....Felipe Alou's managerial expertise notwithstanding I fully expect the Giants to revert back to mediocrity very soon while the Padres and Dodgers battle it out for the NL West crown.

Don't ever count the SF Giants out of the running in the NL West.

Sabean started making his usually well timed and effective moves. He outright released non-productive Jeffrey Hammonds and is bringing up Todd Linden from Fresno (probably temporarily). Once he starts this stuff, it all seems to start coming together.

Jason Schmidt has turned into one of the elite pitchers in MLB and Jerome Williams continues to gain impressive confidence on the mound.

Aberration or not, I'll take a 10 game win streak anyday at this point in the season. The most recent series against AZ turned out pretty bad, but now they move on to Colorado, Tampa Bay and Baltimore.

And JasonSchmidt just turned in a very impressive WIN over Colorado!

#1 in the NL West, as it should be!

However, I have one question. Why the hell does Felipe Alou always insist on putting in Felix Rodriguez as a setup pitcher! He almost assuredly blows the game every f**king time!

All he has is a fastball, that's it, and every team the Giants face knows that. Hello Felipe, IT'S NOT WORKING . eek!

Hallelujah! There is a baseball god! The Giants traded useless Felix Rodriguez to the Phillies for outfielder Ledee. Hosannas from on high, angel trumpets are sounding.

Now we just need to find another relief pitcher before the deadline tomorrow. frown

Well, apparently Sabean wasn't happy with any of the prospects for the bullpen. Word has it that the pickings for a closer are so slim, that the trade demands were totally unreasonable. So, Brian decided he could just wait a bit longer and stock the missing RP under better conditions. At the same time though, the Giants used Kevin Correia, who used to be a SP, in the RP role Friday night and he was quite impressive. The Giants lost the game, but Kevin's appearance was promising. He's a really cute young thing too!

Pains me to say it, and I'd love to be proven wrong, but despite last nite's impressive romp over the Reds (yay Noah!), the only chance the Giants have is if LA and SD simultaneously implode. I was at Sat nite's almost-loss -- 8-run first innings are nice but ya gotta back 'em up with pitching. The lack of a big trade sure seems like the final nail in the coffin to me.

Don't know if you read Betting Fool on sfgate.com but he had a great column yesterday on the subject:

A Fool and his Giants

I'm so confused about the bullpen situation. Brett Tomko came out in relief Saturday night, is that going to be a regular thing? Is he not a starter any more. I know he didn't have the greatest of starts, but he seemed to be righting himself after coming off the DL. Seems like we don't have enough starters, so why take away another one after moving Hermanson to be the closer?

And I'm not very impressed by the rookier Merker, or Mercer, or whoever. Everyone's talking him up like some big phenom but he hasn't shown that he can handle the clutch pitching situations.

But I have to say, yeah to Noah! Thank god we got some good rookies. He's shown some great pitching (and hitting!) in his last two starts.

By the way, I agree with everyone's comments about Ricky Ledee. He was such a ho-hum trade. I bet it was because there wasn't anyone else on the current Giant roster that any of the other teams wanted that's why the best trade we could muster was another mediocre outfielder.

Oh, I guess Brett is still a starter. He's set to start Tuesday's game in Pittsburg.

Alou explains that he used Brett Saturday night in relief because that's his strategy for the bull pen. He's going to save starters from doing their "between-starts" pitching until game time so that they can be called upon if needed.

In the MLB site, the reporter says Brett didn't have a comment over the weekend about whether he felt comfortable doing his side pitching during an actual game as a reliever. When the reporter asked Alou what he thought about the fact that Brett didn't want to comment on that strategy, Alou responded: "I don't care about reactions, I care about responsibilities," Alou said. "It's very simple; this is a team here."

True, he's got a point. But is he starting to sound more cranky? Alou's never had the reputation of stroking his players like Baker. But still, you'd think he'd care more about his players.

Jason Schmidt once again proves that he is the best pitcher in baseball this season. A complete game 7-0 shutout against the Pittsburgh Pirates with 11 K's. An additional 35.5 points in my Outsports Fantasy Baseball League game, after just getting 34.5 points from Pedro Martinez' shutout earlier today.

WOO HOO! eek!

GO GIANTS!!! GO BONDS!!! 692....
I was at the game last night where Bonds hit 690 and 691!!! The race is on to the playoffs...

Ya know what? The Giants recent performance has me thinking they'll just shrug off the wild card and beat LA for the NL West!

How bout that Stinger85?

Glad to see the bullpen has shaped up of late. My big boy Jim Brower is still doing well and it looks like Herges has relaxed into his relief role, a role he's more comfortable in. And Dustin Hermanson is providing some confidence in the 9th inning.

I'm just hoping that J.T. can pick it up again and have that great hitting streak he experienced before his staph infection. Ugh, what's up with that? Staph infection?@! Was he near Rosie?

J.T is always coming down with some weird flu or infection. I think he gets it from his snotty nosed kids or something. That's what you get for being a breeder. wink

I still have no confidence in the bullpen. I just cringe when they pull a starting pitcher and pull in the dregs we have there.

I'm hoping when Sept. 1 comes around, they'll be able to get more relief for the bullpen. But knowing what's out there, I'm guessing the Giants will bring more rookies up. (They've got to get rid of Kevin Correia and his platinum blond hair!)

The current road trip FL/Alt is critical... We are still in the race. Damm, those Dodgers keep pulling out wins. We need pitching and I'm not talking Herges. Please don't let him pitch again. He has no confidence and just blows...

I hope the Giants are able to work out a deal and get Shawn Estes as a starting pitcher. I really really really hope they don't screw it up and just get another outfielder like the Ledee trade. We need help with pitching Brian! Although Shawn hasn't been the greatest, he has been pretty good this season (although I think he lost his latest game). I wonder if he'd be willing to come to San Francisco after San Francisco traded him away a few years back. But I think at this point in the season, people want to jump on the pennant race wagon. So c'mon on board, Shawn!

By the way, balidog, I feel the same about Herges. I know he's a nice guy, but c'mon. Cut the strings early and not let this be another prolong Felix Rodriguez gig. On another note, I'm glad to see they're trying to build up a Brower-Hermanson, setup-closer scenario. I think that's a combo that will work since the days of Worrell-Nenn.