Angel Berroa richly deserves his AL ROY, but Dontrelle Willis beating the clearly deserving Brandon Webb (who finished THIRD!) makes me ill!
Anyone who voted for Willis is a nitwit. Sure to be the biggest rock of the postseason honors, even if they rob Barry again...
[ November 11, 2003, 06:51 AM: Message edited by: Bill W ]
Full Version: Berroa, Willis (bleccchh) take Rookie of the Year
This was not a vote for Angel Berroa, but rather a vote against Hideki Matsui's age. Amazingly, it didn't bother the sportwriters when Ichiro Suzuki won the award a few years ago. But, then again, he didn't play for the Yankees.
I would agree that Matsui lost the award for the wrong reason. When I hear writers say they consider Japanese pro ball a major league, that's self-serving, convenient bullshit. If that's the case, how come the players *currently* in Japan aren't considered for annual awards? Consensus seems to be that their leagues are somewhere between AAA and MLB in quality. A MLB rookie is a rookie.
That said, Berroa deserved the award. He OUTSLUGGED Matsui .451-.435 while playing a more vital defensive position. Some will inevitably point to Matsui's 106 RBIs, which are of course a function of the extra opportunities his teammates provided him.
Any writer who put Rocco Baldelli (11 homers, 30 walks, about 450 outs) first may be even dumber than the ones who snubbed Brandon Webb!
[ November 11, 2003, 07:06 AM: Message edited by: Bill W ]
That said, Berroa deserved the award. He OUTSLUGGED Matsui .451-.435 while playing a more vital defensive position. Some will inevitably point to Matsui's 106 RBIs, which are of course a function of the extra opportunities his teammates provided him.
Any writer who put Rocco Baldelli (11 homers, 30 walks, about 450 outs) first may be even dumber than the ones who snubbed Brandon Webb!
[ November 11, 2003, 07:06 AM: Message edited by: Bill W ]
I must admit that Berroa went under my radar. Given the precedent of Ichiro, Kaz Sasaki and Hideo Nomo (plus Bob Hamelin, who was advanced in age when he won rookie-of-the-year), I'm not sure why Matsui was snubbed. But it's no biggie.
I am aware of Brandon Webb, as I had him on my fantsasy baseball team. Podsednik's numbers are impressive, too. But I think Dontrelle Willis really captivated the league, and that he gave a big boost to the Marlins early-mid season made him the popular favorite.
I am aware of Brandon Webb, as I had him on my fantsasy baseball team. Podsednik's numbers are impressive, too. But I think Dontrelle Willis really captivated the league, and that he gave a big boost to the Marlins early-mid season made him the popular favorite.
QUOTE
canmark:
But I think Dontrelle Willis really captivated the league, and that he gave a big boost to the Marlins early-mid season ...
Yeah... so they should've either given an Entertainer of the Year or First Half Award to Willis, and noticed that Webb pitched better. (At least Mark Fidrych was flaky AND great all year in '76!) Kinda the way baby boomers who rave about The Graduate don't seem to notice its second half isn't even good.But I think Dontrelle Willis really captivated the league, and that he gave a big boost to the Marlins early-mid season ...
Canmark does get points for remembering Bob Hamelin.
.. though I don't think age is any factor in R.O.Y.[ November 11, 2003, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Bill W ]
Scott Podsednik deserved to be rookie of the year...if he had been playing on an East or West coast team instead of Milwaukee he would have won...here is an everyday player who was only the fourth rookie in major league hisory to bat at least .300 (.314) with 40 steals & 100 runs scored joining Shoeless Joe Jackson & Ichiro Suzuki...Brandon Webb deserved consideration with his pitching numbers but Dontrelle Willis the way he faded in the penant race & ended up pitching out of the bullpen during the playoffs & World Series what a joke!
Matsui didn't get a single vote from 2 sportswriters. I'm hearing at least one of them was from the Boston area. This definitely has to be considered anti-Yankee sentiment. This all relates to that "evil empire" label the Yankees have for winning the bidding war for overseas stars like Matsui and Contreras. I'm not too upset because I can't stand the Yankees.
