Who saw that electric moment in the Astros-Giants game? Jimy Williams not only leaves a tiring Roy Oswalt in the 8th to face You Know Who as tying run at the plate... as any fan with a brain knows, the strategy even in that situation is walk him ... but inevitably, Barry smacked the first pitch for his 659th HR, putting him one behind godfather Willie Mays and setting up a SF win.

This man is the baseball legend of our era. What a shame he's the subject of a venomous witch hunt by people with dubious motives.

I'm not sure Jimy Williams qualifies as a "legend of our era," but, yes, I do agree that he's been unfairly maligned.

Barry steps up to the plate... wink

I certainly was glad to see Williams as the subject for second-guessing on Baseball Tonight. The Astros shouldn't have lost that game.

Don't be silly. Barry wears more armor than that.

.514/.673/1.378

For the racist hatas.

Thanks, Bill W, for jump-starting this thread. As of last night, Bonds has homered in 7 consecutive games -- the record is 8.

But the best thing about his incredible week is that it made ESPN's Joe Morgan look like an idiot (not hard, but still). Last week on Sunday Night Baseball (4/11/04), Morgan, who had spoken to Bonds earlier in the day, told a nationwide audience that the death of his father and the BALCO stuff were weighing so heavily on Barry that it would affect his performance all year, and he pronounced Bonds "a beaten man". And of course, his "proof" was that Barry hadn't homered at Petco Park! (Never mind that almost nobdy else is homering there either.) What a moron.

Barry is the man. He is knocking the ball yard nearly everytime he gets to the plate. But why is he hitting so many this year and no one else is even coming close? Whats he got that others don't? I love Watching Barry swing the Bat effortless and smooth. and he knows every single time its going out. You see the highlights last nite when he went yard and the fan dived into the water from the boardwalk to get the ball. LOL

Actually, across the bay, the A's Jermaine Dye looks like he might give Barry some competition this year.

Bill, will I be allowed to not like Barry without being labeled a racist if I agree he's a great ballplayer?

[turning on Sarcasmatron]

You got me Bill. I can barely type, what with the folds in my white robe making hitting the keys accurately a real chore, and damn those small eye holes in the pointy hood anyway!

[turning off Sarcasmatron]

You know, it's entirely possible for the human mind to hold opposing thoughts. I can acknowledge that Bonds is a great hitter, but still think he's a mediocre fielder. I can think he's a boon to his team, while still loathing him for--on more than one occasion that I've witnessed--being more interested in posing at the plate so that he'll look good on SportsCenter after hitting a long fly ball.....only to have the ball get caught in the wind and plunk the bottom of the fence, Bonds barely making second base in the process. I can think that Bonds is a fine, fine player, a cinch for a first ballot Hall nod, while finding his public persona repugnant and all that is wrong with the modern athlete in the era of intense media scrutiny that players before ca. Ball Four escaped.

The Bonds haters = racist meme is lame and either you believe it or your sarcasm is so subtle that I missed it.

[ April 22, 2004, 08:50 AM: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]

Since when is some one Racist because they criticize a player. We are all allowed to have our favorite players and criticize all others. LOL its what makes us a fan. And i agree. Bonds is a mediocre player. You don't see any highlights of Bonds running down a ball in the gap or making a diving catch to end an inning. Don't get me wrong he is a great player and defenititly wll be getting hall of fame status i am sure. But he seems to be a quentesincial(sp) power player. He isnt in the game for his feilding abilities, he is in the game for his bat and the fear he brings when he gets to the plate. To consider someone a racist because they criticize a players feilding abilities or dont like the way he acts in public or whatever is in my opinion is very lame.

Whooops menat mediiocre fielder not mediocre player.

He must be the only mediocre fielder ever to win 8 gold gloves, then.

Even though I have NEVER been a fan of Bonds (as most longtime Outsporters are well aware of by now) when someone is hitting .500 (19 hits in 38 official at bats) nearly three weeks into the season he deserves at least a few kudos -- no matter how much of a jerk he may be ....when you factor in Barry's 20 walks and 9 HR's that works out to an unbelievable .672 on base pct and 1.342 slugging pct! eek!

