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sportinlife
QUOTE
gamecock:
It's nice to see several of his teammates speak out in support of Danton in  this ESPN story....
5' 9" Danton taking on Brad Bertuzzi suggests a lot of gumption, or a chip on his shoulder. Would that be before or after Bertuzzi's waylaying of Steve Moore? Could there be a connection or is it just the normal jousting?

Wonder if his teammates support will be sustained if Danton is convicted of contracting for murder. That goes a little beyond your normal run-of-the-mill off the ice antics. I'm sure we all hope for the best for him. But that kind of behavior even in a moment of anger and lose (his team had just lost an important hockey game too) can't be condoned.

[ April 17, 2004, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: sportinlife ]
canmark
QUOTE
phillyrunner:
I know this story has been reported on CNN, Rueters and other media outlets, but I think it has been a rather quiet story. If this were an NFL or MLB player involved, I think it would get much more media play, especially if they were household names.
Wasn't there an NFL player a few years back that tried to kill his pregnant girlfriend?

--------------------
Side issue:
I noticed there was a small amount of discussion of this issue on the St. Louis Blues forum (message board) on NHL.com. Interestingly, when one poster mentioned that Danton may be gay, he had to type "g*y" or "g a y." I'm wondering if this is because the word "gay" is forbidden on that board. One time I tried to post the word "gay" on the Toronto Blue Jays fan forum on MLB.com (to mention gay & lesbian community day), and I was also not allowed to use it. Instead I had to type "g*y." I can understand these boards disallowing a word like "fag," but there is nothing wrong with the word gay. Sure, it can be used negatively, but so can many benign words. How can we even talk about "gay day" or about a "gay player" without using the word "gay?!" And doesn't this imply that there's something bad about being gay? Interestingly, I believe that "lesbian" was an acceptable word.

[ April 17, 2004, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: canmark ]
LightningFan
What do you think of this? A snippet from the following article:

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsu...key/8457551.htm


Multiple sources with knowledge of the investigation or who are close to Danton said the relationship was not intimate. One said there isn't any indication the relationship has a "sexual element to it at all."

The FBI could not be reached Saturday for information on the case.

According to authorities, a witness cooperating with the FBI_the person identified in the complaint as being hired by Danton for the murder_went to Danton's Brentwood residence on Thursday. There he was confronted by the acquaintance. The acquiantance, who later worked with the FBI to tape record a phone conversation with Danton, told the witness he was Danton's father, according to the complaint. Sources said that the man at Danton's residence was not his father, with whom they said Danton has not spoken in years.
RGMike
I dunno, but cynic that I am, this latest story sounds a lot like second-day spin-doctoring to me, as if someone (his family? the NHL?) is upset about Reuter's use of the phrase "male lover" and is trying to set the record, er, straight.

Meanwhile, a story in the SF Chronicle -- which is usually savvy-er than most publications regarding gay angles (the story is by one of their own staff writers, not a wire service) actually refers to the woman accused with Danton as his "girlfriend"... the first time I've seen her called that so far. Things are getting murkier instead of clearer.
Joe in Philly
QUOTE
sportinlife:
5' 9\" Danton taking on Bertuzzi suggests a lot of gumption, or a chip on his shoulder.  Would that be before or after Bertuzzi's waylaying of Steve Moore?  
Sometime before, because Bertuzzi hasn't played since that incident.

QUOTE
Ice Boy:
My perception is that the NHL hockey clubs are the most gay friendly of all the major revenue pro sports. Maybe it's because of the preponderance of Canadians, who in my long association with many of them are, by nature, very tolerant and gay friendly (not to paint with too broad a brush, I hope.) One NHL hockey club in particular has been quite supportive of a gay hockey group I am associated with.
Ice Boy, would you be able to identify this NHL team?
sportinlife
Thanks for the info Joe. There could still be some connection to Bertuzzi's past though. His kind of dysfuntional behavior unfortunately is often driven by suppressed homosexuality.


QUOTE
LightningFan:
What do you think of this? A snippet from the following article:

 http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsu...key/8457551.htm  


Multiple sources with knowledge of the investigation or who are close to Danton said the relationship was not intimate. One said there isn't any indication the relationship has a \"sexual element to it at all.\"

The FBI could not be reached Saturday for information on the case.