ESPN.com writer's picks:
Rookie:
4 Matsui, 3 Berroa
4 Willis, 2 Webb, 1 Podsednik
Cy Young:
7 Halladay
6 Gagne, 1 Schmidt
Manager:
7 Pena
6 McKeon, 1 Alou
MVP:
2 ARod, 2 Posada, 1 Garciaparra, 1 S.Stewart, 1 D.Ortiz
6 Bonds, 1 Pujols
Rookie:
4 Matsui, 3 Berroa
4 Willis, 2 Webb, 1 Podsednik
Cy Young:
7 Halladay
6 Gagne, 1 Schmidt
Manager:
7 Pena
6 McKeon, 1 Alou
MVP:
2 ARod, 2 Posada, 1 Garciaparra, 1 S.Stewart, 1 D.Ortiz
6 Bonds, 1 Pujols
Matsui was screwed. Simple as that.
QUOTE
Wisconsin Jock:
Scott Podsednik deserved to be rookie of the year...if he had been playing on an East or West coast team instead of Milwaukee he would have won...
I think more of a factor is that his team pretty much sucked for 95 percent of the year.Scott Podsednik deserved to be rookie of the year...if he had been playing on an East or West coast team instead of Milwaukee he would have won...
[ November 11, 2003, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]
Originally posted by Mattjock:
QUOTE
Matsui was screwed. Simple as that.
Whether Hideki Matsui deserved the Rookie award or not, why do you care, Mattjock? May I remind you of your recent comment in another thread: QUOTE
Who cares about the Cy Young or any other individual award? I sure as hell don't. Its all about winning as a TEAM. Individual awards don't matter.
Oh and thank you for using the word 'hell' in your tirade. It reminds me of the place us 'satanic atheists' call home.
Brandon Webb -- the best rookie in MLB this year -- was screwed. Simple as that.
I agree with Wisconsin Jock, Scott Podsednik should have been the Rookie of the Year in the NL...I saw him play several times this year at Great American Ballpark...he was consistent the whole year, with impressive numbers....playing in Milwaukee on a Non-Contender unfortunately ended up playing a factor...when it should not!
QUOTE
This definitely has to be considered anti-Yankee sentiment. This all relates to that \"evil empire\" label the Yankees have for winning the bidding war for overseas stars like Matsui and Contreras
OK, the Boston one is fishy, but I just read that the other guys reason was that he didn't think a 28-year old player from a pro league in another country deserved to be the Rookie of the Year. It can be argued that the Japanese League is = AAA but still, I think I agree with the guy.
Berroa deserved the award. Matsui did not.
His numbers are better than Matsui's in most categories, except for RBI's and doubles, and had Berroa batted higher in the lineup, like Matsui, he would have had far greater RBI opportunities.
Hell, even Berroa outhomered "Godzilla", the Japanese home run king, and look at the stadiums they play in. Yankee stadium is much more homer friendly than The K.
Oh, and then there's the question of salary - Berroa makes $302,000 and Matsui makes $6,000,000. How many freaking rookies make $6,000,000 a year?
There are those that say we should look at how Matsui produced in New York with all the media stress - What media stress? He doesn't speak or read the language!
One last thing, the only thing that got Dontrelle Willis the ROY was his leg kick. Period.
His numbers are better than Matsui's in most categories, except for RBI's and doubles, and had Berroa batted higher in the lineup, like Matsui, he would have had far greater RBI opportunities.
Hell, even Berroa outhomered "Godzilla", the Japanese home run king, and look at the stadiums they play in. Yankee stadium is much more homer friendly than The K.
Oh, and then there's the question of salary - Berroa makes $302,000 and Matsui makes $6,000,000. How many freaking rookies make $6,000,000 a year?
There are those that say we should look at how Matsui produced in New York with all the media stress - What media stress? He doesn't speak or read the language!
One last thing, the only thing that got Dontrelle Willis the ROY was his leg kick. Period.
Of course, I and everyone else in KC are thrilled with the correct outcome of the voting, not only with the R.O.Y., but today's Manager of the Year announcment!
