I'm with Derek Zumsteg, it should be North Jersey or an outer borough of NYC, but that's under the category When Pigs Fly...

Any Vegas thoughts, Charlie in the Trees?

Well, the DC talk has been going on forever. Originally, I was very excited for it. I don't think of Baltimore as local (I've spent 3 hours in the car getting there for a week night game), but I love going to games.

If they decide to go to RFK and keep the team in the city, I'm all for it. It's easily accessed by metro (walk a couple of blocks) and would help that area of the city. Unfortunately, most of the money in the area would probably put it in Northern Virginia. This ends up making it a team for the suburbanites who don't mind the ridiculous parking and pain of getting there (read horror stories about the Redskins). if that's the case, then all i see it as is an increase to traffic in northern virginia.

After all this flip flopping, I honestly have lost interest, who cares at this point as long as they make a decision sometime.

DC Guy, get excited again!

I'm tired of giving my money to Peter Angelos and watch him destroy that team. I don't mind the drive up to Baltimore either, and I'll certainly continue to make it to see the Red Sox play (and other teams, Camden Yards is just that nice). But think how exciting it will be to have a club in our backyard! If you can't stay excited, we're screwed because DC fans suck (been to a Caps game recently?) and will never make enuf noise to get the team to come.

As for Northern Virginia, I think they're gonna have a problem with the state government who already think that the Northern part of the state gets too many perks. I hear they haven't come up with a ballpark financing plan, which the MLB requires.

Northern New Jersey is a good idea, I think. Better than Portland, but it'll never happen. If you think Angelos can cause trouble, lets see what Tom Wilpon has to say about having a National League team in his backyard.

No, no DC guy, we're headed to RFK next April. First beer's on me.

Sounds good, as I said, at RFK, I'll be all for it. I went to see the United and Freedom there, and I'm not even a fan. I like going there.

Great points raised in your post, BostonFan....as much as I love the game, it truly pains me to give my money to an owner who has single-handedly ruined one of the most successful, storied, and (formerly) classy franchises in all of sports....it is ironic that the team with the absolute BEST ballpark in the country (Camden Yards, of course, with all due respect to Yankee Stadium, which still has an aura all its own) is subjected to playing for a second-class owner who has repeatedly demonstrated his miniscule knowledge of running a major league franchise with his littany of horrendous personnel decisions. ....nevertheless, I already have my tickets for the O's-Red Sox series during the opening weekend of April 4th-6th -- even Angelos can't completely keep me away from watching the greatest game in person....what he has failed to realize, however, is that the economic benefits he has gained for the past decade from being the "only game in town" (albeit 50 miles away in normally horrendous traffic ) are short-lived and I know I'm not the only fan who shares those thoughts either.

On to better subjects -- Virginia's Governor and General Assembly have all but said that they will not contribute ONE PENNY of the state's money toward the construction of a new ballpark (due in large part to the astronomical deficit/budget crisis faced by the state) and has voiced little, if any, support for relocating the Expos to NoVa....conversely, DC Mayor Anthony Williams has done everything but organize the celebratory parade for the new Washington "Senators" and will be directly involved when the formal presentations are made to Selig and his cronies in NYC next month....besides, does ANYONE honestly believe that Portland, Oregon will be awarded the next franchise, let alone a third team in the NY metropolitan area? :confused: ....btw, BostonFan, not to sound too nit-picky, but it's Fred Wilpon, not Tom Wilpon, who would have something to say if another NL team was suddenly competing with the Mets.

I, for one, am eagerly looking forward to the return of baseball to our Nation's Capital (and, NO, Baltimore is NOT in the same market as DC/NoVa anyway) and only hope that the Expos are able to retain their young nucleus of talent including Vlad, Vidro, and Vazquez -- not to mention all the cute young players on the team (Barrett, Bergeron, Day, et al) wink

One more thing BostonFan -- I'll not only take you up on that first beer offer next April at Opening Day at RFK but I'll buy EVERY Outsporter who is at the game a beer myself!....that will be a day worth celebrating -- and not solely because we know Angelos will be gritting his teeth in anger up in "charm city" at his lost revenue and dwindling fan support -- which sadly is due to his own ineptitude, something the egomaniac attorney is too vain to realize.

