I am sick of this team not hitting. They have an occasional big game (like last night, with 5 homers) and then follow it up with crap (like tonight, yet ANOTHER shutout) for days and days. They continue to waste the pitching they're getting. They've lost 6 of 9 overall, including 4 of 6 to the Mets. They need a new hitting coach--Greg Gross has got to go.
And I wouldn't be unhappy if Bowa lost his temper and reamed out the clubhouse. He's been preaching this "the veterans know what to do, they're leaders" stuff all year and it ain't working.
Full Version: Phillies are annoying as hell
I agree that Bowa has been rather complacent this year. I prefer the fiery Bowa over the kinder gentler manager we are seeing. Someone needs to rattle the ballclub and perhaps another batting coach might help.
The talent of the hitters is better than what has been shown so far, I hope we can see the hitting come around soon before the team falls too far behind.
The talent of the hitters is better than what has been shown so far, I hope we can see the hitting come around soon before the team falls too far behind.
Three-game sweep of the Expos = revenge for last Saturday night! HA!! 
Oh, but the image of you sitting, arms crossed, pouting after the walk off HR was well worth it!!! wink
I know it isn't popular in Philly to say ANYTHING bad about Bowa - but I am not a fan. I think his intensity is very detrimental to the team. I understand that a manager has to light a fire but constant intensity just wears down a team. There is no excuse for the Phils to be playing so inconsistent (and batting poorly) given the current make up of the team. The manager has to step up and take some responsibility and take some constructive action not just throwing a hissy s**t fit.
But there's the problem. He hasn't thrown any fits all season. He's hardly shown intensity at all. He's treated them like they're the defending champs.
JoeinPhilly -- I hear what you are saying and I think you have a valid point. I guess my issue is that I just don't see the guy as having the maturity or stature to lead a team to the Pennant. On the flip side, I do know that not everything is black and white and maybe I need to give the guy a chance -- what the hell, he certainly was a "winner" as a player and he has learned a great deal since his job with the Padres. And let's look at the bright side - we are coming off a sweep and the Phils are at least a few games over .500.
JoeinPhilly -- I hear what you are saying and I think you have a valid point. I guess my issue is that I just don't see the guy as having the maturity or stature to lead a team to the Pennant. On the flip side, I do know that not everything is black and white and maybe I need to give the guy a chance -- what the hell, he certainly was a "winner" as a player and he has learned a great deal since his job with the Padres. And let's look at the bright side - we are coming off a sweep and the Phils are at least a few games over .500.
As a Yankee fan, I know I may be intruding on this thread. But, I am going to be in Montreal for about 5 days in early July. The only Expos home game while I am there is (gasp!) the Phillies. I try to never miss a chance to see a baseball game even if my Yanks aren't playing. Hell, I used to live in Houston and go to Astros games all the time. So, is it worth my time to go? I am an American League guy, and I need to look like an expert next month! :cool:
My vote would be to go. If I'm in a major league city and they have a game going on, I'd want to be there no matter who's playing. And since I've got that week off from work, I was actually pondering going back to Montreal to see the Phils-Expos again. Right now I'm leaning against going, though.
Hi, Cattledog - I actually saw an Expos - Phillies game in Montreal with about a dozen fellow Outsporters last week. Like you, I am a big Yankee fan, so I was a bit hesitant, what with it being the NL, a domed stadium, etc. But I had a blast, and really came away with an appreciation for the extra dimension that a team in Quebec lends to MLB. Plus, there was a big crowd thanks to dollar hot dog night, which really added to the communal excitement of the event.
Well, the Phillies have really let out a stinker by being swept by the Mariners. No offense is the Phils biggest crime this year. Tonight they generated enough to win with their 4 runs, but the unrealiable Mesa gave up a 3 bagger in the ninth. If the Phils are to close out games this year they need someone who can slam the door shut, not the reincarnation of Mitch Williams(Wild thing).
I was at the game tonight. As a result, I want the following people executed immediately:
1) Jose Mesa
2) the moron fan who interfered with the fair ball to right field in the 9th inning, causing a ground-rule double and preventing the tying run from scoring
3) Jose Mesa
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
1) Jose Mesa
2) the moron fan who interfered with the fair ball to right field in the 9th inning, causing a ground-rule double and preventing the tying run from scoring
3) Jose Mesa
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Dont worry the M's sweep everyone, I think Fan Interference could have possibly decided the outcome in this one. BWUHAHAHAHA
Nice effort though!