According to authorities, a witness cooperating with the FBI_the person identified in the complaint as being hired by Danton for the murder_went to Danton's Brentwood residence on Thursday. There he was confronted by the acquaintance. The acquiantance, who later worked with the FBI to tape record a phone conversation with Danton, told the witness he was Danton's father, according to the complaint. Sources said that the man at Danton's residence was not his father, with whom they said Danton has not spoken in years.
Regarding the "sources" claiming that there was no sexual connection or aspect to the relationship with the "acquaintance", was the fact that Ryan Johnson was mentioned as Danton's "usual road roommate" later in the article merely a way of protecting the "source"?

By covering up this could be made worse. Unfortunately where homosexuality in sports is concerned that is still the first instinct.

I pray young Mike Danton is on a suicide watch.

[ April 18, 2004, 01:43 AM: Message edited by: sportinlife ]
gmjambear
Sadly, I smell a "ripped from the headlines" Law & Order episode very soon.
Ice Boy
How weird is all this! On ESPN's Sports Reporters a few minutes ago, the Danton story was the second topic of discussion. To their credit, they really didn't soft peddle it. One of the panelists even said that it's a "sad commentary" on the homophobia in sports. Other than that, they made general statements about life imitating art (as they invoked the play Play Makers), and the dysfunctional upbringing Danton suffered through.
Trevor
QUOTE
Cyd at Outsports:
 
QUOTE
PredatorPhan:
Is the editor of \"Out\" still seeing the closeted baseball player?  I wonder what he's going to have say about this incident.
They are not seeing one another in a romantic sense anymore. Though, Brendan Lemon remains very on top of baseball.
LOL Cyd, did you really mean to choose those words? <G>

Trevor
Trevor
I've read a few articles on the net today about this, and some mention the guy being gay, some don't. I think, honestly, that there are way too many facts to come out just yet for us to really be able to know the truth of the matter.

I *do* feel sorry for Danton, however, and I wish the best for him.

I'm not sure he'll plead innocent though. I suppose it might depend on what kind of deal he is offered by prosecutors. If he gets a suspended sentence or something, I could see him taking it. I'm not sure what the actual punishment would be for his crimes.

Trevor
scottie
Story I head on the radio last night referred to his 19 year old girlfriend, said she is also being charged with the same crime. Story said he put out a hit on his friend because his friend had information that could hurt or ruin his hockey career. Information was excessive drinking and philandering.
timber07
[quote]DownLowNY:
[QUOTE]As Cyd noted, sports reporters are sports fans first and reporters only secondarily. They oftentimes have chummy relationships with jocks that they don't want to jeopardize. The media are well aware of the homosexuality of quite few gay pro athletes--at least two of whom are big name players.... [/quote]For once I will defend the media. It is not their job to "out" gay athletes. It is tough enough for a gay athlete to live with the homophobia in the locker room. It would be even tougher if they also had to worry about reporters hiding in their neighbors bushes, watching who goes in and who comes out of their homes.

Coming out of the closet is a personal decision that everyone has to make on their own. Reporters would seem to have an "it's their business" attitude. If the straight players also had that attitude Mr. Danton would probably not be in jail right now.
mdphl
QUOTE
phillyrunner:
I know this story has been reported on CNN, Rueters and other media outlets, but I think it has been a rather quiet story. If this were an NFL or MLB player involved, I think it would get much more media play, especially if they were household names.
I was thinking the exact thing. No doubt the story is muted because the player isn't exactly a household name (with either of his names rolleyes.gif )and because hockey doesn't have as wide an appeal as football, baseball and basketball but I wonder if there isn't also an element that the gay angle just isn't as sexy as it used to be from a media perspective.

Regardless, it will be interesting to see how this story plays out in the days, weeks and months ahead.
Chuck - From the Wings
There is a thing as a double edged sword.

Although this tragic event has brought gays in sports to the near forefront to the mainstream, there are some interesting things to be understood from this event.

1) Pressure of sexuality in sports: This man, a young man at 23, does not have the life experience to handle the challenge and pressure of a relationship in the mainstream light. We know all about many celebrities and their personal lives. The general private homosexual lives of professional athletes doesn't usually come to the surface till after the career is over. Billy Bean watched his lover die and couldn't do a thing about it for example. These are pressures that the average person couldn't possibly comprehend. The solutions are minimal as well, Michael couldn't very well talk to someone on his team about this situation. Does anyone recall that ESPN show where the gay football player was going to be outed by his own lover. It's sad, but not without cause that Michael acted in this way. Perhaps this will be a negative event that turns into a positive one.

2) Domestic Abuse of Same-sex couples: As a survivor of a same-sex abuse situation, I too was in a situation where I wanted to leave my lover and he threatened and acted on outing me at work. The end result was that I moved away from my home to a place where no one knows me 1000 miles away. This is more common than you think.