The season is obviously still very young but IF Bonds is somehow able to surpass the .400 mark come October then I believe that will be a much more noteworthy accomplishment than any of his HR records -- which, IF and when the steroid allegations are proven, deserve to be noted with an asterisk in the MLB record book.

FYI, Bonds is not in the starting lineup this afternoon against the Padres but considering the Giants were crushed by the highly underrated San Diego lineup 11-0 last night and are already trailing 6-2 today I'm not sure even Bonds' presence would be enough to overcome San Francisco's pitching woes (which I believe will prove to be their downfall this year)....not that I'm complaining, though, since I happen to have Padre hitters Nevin (.333), Loretta (.328), Burroughs (.365) and Greene (.300) on at least one of my fantasy teams this season.

Not all Bonds haters are racist; I'd never claim such a thing... I was speaking of just a few here I'd bet the ranch on -- not you, Jim "Angel" Allen. I'd just like to see an acknowledgement of greatness despite the feelings; I loathe that Bushite coward Clemens but he's the best pitcher of the last 20 years...

ESPN had a graphics chart, of games through Tuesday, showing that BB had hit 9 homers this year and swung and missed SEVEN times. Astounding. (Yet some want to know if he's got as many singles as Juan Pierre. He probably sees fewer than 200 hittable pitches a year.)

As far as the "styling" thing goes, do you feel the same way about Rickey Henderson? So he costs you a base now and then with such displays ... take it. I heard a Mets radio broadcaster pontificate a couple years ago that writers should consider leaving Rickey off the Hall ballot his first year as a "statement" against his alleged "jaking" and mercurial behavior. The all-time scoring leader! I'm just incredulous when such talent is negated by a handful of incidents, and a mediocre 27-year-old AAA player is lionized for playing "with a lot of heart."

[ April 23, 2004, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: Bill W ]

I think you're giving N.L. pitchers FAR too much credit for accuracy and being able to consistently locate a pitch PRECISELY where they (and the catcher) want it to be, Bill....watch closely and look at where the catcher places his mitt as opposed to where the pitches from most "major league quality" hurlers ultimately end up and I'll bet you'll be amazed at the disparity....taking nothing away from the handful of truly elite pitchers that deserve all the accolades they receive from the media more often than not it's either sheer velocity or the fault of inexperienced hitters with limited bat speed that enable so many pitchers to stay in the majors today and not have ERA's that balloon into double digits.

Bill, I'm not sure who you were specifically referring to with your "subtle" claims of racism directed towards anyone who dares to utter an anti-Bonds epithet but that is absolutely absurd!....speaking for myself and the many friends and family members who are baseball fans our lack of respect for Bonds (his statistical accomplishments, notwithstanding) has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with his race -- rather, the reason why I and many others have despised Barry for so long is SOLELY due to the arrogant, selfish, irritable behavior that he has demonstrated throughout virtually his entire career....I respect players who give 100% effort on the field at ALL times (and yes, Mr. Bonds, that includes running out EVERY ground ball and not lazily jogging after fly balls and line drives that are out of your reach) and, just as importantly, who personify class, dignity and respect for the game along with the millions of loyal fans whose support and hard-earned dollars has enabled Bonds to achieve the enormous wealth and luxurious lifestyle that he now enjoys -- and apparently takes for granted ....would it kill him to show even a SMALL IOTA of appreciation for these fans by signing an autograph or two and not demanding that the MLBPA establish a separate pay structure for him ONLY related to the sale of BB's memorabilia and use of his name, unlike every other hard working player in the majors?

As I have previously stated, Barry's statistical feats (especially what he is potentially on pace to accomplish this year, albeit only three weeks into the season) are truly extraordinary and deserve our sincere admiration....HOWEVER, in my view, this still does not lessen the character (or lack thereof) and bad attitude of the player whatsoever....and there is absolutely NO reason to bring the "race card" into the equation when it clearly does not apply.