Nice effort though!
Oh come on, aren't the Phillies actually doing pretty well this year? They're not that bad. At least they don't have three pitchers who don't know an out (let alone a shut-out) even if it bit them on the ass (Tomko-Stephenson-Simontacchi) or an obese, extremly loudmouthed meddling millionaire former felon who simply cannot help but interfere with his team (Fatsobrenner). The Cards and the Yankees are struggling far worse than the Phillies. So please, JoeinPhilly, a little more perspective.
come on guys, don't be so bitter. You do have Kevin Milwood, Scott Rolen, and Jim "Anaconda" Thome. That should ease the pain a little.
QUOTE
fantomas:
The Cards and the Yankees are struggling far worse than the Phillies.
Relative to expectations? The Yankees are in first, the Cards are a game out. Philly is 3-1/2 behind Montreal for the wild card!The Cards and the Yankees are struggling far worse than the Phillies.
You gotta laugh ... As a fervent enemy of public self-absorption that plagues 21st-century America, it was a joy to see the interfering jerk escorted out, and Thome whiffing to end the game.
[ June 06, 2003, 07:01 AM: Message edited by: Bill W ]
QUOTE
fantomas:
The Cards and the Yankees are struggling far worse than the Phillies. So please, JoeinPhilly, a little more perspective.
The Cards and Yankees are right where people expected them to be - in first or right on the edge of first. The Phillies, after their high-profile acquisitions, were expected to be in the same place, but instead are nine out of first and about fourth for the wild card. So JIP's perspective seems right on the mark to me.
The Cards and the Yankees are struggling far worse than the Phillies. So please, JoeinPhilly, a little more perspective.
Jose Mesa is horrific -- what do you think the Phils can do now to rectify the situation -- any alternatives?
QUOTE
wade n atlanta:
come on guys, don't be so bitter. You do have Kevin Milwood, Scott Rolen, and Jim \"Anaconda\" Thome. That should ease the pain a little.
Uh, whats wrong with this statement? come on guys, don't be so bitter. You do have Kevin Milwood, Scott Rolen, and Jim \"Anaconda\" Thome. That should ease the pain a little.
BOOOOOOOOOO
One good thing about living in AZ, looking at the box score of the "table" blowing a game, is much easier than seing it live...
QUOTE
Bill W:
Philly is 3-1/2 behind Montreal for the wild card!
You gotta laugh ... As a fervent enemy of public self-absorption that plagues 21st-century America, it was a joy to see the interfering jerk escorted out, and Thome whiffing to end the game.
From today's Phila. Daily News:Philly is 3-1/2 behind Montreal for the wild card!
You gotta laugh ... As a fervent enemy of public self-absorption that plagues 21st-century America, it was a joy to see the interfering jerk escorted out, and Thome whiffing to end the game.
QUOTE
OVERHEARD OUTSIDE the Veterans Stadium security office:
\"Is that the [idiot] who touched the ball?
\"Yeah. That's the [idiot].\"
And that, for now, is how the fan who touched Jason Michaels' ninth-inning hit that would have tied last night's game against Seattle will be known. Maybe it's better that way.
After all, the scruffy guy who security guards said had been drinking got plenty of punishment as he was ejected from his seat. A couple of warm, flat beers flew his way. A few patrons rose and went to the aisle to deride him as he passed, while the Phanavision replayed his act of idiocy, right next to the scoreboard that read 5-4, Seattle, the final, the three-game sweep, the Mariners' ninth win in a row.
After the cops and security let him go, he took off his gray sweatshirt to complicate identification. He put his wallet in his front pocket - just in case. Police escorted him to Pattison Avenue, then left him to cross the street to find his car at the First Union Spectrum lot by himself.
And that's where he began his defense: \"I didn't know. I thought it was a foul ball. The guy next to me was fighting for it. I'm a Phillies fan. I know better.\"
And the dog ate his homework.
Asked his name and residence, he first refused, then lied. The Phillies refused to identify him, too.
Maybe it's better that way. Safer. After all, 25 Phillies, a half-dozen coaches, a front-office full of frustrated executives and most of the 21,145 in attendance last night would love to find this guy. Just for a minute. In a dark alley in South Philly. With Larry Bowa by their side. Right?
