Over the last two to four years I have thought I noticed a new phenomena that I was very unclear about...

I put it down to one of those "class things" that I have had to learn over the past ten to fifteen years.

I have been spending more and more time overseas though, and been increasingly aware of this whenever I have returned to the US in particular.

Now I see it may be more widespread than I thought.

"The Elephant in the Room

By ANNE E. KORNBLUT
NYT - Published: October 29, 2006

FOR years, Sheri Langham looked at the Republican politics of her parents as a tolerable quirk, one she could roll her eyes at and turn away from when the disagreements grew a bit deep.

But earlier this year, Ms. Langham, 37, an ardent Democrat, found herself suddenly unable even to speak to her 65-year-old mother, a retiree in Arizona who, as an enthusiastic supporter of President Bush, “became the face of the enemy,” she said.

“Things were getting to me, and it became such a moral litmus test that all I could think about was, ‘How can she support these people?’ ” said Ms. Langham, a stay-at-home mother in suburban Virginia.

The mother and daughter had been close, but suddenly they stopped talking and exchanging e-mail messages. The freeze lasted almost a month.

“Finally, it hit me that if one of us got hit by a bus tomorrow, I don’t want my final thought to be, ‘She supports George Bush,’ ” Ms. Langham said. They resumed contact, but have agreed not to discuss the administration and the war, or even forward each other humorous political e-mail messages.

With Iraq locked in seemingly endless violence and a contentious midterm election just weeks away, a similar silent treatment seems to be spreading across certain corners of society. People who once feistily shared their convictions about politics now report biting their tongues around — or even completely avoiding — friends and relatives who disagree, trying to avoid fights over the Bush administration and, specifically, the war.

The simple image of a “polarized nation,” with a great divide between entirely red and entirely blue states, was never quite accurate: Many metropolitan areas, in particular, support a mix of both parties, with Republicans and Democrats living and working peacefully, for the most part, side by side. Those people have always car-pooled, had play groups, and shared elevator rides and adjoining cubicles, often forming friendships through bonds that have nothing to do with politics.

But as the fissures that opened after the 2000 election have become more extreme over the last six years, the divisions are playing out in small and personal ways, influencing friendships, acquaintances and even family dynamics. In some cases, the divisions have caused painful rifts. In others, they have simply produced a wary quiet.

Many people said they are simply tired of debating the policies that have split the country so thoroughly. They know where they stand; they know where their friends, neighbors and colleagues stand. Rather than shift their views or even play along in a show of tolerance, many said they have opted for retreat and the safe harbor of friends who agree.

That instinct for self-selection has created a certain awkwardness in some environments, as people tread carefully on the subject of politics for fear of discovering that a neighbor is of another stripe. One result, said political experts, is that public discourse seems to be dimming, with people returning to the manners of an earlier time when discussing politics was considered rude rather than enlightening.

"Over 40 years ago, when I was a sorority girl at the University of Wisconsin, there were three things you didn’t talk about in rush, and those were religion, sex and politics,” said Charlene Bramson, a personal shopper in Chicago. “And then I went through 40 years of my life where those were dinner party conversations. And now I think there’s a lot of talk about politics, but you know who you’re talking to before you start to have the conversation. You are having the conversation with people you agree with, not people you disagree with."

Frank Luntz, a Republican pollster who conducts focus groups nationwide, agreed, saying, “In most parts of this country it is very difficult to have a civilized conversation between two people that fundamentally disagree.”..."

What do you think?

Have found recently that you had to pull back on political discussion just to keep on a civil standard with some of your friends? neighbors? relatives?

Have you had a friendship that has been injured because of politics?

I know that the Politics thread here can often be... outspoken and even rancorous.

Curious as to what you think.

Rob

Yes, there are certain people with whom I refuse to have a discussion regarding politics at all. This is to avoid any unpleasantries because they have their views and I have mine and we will never see eye to eye on it. But I'd put that number at eight people, since most everyone can be very civil and dispassionate and objective. Only a select number of Republican extremists are there and since I am more in the middle with my views, I am usually the one breaking up arguments between some of my more politically inclinded friends. Interetesting how that works.

Perhaps my experiences are similar to others', perhaps not.

I have an extended group of family and friends who always revelled (sp?) in political debates. We would spend entire weekends up at a ski house talking, discussing, debating (between cocktails and ski runs, of course). During the Clinton years, these debates were spirited and often heated, but we never lost our connections as family and friends.

Since the election of Bush, though, the political debate has ceased. We simply cannot be in the same room as a political conversation anymore -- there is a tendency for conversation to become so caustic that we dare not discuss politics.

Personally, I blame the 2000 election as the root of the problem -- Bush's rise to power was pre-ordained, blessed by the powers-that-be in the GOP who wanted to see Bush Sr. vindicated, Bush avoided most of the political screening that historically winnowed out inferior candidates. Gore was objectively the smarter and more prepared of the two, but in traditional Democrat style, Gore felt he could rise above the situation and that people would be wowed by his credentials (see Kerry, Dukakis, Mondale, Carter, Humphrey...). To see Gore beaten by a village idiot stuck in the throats of so many Democrats -- much like Clinton's victory of Bush I pained Republicans. The differernce, though, is that Republicans have a grudging respect for Clinton's political mastery, his oratory skill, his magnetism, his intellect. None of these things can be said of Bush. So on top of the election night debacle and the Supreme Court situation, Bush's win wrankled Democrats and liberals like little before.