[ February 20, 2003, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: gamecock ]

NOVA is my hope...But, I grew up there and get tired of Virginia having jack$#1+ We have the Richmond Braves which means nothing they talk more about the parent team in Atlanta then the do about them....I hope Nova gets it...It gives me another reason to go home, other than IKEA...And doesn't New York have enough already...Stop Hogging things. J/K! Oh and the governor in Virginia has wanted this in the state for a while and with our budget...and the veto power he has here...I think if it was offered the state government could be coerced Warner is a Business Man, and a Democrat

I'd like to see the Expos stay north of the border. Could Vancouver or Calgary draw the crowds for MLB, or even be willing to pay for a new stadium? It seems unfair to take baseball away from the Canadian people!

DC failed twice to keep a team. I think the Expos should either head to Puerto Rico or Charlotte. If they're heading west of the Mississippi, I say Las Vegas.

But what about the Marlins or Diamondbacks? If they move, I think they should go to Austin or San Antonio. I would say Mexico City, but given the problems the Canadian teams have had with salaries and slanted currency exchange, only U.S. territory could work.

But what about the Brewers? Maybe they could move to Vancouver? They certainly wouldn't be any worse off with new ownership. Their current lousy owner has run them completely into the ground. I hope the Twins stay in Minnesota.

Good points, SeaMarFan....if given the choice I would honestly prefer to see the Expos REMAIN in Montreal -- and I AM being sincere about this despite the fact that I DESPISE Peter Angelos and grudgingly give my money to him just to see a "local major league" (and that's somewhat questionable now ) team play.

I hate to see teams relocate in ANY sport (going back to the way the Irways moved the Colts out of Baltimore and the O'Malley's deserted Brooklyn, both of which were their own selfish gain) unless it is absolutely necessary, which I truly don't feel is the case with the 'Spos....if they were able to secure decent local ownership (which obviously has been the key stumbling block for some time) that was willing to invest in the team and maintain at least a competitive payroll (as opposed to a payroll that is less than 15% of the Yankees now eek! ) then both the club's performance on the field and at the gate would return to where they were in the late 80s and early 90s.

Considering the overall support that the Expos have received for NEARLY 35 YEARS in Montreal, I view the way Selig has handled this matter over the past two years as another one of his MANY disgraceful acts while in office....what the national media fails to mention is that the Montreal baseball fans (of which they are still a VERY large number, without a doubt) finally got fed up with the AWFUL ownership in Quebec forcing the team to repeatedly lose dozens of quality "home grown" talent because of management's refusal to pay competitive salaries....hence, the Expos' winning percentage naturally declined which resulted in ever dwindling attendance (the same has started to occur in Baltimore over the past two seasons, although not quite to the same degree -- at least not YET anyway).

My point is that IF Selig, Reinsdorf and the other idiot millionaire owners who are controlling the club (and doing a VERY poor job at it, I might add) INSIST that the team MUST relocate then DC/NoVa should be a no-brainer and the support the team will receive here will be astonishing to many "outside observers"!....but in a perfect world, I'd rather see the Expos remain in Montreal and one of the other cities that has shown considerably LESS support for their team and does NOT have a 30+ year track record relocate to the DC area.

[ February 20, 2003, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: gamecock ]

Without going into too much detail, Fantomas, when you compare the circumstances related to the two prior Senators franchises becoming the Twins and Rangers, respectively, to the situation today there are virtually no similarities....first off, for all intents and purposes, there was really only ONE Washington franchise since an A.L. team played in DC as the Senators consecutively from 1901-1971 with NO interruption -- the "original" Senators club, owned by Clark Griffith, moved to Minnesota following the 1961 season and as has been documented in considerable detail on this board previously, they maintained HIGHLY respectable attendance figures (as compared to other cities during that era), which is even more noteworthy considering the fact that they had one of the WORST teams in all of baseball for many decades and consistently finished in 7th or 8th place in the American League (this was prior to there being divisions, of course).