\"I'm not going to blame the loss on that guy,\" Bowa said.
Dammit, Larry, get angry!\"Is that the [idiot] who touched the ball?
\"Yeah. That's the [idiot].\"
And that, for now, is how the fan who touched Jason Michaels' ninth-inning hit that would have tied last night's game against Seattle will be known. Maybe it's better that way.
After all, the scruffy guy who security guards said had been drinking got plenty of punishment as he was ejected from his seat. A couple of warm, flat beers flew his way. A few patrons rose and went to the aisle to deride him as he passed, while the Phanavision replayed his act of idiocy, right next to the scoreboard that read 5-4, Seattle, the final, the three-game sweep, the Mariners' ninth win in a row.
After the cops and security let him go, he took off his gray sweatshirt to complicate identification. He put his wallet in his front pocket - just in case. Police escorted him to Pattison Avenue, then left him to cross the street to find his car at the First Union Spectrum lot by himself.
And that's where he began his defense: \"I didn't know. I thought it was a foul ball. The guy next to me was fighting for it. I'm a Phillies fan. I know better.\"
And the dog ate his homework.
Asked his name and residence, he first refused, then lied. The Phillies refused to identify him, too.
Maybe it's better that way. Safer. After all, 25 Phillies, a half-dozen coaches, a front-office full of frustrated executives and most of the 21,145 in attendance last night would love to find this guy. Just for a minute. In a dark alley in South Philly. With Larry Bowa by their side. Right?
\"I'm not going to blame the loss on that guy,\" Bowa said.
They're 2 and a half behind Montreal, actually. But many prognosticator's expectation at the beginning of the year is that the wild card would come from the stronger Central or West divisions, and that to make the playoffs the Phils would have to finish first in the East. That remains to be seen, but if their hitters don't wake up and if they continue to rely on Mesa, it won't matter much. They don't have any alternative to Mesa in their current bullpen. Cormier and Wendell are the only ones really pitching well. Cormier's been phenomenal! I don't think either can become the closer but at this point I'd be willing to try.
And Thome didn't end the game. He was the second out of the inning. Bobby Abreu flied out to shallow center to end the game. But it was tough to see Thome strike out--that would've been the perfect moment for him to come through, after Rollins actually got a walk to load the bases. For once the crowd was making noise without the scoreboard telling them to. wink After that I think everyone almost expected Abreu to fail.
Pat Burrell started to hear a lot of boos after his last couple of at-bats when he struck out yet again, but nothing compared to what Mesa got (and at that point I gladly joined in for a change).
On the other hand, the Iron Chef Morimoto danced with the Phillie Phanatic on the dugout to "YMCA" so hey, my life's complete!
QUOTE
Joe in Philly:
Pat Burrell started to hear a lot of boos after his last couple of at-bats when he struck out yet again
Perhaps PB was spending too much time in the offseason with Travis "in not alive" Lee...Pat Burrell started to hear a lot of boos after his last couple of at-bats when he struck out yet again
Not to worry tho... Iggle camp opens in.... what... 7 weeks?
MORE CORKED BATS, MORE CORKED BATS, MORE CORKED BATS...whoops, guess that's illegal. 
And so far they're looking dismal against the A's, down 5-0 in the 5th...and tomorrow, which is supposed to be Photo Day, the forecast calls for heavy rain and thunderstorms. I'm almost sure they'll never get on the field for photos tomorrow, but I'll have to get up early and get down there just in case they DO. Ugh.
QUOTE
wade n atlanta:
come on guys, don't be so bitter. You do have Kevin Milwood, Scott Rolen, and Jim \"Anaconda\" Thome. That should ease the pain a little.
What are you talking about. Scott Rolen is a SAINT LOUIS CARDINAL!!! Where have you been? No, he's not my babydaddy (that's Pujols), but he has contributed mightily to the Redbirds since he arrived. Milwood and Pieface are on the Phillies, but not Rolen. He's rollin' up in the Lou!
come on guys, don't be so bitter. You do have Kevin Milwood, Scott Rolen, and Jim \"Anaconda\" Thome. That should ease the pain a little.