All in all while the media takes hold of this story, this maybe a pandora box that needed to be opened and addressed. Michael needs help, but he isn't the only one in professional sports. The temper of the environment needs to change to SUPPORT GBLT athletes so that we can be known in the professional sports community as positive people and not ones that resort to violence to deal with our life status.

Chuck Hagel mailto:hagel@gayhockey.orghagel@gayhockey.org
International Gay and Lesbian Hockey Association - Executive board member
Representative to the Gay Games for Hockey
Chuck - From the Wings
QUOTE
gmjambear:
Sadly, I smell a \"ripped from the headlines\" Law & Order episode very soon.
I concur!
DestinyRules
QUOTE
timber07:
For once I will defend the media. It is not their job to \"out\" gay athletes. It is tough enough for a gay athlete to live with the homophobia in the locker room. It would be even tougher if they also had to worry about reporters hiding in their neighbors bushes, watching who goes in and who comes out of their homes.

Coming out of the closet is a personal decision that everyone has to make on their own. Reporters would seem to have an \"it's their business\" attitude. If the straight players also had that attitude Mr. Danton would probably not be in jail right now.
If the "gay angle" would be merely an aside to the issue, I'd agree with you. It's not the reporter's job to "out" an athlete or anyone prematurely. I find the whole prospect of "outing" someone distasteful under most circumstances.

HOWEVER, in this case, if the "acquaintance" is Danton's boyfriend and the gay relationship is one of the central motives behind offing him, then it behooves the media to report it if it's fact. In that case, that is a VITAL piece of information that sheds massive light on the reasons behind why Danton wanted him dead.
MIB
QUOTE
gmjambear:
Sadly, I smell a \"ripped from the headlines\" Law & Order episode very soon.
Yeah, no kidding. Tune in on the 21st to see this very thing, when Law & Order does a story based on a baseball fan who cost his team the pennant by grabbing a foul ball and was then murdered.

Paging Mr. Bartman. Paging Mr. Bartman.
Ice Boy
In answer to Joe in Philly's inquiry about the NHL club I referred to, I'm hoping that soon it will eventually become common knowledge which NHL franchise it is.
fullhand
I'm curious about his namesake, the hockey-camp buddy named Danton.

"He chose "Danton" because it was the first name of a youth he met while helping at a hockey camp."

If there was any intimate relationship between them (like the first guy he ever got it on with), it seems the name change could have been a covert, though extremely public, signal of his sexuality.
I think this guy was really struggling with being a public figure as a pro-athlete and the pressure to remain in the closet. Somehow, someway, he was going to bust out, and big, with a lot of turmoil and aggression - Exactly how he play(ed)s his game.
LightningFan
An article about the extraordinarily close relationship between Danton and his agent David Frost

A highlight:

A number of his former teammates describe Danton as quiet and somewhat anti-social when it came to office outings, and say he refused to participate in team functions and rarely associated outside his small clique.

"He never (went) out to the bars, never saw him with anyone outside of hockey," O'Keefe said. "He never did anything fun, he kept to himself. I've known him since I was a kid and basically his whole life revolves around hockey."

But Danton had no reluctance to spend time with Frost.

"It was certainly odd from our perspective," said Robert Ciccarelli, owner of the OHL's Sarnia Sting, where Danton played before joining the St. Michael's Majors. "We thought he was spending an inordinate amount of time with Frost, and he had absolutely no association with any of his teammates.

Ciccarelli said Frost also spent a lot of time alone with Danton behind closed doors at the home of the family he was billeted with. "It definitely concerned the billet, and it concerned us as a team," Ciccarelli said.

[Link format modified for page alignment. - Outsports moderator]

[ April 18, 2004, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: m1 ]
CPT_Doom
QUOTE
Sadly, I smell a \"ripped from the headlines\" Law & Order episode very soon.
Too late - this is more a case of life imitating art. Not only is there the whole \"Playmakers\" similarity (particularly if it turns out he had a boyfriend and a girlfriend/beard to throw off the team), but Law&Order already did an episode about a baseball player who kills a limo driver who threatened to out him.

As for the claims there was no sexual relationship - we'll only really know that when one or both of them acknowledges the nature of their relationship. I do find it interesting, though, that the sports world seems intent on NOT calling Danton gay until there is irrefutable evidence - it seems that being gay in sports is still worse than anything else - even being part of a murder-for-hire caper.

edited to add:

The story gets weirder - Danton's agent is now claiming he's delusional, lives alone and does not have a gay lover:

QUOTE
\"Mike is suffering from some paranoia and some delusional thoughts regarding his past,\" David Frost, Danton's agent, said from California. \"In his mind, Mike honestly thought he was in danger.\"

The FBI's allegation is Danton, 23, from Brampton, and Katie Wolfmeyer, 19, hired a \"hitman\" to kill an acquaintance of the player who shared an apartment with him.