On top of that, Bush has been ruling like he has so much political capital and has turned a national tragedy, 9/11, into a political sword against anyone who dares disagree. The unbridled pride, the overwhelming sense of confidence, the swagger, the tough talk. ON top of that, Democrats have been rendered totally powerless, so on top of that Bush swagger is the swagger and smugness of his supporters (though that has changed dramatically since Katrina, Harriet Myers, etc.) Rather than ruling on behalf of all Americans, Bush has made it plain that he is playing to the margins only. Clinton was accused of governing by polls, but at least he sought broad support among all Americans. Bush governs by polls, but only the polls that indicate support among his hardcore supporters.

So political talk stopped at our gatherings. The gatherings, themselves, have become less frequent. I think we all know there is some built in resentment over the past few years and we just want to avoid it all. I wish we could go back to the days when people can agree to disagree and mix up another batch of pina coladas.

That's my problem...I need to switch to pina coladas! Aquaman, well-put statement there. I avoid politics at relatives homes, especially those that live in central Indiana, where the whole 'Merica thing is alive and well. It does make me wonder...why can I figure these things out, yet my own flesh and blood is so blind to so many things going wrong? We have the same DNA, I imagine we must be close I.Q.-wise, none of us have visible learning disabilities, so what's up? I even have trouble with dear mother, and we share the same views. She feels I can be too strident at times and too loud...imagine that, me, strident and loud! Who would have guessed! Can I help it that the more right I am, the louder I get? Maybe it is a subconscience way to educate the masses. Maybe it's the vodka.

Rob,

Thanks for posting this article. I went out to the New York Times and printed the whole thing to a PDF file and I am sending it to my entire address book on AOL. I have found this article to really hit home. I really can't talk with my parents about politics because they are Republicans and once when I heard my Mom say how President Bush was doing such a fine job it just floored me.

My younger sister and I have agreed to disagree. She is a Republican and so is her husband. We got to the point that we decided we can no longer talk about politics either. She even told me once in an email to not send them anymore political emails because she was just deleting them anyway.

What hurts the most I guess is standing on the outside of being Republican (I voted for Regan twice... ) and realizing how much damage has been done by this administration. So much damage that it will take years to recover. What about the more than 3000 soldiers that lost their lives because of this administration's lies or "poor intelligence" as they put it. Those soldiers are never coming back. They are gone forever.

Right before the 2004 election, my dad started calling me and telling me why I need to vote Republican. I went home about two weeks before the election and my dad had all these printouts waiting for me about how a Democrat in the White House would be devestating (think of the worst right-wing dreck you can and you'll know what I was reading. Up to and including the Democrats causing more terrorist attaacks). Anyway, I finally put my foot down and told him I was voting Democrat and to leave me alone. So, we all know how that election ended and I was just willing to let it go.


Well, Thanksgiving rolls around and one of my uncles, for his own entertainment, gets my dad started on talking about the election results. When I chime in that "he should listen to less Rush Limbaugh", he got really angry and said "maybe you should stop talking to your liberal friends". Well, it was all downhill from there, ending with us having a shouting match in the kitchen in front of my entire family. After that night, my dad and I agreed not to talk politics anymore.

Which of course means that he gets to talk and I don't. Listening to him and a neighbor discuss how the gays are bringing down society was one of the highlights of my Christmas last year.


Things have become more civil between us recently and we've had some calm rational discussions about the president. Things will never change though, when people ask my sister what my family's religion is, she says "Republican". How else can you explain the signed picture of Bush my dad has in his office?

Illini

At least you can still talk to your father.

As a result of politics, and my late father's love of the extreme conservative position, even by Canadian Standards, it had a disastrous effect on our relationship.

I was 24, gay, living with the man I loved (and still do). I was on my own in Toronto, and had gone home for Christmas. (This was December 1979) Well, Christmas Eve supper was always Roast leg of lamb with all the trimmings. My father started the dinner by saying how he wished Trudeau wasn't PM, as he wanted a gov't that would lock up all of the "fags", and according to him, "if a few thousand of them die, well good for them".

Needless to say I wasn't out to my father, as he used to brag about firing gays when I lived at home.

Things went from bad to worse, and the last part of our conversation was him telling me, that "as long as I was living under his roof, eating his food, I'd do what he said, when he said, and how he said" (it all started about me saying no thank you to squash).

For me, it was the last straw. I put down my knife and fork, stood up, and told me, "old man, f**k YOU". I walked out, and didn't talk to anyone in my family until the fall of 1988.

As hard as it is to ignore the rants, sometimes going out for a walk helps as well. For me, the walk was a little longer than I planned.

But after we re-established links, we became good friends. But until the day he died, politics was verboten.

And no, I never came out to them. But Sept 7th of this year Wayne and I celebrated out 26th anniversery. So I guess I won the arguement.