As for the "expansion" Senators (who began play in 1962 in the season immediately following the departure of Clark Griffith's original franchise to Minnesota), they suffered mightily in the standings (as most expansion teams do for a number of years) and just as the club was starting to become competitive and draw respectable crowds again to RFK, Owner Bob Short (who, from all accounts, made Griffith look like a saint with his horrendous managerial decisions) moved the team to Texas following the 1971 season, largely to pad his own personal bank account (not unlike when his predecessors O'Malley and Stoneham moved the Dodgers and Giants to California less than 15 years earlier).

I know I tend to be long winded on occasion (not as if that comes as a surprise to any other Outsporters by now ) and I don't mean to turn this into a booooring history lesson but I felt that Fantomas' point about DC "losing" two major league teams due to poor fan support (which is a common belief held by many fans throughout the country) is not entirely accurate.

Above and beyond the previously stated reasons, the biggest factors now (as compared to 32 years ago, when I was not even a resident here and barely born wink ) are the size of the fan base/overall population within a 30 mile radius, the per capita income (including two of the most affluent counties in the country in nearby MD and NoVa), and the accessibility of the Metro Rail system, NONE of which existed when the two prior teams departed in 1961 and 1971....I admit that I may be biased as a local resident but there is absolutely NO doubt that the DC/NoVa market will support a team extraordinarly well, and certainly far superior to that now being realized by MANY of the existing MLB teams playing in comparably sized metropolitan areas.

[ February 20, 2003, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: gamecock ]

Re-animating this dead (or at least comatose) thread ... my name was mentioned, so I'll take that as a license to squawk.

Las Vegas is my home. It is the city that I love. It is the most wonderful place on earth a person can choose to live. It is not a major league market.

The Oakland A's have looked at Vegas as a possible permanent home. It wouldn't work. The A's need to move, but their ultimate destination will be either Santa Clara County or Sacramento.

Don Fehr has thought for years -- before even the Florida/Colorado expansion in 1993 -- that the most economically sensible expansion location would be northern New Jersey. Yet that's not even on baseball's radar. The Meadowlands area would be sppropriate, as the National League has had a history of two New York franchises. And since the Mets fan base is primarily Queens/Long Island, only points east of New York, a New Jersey franchise would draw from points west of New York, squeezing the Yankees, but still giving them first claims on the hearts and minds of New York baseball fans northward. It's a three-way division of a fan base that functions about as well as anything with the NHL.

But, "economically sensible" is not one of the criteria to be used.

It is enough, though, to stop the two-Canada policy. Vancouver would have been a nice destination, giving a nice East/West balance between the Canadian baseball franchises. They wouldn't even have needed to change the name because Vancouver hosted an Expo about 10-15 years ago, if my memory serves me right. But the Canadian economy is too much a mess, with the exchange rate so obscenely tilted against the Canadian dollar that it no longer makes economic sense for U.S. baseball to base teams north of the border.

[ March 12, 2003, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: Charlie in the Trees ]

Charlie, you're not going to believe this, but Mr. Selig is against locating a major league team in Las Vegas. The explanation we had heard from the Commissioner's Office was, and I'm paraphrasing here, "the image the city of Las Vegas represents is not one with which Major League Baseball prefers to be associated. The very foundation of the city--gambling--is what threatens Baseball's very existence, and we cannot allow that to happen."

After several of my peers and I stopped laughing at that hypocritical comment, I remarked, "But it's OK to reinstate Pete Rose, eh, Mr. Commissioner?"