[quote]Munson Man:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by fantomas:
The Cards and the Yankees are struggling far worse than the Phillies. So please, JoeinPhilly, a little more perspective. [/quote]The Cards and Yankees are right where people expected them to be - in first or right on the edge of first. The Phillies, after their high-profile acquisitions, were expected to be in the same place, but instead are nine out of first and about fourth for the wild card. So JIP's perspective seems right on the mark to me. [/QUOTE
Well, it is, I admit it, since the Red Sucks have begun one of their periodic swoons (where is Pedro?) and the Cards have won 5 straight while the Cubbies have shot themselves in the foot, even though they have the best pitching rotation in the Central (Houston's used to be the best), so the Yankees and Cardinals aren't doing so badly, and Philly has slipped. Come on Philadelphia, get the ATL out of first place!
[QUOTE]Originally posted by fantomas:
The Cards and the Yankees are struggling far worse than the Phillies. So please, JoeinPhilly, a little more perspective. [/quote]The Cards and Yankees are right where people expected them to be - in first or right on the edge of first. The Phillies, after their high-profile acquisitions, were expected to be in the same place, but instead are nine out of first and about fourth for the wild card. So JIP's perspective seems right on the mark to me. [/QUOTE
Well, it is, I admit it, since the Red Sucks have begun one of their periodic swoons (where is Pedro?) and the Cards have won 5 straight while the Cubbies have shot themselves in the foot, even though they have the best pitching rotation in the Central (Houston's used to be the best), so the Yankees and Cardinals aren't doing so badly, and Philly has slipped. Come on Philadelphia, get the ATL out of first place!
QUOTE
Joe in Philly:
...and tomorrow, which is supposed to be Photo Day, the forecast calls for heavy rain and thunderstorms. I'm almost sure they'll never get on the field for photos tomorrow, but I'll have to get up early and get down there just in case they DO. Ugh.
Needless to say, when I left the house they still hadn't called the game but by the time I got to the stadium they did call it off. There's no word on whether the Photo Day promotion will be rescheduled for another game. Just another reason for me to be depressed...sigh... ...and tomorrow, which is supposed to be Photo Day, the forecast calls for heavy rain and thunderstorms. I'm almost sure they'll never get on the field for photos tomorrow, but I'll have to get up early and get down there just in case they DO. Ugh.
UPDATE: Photo Day has been rescheduled for Saturday night, August 16--against Scott Rolen and the Cardinals. I already have tickets for that game. Woo-hoo!
[ June 07, 2003, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]
My bad, dog. Didn't realize that Philly had gotten rid of the future of their program. I guess things are pretty bad there. So what if Thome strikes out so much, he has such a long...history. And besides, Millwood plays in a game every 5 days, isn't that good enough? He can at least put your team in a position to win once or twice a week.
Gee Wade, thanks for those comforting words they really make us feel better.
QUOTE
wade n atlanta:
My bad, dog. Didn't realize that Philly had gotten rid of the future of their program.
Who would that be? Not Rolen. Oh no. He was in no way the future of the program once he decided (about 15 minutes after he arrived, no doubt) that he wasn't cut out for the big city.My bad, dog. Didn't realize that Philly had gotten rid of the future of their program.
7-1 and 8-3 doubleheader sweep of the A's today. All kinds of balanced offense--not just one big inning but lots of small innings as well. Burrell had 2 hits including a HR in game one. Marlon Byrd is coming on strong now, finally. Maybe this will be the start...
Bad news for the Phillies: they just signed John Valentin. Valentin was a chronic cranky malcontent up in Boston, who seemed to specialize in scapegoating others for his own deficiencies as a player. Really the worst sort of "me first team last" player.
The Phillies see this differently, all happy about getting a "veteran right handed bat" to come off the bench. They signed him to a minor league contract, but he is expected to be with the big club. Look for Valentin's first complaints about being mishandled to follow within 48 hours.
The Phillies see this differently, all happy about getting a "veteran right handed bat" to come off the bench. They signed him to a minor league contract, but he is expected to be with the big club. Look for Valentin's first complaints about being mishandled to follow within 48 hours.
I heard a rumor that the Phillies were looking to trade for Jaun Acevedo of the Yankees so they could sure up their bull pen.
Bite your tongue, wade.
QUOTE
Joe in Philly:
Maybe this will be the start...
