I'm always amazed by the level of hatred shown toward Barry Bonds. For example, in John Wertheim's column today, while saying how tennis players are such upstanding citizens, he notes "The NBA's most marketable player is currently facing rape charges. The NFL is filled with gun-toting thugs. Baseball has Barry Bonds."

Another recent mailbag I saw noted that professional sports have always had their bad apples...in the deadball era we had Ty Cobb, now we have Barry Bonds.

How in the world does Bonds keep getting compared with these guys? So he's surly and arrogant. Ty Cobb wouldn't have stayed out of jail long enough to have a career these days; he was worse than Tyson.

He shouldn't be compared with anyone who's had legal troubles. But his attitude has caused a great many people to dislike him, and that's a shame.

I'm not president of the Barry Bonds Fan Club, by any means, but to lump him together with "gun toting thugs," or, worse, the Portland Jail Blazers, is just plain stupid. It's more a reflection of poor judgment and idiocy of the sportswriter than it is on Barry.

I also think the observation is a bit behind the times.

Barry can be a bit bitchy, but he's not a criminal. He's lacking in bedside manner, but he's not mean-spirited. He obviously cares about the team winning. And I think his icy personality defrosted quite a bit during the World Series, when he occasionally was even charming and friendly.

And ... what an extraordinarily stupid and insenstive thing to say when Barry was taking a few days off to be with his father, Bobby Bonds, who's likely terminally ill with lung cancer. That's not something a thug would do.

So many sportswriters simply traffic in cliches rather than going to all the effort of thinking for themselves. Bitchy Barry is just another of those lazy, mindless cliches.

[ August 18, 2003, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: Charlie in the Trees ]

Ugh.

Count me as one of the many who can't stand Bonds. I think the thing that clinched it for me was this year when he talked about what he'd want to happen if he passed Babe Ruth on the all time home run list. He said something about wanting the media to stop talking about Ruth then.

Made me wish I were a pitcher and I could send a 98 mph fastball right at his head.

He ain't Albert Belle, if that's any consolation. But he certainly isn't a media darling either.

Somewhere in between lies the truth.

And he's the second greatest player of all time. And the NL MVP, again (check the Giants' being dusted by Montreal while he was out this weekend).

I am not a Bonds fan myself - however -

He is the SINGLE largest 'drawing card' for away games in MLB (next to the Yankees)!

Rather impressive!

Largest drawing card other than the Yankees is Sosa. Marlins drew over 100,000 for a weekend series with the Cubs. Not that much for the Giants.

Could that be due to the Latino population in Miami?

Could be.

Sammy also had the Corked Bat incident earlier this year. That may have helped spike the attendance a bit.

What I think is sad about Bonds is just how little fun he seems to have.

He reminds me of this guy I hung out with in high school. This guy Steve was a great keyboard player, an excellent musician, had the look and the charisma. But he didn't really like playing all that much, but since he "had the gift", he was fawned over and pushed to do this and that. He just gave it up when he was about 25 and didn't regret it at all.

And Willie Mays was a better all-around player than Barry Bonds will ever be.

I suppose its my turn to claim the earth has come off its axis, as I actually agree with Jim Allen. Stop the presses! Alert Ted Koppel!

Mays was without equal as an OF in his day. Bonds can't field worth a shit.

What's with all the Bonds bashing? It's not like Barry's working on some bad boy image. Sure, he may be icy, but he doesn't go around talking smack. And people should respect his game. If you ever watch him hit a home run at the first pitch in extra innings like he did this week against the Braves (the number one team in MLB), you'd see the inspiration as the ball soars into the San Francisco bay.

Yeah, he's not a favorite, but he should be given his props for the stats he's accomplished, and the man's nearing 40!

Ridiculous. He was the best LF in the game when younger, and is still above average. Maybe you're thinking of Ted Williams?

So Jim Allen, if your gauging of Bonds' "fun" is accurate, why didn't he quit at 25? I think it's the media and fan groupthink he doesn't like, and that's far from baseless.

Or maybe he was thinking of Willie Mays ... at the tail end of his career ... disgracing himself in the outfield with the '73 Mets.

You can argue that Willie Mays was better than Bonds at their respective peaks ... and it's a function of how good Bonds is that Mays is the most relevant comparison ... but Bonds is aging slower and much more gracefully. Perhaps it's a function of modern training methods and pharmaceuticals, but it's reality.

Barry Bonds: you don't have to like 'im, but sure ought to respect him.

[ August 21, 2003, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: Charlie in the Trees ]

Or maybe it's a deal with the devil. Nobody else seems to have benefited quite so dramatically from pharmaceuticals and training. The only place where age seems to have affected Bonds is that he is definitely slower than he was when he was young. He's actually been a better hitter in his late 30's than his late 20's which is almost unprecedented. Hank Aaron aged gracefully, Bonds is doing something else.