No. I'm sorry Ump, but you've misquoted Selig. I could swear I heard him say that his concern is that the image of major league baseball would soil the reputation of Las Vegas as a happy, fun and rewarding entertainment experience. wink

Touche'

I never said they lost the teams due to poor fan support, did I? Are those words in my post? No. I said that they "lost" the teams--two different owners decided for differing reasons to move the team from DC. There is now a team in Baltimore (which was originally in St. Louis), and I personally think that should suffice for the Baltimore-Washington area.

I think San Juan, Puerto Rico would be an excellent option. It's part of the U.S. so the pay scales would be exactly the same, it's easily reachable from most places in the U.S., it's a pretty large city, it's a baseball capital in its own right, and locating a team there would be a dramatic statement from the MLB.

CITT, I suggested Las Vegas because it's a booming city now and doesn't really have any major sports teams. But yes, Selig would probably be very much against it.

It needs a new stadium, and even with that, it's not easily reachable from most of the U.S. It's over two hours' flight just from Miami. Imagine if the Dodgers or Giants are at home and their next scheduled game is in San Juan? It'll take a lot of planning to put a team in San Juan and try and minimize the other teams' travel.

I think San Juan is a long-term possibility but not any time soon.

From what I understand the sites they are looking at in Virginia include Pentagon City and Rosslyn. Both would involve razing existing buildings to make room for the park. In Rosslyn it would mean tearing down an apartment complex and displacing lots of people. Bright side, though - both of these places would be extremely convenient by Metro. Another location is apparently out by Dulles, but if they do that I'd just as soon go to Baltimore. BWI would actually be quicker. In DC I think there's a spot on New York Avenue with a fab view of the Capitol/DC skyline. It would also potentially rejuvenate a decayed neighborhood. If they go to DC proper, I assume they would play at RFK until a new stadium is built, which would be nice - I can bike there from my house (not sure that I'd want to). I'm all for a DC team, though. I read all this in the Post, I'm just paraphrasing from memory, but I'm pretty sure about it.

For what it's worth, I get O's tickets through my company's vendors, so I don't have the guilt of giving Petey Angelos any money. Somebody's giving the O's money, but not me. I'm also a Republican, and Angelos is a commie trial lawyer, so it is a doubly painful experience for me to go to an O's game, and I would never, ever pay to do so. But as long as the tickets are already bought and are just going to go unused anyway, I'm there. But I'd rather go in DC.

San Antonio/Austin metro area would be an ideal destination for the next MLB team, if not a current team looking to relocate. San Antonio already has the Alamodome in place, as well as a current successful minor league team as does Austin. Both cities have already had preliminary discussions on building a baseball only stadium. San Antonio has a population of over a million people and Austin has over 500,000 people living there. The area would more than support a major league baseball franchise. I graduated from the University of Texas and still have several friends there, so I tend to keep track of the happennings in that area. Besides, the only other sports franchise they have in that area are the San Antonio Spurs.

[ March 27, 2003, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: SmoothRon ]

I just wonder if the Rangers or Astros would have any say in the way that the Orioles are trying to block DC from getting a team or the Mets/Yankees blocking a team in New Jersey? And I'm not sure the Alamodome is viable. Baseball has been doing a pretty good job of getting away from these plights otherwise known as domes. Though I can't say I mind the home field advantage the Twins get from the Metrodome! :cool:

The "Baltimore-Washington area" is a myth. It can take 2-3 hours to get up there for a game on any day of the week from just 3 miles south of DC in Arlington. I can get to Richmond faster in many cases.

I agree with DC_guy... After a long day of work, the last thing I want to do is jump on 95 or 295 and go watch the Orioles. However, if DC had a baseball team, it would take no time at all via Metro (DC Subway System). I find no problems finding time to go to Capitals games, DC United games, and Wizards games because I don't have to worry about getting home at crazy hours. When I lived in Houston, I went to tons of Astro games. Even though my heart will always be with the Yankees, I am sure I will support a local DC team. The Orioles are strictly a Baltimore team!