The FBI complaint alleges Danton fought with the man Tuesday over Danton's \"promiscuity and use of alcohol.\"

Frost said Danton lived alone and there is no gay lover.

Later in the story it states Danton will be undergoing psychiatric evaluation upon returning to St. Louis.

Full story: Calgary Sun coverage

Does this sound like a desperate cover-up attempt to anyone else?

[ April 18, 2004, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: CPT_Doom ]
mdphl
QUOTE
CPT_Doom

Does this sound like a desperate cover-up attempt to anyone else? [/QB]
Yes AND (perhaps more significantly) the beginning of a criminal defense strategy.
Jim at Outsports
QUOTE
Does this sound like a desperate cover-up attempt to anyone else?
Yes. I think all sides in this will do their best to keep the real nature of their relationship a secret, which is why I can see Danton pleading guilty to avoid a lengthy trial. I am going to address all this stuff in a column later today.
Bo Folsom
Disclaimer: For the record, "Ice Boy" on OutSports.com is not the same as "iceboy@earthlink.net" and the views posted by "Ice Boy" are not mine.

Those involved with IGLIHA (Int'l Gay & Lesbian Ice Hockey Association), the Federation of Gay Games, Team Seattle, and the Sports Alliance of Greater Los Angeles are all familiar with me as "iceboy@earthlink.net" and I'd like it to be clear to the OutSports community that "Ice Boy" is not me. Furthermore, this is my first ever posting to OutSports.com.

I apologize for diverting the discussion from the topic, but past postings by "Ice Boy" have been taken by my colleagues as having been written by me when - in fact - they were not. As a former journalist (editor of the Orange County Blade and publisher of 2oo2 Magazine in Seattle), I have never authored any material anonymously.

-- Bo Folsom (iceboy@earthlink.net since 1994)
Ice Boy
Bo, sorry about the confusion, I had no idea. I will change my ID so as not to create any further confusion.
DownLowNY
QUOTE
timber07:
QUOTE
DownLowNY:
As Cyd noted, sports reporters are sports fans first and reporters only secondarily. They oftentimes have chummy relationships with jocks that they don't want to jeopardize. The media are well aware of the homosexuality of quite few gay pro athletes--at least two of whom are big name players....
For once I will defend the media. It is not their job to \"out\" gay athletes. It is tough enough for a gay athlete to live with the homophobia in the locker room. It would be even tougher if they also had to worry about reporters hiding in their neighbors bushes, watching who goes in and who comes out of their homes.

Coming out of the closet is a personal decision that everyone has to make on their own. Reporters would seem to have an \"it's their business\" attitude. If the straight players also had that attitude Mr. Danton would probably not be in jail right now.
Nobody here, least of all me, said that the media should out anyone. How you draw such an inference is a mystery. The point is that the media are playing games with the reporting of this story and are holding back or distorting key information. This is obviously a gay lovers' quarrel that has gotten out of hand, the media however, wish to pretend that there is some other "more acceptable" (i.e., less gay) explanation.

Furthermore, this is hardly the first time the media have pulled this kind of thing. We all know about the quarterback who has been arrested not once, not twice, but three times for having sex with men in public places. The media dutifully print his denials of homosexuality--all the while knowing that they are totally false. Just as they printed the AIDS denials of Rock Hudson and Liberace knowing that they were false.

As I indicated before, the media know a lot more than they choose to report, especially when it comes to the subject of homosexuality. Nobody is arguing for gratuitously exposing the private lives of anyone, but the media have an obligation to report the facts as they become available. Clearly, that is not being done in this story.
Joe in Philly
QUOTE
scottie:
Story said he put out a hit on his friend because his friend had information that could hurt or ruin his hockey career. Information was excessive drinking and philandering.
Drinking and (especially) philandering wouldn't ruin a career. He'd have to get counseling for the drinking but then he'd be allowed back. The vagueness of it is what's fueling all of this speculation. If we heard the tape-recorded conversations then we'd know.
sportinlife
QUOTE
CPT_Doom:
Too late - this is more a case of life imitating art. Not only is there the whole \"Playmakers\" similarity (particularly if it turns out he had a boyfriend and a girlfriend/beard to throw off the team), but Law&Order already did an episode about a baseball player who kills a limo driver who threatened to out him.
Hey CPT_Doom you've been quoted, though your handle isn't specified. smile.gif

What I can't wait to see is the explanation they come up with to tie this all together without the gay angle. Maybe they hope it will just die a slow death.

