#9 Duke falls to UNC in Chapel Hill!

Puts a cap on a hard fought reg season. Maybe they can do the same in the ACC Tournament.

Of course that is if Chris Collins doesnt try to pick fights with Matt Doherty on the court again.

Great game! UNC earned that win. But I wonder what the reg is on those last second shots. Jones was definetly in the motion of shooting when the red light on the top of the scoreboard went on IMO. Unfortunately the ref obscured the only good camera view.

Maybe the ball has to be in the air.

Whatever. The ref had a perfect view of him, the ball and the scoreboard..if he is the one who called the game over, then that's that.

Tough loss for the devils. But if Maryland wins tonight, Devils get to meet my Terps in the ACC tournament and I'll be rooting against Dahntay and JJ no matter how cute they are.

Maryland lost, to Virginia, again. :mad:

Oh well at least they avoid Duke for the first tournament game. I think they have a better chance against any of the other teams.

Have to admit though my hope is waning. The winning formula in college b-ball seems to be managing to keep a good team together until they are all experienced seniors. Not easy nowadays.

this is correct. pity of the refs if the rule were "in the act of shooting"!

I think they have been ranking Duke all year just because of their name value. They have had too many losses to unranked teams in my opinion to justify the rankings they have received all year. It it were any other school they wouldn't even be ranked. I mean do you see what horrible basketball they play. They truly don't look like the Coach K teams of the past.

Da Kid.

Goes to show how unpredictable college basketball can be. If this was a tournament game, UNC would have been seeded about #14; Duke would have been a #3.

How bad are things in Chapel Hill when the fans storm the court the way they did yesterday? That scene is just really tired. UNC fans wouldn't have done that a few years back when things were good. But still, a great win over their arch rival.

sportinlife,

yeah. like the other dude said, it doesn't matter if the player is in the act of shooting. The ball must leave the players hands before the red light comes on.

so the fight that broke out involving Daugherty....... what happened exactly?

It is interesting that no one has been paying much attention to that aspect of the game. I do not have a full story, but here is what I could see in the replay:

One of UNC's players was down on the floor and Dahntay Jones took a shot near him. Coming down, he almost landed on the player. Doherty was on his way over to check on his player while the ball was dead. At that point, Chris Collins was yapping at one of the UNC players (according to the announcers). Doherty went over to where Collins was and probably told him to shut up (no idea how that was done). Well, Collins responded by shoving Doherty and screaming at him. Doherty immediately put his hands up and backed away. That's when everyone else started shoving people.

Has anyone heard of any repercussions from this incident? It would be interesting to see if Duke took any action.

That last-second shot wasn't even close,as far as buzzer beaters go.Even Coach K was waving it off as being too late and no good. :cool:
There used to be a distinction made between shots and tip-ins, with regards to buzzer beaters.It had something to do with control of the ball,as with a shot and re-direction,as would apply with a tip.I don't remember exactly what th distinction was,and if it still applies.Anyone know what I'm talking about,and what the current rule is? :confused:

I think you may be referring to the minimum time it takes to complete a shot. You'll hear announcers talk a lot about 0.8 seconds. I think that is the accepted minimum time to catch and shoot (don't ask Baron Davis) a basketball. If the time left is any lower than that, then the team is basically forced to throw the ball to the rim and tip it into the basket. That type of action takes a lot less time to complete. In either case, the ball has to be fully released before the light turns on to be good.

Wayne- Thanks for responding.You did an excellent job of explaining how the nano seconds break down, but that wasn't what I was referring to.Actually the particular example I'm thinking of pre-dates the advent of the shot clock (gasp). eek!

In 1976,during IU's perfect season they were playing Michigan at Assembly Hall.They were down 1 pt. and it was clearly the last possesion of the game.With about 3 sec to go there was a missed shot. Benson rebounded and sort of thru the ball with one motion, and the ball was in the air as the buzzer sounded.Obviously the shot was good,however, the controversy was over whether it was a shot or a tip. I wish I could remember the issue more clearly,but at the time there was a distinction made between shots and tips.For it to be a shot,you had to demonstrate control.If you simply re-directed an errant shot,then that was a tip. Tips were legal,but for some reason a tip at the buzzer wasn't-it had to be a shot.I think it had something to do with dunks not being legal- like I said,I wish I could remember.Luckily the refs ruled it a shot,the Hoosiers won and went on to become the LAST UNDEFEATED CHAMPION college basketball will ever crown. Of course Johnny Orr and his boys weren't too happy,but they got their shot at revenge in the title game.Course they lost by over 20 pts :cool:

Do any of you warhorses that were around back then recall the rule I'm thinking of?

Actually you all correct on those nanoseconds. Though it was clear that Jones did not have the ball leave his hand til a good 1/2 second after the clock hit 0. The only time you get "the shot was in motion" call is on a foul.
Though Im sure it sucks for Jones to have actually made that and have time run out. Then again hes no Jeff Capel anyway.

As far as the altercation, Collins had every right to be told to shut up if thats what happened. What it looked like was that while Doherty was checking on Raymond Felton who had just been swiped in the eye by Jones, is when Collins came over to interject something and then got into Doherty's face. Doherty actually came close to getting into a fight with Jones in the 1st game this year at Duke, when Jones disrespected him near the UNC bench. So this time around was probably just Collins trying to protect his player in case Doherty tried something. However, Chris Collins needs to know his role, and sit on the bench where he belongs next to Coach Wojo.
The way its become is there is more of a rivalry between the coaching staffs than with the actual players, being that the current coaches are former players for both teams (Doherty in the 80s UNC Jordan era, and Collins and Wojo in the 90s Duke era).
And as far as UNC fans rushing the floor, they always rush the floor when they beat Duke, regardless of their record. And this win was especially sweet being only the 2nd win out of the last 12 games against Duke I believe.
Im just glad I went to school in the Vince Carter days. At least I had a team to be a bit more proud of.

I'm still not so sure about that last shot. The article in SI says that the refs made a definitive decision that the shot was no good by reviewing the televised replay. The only angle I remember being shown during the game had a referee blocking the view of Jones as he shot as I recall.

I didn't watch the follow-up or see any of the replays after the game ended. Was there another angle shown later?

Sport-To me it was obviously not good,and I was rooting for Dook. Every replay I saw showed the re light on and Jones still with the ball in his hands-it wasn't even as close as the shot at the end of the first half.I thought it a formality for the refs to check the replay- as I mentioned in an earlier post the tv commentators said that Coach K. himself was sigalling that the shot was no good. At any rate,the decision seemed almost instantaneous,like the refs watched one replay and could tell right away the game was over.

Ok I'll drop this one and just slurk off to my corner and masturbate over my Dahntay Jones photo collection.

[ March 13, 2003, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: sportinlife ]

See at least when I was a Duke fan before I was accepted to go to UNC, I masturbated over Christian Laettner wink God man, have some taste! Heh.

Personally I think Doherty just has the hots for Jones, which shows pretty good taste IMO.

Well now they've beat Maryland too. Soundly. These guys seem to be streaking right at the right time.

I have to admit though that I think they simply exposed how week Maryland is this year as compared to last. I always thought their national ranking was a bit of spillover from last year and some ACC boost.