Very, very random observation here: At the O's games, usually somewhat late in the game, they always play "Thank God I'm a Country Boy." I have no idea why.

The thing is, as a Washingtonian, I always feel like a guest at an O's game, like I'm crashing somebody else's party. Usually it's me and three or four of my friends and we sit and watch baseball and talk politics. That would feel more right (or whatever) in DC, especially if they call the team the Senators (though I fear we'll end up with some "moderate" players who think the score is just too darned high, or that there are just too many innings and vote to cut everything in half).

Not really; I was in Baltimore just a month ago and saw how the city was developing its transportation infrastructure to connect it even more completely with Washington. Virginia is part of the DC metro area, but instead of hopping in a car why not take the train to Baltimore? I know it's not a 2-3 hour trainride is it? I once took the train from BWI to National to catch a plane and didn't miss my flight. It's better on the environment too.

Put the new team in San Antonio-Austin. Or Charlotte. San Juan. Give other cities a chance. You can have the Brewers once Selig finally realizes he can't keep fooling the citizens of Milwaukee forever.

BTW, W1865, Peter Angelos may be many things, but a communist ain't one of them.

10 minutes to get to the metro, 20-30 minutes to get to Union Station, 50 minutes to get on the train and to baltimore. then I have to get to the game, not even sure where to go.

It's not easy to get there. The airport is also a good bit closer to DC than the stadium. It's a terrible commute after work and the only trains running on the weekends are expensive. it's not easy, doing it once for the airport is probably OK, but trying to go once a month during the season is awful. I don't go anymore.

Oh yeah, and the MARC train that took me to the game won't be running when the game lets out.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just adamant about the difficulty of getting to an O's game from the DC metro area. Arlington is definitely a part of that area.

They did that over ten years ago when I lived in MD and went to some Oriole games. They even did the Brady Bunch theme song once, in honor of Brady Anderson, I suppose.

Anyway, I think Washington would be a good choice. Besides, it would help the Orioles out, because they would have to be competitive again.

And am I not correct that MARC stopped regular operations on the weekends, too? So, you don't even have that option unless you want to spend on an AMTRAK ticket to Baltimore. We are not whining. This is one of the 5 biggest metropolitan areas in the country. Everybody else has at least 2 teams. New York/New Jersey/Connecticut has 2, Los Angeles/Orange County/Anaheim has 2, San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose has 2, Chicago/Northwest Indiana has 2. Baltimore/Washington/Northern Virginia has 1 very FAR north. It's not right!

By the way, according to the 2000 Census, the Washington-Baltimore DC-MD-VA-WV metropolitan area has a population of 7.6 million people (4th in the country in population). People seem to think that there is Baltimore and Washington and nothing but land between the two and around them. More people live here than in San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose (7.0 million), yet they have two ball clubs.

That is correct. I was utterly amazed to find that out last year when I was working in Baltimore.

At the games I went to, they played "Thank God I'm A Country Boy" at Camden Yards during the 7th inning stretch, after "Take Me Out To The Ballgame." Ugh. Last year at the Friday night game of the Phils-O's weekend series they played it but cut off the end, where there's a slight pause and then John Denver yells the last "Thank God I'm a country boy, yeah!"--so I obligingly yelled, "Thank God they stopped playing that record, YEAH!"

I hope the Expos are in the Washington DC area next year. Going to games in Baltimore by car or train from Northern Virginia is a major hassle, and I have yet to find any Washingtonian who feels any significant connection to Baltimore. I believe a study done by the Northern Virginia group trying to get a MLB team found that only a small percentage of people in the Washington area actually attend Orioles games. With over a million people now in Fairfax County, Virginia, alone, I think a baseball team would find plenty of support.