[ April 18, 2004, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: sportinlife ]
LightningFan
I like the last paragraph:

"You know society is screwed up when the press is more ashamed to report on a guy's own sexuality than his hiring someone to kill another human being. Go figure."

I totally agree.
MPetrelis
I can't locate any sexy photos of the suspect.

He sure looks attractive in his official team shot that Outsports is using on the opening page.

Were any photos taken of Danton before he was arrested, showing off his hunkiness?

Where can I find them?
timber07
QUOTE
MPetrelis:
I can't locate any sexy photos of the suspect.

He sure looks attractive in his official team shot that Outsports is using on the opening page.

Were any photos taken of Danton before he was arrested, showing off his hunkiness?

Where can I find them?
rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif
hockeyTom
We shall continue to see if this story has legs next week. My understanding is that the guy from Canada said that the Blues player had problems with alcohol, and promiscuity. It will really be interesting to hear the spin, because I think hockey is probably the most homophobic of all major sports today, but I have been encouraged by some of the comments I have heard from the Blues players.
TXVegHead
QUOTE
This is obviously a gay lovers' quarrel that has gotten out of hand...
I don't see how it's so obvious.
It's been less than two days, and a Sunday at that. No paper or news outlet that I can find had anyone on the record stating that Danton is gay or that his male friend is/was his lover.
All they've got is the quote from the law enforcement guy saying that Danton was recorded on the wire tap as saying to his \"aquantince\" that he didn't want the other guy \"to leave him,\" and every media outlet just seems to be speculating from there.
While this very well might be the relationship, it's too early, to me, to begin speculating, for it falls into that gray area of \"projecting\" what we think is the relationship.
For best what I could tell from earlier reports, the \"friend\" might just know something about Danton that Danton didn't want revealed, and it could possibly be that the friend is gay and knows that Danton is, too.

QUOTE
the media however, wish to pretend that there is some other \"more acceptable\" (i.e., less gay) explanation.
A blanket assumption on what every media outlet out there is thinking in their reporting process, huh? Impressive.
Don't you think it's a little heavy on the \"conspiracy\" side to assume that the reason the non-gay media is holding off on a possible gay angle is because they're unwilling to talk about a gay angle?
Sounds more like the media outlets are being careful in what they report and waiting until they have something substantial.
I mean, the story broke last night.
And late last night was when the references to Danton's homosexuality got mixed in.
With it being Sunday, no police offices open, no way to get before a judge for any kinda of early legal stuff, they might just be waiting.
No one wants to get sued for reporting a breaking news story wrong.


QUOTE
Does this sound like a desperate cover-up attempt to anyone else?
Well, now that I understand that most of that story in the Calgary Sun was coming from Danton's own camp, yeah. Sounds like a cover up, and like someone upthread said, a great criminal defense strategy.

Here's to hoping that once the media has something concrete on if Danton really is gay, or had a gay relationship in the past and this "friend" knew it, or if this "friend" is Danton's former college boyfriend, they'll report it.
I'm gonna be severly pissed if the traditional media ignores it.
The truth needs to be told and not glossed over as if being gay or the gay angle is something to be ashamed of.
All this country needs is for little sports dudes and dudettes to see a big sensational case like this have its gay aspect glossed over so they can learn to be even more ashamed of their sexuality by seeing what happens when you grow up and try to be a public figure or sports professional.

[ April 18, 2004, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: TXVegHead ]
sportinlife
I understand exactly where you're coming from TXVegHead (want to explain that handle? smile.gif ) and I am very much looking forward to hearing what the "accurate" explanation will be.

I disagree with those who believe it will reflect badly on the gay community if it turns out he is gay. Those with strong views one way or the other will give it whatever spin they think most supports their view of gays or gays in sports. Dysfuntion in sports is kinda common.
TXVegHead
QUOTE
Those with strong views one way or the other will give it whatever spin they think most supports their view of gays or gays in sports. Dysfuntion in sports is kinda common.
It's also prevelant in social//civil rights struggles.
Anti-gay supporters will show that gays are evil men who will not stop at stooping to killing a lover rather than face the consequences of \"choosing\" their \"lifestyle.\"
And militant gays will show that by not coming out, Danton was forced to kill and he's a black mark on our march to civil/social equality.
All that, plus if the guy really is guilty, makes him screwed one way or another.
Plus, the \"friend\" doesn't sound so innocent, either. Of course, I don't want him killed, but what did he do so forceable to push Danton to do what they say he did?
No one's a winner here.