About Berroa, columnist Joe Posnanski of the KC Star says it better than I can (I'll cut and past from his column, since you now have to register at the Star's website):
[ November 12, 2003, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: maxallen ]
About Berroa, columnist Joe Posnanski of the KC Star says it better than I can (I'll cut and past from his column, since you now have to register at the Star's website):
QUOTE
In New York it seemed as if everyone from manager Joe Torre on down talked about how Hideki Matsui is an excellent defensive outfielder. Now, a few years ago, everyone would have just taken that on faith.
Hey, the manager says he is a good defensive outfielder, I mean, he sees the guy every day. Matsui must be really good.
Trouble is, there is not a single statistic that says Matsui is anything but a hack in left field. His fielding percentage was lousy, meaning he made lots of errors. His range factor which gives an indication of how many plays he makes was even worse.
His zone rating which is designed to tell the percentage of plays an outfielder makes in his defensive zone was absolutely dreadful, 18th out of 19 left fielders who qualified, ahead only of Boston's Manny Ramirez who has the range (and general concentration level) of a Barcalounger.
In other words, by every measurable statistic, Matsui was, at best, a mediocre outfielder.
Now, admittedly, defensive statistics can be flawed. They cannot tell the whole story. Maybe Matsui does a lot of good things that stats don't show. But there is no evidence to indicate that Matsui is better than a mediocre outfielder, no matter what Joe Torre says.
...
What happened, I think, is the writers looked hard at their seasons. Matsui had more RBIs and doubles than Berroa. But Berroa had a better slugging percentage, more home runs, more runs scored and offered a whole lot more speed on the bases. It's close. But Berroa had the better year, especially when you consider their defense.
...
People who want to blab on about the pressure of playing in New York somehow overlook how much more pressure there is playing shortstop than left field, especially the kind of Gold Glove shortstop Berroa played for the last four months (and there are plenty of numbers to back that up, including a 49-game errorless streak).
Berroa hit home runs, he stole bases, he played every day, he turned the double play, he made diving stops, he got hit by lots of pitches, he was a big reason (manager Tony Pena believes the biggest reason) that the Royals, coming off a 100-loss season, led the American League Central until the last month. It was, all in all, one of the great seasons a rookie shortstop has ever had.
Hey, the manager says he is a good defensive outfielder, I mean, he sees the guy every day. Matsui must be really good.
Trouble is, there is not a single statistic that says Matsui is anything but a hack in left field. His fielding percentage was lousy, meaning he made lots of errors. His range factor which gives an indication of how many plays he makes was even worse.
His zone rating which is designed to tell the percentage of plays an outfielder makes in his defensive zone was absolutely dreadful, 18th out of 19 left fielders who qualified, ahead only of Boston's Manny Ramirez who has the range (and general concentration level) of a Barcalounger.
In other words, by every measurable statistic, Matsui was, at best, a mediocre outfielder.
Now, admittedly, defensive statistics can be flawed. They cannot tell the whole story. Maybe Matsui does a lot of good things that stats don't show. But there is no evidence to indicate that Matsui is better than a mediocre outfielder, no matter what Joe Torre says.
...
What happened, I think, is the writers looked hard at their seasons. Matsui had more RBIs and doubles than Berroa. But Berroa had a better slugging percentage, more home runs, more runs scored and offered a whole lot more speed on the bases. It's close. But Berroa had the better year, especially when you consider their defense.
...
People who want to blab on about the pressure of playing in New York somehow overlook how much more pressure there is playing shortstop than left field, especially the kind of Gold Glove shortstop Berroa played for the last four months (and there are plenty of numbers to back that up, including a 49-game errorless streak).
Berroa hit home runs, he stole bases, he played every day, he turned the double play, he made diving stops, he got hit by lots of pitches, he was a big reason (manager Tony Pena believes the biggest reason) that the Royals, coming off a 100-loss season, led the American League Central until the last month. It was, all in all, one of the great seasons a rookie shortstop has ever had.
[ November 12, 2003, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: maxallen ]
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