I do hope though that if DC does get a team, people drop the stupid yelling of "Ohhhhhhhh..." during the national anthem when the phrase "Oh say does that star spangled banner..." is sung. People do it at Redskins, Caps, and Wizards games. It drives me nuts!

Man, I thought I was the only one in this area that just "cringes" every time he/she hears that "OHHH" during the National Anthem. I took my parents to a hockey game, and they looked at me like, "What the hell was that?". I had to explain that it is some really wacked tradition here in this area.

ESPN.com is reporting that the Expos could play their entire 2004 home schedule in Puerto Rico. From the article:

Yeah -- things are looking pretty grim here in DC for baseball in the near future.

About the financing plan mentioned in the article, someone finally acquired some cojones here -- Jack Evans, the chair of the DC Council's Finance Committee said that he refused to play MLB's game of pitting metro areas against one another -- he essentially stated "don't jerk us around ... send us the team first, then we'll worry about financing the stadium."

And now with Arlington County's refusal to support a stadium, things may actually be looking up for DC... If DC and MLB can get their act together. Although I would have loved a ballpark in Arlington, I think that the whole region should just concentrate on one location... And DC is looking to be the place. I am sick of driving to Baltimore!! :mad:

Seems like this has been dragging on forever and ever. Is their a deadline by which MLB is supposed to decide what to do with the Expos?

There does not seem to be any deadline, other than at whatever point each year they have to finalize the schedule for the upcoming season.

I don't like the idea of a franchise moving somewhere for one year. If they're going to go to San Juan it ought to be permanent.

I agree. This is getting absolutely ridiculous. Please remind me again why we love this game? ...However, I will say that Arlington County pulling out of this is the best thing that could have happened for DC's chances. Just refurbish RFK Stadium for a couple of years, and play ball! And, Bud Selig get out of that bed with Peter Angelos! It's not a pretty sight!

[ July 20, 2003, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: Cattledog ]

Permanent? eek! ....have you lost your mind Joe?....not only does the "stadium" in San Juan hold less than 20,000 fans but they haven't even been able to sell out THAT park for a meager 22 games, with the potential enticement of a "permanent" team on the horizon if they proved that they were able to strongly support a major league team, which clearly is not the case for a myriad of reason (with the avg income per household in Puerto Rico being near the top of the list).

The Expos are averaging nearly as many fans at Olympic Stadium (over 11,000 per game for what everyone in Montreal knows is a "lame duck" franchise) as they are in San Juan (barely 14,000 per game)....any reasonable person who examines the economics, population breakdown and affluence of the DC area and does NOT think the Nation's Capital will strongly support a major league franchise is crazy -- hell, the Wizards (with or without MJ) have been selling out MCI for years and they haven't even won a single playoff GAME in nearly 20 years! eek!

Lastly, as certain as I am that this area will strongly support the Expos I don't blame the Virginia Baseball group for standing up to Selig's shenanigans earlier this week and proclaiming that we WILL build a stadium for you AFTER you commit to bringing a team here, but not one minute before (after all, RFK is still a viable option for 2-3 years in the interim -- oh yeah, and it only holds nearly THREE TIMES as many people as that high school bandbox does in San Juan)....it's well past the deadline for Selig, Alderson and their MLB cronies to wake up and commit to moving the Expos to DC for the 2004 season!

Let me clarify. I don't think a team ought to move anywhere on an interim basis. That's minor league stuff. With the stadium and the travel and so on, as you mentioned, right now San Juan isn't viable. It could be someday, but not now.

OK, the Washington Senators can play at RFK, but only for a very limited time -- that place is falling apart. Just a couple of years ago, a huge piece on concrete fell from the upper deck onto some lower deck seats during a DC United game. Fortunately, the seats were vacant. Does anybody other than me remember this? A new stadium needs to be built in the District near a Metro station. The mayor likes a site at New York Ave. and N. Cap. St. Personally, I think they should build it at P Street Beach.