QUOTE
I understand exactly where you're coming from TXVegHead (want to explain that handle?)
I'm a sports editor, and both I and my boyfriend are vegetarian.
*Shrugs*
Seemed more personal that TXsportseditor.
canmark
The Toronto Sun's got a rather lengthy article on gays in sports entitled WILL THERE COME A DAY WHEN YOUR FAVOURITE ATHLETE CAN ADMIT HE IS GAY? Outsports and Cyd are mentioned in the article, plus Mark Tewksbury, Mike Piazza, Billy Bean, Jeff Garcia and Rosie Jones, etc. (ie. the article is a good summation of the gays in sports issue... and in a paper not usually thought of as being gay positive).

So, if anything, the Danton case is putting gays in sports back in the news.
LightningFan
CNN had one of their "Rap Sheet" debates between two lawyers about an hour ago about the Danton case and they did NOT shy away from discussing the gay angle--in fact, it was the primary focus of the debate.
DownLowNY
QUOTE
TXVegHead
QUOTE
This is obviously a gay lovers' quarrel that has gotten out of hand...
I don't see how it's so obvious.
It's been less than two days, and a Sunday at that. No paper or news outlet that I can find had anyone on the record stating that Danton is gay or that his male friend is/was his lover.
All they've got is the quote from the law enforcement guy saying that Danton was recorded on the wire tap as saying to his \"aquantince\" that he didn't want the other guy \"to leave him,\" and every media outlet just seems to be speculating from there.
While this very well might be the relationship, it's too early, to me, to begin speculating, for it falls into that gray area of \"projecting\" what we think is the relationship.
For best what I could tell from earlier reports, the \"friend\" might just know something about Danton that Danton didn't want revealed, and it could possibly be that the friend is gay and knows that Danton is, too.

QUOTE
the media however, wish to pretend that there is some other \"more acceptable\" (i.e., less gay) explanation.
A blanket assumption on what every media outlet out there is thinking in their reporting process, huh? Impressive.
Don't you think it's a little heavy on the \"conspiracy\" side to assume that the reason the non-gay media is holding off on a possible gay angle is because they're unwilling to talk about a gay angle?
Sounds more like the media outlets are being careful in what they report and waiting until they have something substantial.
I mean, the story broke last night.
And late last night was when the references to Danton's homosexuality got mixed in.
With it being Sunday, no police offices open, no way to get before a judge for any kinda of early legal stuff, they might just be waiting.
No one wants to get sued for reporting a breaking news story wrong.
Anybody with any sense in their head (or honesty in their heart) can see this for what it is, your ridiculous rationalizations notwithstanding. It is equally clear that the media are pulling punches on this story. This story will almost certainly become big enough that the media are going to have to report the gay angle that they have been trying to tap dance around. A lot of bubbles are going to be burst....
kc
I find the suggestion that the media is conspiring to keep the gay angle out interesting but sort of flawed. I have no reason to doubt that they don't print the orientation of athletes they know to be gay, although if a guy got arrested for public sex, I would find it hard to believe they wouldn't print that.

Maybe the word is self-censorship, rather than conspiracy. I don't think they're calling each other up: "Hey, you're not going to print that he's gay, are you?"

But in this case, I'm not even sure it's self-censorship. The FBI report -- and that's all anybody has to go on -- leaves an impression but not proof it's a lover's spat. I think most writers played the sobbing anecdote high to telegraph the situation to readers and let them make their own conclusions. It was rarely subtle.

Here in Toronto, practically Danton's hometown, the Star trotted out their top columnist to cover the story. Her lead: "Mike Danton has always been a queer duck." And she's not bashful about mentioning the gay angle, even though she makes it clear that it's all inferred.

The rest of the story is just a rehash of the FBI report. A sidebar makes more inferences about a weird relationship with his agent, but again, it's all speculation.

The point is: Your gaydar may be convinced, but for a journalist, there's not many solid facts to report right now beyond the FBI report.

In time, though ...
jofa33
hello boyz im new to this site but not new to the subject ...as anyone who has played competitive sports and if this story is true
and knows the pressures of being on a team on the ice or off the ice to keep your sexual orientation a secret it is quite juggling act.
I feel sorry for the guy though murder is not the answer . when I was playing keeping my secret was paramount. I just think that in a perfect world it shouldn’t matter .
TXVegHead
QUOTE
The point is: Your gaydar may be convinced, but for a journalist, there's not many solid facts to report right now beyond the FBI report.