Up until 3 years ago, Mays was well ahead of Bonds, but since then Bonds began his Babe Ruth imitation and shows little sign of slowing down. I don't feel comfortable discussing his place in history until he either retires or declines significantly.

I gotta call you on that point, Bill W....Bonds was NEVER anywhere near the best left fielder in the game, even when he was younger, and some of these sportscasters who continually praise his defensive skills have got to be blind....now I can fully understand how some fans can make an argument for Bonds being one of the top 5 or 6 best OFFENSIVE players in the history of the game (although the OBVIOUS assistance he has gained from steroids and artificial supplements detracts from his statistics IMHO) but I can't see how any outfielder whose arm strength is as mediocre as Barry's can receive the accolades he does -- does anyone remember his 15 hop throw to home from medium left field that allowed a hobbling Sid Bream to score the winning run in the ALCS for the Braves and cost the Pirates (in Barry's pre-steroid days) a trip to the Series?

I marvel at the defensive skills of Ichiro Suzuki and Vladimir Guerrero who save their team countless runs each season not only with their outfield assists but by the mere fact that runners don't DARE try to take an extra base or tag up on a potential sac fly when the ball is hit to them -- I can't recall many similar instances where baserunners or third base coaches did not even attempt to advance the extra base due to fearing Bonds' defensive prowess.

[ August 21, 2003, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: gamecock ]

I will concede his arm is the weakest part of BB's defense (Willie Mays did not have a gun either). But Barry's page at Baseball Reference (scroll down to Fielding) gives him a career Range Factor considerably above the NL average. (Ted Williams' WAS worse than average.) This and other defensive metrics indicate those Gold Gloves were deserved.

(You've got to rely on the perspective of stats when analyzing an 18-year history, not your blinkered memory of one "15-hop throw.")

As for "countless runs" saved by outfield arms ... statheads have counted, and you're overestimating their number. Throwing arm for an outfielder is probably the least vital "tool," as long as it's not awful.

The casual slur of steroid use -- prove it. No one has. He takes supplements and has said so. As did McGwire, as does Sosa.

Barry Bonds worth? Let's see -

i. Bonds single handedly has the Giants in first place by 10 games in the NL West,

ii. SF Giants just swept the Atlanta Braves in a three-games series. Bonds homers in the 10th - in two of 'em. By doing so he moved w/in 8 homers of Willie Mays on the all-time list!,

iii. Ask Jeff Kent, when hitting in front of Bonds - he (Kent) was an MVP and RBI stud. Now. Kent has 7 more rbis than Ty Wigginton (3rd baseman for NY Mets)! Rather telling! No?

I agree that Bonds doesn't show joy, but he clearly is driven to succeed and shows satisfaction in doing so. It is incredible how good he has made himself - mentally he's three times the player he was in Pittsburgh. It seems like he should be one of the prize ponies that George brings in for the Yanks- someone who you admire their talent, but don't really care about.

Careful there, AU Tiger, the sun isn't scheduled to implode for another 2 billion years or so, taking this hunk of rock with it. Don't want to hasten to the process!

My abiding image of Bonds will be this:

Pac Bell, a day game. He hits a towering shot to deepest center field. He does all that super-annoying posing at the plate, the twirling around bullshit. And...the ball lands at the base of the wall, and only by running his ass off does he even make it to second base.

That's Barry Bonds to me. Your mileage may vary widely, of course.

Jim Allen, I thought it as you that made some comment many moons ago about the earth coming off its axis when you agreed with me. It was a funny comment. But maybe if I've gotten you mixed one of the numerous anti-AU Tiger postees. LOL.

In unrelated news, Mars is closer than its been in 60,000 years. So maybe the Earth will come off its axis anyways.

Back to the original comments by Wertheim, they're grossly overblown. I don't have a problem with Bonds not being media-friendly. Hell, he's not running for Mr. America, but trying to be the best damned ball player in MLB. Not everyone is going to be Sammy Sosa and play the minstrel every five seconds (only to get ripped to shreds when he fails with a stunt like the corked bat). Barry, like Pedro Martinez, another truly great player, has just had it with the media and their bullcrap. He lets his bat do the talking. And SF fans--and many others out there--respond accordingly.

Sosa deserved to get ripped. He used a corked bat. He broke the rules and got caught. His overinflated ego just didn't allow him to accept the fact that he was wrong, so he whined about the media.

So Barry homers his first appearance back after his dad's death, has to leave the game and be hospitalized with a heart rate of 160 ... then wins the first game back after his release.

I think future characterizations of his "playing without emotion" and "not caring" can be safely called stupid.

This is from today's Phila. Daily News:

I thought that if you really trusted and had faith in God that you're able to better handle difficult situations...at any rate, I hope he finds peace of mind.