Don't you mean that Arlington pulling out is the best thing that could happen for Portland's chances??? Besides, nearest ML baseball to DC is Baltimore (maybe 1 hour)and who doesn't LOVE Camden Yards. Nearest ML Baseball to Portland is Seattle (3 hours away)and SafeCo is nice, but it's no Camden Yards.
wink :confused:

While your points about Camden Yards are right on the money, TonkaMan (it is truly an awesome place to see a game) unfortunately the 45-50 mile trek from DC/NoVa to Baltimore is NEVER an hour or less anymore -- unless you happen to be driving there at 3AM perhaps....as any Washingtonian can attest, no matter what road you take (I-95, BW Parkway, Beltway or any combination thereof) it has now become a minimum 2-3 hour commute, which is just one more reason why Peter Angelos' claims that 35-40% of his fan base comes from DC and its immediate suburbs (which may have legitimately been the case 10-15 years ago) is now absolutely absurd.

It's time for Selig and his corrupt cronies in MLB ownership to quit cow-towing to the egotistical Angelos, overlook their fear of a lawsuit from the billionaire attorney and move the Expos to DC for 2004, where they can comfortably play at RFK until a new stadium is built either in NoVa or in one of the many viable locations that have been suggested in the District itself.

[ July 21, 2003, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: gamecock ]

Sorry gamecock,

It has been five years since I have been to a game at Camden Yards. It would just be nice to get a professional sports team in Portland that one could be proud of (instead of the JailBlazers). And the times I have been to Safeco to see the O's play, getting home at 3:00am has been the norm, unless one gets a hotel room. (which makes for a pricey baseball outing).

Did anyone see the article in the Washington Times (yes, I said Times, not my normal rag, but it happened to be laying around my buiding lobby this am) about Ralph Nader joining the fight against using public funds for baseball stadiums?

It made some pretty good points. As much as I want to see a team come to DC, should we be bankrupting the budget to do it?

Nader is fighting Anthony Williams, but does anyone care?

Why is Nader even being involved in this??? What a crock. I for one would love to see a team in DC... heck, I would even play there!

BG

I hope Portland gets the team, it would give me another excuse to go south. As for traffic, it can take 3 hours just to get out of Seattle also. I think they should change the name of the team also, I would like either Sea Dogs or Sky Pilots. I know the Portland Maine minor league team was called the Sea Dogs.

I guess Oregon's House of Rep has already approved the financing package and they are now trying to push it through their Senate.

Oregon Baseball

[ July 21, 2003, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: 34ra ]

34ra,

Ugh, I know what you mean about Seattle traffic. I'm heading North on Friday. (Going to Vancouver to play Volleyball) Hope we don't get stuck in too much traffic.

Portland seems to have a gameplan for a stadium and where it will go. What will be nice is that Public trans will go right to it. Also it will be close enough to bike to. :cool:

I honestly think Arlington's pullout helpd DC more than it does Portland. I never thought NOVA was really a serious contender anyway because I can't imagine NOVA residents or businesses allowing their taxes to go up to pay for a stadium. They wouldn't do it for much needed roads, so why would they pay for a stadium? In DC, they're spending the taxpayers money on lavish, wasteful things even before the money's been collected. They'll make the rich people pay for it, or assess a tax on businesses. I don't even think it'll be subject to a vote. (Why is it so easy to raise taxes in DC, but not in Virginia?). As for DC vs. Portland, DC has got to be the largest market without a team. I don't consider DC part of the Washington / Baltimore metro area for purposes of the sports teams. I don't root for the Ravens, so why would I be an O's fan? The cities are like night and day. Not knocking Baltimore, though. It's a nice place, in a different sort of way, Hon.

Nice to see him join the cause. Too bad he's at least TEN YEARS TOO LATE to do a damn bit of good! The horse is long out of the barn, Nader, you jackass!

(I say at least ten years because while I'm sure tax dollars have funded sports venues in the past, it really seems to have exploded in the last decade as so many teams started insisting on new buildings.)