In time, though ...
My point exactly. There's no hard fact as of today/tonight, and there is absolutely no reason for the news media to sensationalize or speculate at such an early age. They're too rational for that.
Let the gossip mongers do the assuming for now, which I see has already begun (and I'm not talking simply about this thread. There are other posting boards out there).

Gaydar can say he's gay, looking inward in our hearts or heads can say he's gay, sure, that's an easy argument to make. But lambasting the media's hesitation to \"speculate\" or \"sensationalize\" in the absense of facts is just stupid.
Common sense shows that there are absolutely no hard facts for the media to fall back on, and no self-respecting newspaper (at least down here in the south where it's not a big story right now) will bother with speculation on a story such as this so early in it.
Not that that ever stopped gossips from gossiping or looking for the worst just to say they're the first in pointing it out. I never understand the pleasure in being ThatGuy!

QUOTE
This story will almost certainly become big enough that the media are going to have to report the gay angle that they have been trying to tap dance around.
I agree, it will become big as more facts get reported.
They're probably stop tap dancing around it when, as some posters have already pointed out, that happens and not before, huh?

QUOTE
But in this case, I'm not even sure it's self-censorship. The FBI report -- and that's all anybody has to go on -- leaves an impression but not proof it's a lover's spat.
Pretty much my whole point, right there.
I mean, soon we'll be able to talk about the facts of the case, how terrible it is for Danton to have gone to murder, how horrible his acquantince is for trying to extort or blackmail, i.e., the whole gamut of emotions.
I just take offense to the wide-sweeping generalization that the media is purposefully not reporting the rumored "gay angle" for homophobic reasons or because they're more comfortable with reporting that he tried to kill someone than mention his sexuality.
If he's gay and that had something to do with it, they should mention it, but if it's not, then it has as little place in the story as mentioning if he's a Republican and Presbyterian.

[ April 18, 2004, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: TXVegHead ]
Matt the Bruins fan
QUOTE
Multiple sources with knowledge of the investigation or who are close to Danton said the relationship was not intimate. One said there isn't any indication the relationship has a \"sexual element to it at all.\"
Yeah, because SO many people try to have platonic friends or \"acquaintances\" murdered for trying to leave them. And break down sobbing when confronted with it.

QUOTE
Frost said Danton lived alone and there is no gay lover.
Perhaps someone should show Frost the FBI affidavit, which mentions the intended victim as signing a waiver to give federal agents permission to search Dalton's apartment. If he lived alone, or even if the guy were a temporary houseguest, they would have gone through a regular search warrant procedure. I think things could only shake out this way if the guy's name was on the lease and the landlord knew he was a resident with the right to allow or block a search. And if he's a platonic roomate, why call him an "acquaintance" rather than saying just that?

I appreciate that Weight and other teammates voiced support for Danton... I would hope for prospect of having a gay teammate rather than "hey, I'm sure my buddy had a good reason to want someone offed." Danton admitted to the conspiracy on the FBI-recorded phone call and his accomplice has already signed a written confession. There really doesn't seem to be much room for doubt as to his guilt, only his exact reasoning. I suspect his playing career is a moot point now, as I seriously doubt him to be one of those players with enough talent to remain in the game after the age of 33 (which just might be how old he is when the sentence is up).
Jim at Outsports
After reading the entire FBI complaint and as much media as I could find, I've posted my lengthy take on the subject.
sportinlife
Maybe "promiscuity" is the key word in all of this. It suggests Danton had other partners, most likely more than one. Hard to believe that we wont hear from one of them at some point.
TXVegHead
You made some good points, Jim.
I mean, the assumptions basically write themselves.
I really liked your summarization:
QUOTE
Delusional. Paranoid. Suicidal. It would appear that these labels are preferable to some over what I suspect is the truth: Mike Danton is a closeted homosexual who panicked when he thought a career-threatening secret was about to be revealed by an angry lover who was threatening to leave him. But in the sports world, it's still better to be thought crazy than gay.
Sad.
How it's better to be thought crazy in the sports world than to be thought gay.
I hope than Danton really does get some help. It's clear he needs it.
Poor soul.

[ April 18, 2004, 11:19 PM: Message edited by: TXVegHead ]
Jim at Outsports
Thanks. It's always struck me how the media and people in general demand a much higher standard of proof before they'll believe someone is gay. But if a guy is seen for 5 minutes with a woman on his arm, all sorts of things are instantly assumed about his heterosexuality. It's why it's so easy for guys to stay closeted and pass.
shore
I'm just surprised at how little this story is being covered. A small paragraph and half in the NY Times, I've seen no mention on ESPN over the occasional watching over the weekend, no note of it this morning on Cold Pizza and News, no coverage on the crawl. but you see all sorts of info on the Jayson Williams case.