...or not. A win over the Angels followed by 3 straight losses, including tonight's 15-1 debacle against the Reds. :mad: Maybe this will be the start...
The only highlight was the bench-clearing brawl and Mike Lieberthal's tackle of Adam Dunn from behind as Dunn charged the mound. The Bengals will be scouting at the Great American Ballpark the rest of the weekend. wink John Valentin changed his mind, by the way, and the Phils let him out of his minor-league contract. He apparently thinks there's another situation that will get him back to the majors quickly.
A two-game sweep at the hands of the lowly Mets seems like the appropriate time to resume this thread. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. No wonder the Braves are so far ahead...
At least it's not for lack of scoring, 11 runs in two games. Now it's the pitching that has gone south. It should be a brief abberation I hope.
I was there and got some sunburn on my arms and face (and probably my neck). That game was so long. 4:01 for a nine-inning game. Each team used SIX pitchers. Millwood was just awful. Still, the Phils rallied to make it close.
QUOTE
Joe in Philly:
Still, the Phils rallied to make it close.
Boy, if "rallying" against a washed-up Benitez impressionist (sans velocity) like John (I'm a Noo Yawker Roster Spot) Franco gives you comfort, you *have* conceded the division. Still, the Phils rallied to make it close.
I was referring to the entire rally (from 6-0), not just the 9th inning.
I forgot to tell you Phillies fans that I was right behind their dugout when I saw them play in Montreal on July 7. I've got some major close-up photos of Thome, amongst some of the other players. I even have the bench clearing altercation (no punches thrown!) between the Expos and Phillies in that game when the Phillies pitcher hit Livan Hernandez with the ball. It pays to go with a buddy whom has a zoom lens. If anybody wants any of these picture, I am more than happy to send them off. Incidentally, Philadelphia got hammered 8-1 in that game.
Now that we're closing in on the 2/3 mark of the season, its really beginning to look like the Phils have a solid shot at the wild card. They certainly have no competition from the Central. And LA and Arizona are both in retrograde of late.
The Phils really only need focus on one thing - beating Montreal and Florida as often as possible. Of the two, I'd worry most about Florida.
If the season ended today, we'd have Philly @ SF and Houston @ Atlanta.
The Phils really only need focus on one thing - beating Montreal and Florida as often as possible. Of the two, I'd worry most about Florida.
If the season ended today, we'd have Philly @ SF and Houston @ Atlanta.
The Phils need to worry about Florida because they can't beat them right now. The Marlins have won their last 7 against the Phils. And Arizona is only 2 games back in the wild-card race. They're not out of it by any means.
I'd have to agree with the title of this thread, the Phillies are annoying as hell. Hopefully the Marlins will make 8 straight agianst the Phils by sweeping the series Sunday afternoon (Unfortunately the pitching match-up isnt as promising as it was in the first 2 games; Millwood v Pavano). Then the Marlins play Arizona for three games in Miami. All interested in the NL Wild Card race should pay attention to that series.
[ July 26, 2003, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: marlins97twins91 ]
[ July 26, 2003, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: marlins97twins91 ]
oh come on! stop it. i have pals on the Phills. so they suck. root for the ROX!!
GET YOUR BROOMS OUT! MARLINS SWEEP THE PHILLIES!! AGAIN!!
Yes, but now the Marlins have to beat other teams for awhile.
The thing that annoys me most is the aquisition of Mike Williams who was 1 -3 6.27 era before the trade. What has he done since his arrival? He has appeared in 5 games for a total of 5 innings and has given up runs in 3 of the games (6 runs in all). He is 0-2 with the Phillies. If Bowa wanted those results he could have just thrown Mesa out there. Jose could not have been any worse.
QUOTE
Joe in Philly:
Yes, but now the Marlins have to beat other teams for awhile.
Well, right now, we're hot and you're not, and neither is Arizona, who've lost 7 of their last 10 and are up next for the Marlins. And Cincinnati, who is next on the Phils schedule (OK, only for 1 game.), has won two in a row. Not to mention that the Marlins have the best intra-division record in the East, even better than the Braves, and in September, everyone plays alot of games intra-division.
Yes, but now the Marlins have to beat other teams for awhile.
I need a pic of the "anaconda"!
Well, for one, grab a copy of Phila. Gay News real quick, before Friday when the new issue is out--the current front page features him sliding into home plate!
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.