[ April 23, 2004, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: gamecock ]

If you can't see that Bonds is being pitched differently than every other slugger of his generation, I don't know what to tell you. Mediocre or bad pitchers miss in the zone regularly with other batters-- to BB, they're way off the plate or in the dirt regularly.

Of course they are pitching Barry Differently. If you can't see that you need to watch a little closer. Thier trying to keep the ball away from Barry's hitting Zone. He is a Phenominal hitter. And Any manager would be stupid to not pitch him differently. Every time Barry comes to the plate there is a greater potential for him to hit a home run than a normal batter. The same can be said for all of the great hitters in the game today. They are going to pitch Barry Differently just as they are going to Pitch Ichiro differently.

There's no comparison ... to anybody. Bonds between 2000 and 2003, as Allan Barra points out in his new book I just got, was the greatest player ever for a 4-year period. Including Ruth.

And he's STILL not worthy to carry Willie Mays' jock.

What a bizzare attitude from one who ascribes to the "giving up an out by bunting is stupid" mindset.

I will make no bones about it: I *DETEST* that sort of shit. Period. I saw it happen yesterday in one of the NBA games: a guy does a dunk and does that pathetic "Let me look for the camera behind the basket, OK, found it, now pose and scream" bullshit. What happens? While he's posing and looking like a total dickhead, the other team quickly passed the ball in bounds and Mr. Pose For SportsCenter's guy ran the lane and scored an easy layup. The guy was still posing while the ball was at half-court. That guy should have been benched right then and there.

JC's "he won 8 Gold Gloves" claim means nothing, in my book. The Gold Glove is the lamest of all the awards, often awarded out of laziness than anything. "Oh, Ozzie Smith played this year, OK, give it to him".

[ April 26, 2004, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]

And that's because...? Willie seems to think he is.

Mays was the better player of the two at 25. Willie had his last great year at age 34, after which BB has had his best years. When you compare the offensive output, Barry's decline on defense -- since he's still not bad -- becomes irrelevant.

I don't like it when the celebratory stuff results in a lost base either, Jim, and would prefer it didn't happen. But when measured against the total contribution of a prime Rickey Henderson, it's miniscule compared to a Gabe Kapler forgetting the number of outs.

[ April 27, 2004, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: Bill W ]

Yet you expect us to take your opinion that he's a poor fielder seriously without the smallest shred of evidence? Face it, you think he's a mediocre outfielder because you hate him. I could have cited his defensive statistics, which are still decent and used to be exceptional. I'll agree with you that the Gold Gloves tend to get awarded out of habit, BUT they don't get into the habit of awarding gold gloves unless the player gets an established reputation for superior defensive play. Usually a player will get a few toward the end of their career they didn't deserve. But still, look over the list of players who've won large numbers of gold gloves and they are--without exception in my opinion--very good fielders.

Or not. I don't "hate" Bonds in the way you mean. I detest his surly, unfriendly public personae but so what? I simply think he's an overrated player in an era of diluted, expansion-led mediocrity, though it has been fun to watch Bill jizz all over his computer in this thread. I just have a problem with a guy who jogs after fly balls and then bends down to pick them up when they plop in 5 feet in front of him (seen repeatedly; Garret Anderson must have taken lessons from him). He may have been a good-to-great outfielder 10 years ago--the throw from left field that almost nailed Sid Bream at the plate sticks in the mind--but today, he's average, if that.

My whole point is simple: those of who don't think Bonds is the Greatest Thing Ever In The History Of Baseball, Like, EVER, aren't racists or haters, we just don't feel like joining The Cult of Barry, which I sense is a counter-reaction to all the bad publicity he's gotten for being such a dickhead with the media. I'd still take Alex Rodriguez over Bonds any day.

[ April 27, 2004, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]

I agree with you 100%. I think he's overrated, and I still can't help but think many of his dingers are steroids assisted, but that's just me.