And from what I've read, it's not yet clear clear that it was a gay relationship.
canmark
The story's getting big coverage in Toronto, with articles in the front (news) section of the paper, not just in sports.

An interview with Danton/Jefferson's father from today's Toronto Star.

QUOTE
\"It was about two years ago, and I managed to get him on the phone, and he just said, `Dad, I'm on a bus. I've got to go.' I hadn't spoken to him in a couple of years, and that's all he would say,'' said Jefferson, his broad shoulders shaking with sobs.

His son, who legally changed his last name to Danton two years ago, is charged with hiring a hitman to kill an unnamed acquaintance. He was arrested Friday in San Jose, the day after St. Louis was eliminated from the NHL playoffs.

Since then, life at the home Jefferson shares with his wife, Sue, and son Tom has been chaotic. Reporters have been knocking and calling constantly.

Through it all, Jefferson has longed to speak with his son, but doesn't know how to reach him. He blames his son's agent for \"ruining\" the player's life.

``I feel empty. I don't know how to get in touch with Michael. I haven't been able to talk to him in a long time. I'm lost,'' Jefferson said.

It wasn't always that way. Once, he says, his eldest son had a normal, loving relationship with the rest of his family. That all began to change, Jefferson said, once he was introduced to David Frost, a former coach who now works as an agent for NHL players, including Danton.

. . .

One thing Frost and Jefferson agree on is that Danton isn't gay. Both say that speculation the intended target was a gay lover was based on a misinterpretation of court documents.

\"He absolutely lived alone, but that's not to say he didn't have a friend staying there in his apartment. But it's not a gay lover,'' said Frost.
LoveJavy
A few comments on comments about "the media."

I work in the big, bad media and, while I've been frustrated by the lack of coverage on this so far, I want to add a little perspective. First, this was developing over the weekend, when it's harder to gather information because people, even in law enforcement, don't always work. It's much easier for reporters to get information on weekdays. And I think we'll see more facts coming out as this goes along. Second, the story would be much bigger if any one had ever heard of this guy beforehand. Third, it would be much bigger if someone were actually dead; talking about murder isn't quite as sensational as actually murdering someone.

Fourth, in the eyes of the media, someone being gay isn't viewed in the same light as it used to be. There is no longer a complicit agreement to keep it quiet WHEN THERE IS A REASON TO TALK ABOUT IT. And, while we all here suspect this is about a gay relationship, that's not enough to get into a legitimate news story. NOT because reporters want to "protect" closet cases -- but because we just don't know much about all of this yet and there are plenty of other plausible ideas to "speculate" about.

I know lots of sports reporters who would LOVE this to develop into a gay story because it would make it a bigger story and let them write about "gays in sports" in new ways.

So, phew, not to totally defend everyone who works in any media outlet... I just want y'all to understand that it's not as simple as you might like it it to be.
bridgeportjake
Man, that Frost guy doesn't know when to shut the hell up. If he really had Danton's best interests at heart, he wouldn't say anything to the media - it f**ks with the player's defense. Saying he's paranoid can only help the prosecution, in my opinion.

I'm more than willing to believe that Danton isn't "gay" (whatever that means). In fact, reading today's article in the Toronto Star, a much more obvious conclusion is that Frost is a Svengali figure, and that he was the intended target. Yes, at the end of the story, he "denies vehemently" the rampant speculation that he WAS the target ... and then says "I have nothing more to say." Well, Frosty, you sure had a lot to say before that question.

Youth hockey in Canada is infamous for stories of molestation and guru-like behavior from its coaches. It would not surprise me at all if Frost

1) intentionally separated a young Danton from his family at a very young age with promises of a professional career,
2) made him believe that only Frost cared about him,
3)served as a non-sexual father figure,
4) stayed with him as he moved to St. Louis, and then
5) threatened to "leave" him for some financial or emotional blackmail or just crazy ass GURU behavior.

What would a basket (not necessarily closet) case like Danton do in that situation? Try to scare Frost or even kill him. Not every emotionally intense relationship involves sex. Kids kill their parents with shocking frequency. And who would Danton really trust to be in him apartment while he was away, who would then identify himself to a hitman as Danton's father ... other than his actual father figure.

And whoever this "Danton" kid was that Mike chose to name himself after COULD be a crush - or a non-sexual "boy crush" - or as Mr. Jefferson suggests, a convenient name that Frost encouraged him to use in order to divide the kid from his parents that much more.
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